SPOILERS "Only one worldline" paradox

Dec 29, 2020 11:17 PM

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May 2020

16

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

So as I understood it, only one worldline is active at a time, and whenever a D-Mail is sent, the world rebuilds itself accordingly. If there is anything wrong with this assumption, please let me know.

From where do you gather that only one world line is active atm? Every world is active and when a d-mail is sent to the past that then creates an alternate world line. So, the world without d-mail also goes on while the new world line with the d-mail also goes on. By further applying this, the Okabe that has attained stein's gate world line won't be affected by the other world line's Okabe.

This is obvious...

Dec 29, 2020 11:28 PM

#3

ybullz

Offline

May 2020

16

Moonchild_07 said:

Non-aggressive said:

This is obvious...

Excuse my lack of understanding but are you perhaps stating that my explanation was inadequate? Obvious it is,yes.

no, OP should have figured that out on his own, you shouldn't have had to explain that.

Dec 30, 2020 12:45 AM

#4

agenT1337

Offline

Oct 2018

5

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

So as I understood it, only one worldline is active at a time, and whenever a D-Mail is sent, the world rebuilds itself accordingly. If there is anything wrong with this assumption, please let me know.

From where do you gather that only one world line is active atm? Every world is active and when a d-mail is sent to the past that then creates an alternate world line. So, the world without d-mail also goes on while the new world line with the d-mail also goes on. By further applying this, the Okabe that has attained stein's gate world line won't be affected by the other world line's Okabe.

I gather that from Steins Gate Episode 03: Parallel Process Paranoia, as John Titor, aka Suzuha explained: "Let's go back in time and kill somebody called A [...] When a worldline shifts, people’s memories are changed accordingly, so memories in which A continues to exist are nullified". Meaning that in any given moment, only one world line exists.

This does however not mean, that there aren't parallel worldlines, there are potential parallel worlds, yes but it's not like parallel worlds in the sense that you jump from one world line to another, what actually happens when sending a D-Mail, or travelling back in time is that the whole worldline shifts into another potential world line.

Seriously I shouldn't be explaining this, there are other sources that prove that point in Steins Gate and Steins Gate 0. Also, if it were merely multiple worldlines all parallel to each other with jumping from one to another than saving Kurisu or Mayuri wouldn't be that important since in another world line one would live anyway but again that is not the case.

Other sources:
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-other-timelines-in-Steins-Gate#:~:text=In%20the%20Steins%20Gate%20universe,exist%2C%20but%20they%20are%20inactive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/steinsgate/comments/ahxsl3/one_active_world_line_at_a_time/

https://i.imgur.com/KleThC3.png

agenT1337Dec 30, 2020 12:52 AM

Dec 30, 2020 1:10 AM

#5

agenT1337

Offline

Oct 2018

5

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

I gather that from Steins Gate Episode 03: Parallel Process Paranoia, as John Titor, aka Suzuha explained: "Let's go back in time and kill somebody called A [...] When a worldline shifts, people’s memories are changed accordingly, so memories in which A continues to exist are nullified". Meaning that in any given moment, only one world line exists.

This does however not mean, that there aren't parallel worldlines, there are potential parallel worlds, yes but it's not like parallel worlds in the sense that you jump from one world line to another, what actually happens when sending a D-Mail, or travelling back in time is that the whole worldline shifts into another potential world line.

Seriously I shouldn't be explaining this, there are other sources that prove that point in Steins Gate and Steins Gate 0. Also, if it were merely multiple worldlines all parallel to each other with jumping from one to another than saving Kurisu or Mayuri wouldn't be that important since in another world line one would live anyway but again that is not the case.

Other sources:
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-other-timelines-in-Steins-Gate#:~:text=In%20the%20Steins%20Gate%20universe,exist%2C%20but%20they%20are%20inactive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/steinsgate/comments/ahxsl3/one_active_world_line_at_a_time/

https://i.imgur.com/KleThC3.png

Dude, that just means that everyone's memories are altered in that specific worldline. Don't you remember taht in the movie (believing that you've watched it, okarin temporarily went to another world line where mayuri died?).
I don't get your "saving kurisu or mayuri point". In one world line Alpha which consists of countless worldlines itself kurisu lives and mayuri dies. Okarin has to cross the 1% barrier to reach the Beta worldline (might've got alpha and beta confused) where kurisu dies. Isn't that the whole point that okarin wants a wordline where both live? The CURRENT okarin, the one who gets success because he was helped by the one who failed. It is important because he achieves that. Why would he care about the other okarins?

I'll read the link you mentioned later and hopefully come up with an adept reply.

Sorry but check the sources before you start arguing please I think you're not quite up to date. As I just mentioned, it's explained in the show and the VN.

There are countless worlines yes but only one is active, check the sources please or else this whole discussion is pointless.

Dec 30, 2020 4:01 AM

#6

agenT1337

Offline

Oct 2018

5

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

Moonchild_07 said:

agenT1337 said:

So as I understood it, only one worldline is active at a time, and whenever a D-Mail is sent, the world rebuilds itself accordingly. If there is anything wrong with this assumption, please let me know.

From where do you gather that only one world line is active atm? Every world is active and when a d-mail is sent to the past that then creates an alternate world line. So, the world without d-mail also goes on while the new world line with the d-mail also goes on. By further applying this, the Okabe that has attained stein's gate world line won't be affected by the other world line's Okabe.

I gather that from Steins Gate Episode 03: Parallel Process Paranoia, as John Titor, aka Suzuha explained: "Let's go back in time and kill somebody called A [...] When a worldline shifts, people’s memories are changed accordingly, so memories in which A continues to exist are nullified". Meaning that in any given moment, only one world line exists.

This does however not mean, that there aren't parallel worldlines, there are potential parallel worlds, yes but it's not like parallel worlds in the sense that you jump from one world line to another, what actually happens when sending a D-Mail, or travelling back in time is that the whole worldline shifts into another potential world line.

Seriously I shouldn't be explaining this, there are other sources that prove that point in Steins Gate and Steins Gate 0. Also, if it were merely multiple worldlines all parallel to each other with jumping from one to another than saving Kurisu or Mayuri wouldn't be that important since in another world line one would live anyway but again that is not the case.

Other sources:
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-the-other-timelines-in-Steins-Gate#:~:text=In%20the%20Steins%20Gate%20universe,exist%2C%20but%20they%20are%20inactive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/steinsgate/comments/ahxsl3/one_active_world_line_at_a_time/

https://i.imgur.com/KleThC3.png

Dude, that just means that everyone's memories are altered in that specific worldline. Don't you remember taht in the movie (believing that you've watched it, okarin temporarily went to another world line where mayuri died?).
I don't get your "saving kurisu or mayuri point". In one world line Alpha which consists of countless worldlines itself kurisu lives and mayuri dies. Okarin has to cross the 1% barrier to reach the Beta worldline (might've got alpha and beta confused) where kurisu dies. Isn't that the whole point that okarin wants a wordline where both live? The CURRENT okarin, the one who gets success because he was helped by the one who failed. It is important because he achieves that. Why would he care about the other okarins?

I'll read the link you mentioned later and hopefully come up with an adept reply.

Sorry but check the sources before you start arguing please I think you're not quite up to date. As I just mentioned, it's explained in the show and the VN.

There are countless worlines yes but only one is active, check the sources please or else this whole discussion is pointless.

I haven't read the source material, just watched the anime, just to make it clear. But I find the "only one world line active" inherently wrong because we see two okabes in different worldlines. If only one wl were to be active then why would the okabe of beta wl go to save mayuri and suzuha when his worldline itself would get erased?

If we DO follow the theory that you suggest then the answer you seek is simple, isn't it? Only one world line is active. The present day okabe is in stein's gate wl so don't all wl turn into "mere possibilities". Why would he be affected by what's going on in other world lines, in this case his past self who is in caught in a limbo between beta and alpha ?
If you think that past okabe changes the wl for future okabe then the okabe in beta wl before saving kurisu would also immediately go back into alpha? because there must be another past self that has just changed the wl when they sent the first d-mail. OR you could perhaps interpret it this way that the SG okabe has followed a certain route so as long as the past okabe also goes through the same route, the past okabe's wl changing won't affect the future okabe's wl

And I visited the links but even there people have dividing opinions and there ain't no concrete source. This is the last I'll post because I don't think I've anymore information/views to share. Again, I can very well be wrong so *hopefully someone clears your doubts*. And seriously dude, "not quite upto date"?
I think the anime has left it upon viewers really to decide which theory they believe in.

The last link where a screenshot can be seen from the VN is proof enough actually, but VN aside I think the show tells the same actually. In Episode 3 it is established, that when wl change, all memories are changed accordingly. This would not be needed if Okabe would merely jump from one wl to another wl. What memories would have to change for all the humans then in this wl? None since they existed already and Okabe mereley jumped from one to annother, this detail in Episode 3 really supports the Idea of only one worldline being active, but there's more actually. A further example is that if what you say were to be true, therefore there are parallel wl that are all active at the same time, then by reaching Steins Gate Okabe merely gets into a wl where he can live peacefully without WW3 and withour SERN taking over while keeping all his friends (which ofcourse is what he seeks), but this would also mean that there are millions of other world lines where the world goes to shit. With only one worldline ever being active, he not only saves his friends but also the world (which he didn't necessarily wanted to to be fair, but still). There are other moments that further support the idea of only one wl being active, like for example Okabe sacrificing Kurisu to save Mayuri (the moment he undid all D-Mails and went from Alpha back to Beta) if what you proposed were to be true, it wouldn't really be a sacrifice since Kurisu keeps leaving in the current wl (Okabe would still be sad ofcourse since in Beta he won't have her but it's still not the same as Kurisu not being alive at all). Also in the Episode where Okabe and Kurisu say there final goodbyes to eachother, in the scene where Okabe is alone with Kurisu in the lab (before they kissed) Kurisu tries to make Okabes mood better by suggesting that maybe she won't die in this worldline when Okabes shifts wl, (which sounds like it supports our idea but hear me out) this actually supports my belief even further, because their current assumtion seem to be that every wl changes destroy the previous ones, or else Kurisus remark would be obvious and not worth mentioning. Also the whole thing with all the people remembering things from other time lines in dreams or blurry memories make more since with one active timeline, since we were always shown memories of worldlines that Okabe went into (or brought to existens), if however there were always milliions of parallel world lines, everyone would have hazy memories and dreams of all possible situations (which they might do but the show very clearly showed and emphasized that the dreams and hazy memories were from wl that were once experienced by Okabe).

If that's still not enough in the VN the screenshot I send as mentioned in the beginning is ofcourse proof enough, but there is more. This quote from Suzuha:
To quote from the VN, Suzuha: "The world's structure was clarified in 2036. It's not the many-worlds interpretation."
S: "The world is made of world lines and attractor fields."

Source: https://steins-gate.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Zeldakasumi/World_Line_Theory,_Divergence,_Loops,_and_Kurisu%27s_Deaths_and_Salvation

I've actually searched many posts about simmilar topics, and yes some are people having some divided opinions but for the most part the community agrees that only one world line is active at any given time.

No need for a reply, I just wanted to establish and strengthen the way I think it works, someone else may try to explain my initial problem now, if an explanation exists that is. And yes ofcourse the Anime has left it up to the viewers for interpretation, which I am not blaming (I rated S;G 10/10) I am merely trying to understand the mechanics and am curious how good they hold up if examined more cloesly, where I think it fails (which wouldn't be bothersome at all btw)

Dec 30, 2020 4:29 AM

#7

SciADV_Maniac

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May 2016

1359

Moonchild_07 said:

From where do you gather that only one world line is active atm? Every world is active and when a d-mail is sent to the past that then creates an alternate world line. So, the world without d-mail also goes on while the new world line with the d-mail also goes on. By further applying this, the Okabe that has attained stein's gate world line won't be affected by the other world line's Okabe.

It's an ultimate FACT, that only 1 worldline is active at any given time. It is explicitely stated in the VNs (the source materials), not just by Suzuha, but by the authors themselves in the tips section: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/304184264310652928/441002968431591426/unknown.png

(this is a screenshot from the VN)

In the anime it wasn't explicitely stated, but as I recall, it was kinda explained.

Also, if more worldlines are active simoultaneosly in the way you thought, then Okabe's Reading Steiner ability doesn't make any sense. If there are parallel worldlines, why Okabe can only observe only 1 worldline? This is just completely illogical.

Now, back to OP's question:

agenT1337 said:
So I've just rewatched Steins;Gate but some things of how the time travelling system works still bothers me and I'm wondering if these things can be explained, so there will be SPOILERS for anyone who hasn't seen Steins Gate.

So as I understood it, only one worldline is active at a time, and whenever a D-Mail is sent, the world rebuilds itself accordingly. If there is anything wrong with this assumption, please let me know.

So, in Episode 24, the one Okabe that travels back twice with Suzuha and ultimately deceives the world, had to deceive his past self so that he would experience everything he has experienced so that the loop stays. The problem I have is that the past Okabe will change worldline to alpha immediately after seeing fake Kurisu dead. Thus, Okabe in Steins Gate world line (and everybody else) will move to alpha too. And then eventually again to Beta and so on.

El. Psy. Congroo.

Alpha Attractor Field won't re-activate again. Okabe travels back before the deceived Okabe could send the D-Mail, which means the worldline deactivates before he could send that D-Mail.

This is the complete chronology of the last few worldlines:

Worldline 1:
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0)
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu - > Worldline 2

Worldline 2:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, then fails to save Kurisu, he goes back to the future - > Worldline 3

Worldline 3:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, then fails to save Kurisu, he goes back to the future
- Okabe_2 see a dead Kurisu in a pool of blood, sends a D-Mail. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- Nakabachi steals the papers and flees.
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0)
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- August 21st, 18:00: Okabe_1 and Suzuha arrives back from the failed attempt. Okabe_1 watch the video
- August 21st, 18:15: Okabe_1 and Sizuha goes back again to save Kurisu - > Worldline 4

Worldline 4:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, know with the knowledge of Operation Skuld. He picks the metal Upa, saves Kurisu, the goes back to the future - > Worldline 5

Worldline 5:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, know with the knowledge of Operation Skuld. He picks the metal Upa, saves Kurisu, the goes back to the future
- Okabe_2 see an alive Kurisu in a pool of blood, sends a D-Mail. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- Nakabachi steals the papers and flees.
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail. As he knows, Kurisu is dead.
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0). As she knows, Kurisu is dead.
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- August 21st, 17:55: The wounded Okabe_1 and Suzuha arrives back from the successful attempt. The papers burn between 17:55 and 18:00 (when the other Okabe_1 and Suzuha would arrive back). In the moment the papers burn, the worldline changes to Steins Gate, Suzuha disappears - > Steins Gate Worldline

Also, it is *Kongroo, not Congroo :)

SciADV_ManiacDec 30, 2020 4:35 AM

-

Dec 30, 2020 5:36 AM

#8

SciADV_Maniac

Offline

May 2016

1359

Moonchild_07 said:

"once that video is sent then that future Okabe along with the trapped Suzuha and Mayushii would also cease to exist because their WL would cease to be. This is similar to how Suzuha ceased to exist when they saved Kurisu. They only exist as long as their WL exists. So by default he would overwrite himself in the SG WL.

No, Suzuha and Mayushii won't cease to exist. The video D-Mail is sent to July 28th, which means there is no change at all before July 28th. Only the events after July 28th can change, this is just simple logic.

Suzuha's disappearence in the end considered as a plothole by most of the fandom. She shouldn't disappear. Her disappearance can be explained with stretchin though. The most accepted explanation is that she used the time machine to travel to an other time in the past, to not interfere.

Moonchild_07 said:
So basically there was no need to save the trapped Suzuha and Mayushii for the very action of sending the videos would save them from ever being trapped and their WL from ever being active."

That is right, there was no need to save them, even if they don't disappear from BC18000, it has nothing to do with what will happen to them in Steins Gate worldline in the 2010s.

However, take into account the following:
- Okabe can think that the video might not work, and in that case, he can still save Mayuri by going for her.
- Okabe also promised Kagari that he will bring her back
- Okabe wants to avoid being present when the worldline shifts to Steins Gate. The shift should happen in 2036, when Suzuha travels back to 2010 to help Okabe. If Okabe is present in 2036, then his Reading Steiner activates, transfering him to 2036 in Steins Gate worldline. This would mean that he has no memories of the Steins Gate worldline between 2010 and 2036. A 26-year-long amnesia... That would be very bad, and probably he wants to avoid that. So he travels back to BC18000, sends Suzuha and Mayuri back to 2025, and... he probably dies there.

Moonchild_07 said:
There's also this dream okabe has at the start about mayushi telling him she has been searching for him for so long.

Dreams are faint memories from previously active worldlines. This is dream is also a faint memory from a previous Alpha worldline, where Okabe was sent back 70 million years into the past by SERN, and Mayuri came to rescue him. This was in a behind the scenes book for the VN.

I'm not really sure why did you bring this up for this topic.

Moonchild_07 said:
Also, in the movie, there is a scene where Okabe briefly travels back to Alpha wl where the okabe of that timeline chose to sacrifice Mayuri and then went off-grid. That.. shouldn't be possible, right?

The movie is not canon. It fundamentally breaks the time travel rules which were established.

Moonchild_07 said:
As for the reading Steiner; I kind of don't get what you mean. The okabe Rintaro that we are following remembers the previous world line when he enters the next one. What's illogical about that?

No, no, no... Reading Steiner is not about "remembering to previous worldline". Reading Steiner transfers his consciousness to the new worldline. If worldlines simoultaneously exist, this makes no sense.

Let's take that worldlines are simoultaneosly existing:

If we are following an Okabe, who sends a D-Mail, nothing should happen in this case. Why? Because this just created a new worldline, but didn't erase or de-activate this one. Which means if we are following only one Okabe, we should still following the one who sent the D-Mail.

Also, if worldlines are simoultaneously existing, the terms "previous" and "next" worldlines make no sense at all. This only make sense if the worldlines are de-activating when a new one created.

-

Dec 30, 2020 5:51 AM

#9

SciADV_Maniac

Offline

May 2016

1359

Moonchild_07 said:

I think in original season one wl theory is used but in the sequels it has been given freedom of imagination.

Only the movie broke that rule. And its story wasn't even written by the same people who wrote the original's story

SciADV_ManiacDec 30, 2020 5:55 AM

-

Dec 30, 2020 5:59 AM

#10

SciADV_Maniac

Offline

May 2016

1359

Moonchild_07 said:

SheevPalpatine said:

No, Suzuha and Mayushii won't cease to exist. The video D-Mail is sent to July 28th, which means there is no change at all before July 28th. Only the events after July 28th can change, this is just simple logic.

Suzuha's disappearence in the end considered as a plothole by most of the fandom. She shouldn't disappear. Her disappearance can be explained with stretchin though. The most accepted explanation is that she used the time machine to travel to an other time in the past, to not interfere.

That is right, there was no need to save them, even if they don't disappear from BC18000, it has nothing to do with what will happen to them in Steins Gate worldline in the 2010s.

However, take into account the following:
- Okabe can think that the video might not work, and in that case, he can still save Mayuri by going for her.
- Okabe also promised Kagari that he will bring her back
- Okabe wants to avoid being present when the worldline shifts to Steins Gate. The shift should happen in 2036, when Suzuha travels back to 2010 to help Okabe. If Okabe is present in 2036, then his Reading Steiner activates, transfering him to 2036 in Steins Gate worldline. This would mean that he has no memories of the Steins Gate worldline between 2010 and 2036. A 26-year-long amnesia... That would be very bad, and probably he wants to avoid that. So he travels back to BC18000, sends Suzuha and Mayuri back to 2025, and... he probably dies there.

Dreams are faint memories from previously active worldlines. This is dream is also a faint memory from a previous Alpha worldline, where Okabe was sent back 70 million years into the past by SERN, and Mayuri came to rescue him. This was in a behind the scenes book for the VN.

I'm not really sure why did you bring this up for this topic.

The movie is not canon. It fundamentally breaks the time travel rules which were established.

No, no, no... Reading Steiner is not about "remembering to previous worldline". Reading Steiner transfers his consciousness to the new worldline. If worldlines simoultaneously exist, this makes no sense.

Let's take that worldlines are simoultaneosly existing:

If we are following an Okabe, who sends a D-Mail, nothing should happen in this case. Why? Because this just created a new worldline, but didn't erase or de-activate this one. Which means if we are following only one Okabe, we should still following the one who sent the D-Mail.

Also, if worldlines are simoultaneously existing, the terms "previous" and "next" worldlines make no sense at all. This only make sense if the worldlines are de-activating when a new one created.

Oh, now I understand it. So, did mayushii go back? I thought she'd rather stay with okarin in the past but then there's kagari too ig. I brought up the dream one cuz I sort of didn't understand it.
For the reading Steiner I meant like in one wl he doesn't eat an apple &in the other one he eats it. But when he goes into the other one, he remembers that he hadn't ate it in the previous world. Does this make sense or am I being stupid?

Yes, from his point of view that is how it looks like. But this is because his consciousness from the previous worldline overwrites his consciousness on the resulting worldline.

-

Dec 30, 2020 5:37 PM

#11

agenT1337

Offline

Oct 2018

5

SheevPalpatine said:

Moonchild_07 said:

From where do you gather that only one world line is active atm? Every world is active and when a d-mail is sent to the past that then creates an alternate world line. So, the world without d-mail also goes on while the new world line with the d-mail also goes on. By further applying this, the Okabe that has attained stein's gate world line won't be affected by the other world line's Okabe.

It's an ultimate FACT, that only 1 worldline is active at any given time. It is explicitely stated in the VNs (the source materials), not just by Suzuha, but by the authors themselves in the tips section: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/304184264310652928/441002968431591426/unknown.png

(this is a screenshot from the VN)

In the anime it wasn't explicitely stated, but as I recall, it was kinda explained.

Also, if more worldlines are active simoultaneosly in the way you thought, then Okabe's Reading Steiner ability doesn't make any sense. If there are parallel worldlines, why Okabe can only observe only 1 worldline? This is just completely illogical.

Now, back to OP's question:

agenT1337 said:
So I've just rewatched Steins;Gate but some things of how the time travelling system works still bothers me and I'm wondering if these things can be explained, so there will be SPOILERS for anyone who hasn't seen Steins Gate.

So as I understood it, only one worldline is active at a time, and whenever a D-Mail is sent, the world rebuilds itself accordingly. If there is anything wrong with this assumption, please let me know.

So, in Episode 24, the one Okabe that travels back twice with Suzuha and ultimately deceives the world, had to deceive his past self so that he would experience everything he has experienced so that the loop stays. The problem I have is that the past Okabe will change worldline to alpha immediately after seeing fake Kurisu dead. Thus, Okabe in Steins Gate world line (and everybody else) will move to alpha too. And then eventually again to Beta and so on.

El. Psy. Congroo.

Alpha Attractor Field won't re-activate again. Okabe travels back before the deceived Okabe could send the D-Mail, which means the worldline deactivates before he could send that D-Mail.

This is the complete chronology of the last few worldlines:

Worldline 1:
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0)
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu - > Worldline 2

Worldline 2:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, then fails to save Kurisu, he goes back to the future - > Worldline 3

Worldline 3:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, then fails to save Kurisu, he goes back to the future
- Okabe_2 see a dead Kurisu in a pool of blood, sends a D-Mail. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- Nakabachi steals the papers and flees.
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0)
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- August 21st, 18:00: Okabe_1 and Suzuha arrives back from the failed attempt. Okabe_1 watch the video
- August 21st, 18:15: Okabe_1 and Sizuha goes back again to save Kurisu - > Worldline 4

Worldline 4:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, know with the knowledge of Operation Skuld. He picks the metal Upa, saves Kurisu, the goes back to the future - > Worldline 5

Worldline 5:
- July 28th: Okabe_1 arrives, know with the knowledge of Operation Skuld. He picks the metal Upa, saves Kurisu, the goes back to the future
- Okabe_2 see an alive Kurisu in a pool of blood, sends a D-Mail. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- Nakabachi steals the papers and flees.
- August 17th: Okabe_1 arrives here from Alpha after deleting the first D-Mail. As he knows, Kurisu is dead.
- August 21st: Suzuha arrives from a previous worldline (from MWC worldline of Steins;Gate 0). As she knows, Kurisu is dead.
- August 21st, 17:50: Okabe_1 and Suzuha goes back to save Kurisu. This doesn't change anything, because this happened during this WL wasn't active (ghost future)
- August 21st, 17:55: The wounded Okabe_1 and Suzuha arrives back from the successful attempt. The papers burn between 17:55 and 18:00 (when the other Okabe_1 and Suzuha would arrive back). In the moment the papers burn, the worldline changes to Steins Gate, Suzuha disappears - > Steins Gate Worldline

Also, it is *Kongroo, not Congroo :)

Alright thank you a lot for your very detailed explanation and clarification that indeed only one wl is active, i thought I was going mad haha.

Okay that makes sense that Okabe_2 will not be able to send the D-Mail in time. I find it still a bit confusing though. If you look at the timeline as a whole, I could just pick a point where Okabe is just about to send the D-Mail, thus changing the Attractor field for everyone to Alpha. If you didn't get what I meant, what I'm basically saying is, Okabe_1 that is going back to the future and enters Steins Gate, is indeed faster than the Okabe_2 that he's seen glaring at fake dead Kurisu, but compared to a Okabe_2 further in the time of this wl, (let's say like 10 or 30 mins) he isn't faster and that further progressed Okabe_2 will send the D-Mail thus changing it for everyone, right? Maybe I understand something fundemantaly wrong but I just cannot wrap my head around that.

In fact how does Okabe every stay in Beta since there is always this one point in time where past Okabe in Beta sees Kurisu dead and sends the D-Mail. (I know Daru undid the D-Mail in Episode 22 which sets them at Beta again but how do they actually stay in Beta since there is always a past Okabe that will send a D-Mail that won't be undone until they are at the end in Alpha again?)

I'm confused as hell, so I might just accept that Okabe_1 is faster than Okabe_2 thus setting the wl for everone to Steins Gate once and for all.
Again thanks a lot for the explenation, it's definitely all a lot clearer now.

» Watch order Ruskimeister - Apr 15	30	by Alexioos95 »» 5 hours ago
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Samu-tan - Apr 3, 2011	557	by moshu_06 »» Yesterday, 2:44 PM
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) LadyOrihime - Aug 30, 2011	816	by The69King420 »» Yesterday, 2:11 PM
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Oosran - Jul 19, 2011	470	by The69King420 »» Yesterday, 12:17 PM
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Oosran - Apr 19, 2011	275	by 3Echoes5 »» Apr 10, 3:27 AM

SPOILERS "Only one worldline" paradox

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