Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
New
Jul 15, 2021 11:20 PM
#1
Offline
Jul 2020
25
What exactly is Benten character is?? Who is in her sane mind commit something like this and then go on living.
GilsaberJul 17, 2021 4:46 AM
Jul 16, 2021 2:16 AM
#2

Offline
Nov 2019
5189
Anything to raise is also something to 'eat'. The only matter here is well, morality, or fake morality.
Help! I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody. Help! You know I need someone. Helpppppp!

Jul 16, 2021 4:02 AM
#3
Offline
Dec 2019
384
Yeah it's never really explained or justified this season and is the sole reason that I dont like this show. It seems like the author is trying to pass it off as quirky or metaphoric but it really does not make any sense. What's more, the show frames Benten as this special little beauty with some internal conflict and this aggravates me because no, you're just an asshole.
Jul 17, 2021 4:39 AM
#4
Offline
Jul 2020
25
Recynon said:
Yeah it's never really explained or justified this season and is the sole reason that I dont like this show. It seems like the author is trying to pass it off as quirky or metaphoric but it really does not make any sense. What's more, the show frames Benten as this special little beauty with some internal conflict and this aggravates me because no, you're just an asshole.


Yeah, this is the major problem of the show and also she knowingly eats his father if she doesn't know about it and then got to know about it later then it's somewhat justifiable but still ...
Jul 17, 2021 4:41 AM
#5
Offline
Jul 2020
25
SgtBaitMan said:
Anything to raise is also something to 'eat'. The only matter here is well, morality, or fake morality.


That's what make the show less relatable and realistic. This type of behaviour isn't human like.
Jul 17, 2021 10:53 PM
#6

Offline
Nov 2019
5189
Gilsaber said:
SgtBaitMan said:
Anything to raise is also something to 'eat'. The only matter here is well, morality, or fake morality.


That's what make the show less relatable and realistic. This type of behaviour isn't human like.


Well, let be honest. That's also a dark side of human. We never know when it will be out of the light. For example, I never expected another Adolf H. from AoT, but that was also the dark side of a homo sapiens.
Help! I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody. Help! You know I need someone. Helpppppp!

Aug 4, 2021 8:53 AM
#7

Offline
May 2020
1885
I mean what drives some humans to kill or abuse people that they know ?

It's not like knowing the person beforehand will somehow stop you from doing terrible things to them if you want to.
Aug 6, 2021 8:58 PM
#8
Offline
Jul 2020
25
TitanInsane said:
I mean what drives some humans to kill or abuse people that they know ?

It's not like knowing the person beforehand will somehow stop you from doing terrible things to them if you want to.


It's basic morality that is taught to humans since childhood but you are right as well if someone willingly wants to harm somebody then there's no stopping.
Aug 13, 2021 5:59 AM
#9

Offline
Sep 2020
219
Gilsaber said:
SgtBaitMan said:
Anything to raise is also something to 'eat'. The only matter here is well, morality, or fake morality.


That's what make the show less relatable and realistic. This type of behaviour isn't human like.


Saying that it "isn't human like" is just plain ridiculous. Cannibalism may be taboo in our societies/cultures but that doesn't make it non-human like behavior. For example there are tribes that don't view cannibalism as something immoral, or another example would be how a tribe in Africa doesn't view breasts as sexual, but rather ankles. Just because their cultural ethics vary from ours doesn't make theirs any less human or ours any more correct. The point is we shouldn't force our moral expectations on other societies, nor believe that ours is the 'correct' way to be human. Its very silly to force your society's morals on a FICTIONAL world.
Aug 14, 2021 7:28 PM
Offline
Dec 2019
384
SsilverD said:
Gilsaber said:


That's what make the show less relatable and realistic. This type of behaviour isn't human like.


Saying that it "isn't human like" is just plain ridiculous. Cannibalism may be taboo in our societies/cultures but that doesn't make it non-human like behavior. For example there are tribes that don't view cannibalism as something immoral, or another example would be how a tribe in Africa doesn't view breasts as sexual, but rather ankles. Just because their cultural ethics vary from ours doesn't make theirs any less human or ours any more correct. The point is we shouldn't force our moral expectations on other societies, nor believe that ours is the 'correct' way to be human. Its very silly to force your society's morals on a FICTIONAL world.


Except this woman Benten, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, has been raised in a modern Japanese society, which, as far as I know, has no proclivity towards cannibalism. I'm sure Gilsaber wouldn't have said it wasn't humanlike if Benten was actually from one of the societies you talk about.

Also concerning the morals, no, it is absolutely not OK to eat a creature of comparable sentience to that of a human being, especially when there's no need to do so. If you're so inclined towards moral relativism I guess you won't have a problem when someone decides to eat YOU on a whim.

It is absolutely acceptable and in fact imperative to apply morality to a fictional world. Since you don't understand why on first glance, I'd have to write an essay explaining the relationship between creative output and real life.
RecynonAug 14, 2021 7:32 PM
Aug 15, 2021 1:03 AM

Offline
Sep 2020
219
He was saying that it's just a definite "non-human like behavior", my main point was against that. There are risks to cannibalism course but there is no intrinsic or innate knowledge that cannibalism is something against humanity. The stigmatization against cannibalism is something developed by culture and that's why we can see the variety of stances between cultures.

You tell me it's "absolutely not ok" as if it were an objective wrong like the other guy. You're basically just failing to see past your own societies forced moral expectations and then you yourself, forcing it onto the world and fictional worlds; as an absolute truth.

You say "eat YOU" as if it's supposed to be some big shocker. I personally do not care what happens to my body after death, including whether someone wants to eat my body or throw me into a ditch. I see nothing wrong with that, and feel that it should be up to the person in regards to what happens to their body once they pass on.

I think that you should always be viewing a fictional medium like say a book, anime, or game without bias. Sure you can apply your morals to what's happening and say "Oh god that was horrible" or "Wow he's such a nice guy", but my point of how you shouldn't force your expectations onto it still stands. If we never bother to be open minded and instead force our expectations onto a fictional world over the creators own intentions, then we will end up with a very authoritative, censored, cut and dry, fictional world. The laws, morals, phsyics, ethics, and everything else is up to the creator. We can make our interpretations on it and react to it, but again, it is simply very silly to force our expectations onto a fictional world, as if our way was the definite correct way, and that any other way would be "wrong" or "unrealistic".

I am not referring to what happens in this particular show, as I've never watched it. Everything I've said pertains to what Gilsaber wrote about how something like cannibalism is just objectively "wrong" or "non-human". Saying that in a very broad vacuum is rediculous.
Aug 15, 2021 12:24 PM
Offline
Dec 2019
384
SsilverD said:
He was saying that it's just a definite "non-human like behavior", my main point was against that. There are risks to cannibalism course but there is no intrinsic or innate knowledge that cannibalism is something against humanity. The stigmatization against cannibalism is something developed by culture and that's why we can see the variety of stances between cultures.

You tell me it's "absolutely not ok" as if it were an objective wrong like the other guy. You're basically just failing to see past your own societies forced moral expectations and then you yourself, forcing it onto the world and fictional worlds; as an absolute truth.

You say "eat YOU" as if it's supposed to be some big shocker. I personally do not care what happens to my body after death, including whether someone wants to eat my body or throw me into a ditch. I see nothing wrong with that, and feel that it should be up to the person in regards to what happens to their body once they pass on.

I think that you should always be viewing a fictional medium like say a book, anime, or game without bias. Sure you can apply your morals to what's happening and say "Oh god that was horrible" or "Wow he's such a nice guy", but my point of how you shouldn't force your expectations onto it still stands. If we never bother to be open minded and instead force our expectations onto a fictional world over the creators own intentions, then we will end up with a very authoritative, censored, cut and dry, fictional world. The laws, morals, phsyics, ethics, and everything else is up to the creator. We can make our interpretations on it and react to it, but again, it is simply very silly to force our expectations onto a fictional world, as if our way was the definite correct way, and that any other way would be "wrong" or "unrealistic".

I am not referring to what happens in this particular show, as I've never watched it. Everything I've said pertains to what Gilsaber wrote about how something like cannibalism is just objectively "wrong" or "non-human". Saying that in a very broad vacuum is rediculous.


It is my mistake for assuming cannibalism involved murder. I was under the assumption that you had seen the show and know that in order to eat someone, Benten had to kill that person for the sole purpose of eating that person. Do you care that someone murders you because they want to eat you? Or just murders you period for no good reason? Eating a dead body because you happen to find it dead and eating someone after killing them just to eat them is different. I don't know much about the societies you talk about, but from what I've read in Robinson Crusoe, cannibalism in many societies is a ritual in which they deliberately kill someone (most likely an enemy of war) and then cooked them.

The creator's intentions need to be held to standards. If they're promoting something that is wrong, then they deserve all criticism. There's a difference between setting up a world with a certain morality for the purpose of portraying how it works, like say, setting up a society of racists, and actually promoting the morality of that world, like saying racism is OK. And while it's silly to say that racism is unrealistic, racism is definitely wrong and there's no arguing against that. This show is condoning Benten's behavior in its portrayal of her just as it is condoning the old man's sexual harassment of her.

Furthermore, the creator's world must make sense with respect to itself, but it doesn't because Benten's behavior is so jarring and it never does the work to set up a society that makes the viewers understand why cannibalism is acceptable. "Realistic" means that the world and how it develops makes sense, not that it literally copies something from real life.

Gilsaber in his initial post was referring to Benten and THIS show, which is not in a broad vacuum. His assertion that this type of behavior isn't humanlike, while not very precise in his words, is still valid, as I've already explained concerning Benten as a woman raised in a modern Japanese society and given little backstory.



Aug 15, 2021 1:29 PM

Offline
Sep 2020
219
I personally do not agree with murdering someone to eat them, or say raising humans to be slaughtered. Nor do I agree with murder in general, but if there were such a society where said things are a part of their normal function. I would still not believe my society to be any more human than theirs.

When it comes to a creator's work of fiction, it really shouldn't be held to any standard except the law. Even then there are exceptions that pertain specifically to art. I think its perfectly fine for a show to condone heinous things like murder or racism. Feel free to criticize it of course, but censoring and disallowing this would not be okay. It's a fictional world and the consumer should understand that fundamentally; our moral expectations may not apply. This goes both ways.

I interpreted what he said very generally, as just saying it isn't human-like behavior is plain ridiculous. But even in a modern Japanese society there are absolutely murderous/psychopathic cannibals, they and their actions are still very much human. It seems like a very weird criticism of the show, but obviously I can't say as of now. Murderous psychopaths don't have to make sense, as in life, they often do not.

I will watch the show soon to get a better understanding of his criticism.
Aug 15, 2021 2:11 PM
Offline
Dec 2019
384
SsilverD said:
I personally do not agree with murdering someone to eat them, or say raising humans to be slaughtered. Nor do I agree with murder in general, but if there were such a society where said things are a part of their normal function. I would still not believe my society to be any more human than theirs.

When it comes to a creator's work of fiction, it really shouldn't be held to any standard except the law. Even then there are exceptions that pertain specifically to art. I think its perfectly fine for a show to condone heinous things like murder or racism. Feel free to criticize it of course, but censoring and disallowing this would not be okay. It's a fictional world and the consumer should understand that fundamentally; our moral expectations may not apply. This goes both ways.

I interpreted what he said very generally, as just saying it isn't human-like behavior is plain ridiculous. But even in a modern Japanese society there are absolutely murderous/psychopathic cannibals, they and their actions are still very much human. It seems like a very weird criticism of the show, but obviously I can't say as of now. Murderous psychopaths don't have to make sense, as in life, they often do not.

I will watch the show soon to get a better understanding of his criticism.


It would certainly be more HUMANE than theirs. I don't get people who have no moral standards.

By "perfectly fine" I'm assuming you mean it's OK to do it under freedom of speech, which is obvious because in the US there are still white supremicist rallies. What is not fine is to react to such things with indifference. While I wouldn't keep them from saying such things, it is imperative to vehemently object to what they say, instead of saying, "That's their morality", which is what I'm doing right now. But you were saying before (the latest post you said feel free to criticize) that this criticism is unwarranted because that's their opinion, man. No, this criticism is 100% justified.
As I said, they don't set up Benten's backstory. They don't portray her as a psychopath. They portray her as this dainty little damaged creature worthy of sympathy. And furthermore depending on the focus of the story, if the character isn't a evil for the sake of having an antagonist, a story can and should flesh out the psychology of a murderous psychopath. Their logic doesn't make sense to the viewer but it should make sense to them as a sort of internal logic. No one does something for no reason. Which, of course, is also what I tried to tell you about worldbuilding. The world doesn't have to function like the real world but its internal rules should be consistent and reasonable. You can not brush EVERYTHING under the table just because it's fiction and fiction is "make-believe". I'm OK with this show having talking tanuki's that can transform into anything they want. I'm not OK with the motivations and reactions of the characters to cannibalism.

Plus, by your logic, since we can't judge other societies by our own logic, it was fine for Nazi Germany to kill all those people right?
RecynonAug 15, 2021 3:10 PM
Jul 27, 2023 8:53 PM

Offline
Feb 2017
2244
It kinda feels like a class metaphor to me. The humans on top of the food chain are the upper/ruling class and the tanuki are like peasants. Even if they coexist and form bonds the higher status one still exploits or "eats" the other. It could mean other things too but that's how it kinda comes off to me. Or maybe it isn't supposed to mean anything and is just a strange fantasy power dynamic. Either way I kinda like it, feels sorta surreal and adds to the fantastical elements of the show.
JKKHJul 27, 2023 8:58 PM

More topics from this board

Poll: » Uchouten Kazoku Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 )

Stark700 - Sep 15, 2013

83 by blinddig »»
Mar 8, 1:54 AM

Poll: » Do you think the series will get a s3?

Vamp_Lord - Oct 28, 2023

4 by InNeedOfAName »»
Oct 30, 2023 6:30 AM

Poll: » Uchouten Kazoku Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )

Stark700 - Aug 4, 2013

95 by i-loathe-sasuke »»
Sep 10, 2023 6:26 AM

Poll: » Uchouten Kazoku Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )

Stark700 - Jul 28, 2013

104 by i-loathe-sasuke »»
Sep 10, 2023 5:25 AM

Poll: » Uchouten Kazoku Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )

Stark700 - Jul 21, 2013

105 by i-loathe-sasuke »»
Sep 9, 2023 4:27 PM
It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login