Plot Holes? What exactly happened between.... (movie spoilers)

kizuyomi said:
Homura became a witch in her own soul gem.... after she came out of the gem.. Madoka herself came to extract the witch power because that's what Madoka does and that's all she had been doing ever since she became an abstract being of hope.


I believe this was Kyubey's experiment on Homura's soul gem. Although they succeeded to in making Modoka descent, they fail to factor in humans irrationality and feelings which caused Homura transformation into the devil.

Aloisssss said:

You said pretty much everything, but I'll just add that there IS a story taking place between the 12th episode and the movie, a manga called "Wraith Arc" which is completely canon (althought unfortunalely doesn't have anime adaptation) and explains when did Homura obtain the power to rewrite the memories of others, why she now uses a bow like Madoka, why did Kyubey try to manipulate her and shows us the wraiths in action in the city. :')
Althought the movie can be understood without reading it. It's mostly if anyone is curious about the wraiths.

Aloisssss said:

You said pretty much everything, but I'll just add that there IS a story taking place between the 12th episode and the movie, a manga called "Wraith Arc" which is completely canon (althought unfortunalely doesn't have anime adaptation) and explains when did Homura obtain the power to rewrite the memories of others, why she now uses a bow like Madoka, why did Kyubey try to manipulate her and shows us the wraiths in action in the city. :')
Althought the movie can be understood without reading it. It's mostly if anyone is curious about the wraiths.

kizuyomi said:

I will prolly look into this manga. I am assuming the anime producers didn't like it much or felt like it was unnecessary to be added in the anime and movies canon.

I have never heard of Homura rewriting memories. All she had been doing was rewriting a timeline for lord knows how many times. As for Kyubey manipulating Homura, it was to descent Madoka. They wanted to observe the newly made god.

Homura using bow? wasn't she using guns and grenades the entire movie? I haven't a clue what you are on about.

Try to re-watch the show...... you might have misunderstood some parts.

Rob7 said:
About the manga Wraith Arc.

Nevermind, i could read it all by now. It was going to solve all my questions about the lack of continuity... then it throw everything away in the end lol.

Some of these questions remain a mistery:

- Was the city destroyed by Wraiths?

(yes, but actually, no, no explanation about the destroyed world where the QB experiment took place).




- What was the context in the begining of the QB experiment? Why? The world was doomed?

(Not revealed on screem. The world was doomed, but got saved, then the destruction we see is not explained)

- How Homura got sealed/caught by the Kyuubeis?

(Ok, it seems the all the QB waited for the moment when Himura was close to follow the inavoidable new curse of Magic Girls: get erased and her soul "collected" by Madoka-God. The manga made this cicle very clear).

- What made Homura's gem become so corrupted? If was not the QB experiment, Homura was going to vanish?

(Not explained, but implied to be normal fights with wraiths following inavoidable cicle of death of Magic Girls. So the QB prevented Homura to reunite with Madoka in the Cosmos)




Still i wish i could have read this manga-only arc before to watch the movie. Damn

kizuyomi said:

I will prolly look into this manga. I am assuming the anime producers didn't like it much or felt like it was unnecessary to be added in the anime and movies canon.

I have never heard of Homura rewriting memories. All she had been doing was rewriting a timeline for lord knows how many times. As for Kyubey manipulating Homura, it was to descent Madoka. They wanted to observe the newly made god.

Homura using bow? wasn't she using guns and grenades the entire movie? I haven't a clue what you are on about.

Try to re-watch the show...... you might have misunderstood some parts.

Aloisssss said:

"Try to rewatch the show" actually you might be the one who didn't get everything when first seeing it, but honestly if you didn't know of the manga taking place in between it makes sense.

"I've never heard of Homura rewriting memories" well her witch rewrote the memories of every girl (well not Sayaka/Nagisa, but herself and Kyoko/Mami at least) inside of her barrier. And she shouldn't be able to do that unless it was an ability that Homura actually had. Which she does in the manga taking place between.
Homura also rewrites Sayaka memories after creating a new universe, althought I guess you could argue that once she became the devil, she might be able to do everything she wants.

And someone answered for me but once Madoka stopped to exist, her wish of saving Madoka couldn't exist either, so she lost both her time related magic and her shield/guns (althought, as a witch, she can use everything power she ever had. Just like Kyoko's witch, Ophelia, who can use illusion while Kyoko herself has lost this power when she lost her family because of the trauma.) In the new world, she used the same bow as Madoka instead as we can see in the end of ep 12 // in the scene where Madoka and herself destroys the witch barrier // in the scene where the Law of Cycle comes to Homura body in the real world, and obviously in Wraith Arc. I could explain the reason for all of this a bit better, but I wouldn't want to spoil you Wraith's Arc.

And as the author of the post said, the manga was released after the movie, so I guess they didn't adapt it because it would confuse people more having an anime taking place in between but being released after. But it's honestly a shame, and same thing goes for the first volume of The Different Story which tells us about the past of Kyoko/Mami when they used to be friends.

kizuyomi said:

Homura devil can do anything as she is the devil that has shown to rewrite reality. I clearly do not know about Homura rewriting memories as I have not read the wraith arc. It could be theorized that a universe or multiverse without the existence of Madoka has caused Homura to gain such an ability. The magic source is kyubey because they are the ones that create magical girls.

This is alright but what about the plot holes which was original subject of this very argument. Also, if the Wraiths existed because of Madoka's non-existence, then their existence wouldn't make sense in the movie. Also most of the scene took place in the soul gem and in the newly made universe.

Aloisssss said:

"It could be theorised" it's not a theory since the manga is canon.

"The source of magic is Kyubey" I don't know to what part of my message this is an answer to, but Kyubey doesn't have powers other than telepathy, the barrier-thing and to grant wishes. Any magic of any magical girl might affect it and in the Tart Magica manga when a magical girl became more powerful than Kyubey, Kyubey couldn't do anything else than counting on a random magical girl to become more powerful than the antagonist and kill her.

The wraith exist because of Madoka absence yes, and it's the case in Rebellion too ? They live within the world with the Wraiths as stated by Mami/Homura, however inside of the barrier since Madoka now exist Nightmares took their place, and since the memory of everyone was re-written they forgot about Wraiths until Mami VS Homura.
As for the plot holes everything was answered before anyway

Rob7 said:
Between the 12th episode of the series and the Kyuubey experiment?


Remembering the end of the series:
- Witches was non-existent. No more. Even the QB had no ideia about it.
- Madoka was no more a singular form, already a God, but not a personified one. Intangible.


And what we have in the movie:

- Homura became an old-style witch? The "gem isolation" BS is not a good explanation, because no matter where, what made witches exist ceased to be. The new curse of Mahous was the vanishment. Homura becoming witch was pure Plot convenience?

- "God" Madoka became phisical and came to rescue Homura. Whaat? This means she could do that anytime? Even in the end of the anime series? So why Homura was suffering? She could invite the God Madoka to drink tea anytime. Wtf.

And WTF happened with the city in the real world? WTF happened to the Wraths?

All this before the movie starts, but after the end of the series. The impression is that a season was cut between one and another.

Rob7 said:
So:

"Homura became an old-style witch? The "gem isolation" BS is not a good explanation, because no matter where, what made witches exist ceased to be. The new curse of Mahous was the vanishment. Homura becoming witch was pure Plot convenience?"

- The Magic Girls are STILL able to become witches, but the only diference is that Madoka-God acts to prevent it. Her wish didn't erased the witches from existence, just make herself a tool for doing it. And QB sealing of Homura's gem prevented it.

"God" Madoka became phisical and came to rescue Homura. Whaat? This means she could do that anytime? Even in the end of the anime series? So why Homura was suffering? She could invite the God Madoka to drink tea anytime. Wtf."


- That Madoka manifestation was only not physical, but just in the context of Homura becoming a witch out of the gem and Madoka coming to... erasing her instead?


Still,there are more questions:




- Was the city destroyed by Wraiths?

- What was the context in the begining of the QB experiment? Why? The world was doomed?

- How Homura got sealed/caught by the Kyuubeis?

- What made Homura's gem become so corrupted? If was not the QB experiment, Homura was going to vanish?



Spoil me to hell, i wish i could see these explanations before watching the movie.



The movie failed to present A LOT of important details of basic plot continuity.

Btw, the manga Wraith Arc was released after the movie. Maybe it was made to fix that.