Best first episode of all time?

Apr 14, 2023 5:21 PM

Offline

Jan 2021

79

its not one episode, its 4.
series with better first 4 episodes:
attack on titan
erased
rascal does not dream of bunny girl senpai
demon slayer
vinland saga
eighty six
death note
mushoku tensei
vivy
probably more ...
its a great "first" episode, but greatest? hell na.

Apr 14, 2023 8:12 PM

#52

Pillsbury_Uchiha

Offline

Dec 2020

1350

APTX-4869-SMD said:
its not one episode, its 4.
series with better first 4 episodes:
attack on titan
erased
rascal does not dream of bunny girl senpai
demon slayer
vinland saga
eighty six
death note
mushoku tensei
vivy
probably more ...
its a great "first" episode, but greatest? hell na.

i disagree with some of those but ok

Apr 14, 2023 8:14 PM

#53

Pillsbury_Uchiha

Offline

Dec 2020

1350

Mukche said:

Pillsbury_Uchiha said:
Is this the best first episode thats ever made been in fiction?
If not give examples

edit
Also, dont say its unfair because of the length
because you cant do anything about it

This is a good first episode only due to its length however I feel after episode 2 a lot of people will have mixed feelings of the show but overall it was a good choice to get it done in an hour long episode, cutting volume 1 or putting it into separate episodes wouldn’t have the same impact

i really like anime about the acting profession so ill be fine

Apr 14, 2023 8:27 PM

#54

Kyle_etc

Offline

Mar 2022

57

Probably not all time, but best of this decade so far easily

Apr 14, 2023 8:39 PM

#55

Fiava

Offline

Mar 2014

12

Far too many inconsistencies for this to be even close to best. Far many "mid" animes have better 1st episodes. We got a floating cancer soul for 4 years, kids that were constantly talking in front of the babysitter before acting divine, the babysitter not realizing these kids aren't divine after stabbing, doctor that doesn't know first aid, didn't even try to "find" his body, goes on the path of killing, somehow has a detective brain but not realizing who his sister is or slipping up in years being together, and more that I forgot cuz the episode was too riddled with poor writing to be remembered.

1 good first episode I do recommend is "Start Up" which was live action.

Apr 14, 2023 8:41 PM

#56

lostrellic

Offline

Apr 2023

6

noraqs99 said:
it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it

Am I completely misunderstanding you? Are you saying that Oshi No Ko, in its first episode, failed to explore every single aspect of the central theme of the entire show? Or are you talking about something else?

Apr 14, 2023 8:54 PM

#57

lostrellic

Offline

Apr 2023

6

Fiava said:
Far too many inconsistencies for this to be even close to best. Far many "mid" animes have better 1st episodes. We got a floating cancer soul for 4 years, kids that were constantly talking in front of the babysitter before acting divine, the babysitter not realizing these kids aren't divine after stabbing, doctor that doesn't know first aid, didn't even try to "find" his body, goes on the path of killing, somehow has a detective brain but not realizing who his sister is or slipping up in years being together, and more that I forgot cuz the episode was too riddled with poor writing to be remembered.

1 good first episode I do recommend is "Start Up" which was live action.

We have no idea how the reincarnation works, that's not bad writing. You believe that the four-year-old child had the proper equipment, the capability to use it (toddler body is different than adult body), and the mental stability, to perform first aid on his dying mother? Don't see how going on the path of killing is poor writing. They said that memories of their past lives make them feel sadness and how they don't want to talk about it, so obviously it's not something they're going to blabber on about at every point. He was keeping track of his body, but there was only so much that he could personally do, especially since no one else was able to find the body and it was far away.

Apr 14, 2023 9:00 PM

#58

Orion911

Offline

Mar 2021

11

how many anime have you seen so far?

Apr 14, 2023 9:10 PM

#59

Pillsbury_Uchiha

Offline

Dec 2020

1350

Orion911 said:
how many anime have you seen so far?

like 250 competed
but i have like 350 in total

Apr 14, 2023 9:15 PM

#60

dk107_

Offline

Jul 2021

1725

Nope the title for the best pilot episode in fiction belongs to AoT.

Apr 14, 2023 9:25 PM

#61

yg

Offline

Jul 2020

149

crazy glazing. Suits pilot was better

Apr 14, 2023 9:29 PM

#62

Abzy1239

Offline

Aug 2021

318

Cestlavie_ said:
Regardless of how the shows turned out I'll say the best are from
Akame ga Kill
The promised Neverland
AOT
Death Note
To your eternity
Erased
etc

for death note ep 2

Apr 14, 2023 9:36 PM

#63

thomashon

Offline

Jun 2021

3

definitely the best first episode for any show considering the animation, story, pacing and length. although this is about it being a “first episode” of a show, we shouldn’t expect the next episodes to surpass this one since they’ll be about 24 minutes each.

this episode truly was the definition of perfect when it comes to opening a series.

Apr 14, 2023 9:47 PM

#64

noraqs99

Offline

Jan 2022

40

lostrellic said:

noraqs99 said:
it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it

Am I completely misunderstanding you? Are you saying that Oshi No Ko, in its first episode, failed to explore every single aspect of the central theme of the entire show? Or are you talking about something else?

Perfect Blue is shorter than the first episode of Oshi no Ko and is far more indepth and careful about the Same themes as this was. If we are to look; we can see other, better works (such as Twin Peaks, or Evangelion) which establish the central themes in the first episode in a way that doesn't hammer you over the head and is satisfyingly indepth while still allowing expansion of the ideas over time. Oshi no Ko is completely empty beyond what it explicitly says.

Apr 14, 2023 9:50 PM

#65

noraqs99

Offline

Jan 2022

40

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:
No because it's bad. Or at least, technically proficient but a complete mess in the writing department. There are an infinite amount of shows with better premieres but if we go for "any medium" I'd go to Twin Peaks first; utterly haunting.

damn ironicly?

i wouldn't say its bad,
however its overrated to hell.
i see that you rated this a 4, I can see where the rage is coming from after seeing the huge echo chamber praising this as the second coming of christ.
however

the rating of 4 or lower should only be reserved to the truly abhorrent series like drinking BLEACH, re:shit, midjitsu kaisen, or my dumpster academia.
series that only have gotten high scores due to their high animation quality and nothing else even though the manga had shit writing.

oshi no ko's manga might be slightly overrated, but it would say it stands in its own right, so i can't completely say the animation carried it, unlike my re:shit or stuff like midjitsu kaisen with manga art uglier than ONEs from opm (which he does on purpose at this point)

4 is my "mediocre" rating.

I seeee
so you are one of those who uses 5 as the baseline eh?
I respect that but since 90% of people don't do it, some people get the wrong idea that you are saying its worse than it is.

anyhow, as an inspiring writer and some one who researches writing,
I always check to see what the source material is like and what THAT rating is before I see the anime,
because even though its possible for an anime to be much worse than its source material but skiping and altering things.

its almost never the case where an anime can be better than the source material. because unless you are only looking for saguka fight scenes like the old new grounds animations etc with no plot.

the baseline writing is whats important.

for example I remember when midjitsu kaisen first came out and only 30 chapters existed. this was like 6 or so years ago. and i remember seeing the manga with only a 6.6 score or something, and I read it, and it was extremely mediocre, both the dialogue and the plot was horrendous, it was like some fanfiction from watpad doing some edgy roll play, the blindfold guy just came out as extremely edgy or contrived, and gojo acts exactly like 90% of shounen protagonists at the time, the whole trio of characters is so overdone and all the uniforms powers and dynamics were not interesting also the art fucking sucked. for example when fujimoto drew nobura on his twitter it was hilarious because he completely mogged the original author Akutamis art of the same picture.

jjk literally was horrendous to the core, it was like mass produced story written by AI,
then the anime came, and all of a sudden the multi million dollar animation turned a mediocre story, into an also still mediocre story BUT NOW IT HAS FLASHY ANIMATIONS AND FIGHTS,
then everyone liked it. horrible writing and bad world building aside.

i havent read the manga but its the baseline writing i have an issue with. wrote this for letterboxd and the duscussion forum;

"A modernized spin on the themes of Perfect Blue, but watered down and given far less care and subtlety, wrapped in an Isekai story device and the shitty comedy (the person who wrote Kaguya-sama wrote this? unbelievable fall off) that often comes along with it - making it feel less prescient and ahead of its time and more regressive, clunky, and obvious. That being said, there is some scenes here that are incredibly well written for emotional affect and it provides the baseline for a gripping story. I am, however, left curious how it'll succeed considering the most interesting and thematically strong character seems to be out of the picture in the first episode.

The character designs and animation are gorgeous, that much is obvious. That aspect most obviously comes out in the flashy performance scenes, but there are quiet moments delivered with such strength too. The potential such things show leaves me evermore frustrated at its failures on a writing level. Having the technical skill to be Satoshi Kon does not make you Satoshi Kon - one must also have the intelligence to carefully weave complex, layered themes into your work, and the audacity to play with the conceptual limits of the medium as delivery method for an improved and visceral understanding of those themes as seen in Perfect Blue or Paprika."

if that gives you a better understanding of my issues. it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it, through the potential of the audiovisual medium. it's stupid and sloppy, failing to live up to the comparisons it so clearly wants with Perfect Blue.

curious have you read any of Ryōgo Narita's works?
he's kinda the opposite to many of these authors, where her focuses on the characters like a chess game that would line up together neatly for a checkmate, rather than having good technical design. he makes a delivery with what he's got.
for example I wouldn't call stuff from durarara or baccano well animated, or even the inspired yozayura quartet, but the way that the scenes are framed and the characters are introduced in a domino effect. where all the pieces unravel feels like story telling overcoming the lack of budget.

thats why I really like Narita's works. because he is able to make something interesting with even a low budget or short time frame, rather than having a massive premier than spans multiple episodes because the author can't find a way to condense it or catch some ones attention for long periods of times without flashy animations.

i havent! but ive been interested in Baccano for quite some time. thanks for the recommendation. ill get to it sooner

Apr 14, 2023 10:23 PM

#66

aeroduct

Offline

Oct 2022

39

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

I seeee
so you are one of those who uses 5 as the baseline eh?
I respect that but since 90% of people don't do it, some people get the wrong idea that you are saying its worse than it is.

anyhow, as an inspiring writer and some one who researches writing,
I always check to see what the source material is like and what THAT rating is before I see the anime,
because even though its possible for an anime to be much worse than its source material but skiping and altering things.

its almost never the case where an anime can be better than the source material. because unless you are only looking for saguka fight scenes like the old new grounds animations etc with no plot.

the baseline writing is whats important.

for example I remember when midjitsu kaisen first came out and only 30 chapters existed. this was like 6 or so years ago. and i remember seeing the manga with only a 6.6 score or something, and I read it, and it was extremely mediocre, both the dialogue and the plot was horrendous, it was like some fanfiction from watpad doing some edgy roll play, the blindfold guy just came out as extremely edgy or contrived, and gojo acts exactly like 90% of shounen protagonists at the time, the whole trio of characters is so overdone and all the uniforms powers and dynamics were not interesting also the art fucking sucked. for example when fujimoto drew nobura on his twitter it was hilarious because he completely mogged the original author Akutamis art of the same picture.

jjk literally was horrendous to the core, it was like mass produced story written by AI,
then the anime came, and all of a sudden the multi million dollar animation turned a mediocre story, into an also still mediocre story BUT NOW IT HAS FLASHY ANIMATIONS AND FIGHTS,
then everyone liked it. horrible writing and bad world building aside.

i havent read the manga but its the baseline writing i have an issue with. wrote this for letterboxd and the duscussion forum;

"A modernized spin on the themes of Perfect Blue, but watered down and given far less care and subtlety, wrapped in an Isekai story device and the shitty comedy (the person who wrote Kaguya-sama wrote this? unbelievable fall off) that often comes along with it - making it feel less prescient and ahead of its time and more regressive, clunky, and obvious. That being said, there is some scenes here that are incredibly well written for emotional affect and it provides the baseline for a gripping story. I am, however, left curious how it'll succeed considering the most interesting and thematically strong character seems to be out of the picture in the first episode.

The character designs and animation are gorgeous, that much is obvious. That aspect most obviously comes out in the flashy performance scenes, but there are quiet moments delivered with such strength too. The potential such things show leaves me evermore frustrated at its failures on a writing level. Having the technical skill to be Satoshi Kon does not make you Satoshi Kon - one must also have the intelligence to carefully weave complex, layered themes into your work, and the audacity to play with the conceptual limits of the medium as delivery method for an improved and visceral understanding of those themes as seen in Perfect Blue or Paprika."

if that gives you a better understanding of my issues. it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it, through the potential of the audiovisual medium. it's stupid and sloppy, failing to live up to the comparisons it so clearly wants with Perfect Blue.

“I haven’t read the manga”
You know, you’re entitled to your own opinion. If you dislike it, that’s fine. However, to make all these assumptions off of just the first episode is quite rash and reductive. I mean, we haven’t even gotten into the actual meat of the story yet as it was just a prologue, so the true purpose of the story hasn't even been revealed yet. I personally really enjoyed Perfect Blue, but I don’t think it’s an apt comparison, as multiple writers can tackle the same themes in different manners, as has been the case throughout time. Additionally, there's more themes than just the ones focused on the idol industry present in the first episode. Like, say... A broken girl trying to love again, what it takes to move past trauma, etc. The rebirth element is not without purpose either. Both of the main characters have to jump over hurdles or have an objective that would otherwise not be there (Ruby has to move past her past trauma (which I'm certain will play a role in many episodes to come), Aqua has a goal that wouldn't otherwise be there (avenging Ai)).

aeroductApr 14, 2023 11:35 PM

Apr 14, 2023 10:53 PM

#67

aeroduct

Offline

Oct 2022

39

Fiava said:
Far too many inconsistencies for this to be even close to best. Far many "mid" animes have better 1st episodes. We got a floating cancer soul for 4 years, kids that were constantly talking in front of the babysitter before acting divine, the babysitter not realizing these kids aren't divine after stabbing, doctor that doesn't know first aid, didn't even try to "find" his body, goes on the path of killing, somehow has a detective brain but not realizing who his sister is or slipping up in years being together, and more that I forgot cuz the episode was too riddled with poor writing to be remembered.

1 good first episode I do recommend is "Start Up" which was live action.

"floating cancer soul for 4 years"
Nobody knows how reincarnation works. After all, reincarnation hasn't been proven and is just a work of fiction. No concrete rules have cemented themselves, so why should every story follow the same rules, then? This point doesn't logically make sense.

"didn't even try to "find" his body"
How is a kid going to tell his mother "Oh hey, mom, I want to travel to the countryside to find my old body." The hospital at the beginning of the show is located in Miyazaki prefecture, which is about a FIFTEEN hour drive from Tokyo, where they're living, or about 1060 km. Even if he had the funds, his mother would most likely go after him to ensure his safety as he's practically a baby and her son, no less. How was he going to explain it? If he lied, he wouldn't get the funds either, as most of Ai's money is logically in the bank, and what pocket money she had, she would probably take with her. Was he supposed to panhandle in the street for some cash? Assuming he gets there and comes back in an instant, that's THIRTY hours. There's no way he could lie to Ai and get back in time, not to mention the potential dangers of a BABY travelling on their lonesome.

"babysitter not realizing these kids aren't divine after stabbing"
Well, you never know. Maybe she did realize it, but already had grown attached to them. After all, she wasn't spouting anything about divine intervention at the end of the episode, she just declared her love for the kids.

"goes on the path of killing"
Well, I mean, it's been established that he really cares for Ai, almost to the point of obsession. Of course he's going to want revenge. On top of that, she was his mother, and after being reborn, he must have harboured some familial love for Ai.

"somehow has a detective brain but doesn't realize who his sister is"
I mean, it doesn't help that she's constantly lying about her age, and telling him to screw off whenever he asks about her past life. Also, she died four years ago, so if he had followed your line of logic of a "floating cancer soul for 4 years" not being able to be reincarnated that he probably learned from fiction, of course the last thought he's gonna have is that she's been reincarnated. How's he supposed to figure it out from her behaviour, either? Many people in the world have similar behaviour to the point where their personalities are almost indistinguishable. Obsesing over an idol is hardly anything that would ever even remotely hint to who a person was.

"doctor that doesn't know first aid"
Dude, a stab to the abdominal aorta requires OPEN surgery. No amount of first aid is going to help mediate the damage. Real life isn't a video game where first aid magically mends all wounds. Even if first aid was able to save her, he doesn't even have the tools necessary in the first place, and a baby's motor functions aren't as developed biologically, meaning that no matter how good of a doctor he was in the previous life, he would not have the dexterity to pull such medical procedures off.

It feels like you just skimmed through the episode and didn't pay any attention nor did you apply any logical thinking. If that’s a wrong assumption, I apologize, but that’s certainly what it’s seeming like.

aeroductApr 15, 2023 12:28 AM

Apr 14, 2023 11:16 PM

#68

lostrellic

Offline

Apr 2023

6

noraqs99 said:

lostrellic said:

Am I completely misunderstanding you? Are you saying that Oshi No Ko, in its first episode, failed to explore every single aspect of the central theme of the entire show? Or are you talking about something else?

Perfect Blue is shorter than the first episode of Oshi no Ko and is far more indepth and careful about the Same themes as this was. If we are to look; we can see other, better works (such as Twin Peaks, or Evangelion) which establish the central themes in the first episode in a way that doesn't hammer you over the head and is satisfyingly indepth while still allowing expansion of the ideas over time. Oshi no Ko is completely empty beyond what it explicitly says.

Ah, that's a more understandable take. Thanks for clarifying. I still don't agree with your take as I think things were done in a satisfying manner while also establishing what the rest of the show will cover, but I get what you're going for

Apr 14, 2023 11:32 PM

#69

Staxrex

Offline

Sep 2022

88

Best first episode.. I think I would say
Demon Slayer
Akame ga kill
Erased

Apr 15, 2023 12:08 AM

#70

noraqs99

Offline

Jan 2022

40

RetroNitez said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:
No because it's bad. Or at least, technically proficient but a complete mess in the writing department. There are an infinite amount of shows with better premieres but if we go for "any medium" I'd go to Twin Peaks first; utterly haunting.

damn ironicly?

i wouldn't say its bad,
however its overrated to hell.
i see that you rated this a 4, I can see where the rage is coming from after seeing the huge echo chamber praising this as the second coming of christ.
however

the rating of 4 or lower should only be reserved to the truly abhorrent series like drinking BLEACH, re:shit, midjitsu kaisen, or my dumpster academia.
series that only have gotten high scores due to their high animation quality and nothing else even though the manga had shit writing.

oshi no ko's manga might be slightly overrated, but it would say it stands in its own right, so i can't completely say the animation carried it, unlike my re:shit or stuff like midjitsu kaisen with manga art uglier than ONEs from opm (which he does on purpose at this point)

4 is my "mediocre" rating.

I seeee
so you are one of those who uses 5 as the baseline eh?
I respect that but since 90% of people don't do it, some people get the wrong idea that you are saying its worse than it is.

anyhow, as an inspiring writer and some one who researches writing,
I always check to see what the source material is like and what THAT rating is before I see the anime,
because even though its possible for an anime to be much worse than its source material but skiping and altering things.

its almost never the case where an anime can be better than the source material. because unless you are only looking for saguka fight scenes like the old new grounds animations etc with no plot.

the baseline writing is whats important.

for example I remember when midjitsu kaisen first came out and only 30 chapters existed. this was like 6 or so years ago. and i remember seeing the manga with only a 6.6 score or something, and I read it, and it was extremely mediocre, both the dialogue and the plot was horrendous, it was like some fanfiction from watpad doing some edgy roll play, the blindfold guy just came out as extremely edgy or contrived, and gojo acts exactly like 90% of shounen protagonists at the time, the whole trio of characters is so overdone and all the uniforms powers and dynamics were not interesting also the art fucking sucked. for example when fujimoto drew nobura on his twitter it was hilarious because he completely mogged the original author Akutamis art of the same picture.

jjk literally was horrendous to the core, it was like mass produced story written by AI,
then the anime came, and all of a sudden the multi million dollar animation turned a mediocre story, into an also still mediocre story BUT NOW IT HAS FLASHY ANIMATIONS AND FIGHTS,
then everyone liked it. horrible writing and bad world building aside.

i havent read the manga but its the baseline writing i have an issue with. wrote this for letterboxd and the duscussion forum;

"A modernized spin on the themes of Perfect Blue, but watered down and given far less care and subtlety, wrapped in an Isekai story device and the shitty comedy (the person who wrote Kaguya-sama wrote this? unbelievable fall off) that often comes along with it - making it feel less prescient and ahead of its time and more regressive, clunky, and obvious. That being said, there is some scenes here that are incredibly well written for emotional affect and it provides the baseline for a gripping story. I am, however, left curious how it'll succeed considering the most interesting and thematically strong character seems to be out of the picture in the first episode.

The character designs and animation are gorgeous, that much is obvious. That aspect most obviously comes out in the flashy performance scenes, but there are quiet moments delivered with such strength too. The potential such things show leaves me evermore frustrated at its failures on a writing level. Having the technical skill to be Satoshi Kon does not make you Satoshi Kon - one must also have the intelligence to carefully weave complex, layered themes into your work, and the audacity to play with the conceptual limits of the medium as delivery method for an improved and visceral understanding of those themes as seen in Perfect Blue or Paprika."

if that gives you a better understanding of my issues. it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it, through the potential of the audiovisual medium. it's stupid and sloppy, failing to live up to the comparisons it so clearly wants with Perfect Blue.

“I haven’t read the manga”
You know, you’re entitled to your own opinion. If you dislike it, that’s fine. However, to make all these assumptions off of just the first episode is quite rash and reductive. I mean, we haven’t even gotten into the actual meat of the story yet as it was just a prologue, so the true purpose of the story hasn't even been revealed yet. I personally really enjoyed Perfect Blue, but I don’t think it’s an apt comparison, as multiple writers can tackle the same themes in different manners, as has been the case throughout time. Additionally, there's more themes than just the ones focused on the idol industry present in the first episode. Like, say... A broken girl trying to love again, what it takes to move past trauma, etc. The rebirth element is not without purpose either. Both of the main characters have to jump over hurdles or have an objective that would otherwise not be there (Ruby has to move past her past trauma (which I'm certain will play a role in many episodes to come), Aqua has a goal that wouldn't otherwise be there (avenging Ai)).

I mean. We're literally on a thread about the first episode. Of course I'll talk my assumptions based off the first episode. It is totally possible it moves forward in a more satisfying manner - but the first episode wasn't promising. And to speak of the additional themes; I wasn't just talking of idol industry / culture in my comparisons to Perfect Blue; it too has themes of sexual violence and trauma as much as Oshi no Ko episode 1 does.

Apr 15, 2023 12:15 AM

#71

Opticflash

Offline

Aug 2018

2418

6/10 which is slightly above for me. Episode could have been better in some aspects.

Apr 15, 2023 12:20 AM

#72

aeroduct

Offline

Oct 2022

39

noraqs99 said:

RetroNitez said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

noraqs99 said:
No because it's bad. Or at least, technically proficient but a complete mess in the writing department. There are an infinite amount of shows with better premieres but if we go for "any medium" I'd go to Twin Peaks first; utterly haunting.

damn ironicly?

i wouldn't say its bad,
however its overrated to hell.
i see that you rated this a 4, I can see where the rage is coming from after seeing the huge echo chamber praising this as the second coming of christ.
however

the rating of 4 or lower should only be reserved to the truly abhorrent series like drinking BLEACH, re:shit, midjitsu kaisen, or my dumpster academia.
series that only have gotten high scores due to their high animation quality and nothing else even though the manga had shit writing.

oshi no ko's manga might be slightly overrated, but it would say it stands in its own right, so i can't completely say the animation carried it, unlike my re:shit or stuff like midjitsu kaisen with manga art uglier than ONEs from opm (which he does on purpose at this point)

4 is my "mediocre" rating.

I seeee
so you are one of those who uses 5 as the baseline eh?
I respect that but since 90% of people don't do it, some people get the wrong idea that you are saying its worse than it is.

anyhow, as an inspiring writer and some one who researches writing,
I always check to see what the source material is like and what THAT rating is before I see the anime,
because even though its possible for an anime to be much worse than its source material but skiping and altering things.

its almost never the case where an anime can be better than the source material. because unless you are only looking for saguka fight scenes like the old new grounds animations etc with no plot.

the baseline writing is whats important.

for example I remember when midjitsu kaisen first came out and only 30 chapters existed. this was like 6 or so years ago. and i remember seeing the manga with only a 6.6 score or something, and I read it, and it was extremely mediocre, both the dialogue and the plot was horrendous, it was like some fanfiction from watpad doing some edgy roll play, the blindfold guy just came out as extremely edgy or contrived, and gojo acts exactly like 90% of shounen protagonists at the time, the whole trio of characters is so overdone and all the uniforms powers and dynamics were not interesting also the art fucking sucked. for example when fujimoto drew nobura on his twitter it was hilarious because he completely mogged the original author Akutamis art of the same picture.

jjk literally was horrendous to the core, it was like mass produced story written by AI,
then the anime came, and all of a sudden the multi million dollar animation turned a mediocre story, into an also still mediocre story BUT NOW IT HAS FLASHY ANIMATIONS AND FIGHTS,
then everyone liked it. horrible writing and bad world building aside.

i havent read the manga but its the baseline writing i have an issue with. wrote this for letterboxd and the duscussion forum;

"A modernized spin on the themes of Perfect Blue, but watered down and given far less care and subtlety, wrapped in an Isekai story device and the shitty comedy (the person who wrote Kaguya-sama wrote this? unbelievable fall off) that often comes along with it - making it feel less prescient and ahead of its time and more regressive, clunky, and obvious. That being said, there is some scenes here that are incredibly well written for emotional affect and it provides the baseline for a gripping story. I am, however, left curious how it'll succeed considering the most interesting and thematically strong character seems to be out of the picture in the first episode.

The character designs and animation are gorgeous, that much is obvious. That aspect most obviously comes out in the flashy performance scenes, but there are quiet moments delivered with such strength too. The potential such things show leaves me evermore frustrated at its failures on a writing level. Having the technical skill to be Satoshi Kon does not make you Satoshi Kon - one must also have the intelligence to carefully weave complex, layered themes into your work, and the audacity to play with the conceptual limits of the medium as delivery method for an improved and visceral understanding of those themes as seen in Perfect Blue or Paprika."

if that gives you a better understanding of my issues. it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it, through the potential of the audiovisual medium. it's stupid and sloppy, failing to live up to the comparisons it so clearly wants with Perfect Blue.

“I haven’t read the manga”
You know, you’re entitled to your own opinion. If you dislike it, that’s fine. However, to make all these assumptions off of just the first episode is quite rash and reductive. I mean, we haven’t even gotten into the actual meat of the story yet as it was just a prologue, so the true purpose of the story hasn't even been revealed yet. I personally really enjoyed Perfect Blue, but I don’t think it’s an apt comparison, as multiple writers can tackle the same themes in different manners, as has been the case throughout time. Additionally, there's more themes than just the ones focused on the idol industry present in the first episode. Like, say... A broken girl trying to love again, what it takes to move past trauma, etc. The rebirth element is not without purpose either. Both of the main characters have to jump over hurdles or have an objective that would otherwise not be there (Ruby has to move past her past trauma (which I'm certain will play a role in many episodes to come), Aqua has a goal that wouldn't otherwise be there (avenging Ai)).

I mean. We're literally on a thread about the first episode. Of course I'll talk my assumptions based off the first episode. It is totally possible it moves forward in a more satisfying manner - but the first episode wasn't promising. And to speak of the additional themes; I wasn't just talking of idol industry / culture in my comparisons to Perfect Blue; it too has themes of sexual violence and trauma as much as Oshi no Ko episode 1 does.

Well, you got me there. I agree with a lot of the points you’re making. Personally, I thought the first episode was amazing, but to each their own.

Apr 15, 2023 7:49 AM

#73

aloop86

Offline

Mar 2023

18

not even close bruh

Apr 15, 2023 7:54 AM

#74

ZXEAN

Offline

Sep 2020

4885

Attack on Titan and Death Note have better first episode.

Apr 15, 2023 7:57 AM

#75

Maruseru93

Offline

Jun 2020

506

Oshi no ko got nothing on re zero First episode

Apr 15, 2023 8:22 AM

#76

k0rvus

Offline

Jan 2016

127

Cestlavie_ said:
Regardless of how the shows turned out I'll say the best are from
Akame ga Kill
The promised Neverland
AOT
Death Note
To your eternity
Erased
etc

Akame ga Kill, To your eternity, and Erased have no business at all being on this list. Especially Akame ga Kill; shock value does not equate to being good. To your eternity's first episode was really just a pretty shallow attempt at being a tear-jerker. It felt incredibly boring and soulless to me, personally.

Apr 15, 2023 11:53 AM

#77

Cestlavie_

Offline

Jul 2021

901

k0rvus said:

Cestlavie_ said:
Regardless of how the shows turned out I'll say the best are from
Akame ga Kill
The promised Neverland
AOT
Death Note
To your eternity
Erased
etc

Akame ga Kill, To your eternity, and Erased have no business at all being on this list. Especially Akame ga Kill; shock value does not equate to being good. To your eternity's first episode was really just a pretty shallow attempt at being a tear-jerker. It felt incredibly boring and soulless to me, personally.

Akame ga kill wasn't only shock value though, it revealed how cruel the world is ,and completely subverted our expectations on who really are the heroes and who were the villains. agree to disagree for the rest

Apr 15, 2023 7:41 PM

#78

susisa_tagumpay

Offline

Feb 2012

26

It's pointless to even give a best first episode for a fiction because it will vary from person to person. We all have different preferences after all.

Apr 15, 2023 8:37 PM

#79

hasbeendeadalrea

Offline

Mar 2022

7

The people who are saying this is a masterpiece are probably those who rated spy x family 10 after watching 1st episode of it.

Apr 15, 2023 9:08 PM

#80

GONASKU

Offline

Jan 2021

5

Yeah, ofcourse this question will be asked.
dude this is not even a usual episode,this is more like a movie so definitely no.

Apr 15, 2023 9:19 PM

#81

ptm

Offline

May 2014

57

Dignity said:

Apolygon2 said:

if not for that, stuff like steins;gate, the promised neverland, attack on titan or mars red would easily beat it.

Mars Red, you my friend have great taste. That episode 1 was orgasmic, unfortunate the rest of the anime wasn't on par but it was still enjoyable

Nice to see Mars Red mentioned. I really love the ED.

Apr 15, 2023 9:25 PM

#82

morenosendpie

Offline

Mar 2018

151

I think so, for now, though I might have forgot what the truly best is.

» Snowflake - Shihoko Hirata «
0:51 ─〇───── 4:54 ⇄ ◃◃ ⅠⅠ ▹▹ ↻
Traveler, Please enjoy your stay

Apr 15, 2023 9:27 PM

#83

ptm

Offline

May 2014

57

Apolygon2 said:
yes, but actually no

I would say that it technically is the best, but it's not exactly a fair comparison, this was an hour and a half long

if not for that, stuff like steins;gate, the promised neverland, attack on titan or mars red would easily beat it.

I completely agree. The investment made in a prologue like this is quite new.
I can already see the pure rage of a lot of people tho. "How can this anime beat my X anime in the ranking?" The hype train is here, but the hate train is taking off too.

Apr 15, 2023 9:34 PM

#84

geogasket

Offline

Mar 2023

2

noraqs99 said:

Neostorm-X said:

I seeee
so you are one of those who uses 5 as the baseline eh?
I respect that but since 90% of people don't do it, some people get the wrong idea that you are saying its worse than it is.

anyhow, as an inspiring writer and some one who researches writing,
I always check to see what the source material is like and what THAT rating is before I see the anime,
because even though its possible for an anime to be much worse than its source material but skiping and altering things.

its almost never the case where an anime can be better than the source material. because unless you are only looking for saguka fight scenes like the old new grounds animations etc with no plot.

the baseline writing is whats important.

for example I remember when midjitsu kaisen first came out and only 30 chapters existed. this was like 6 or so years ago. and i remember seeing the manga with only a 6.6 score or something, and I read it, and it was extremely mediocre, both the dialogue and the plot was horrendous, it was like some fanfiction from watpad doing some edgy roll play, the blindfold guy just came out as extremely edgy or contrived, and gojo acts exactly like 90% of shounen protagonists at the time, the whole trio of characters is so overdone and all the uniforms powers and dynamics were not interesting also the art fucking sucked. for example when fujimoto drew nobura on his twitter it was hilarious because he completely mogged the original author Akutamis art of the same picture.

jjk literally was horrendous to the core, it was like mass produced story written by AI,
then the anime came, and all of a sudden the multi million dollar animation turned a mediocre story, into an also still mediocre story BUT NOW IT HAS FLASHY ANIMATIONS AND FIGHTS,
then everyone liked it. horrible writing and bad world building aside.

i havent read the manga but its the baseline writing i have an issue with. wrote this for letterboxd and the duscussion forum;

"A modernized spin on the themes of Perfect Blue, but watered down and given far less care and subtlety, wrapped in an Isekai story device and the shitty comedy (the person who wrote Kaguya-sama wrote this? unbelievable fall off) that often comes along with it - making it feel less prescient and ahead of its time and more regressive, clunky, and obvious. That being said, there is some scenes here that are incredibly well written for emotional affect and it provides the baseline for a gripping story. I am, however, left curious how it'll succeed considering the most interesting and thematically strong character seems to be out of the picture in the first episode.

The character designs and animation are gorgeous, that much is obvious. That aspect most obviously comes out in the flashy performance scenes, but there are quiet moments delivered with such strength too. The potential such things show leaves me evermore frustrated at its failures on a writing level. Having the technical skill to be Satoshi Kon does not make you Satoshi Kon - one must also have the intelligence to carefully weave complex, layered themes into your work, and the audacity to play with the conceptual limits of the medium as delivery method for an improved and visceral understanding of those themes as seen in Perfect Blue or Paprika."

if that gives you a better understanding of my issues. it fails to dive into its themes, only unsubtly gesturing at "idol culture bad" instead of exploring why, how it perpetuates, and how we can get rid of it, through the potential of the audiovisual medium. it's stupid and sloppy, failing to live up to the comparisons it so clearly wants with Perfect Blue.

Perfect Blue was a finished product on release; Oshi no Ko is turning out to be around 15 volumes. The purpose of the entire first volume (what has been adapted so far) *wasn't* the full picture, not even close. Don't play all your cards at once, and they weren't.

Apr 15, 2023 10:52 PM

#85

Nerojiin

Offline

Feb 2021

2

This first episode was like watching a movie, a full story arc in 1 hour, and the best part is knowing that we'll be getting more.

Apr 19, 2023 10:02 AM

#86

Alpha_Druid

Offline

Mar 2018

808

The writing was too substandard to be considered the best first episode. Maybe some will feel this way because the themes of the show are blatantly made explicit with characters and dialogue readily being used for this effect. The anime calls too much attention to the themes that the characters and plot events merely feel like tools to point at them. Along with the runtime equivalent to 4 standard anime episodes or nearly a feature length movie, which allowed the creators to cram the whole prologue arc, it would then be disingenuous to call this the best first episode while comparing it with stories which only had a fraction of time for their first episodes.

Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Ricky16 - May 17, 2023	870	by Tsukimariko »» 3 hours ago
Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Usopp8000 - Mar 27, 2023	2676	by Tsukimariko »» 9 hours ago
Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Yuyuichi - Jun 28, 2023	679	by mowtolol »» May 2, 12:04 PM
Poll: » Best girl war oshi no ko Praveen05 - Jun 14, 2023	4	by aurora_yuuki »» May 1, 7:36 AM
Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Stark700 - Apr 19, 2023	856	by wallus81 »» Apr 25, 9:13 PM

Best first episode of all time?

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Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Poll: » "Oshi no Ko" Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Poll: » Best girl war oshi no ko

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