| ^What the first person said Original novel is shounen ai (compared to harder yaoi that is MDZS). Is the donghua shounen ai? No. I doubt Chinese censorshits will allow any shounen ai on the screen. Nether MDZS donghua nor Untamed were even shounen ai. Depending on the director, they might try to sneak something in or just completely eliminate it. They go from romance to best bros to stay safe. Even the Chinese BL manhua (manga) are very censored, which is frustrating But if you found MDZS donghua, which is very censored, to be a lot of BL then you might just stop here |
Mr_Down said: Yes, it is Yaoi. I'm not a fan of Yaoi and Yuri animation too, however, I've got intrigued by the storyline of TGCF. Both MCs have complicated, miserable backstories which slowly their relationship develops into romance. I like the way the author (MXTX) presents their relationship as "pure love" rather than typical Yaoi by plotting several unfortunate events to boost both reliance to each other, rather than outright bodily sexual arousal in first place. Btw, it's not only a solely Yaoi genre, it incorporates mystery and action fighting too, which dilute the Yaoi atmosphere. can't agree more.... at first, i don't really like BL, i watched so many animes but never watch Japanese BL(you can check my list). MDZS and TGCF the only BL that i can tolerate, i can't even tolerate scumbag villain even thou i like the story. TGCF plot is so deep not focusing BL but BL element is the part of the plot and make it interesting and heart warming. |
Pssh.. They don't care.  |
bro, I hope you are not serious. China has a serious problem with censorships |
In regard to showing shounen-ai on screen? Meh, I haven't really seen it.. |
The more popular examples of how bad censors (and bans) can be due to on screen BL are the cases of Farewell my Concubine and Addicted (webseries). Some BL get turned straight, where one character is genderbended into a girl. MDZS donghua was heavily censored (e.g. Xuanwu cave), they even had problems with the violence. And that's for the media that goes on the screen. China recently banned fanfiction sites (like Ao3). BL content is often posted separately from the main thing (MXTX did this). So yeah, they do care. They care waaay too much and it messes with artistic freedom. They can do 'fanservice', but nothing to imply a relationship. Censors vary from media to media, it's looser for novels (obviously) but if someone calls you out, you can get in trouble for it. We have some anomalies like Spiritpact and Love is More than a Word. One had kisses allowed (non-romantic as author put it) and the other a wedding (I think it was posted separately, the show got cancelled since the director made it BL) |
Mici_Angels said: The more popular examples of how bad censors (and bans) can be due to on screen BL are the cases of Farewell my Concubine and Addicted (webseries). Some BL get turned straight, where one character is genderbended into a girl. MDZS donghua was heavily censored (e.g. Xuanwu cave), they even had problems with the violence. And that's for the media that goes on the screen. I wonder how much of that is actual censorship by Chinese authorities, and how much of it is (self)censoring by the industry (like they do in the Japanese animation industry). Mici_Angels said: We have some anomalies like Spiritpact and Love is More than a Word. One had kisses allowed (non-romantic as author put it) and the other a wedding (I think it was posted separately, the show got cancelled since the director made it BL) Some of the things Spiritpact season 1 had.. That's a pretty big anomaly.. How did they get all that through supposed censors.. I'm not going to comment on Love is more than a word, a Chinese live-action drama. I haven't seen it and i don't know the reasons for its cancellation. |
this_againNov 5, 2020 7:44 AM
Mici_Angels said: The more popular examples of how bad censors (and bans) can be due to on screen BL are the cases of Farewell my Concubine and Addicted (webseries). Some BL get turned straight, where one character is genderbended into a girl. MDZS donghua was heavily censored (e.g. Xuanwu cave), they even had problems with the violence. And that's for the media that goes on the screen. China recently banned fanfiction sites (like Ao3). BL content is often posted separately from the main thing (MXTX did this). So yeah, they do care. They care waaay too much and it messes with artistic freedom. They can do 'fanservice', but nothing to imply a relationship. Censors vary from media to media, it's looser for novels (obviously) but if someone calls you out, you can get in trouble for it. We have some anomalies like Spiritpact and Love is More than a Word. One had kisses allowed (non-romantic as author put it) and the other a wedding (I think it was posted separately, the show got cancelled since the director made it BL) What about Japan? What about all those Yaoi manga that got heavily censored in anime adaptation. They didn't censor as much tokyo ghoul sex scene for example. What about that Naruto episode when they showed girl on girl technique but skipped manga boy on boy technique? Or if it's the case what about hollywood. Having a gay character in big franchises is such controversial decision that even today you can't name one LGBT character from Disney movie or Marvel or SW. They half assed Dambldores sexality and people even then got mad! But fine lets pretend that China is the only country that has problem gay stuff on TV and films... |
That's because they're tip toeing around restrictions and could face legal consequences for showing explicit LGBT themes on screen. There was even a young 20 Year old woman who was given a 10 Year sentence in prison for officially publishing explicit homoerotic novels. Tgcf novel was published unofficially which is why mxtx isn't in prison yet. |
Xenia_nNov 5, 2020 8:26 AM
this_shit_again said: Mici_Angels said: The more popular examples of how bad censors (and bans) can be due to on screen BL are the cases of Farewell my Concubine and Addicted (webseries). Some BL get turned straight, where one character is genderbended into a girl. MDZS donghua was heavily censored (e.g. Xuanwu cave), they even had problems with the violence. And that's for the media that goes on the screen. I wonder how much of that is actual censorship by Chinese authorities, and how much of it is (self)censoring by the industry (like they do in the Japanese animation industry). Mici_Angels said: We have some anomalies like Spiritpact and Love is More than a Word. One had kisses allowed (non-romantic as author put it) and the other a wedding (I think it was posted separately, the show got cancelled since the director made it BL) Some of the things Spiritpact season 1 had.. That's a pretty big anomaly.. How did they get all that through supposed censors.. I'm not going to comment on Love is more than a word, a Chinese live-action drama. I haven't seen it and i don't know the reasons for its cancellation. As I said, they aren't in a romantic relationship, not even in the manhua. Kisses if I remember were related to some power transmitting thing or soulmate thing, for whatever reason that passed along with fanservice (Untamed passed with a lot too). Maybe the said company is better with passing censors (which could be good for TGCF), but majority of time that's not the case and isn't just erased. Happened to Di Wang Gong Lue 'twas completely censored, Dawn of World similarly. There are a few others donghua with the tag, but I'm willing to bet they also show nothing. Another thing. TGCF as far as I know is only released in China with the shounen ai tag. It's quiet possible that it would actually get 'extra' content once released in Taiwan. JJWXC the platform where the author posts her novels is very strict about explicit content and BL in particular, and with how much antis she has, it might have impacted that kind of content in TGCF |
athena1326 said: Mici_Angels said: The more popular examples of how bad censors (and bans) can be due to on screen BL are the cases of Farewell my Concubine and Addicted (webseries). Some BL get turned straight, where one character is genderbended into a girl. MDZS donghua was heavily censored (e.g. Xuanwu cave), they even had problems with the violence. And that's for the media that goes on the screen. China recently banned fanfiction sites (like Ao3). BL content is often posted separately from the main thing (MXTX did this). So yeah, they do care. They care waaay too much and it messes with artistic freedom. They can do 'fanservice', but nothing to imply a relationship. Censors vary from media to media, it's looser for novels (obviously) but if someone calls you out, you can get in trouble for it. We have some anomalies like Spiritpact and Love is More than a Word. One had kisses allowed (non-romantic as author put it) and the other a wedding (I think it was posted separately, the show got cancelled since the director made it BL) What about Japan? What about all those Yaoi manga that got heavily censored in anime adaptation. They didn't censor as much tokyo ghoul sex scene for example. What about that Naruto episode when they showed girl on girl technique but skipped manga boy on boy technique? Or if it's the case what about hollywood. Having a gay character in big franchises is such controversial decision that even today you can't name one LGBT character from Disney movie or Marvel or SW. They half assed Dambldores sexality and people even then got mad! But fine lets pretend that China is the only country that has problem gay stuff on TV and films... You are confusing floating clouds and pixeled bits with erased BL content..... 10/10 connection One of the reasons Hollywood doesn't add main lgbt characters is in fact China. They earn arguably the most from China. Movies that pass, even those with no lgbt, get censored in some way. The famuous underwater kiss in Aquaman? Gone. Ever seen a Japanese adaptation of an yaoi? Compare that with any of China's, you'll see quite a few holes. Not sure where you live, but there are more and more lgbt characters in tv series and movies. It's hard to pick a popular series where you don't have a gay or lesbian character. Don't compare censors in the west with China's. It's like comparing a sprained ankle to a missing foot.... |
Mici_Angels said: athena1326 said: What about Japan? What about all those Yaoi manga that got heavily censored in anime adaptation. They didn't censor as much tokyo ghoul sex scene for example. What about that Naruto episode when they showed girl on girl technique but skipped manga boy on boy technique? Or if it's the case what about hollywood. Having a gay character in big franchises is such controversial decision that even today you can't name one LGBT character from Disney movie or Marvel or SW. They half assed Dambldores sexality and people even then got mad! But fine lets pretend that China is the only country that has problem gay stuff on TV and films... You are confusing floating clouds and pixeled bits with erased BL content..... 10/10 connection One of the reasons Hollywood doesn't add main lgbt characters is in fact China. They earn arguably the most from China. Movies that pass, even those with no lgbt, get censored in some way. The famuous underwater kiss in Aquaman? Gone. Ever seen a Japanese adaptation of an yaoi? Compare that with any of China's, you'll see quite a few holes. Not sure where you live, but there are more and more lgbt characters in tv series and movies. It's hard to pick a popular series where you don't have a gay or lesbian character. Don't compare censors in the west with China's. It's like comparing a sprained ankle to a missing foot.... 1. What reverse harem had to do with BL? The technique is used to distract female character, It's 100% hetero. You still did not answered about censoring boy on boy technique, I guess you haven't read the manga. 2. ''You are confusing floating clouds and pixeled bits with erased BL content..... 10/10 connection'' Are you manga reader? Have you read Junjou romantica or dakaretai or any other BL manga that got adapted into TV series not an OVA that can even be hentai but proper TV series? That's not pixelated bits, that's an erased content. 3. I suggest you to read some western forums about this subject of gay characters in popular movies, you'll be surprised how many people heavily dislike that idea. Blaming China for this means you're out of touch with reality and place where I live in doesn't matter because as I already mentioned I only meant american big movie franchises. Back in early 2000 or 90's chinese box office have very little effect. For example Titanic only grossed 40ml in China. Yet everything was even strickter for american movies. Who are you going to blame for that time? And we here are talking about USA a country where gay people can get married and adopt kids, yet they still think that having gay character in Disney movie is too much. Of course China has big censoring problem with violence, sex, or some political ideas that aren't convenient for them. But acting like they have some major problems with gay stuff in pop culture while other countries like USA or Japan doesn't seems like some kind of propaganda. |
athena1326Nov 5, 2020 9:26 AM
athena1326 said: Mici_Angels said: You are confusing floating clouds and pixeled bits with erased BL content..... 10/10 connection One of the reasons Hollywood doesn't add main lgbt characters is in fact China. They earn arguably the most from China. Movies that pass, even those with no lgbt, get censored in some way. The famuous underwater kiss in Aquaman? Gone. Ever seen a Japanese adaptation of an yaoi? Compare that with any of China's, you'll see quite a few holes. Not sure where you live, but there are more and more lgbt characters in tv series and movies. It's hard to pick a popular series where you don't have a gay or lesbian character. Don't compare censors in the west with China's. It's like comparing a sprained ankle to a missing foot.... 1. What reverse harem had to do with BL? The technique is used to distract female character, It's 100% hetero. You still did not answered about censoring boy on boy technique, I guess you haven't read the manga. 2. ''You are confusing floating clouds and pixeled bits with erased BL content..... 10/10 connection'' Are you manga reader? Have you read Junjou romantica or dakaretai or any other BL manga that got adapted into TV series not an OVA that can even be hentai but proper TV series? That's not pixelated bits, that's an erased content. 3. I suggest you to read some western forums about this subject of gay characters in popular movies, you'll be surprised how many people heavily dislike that idea. Blaming China for this means you're out of touch with reality and place where I live in doesn't matter because as I already mentioned I only meant american big movie franchises. Back in early 2000 or 90's chinese box office have very little effect. For example Titanic only grossed 40ml in China. Yet everything was even strickter for american movies. Who are you going to blame for that time? And we here are talking about USA a country where gay people can get married and adopt kids, yet they still think that having gay character in Disney movie is too much. Of course China has big censoring problem with violence, sex, or some political ideas that aren't convenient for them. But acting like they have some major problems with gay stuff in pop culture while other countries like USA or Japan doesn't seems like some kind of propaganda. Which is far from the only thing removed. Remember the hung bodies in Orochimaru's cave? No where to be found in anime. If they were censoring bl, then why are there Sasuke and Naruto kisses ? Or the very blunt Sai on Naruto? *facepalm* Tell me please, are the characters still gay, engage in sexual activities or at least implied that they are in some relationship. Is one of them still a boy and not a girl? I've read JR to a certain point, I've watched two seasons, the very first episode is straight up yaoi, moaning and hj. You have Fujimi Orchestra which is even more explicit on the live series than it's manga and anime. Say, how is that possible? Find me an example of this with any donghua or even c-drama series which is 'bl'. I'm not out of touch with reality, you just have a weird way of equalizing something which isn't on the same level. I live in a homophobic country (USA isn't one, lets not kid ourselves) and every single content of a film/series is...there. Not censored at all. There's artistic freedom here. And our original shows also have gay characters from time to time. They aren't censored from existence :) And you started adding other countries to the topic. Are we gonna talk about middle eastern way of 'censoring' the gays too? My country compared to China's doesn't produce much BL anything even if we don't censor stuff, but china's population does. Google the Ao3 ban, a very recent thing. In this decade Chinese movie goers saved a lot of films. Warcraft is most notable, 'twas saved from being a flop thanks to china, that wasn't 20y.a. A lot of MCU movies really on it (check the movies grosses). Joker for an example was praised for reaching billion without airing in China, not being a blockbuster and for being an R rated film. There are tons of articles about how China influences Hollywood, it's literally there. You do actually have a character that is gay from Disney that was on the big screens (tv show do have them), Beauty and the Beast, the fat dude with the main villain. Don't know if that aired in China, I don't like Disney much, but those small bits with him were easily cutable since it's at the end. I mentioned a movie Farewell my Cocubine. This movie originally with homosexual conent aired for a bit in China, before getting banned. But after it recived awards overseas, it was allowed to continue screening in theathers after getting censored. The lgbt bits and Chinese revolution. I remember watching a pure lgbt series (USA's) called Queer as folk which aired 200 when USA was actually homophobic. I also read a fine book called Persian Boy from '73, even worse times. Japan on the other hand is still homophobic, but they give authors the artistic freedom. The government hasn't shut down major fanfics sites or BL sites as far as I know, nor does it demand you give your personal info for trying to write fanfics. It's not propaganda, it's real. Read up. It's unfair what the chinese people have to go through and I'm not gonna be ignorant about it. |
Harami444 said: Hello there! At first, please do not be offended by my thread. I didn't read the novel so I would like to ask you if it's going to by Shonen Ai/Yaoi because I finished 1st episode and I've got that feeling. I do not like this kind of genre, that's why I dropped the MDZS/The Untamed. But this one looks much more obvious (opening, main character, the end of the episode). Thank you fir the answer and please, do not be offensive, I am just here to inform myself. That's actually the opposite for me Everyone was hyping up LWJ and WWX as being like the best couple in all of anime, but they actually toned down the romance in their relationship for the anime :( kinda disappointing, but they are still one of my favorite duo's in anime I heard this comes from the same creator who made MDZS, and google says yes so..... |
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Mici_Angels said: As I said, they aren't in a romantic relationship, not even in the manhua. Kisses if I remember were related to some power transmitting thing or soulmate thing, Oh, okay. I guess we'll just file scenes like this under 'bro-talk' then.. Mici_Angels said: for whatever reason that passed along with fanservice (Untamed passed with a lot too).Maybe the said company is better with passing censors (which could be good for TGCF), but majority of time that's not the case and isn't just erased. Happened to Di Wang Gong Lue 'twas completely censored, Dawn of World similarly. There are a few others donghua with the tag, but I'm willing to bet they also show nothing. Another thing. TGCF as far as I know is only released in China with the shounen ai tag. It's quiet possible that it would actually get 'extra' content once released in Taiwan. Or consider the other explanation.. The people in charge of the production have a (conservative) set notion of what they think viewers will accept, so they tone down the BL. These are costly productions after all and so they believe that by doing so, they can reach a wider audience. Mici_Angels said: JJWXC the platform where the author posts her novels is very strict about explicit content and BL in particular, and with how much antis she has, it might have impacted that kind of content in TGCF A commercial platform is restricting explicit content and BL.. Could be a number of reasons for that.. Mici_Angels said: One of the reasons Hollywood doesn't add main lgbt characters is in fact China. They earn arguably the most from China. Movies that pass, even those with no lgbt, get censored in some way. The famuous underwater kiss in Aquaman? Gone. There's a reason why the MCU had a diversity problem for so long.. Not everything is a Chinese conspiracy. |
this_againNov 5, 2020 2:41 PM
You would file them right then... this_shit_again said: Or consider the other explanation.. The people in charge of the production have a (conservative) set notion of what they think viewers will accept, so they tone down the BL. These are costly productions after all and so they believe that by doing so, they can reach a wider audience. You are right that they are conservative, censorship and reporting goes way back. Doesn't explain the novels where authors post on separate sites like Weibo or Lofter till they get printed in another country (like Taiwan). Nor does it explain the wide ban of fanfiction sites (no profit gain or loss). Like ao3. It's erasing, simple as that. MXTX has all of her MDZS and SVSS chapters locked down on the platform she's on, TGCF got locked (or just that chapter) due to a kiss. More on here situation I'll link here, to a discussion TGCF reddit had a few days ago this_shit_again said: There's a reason why the MCU had a diversity problem for so long.. Not everything is a Chinese conspiracy. Of course, a republican is always at source of the problem ! Is that the same reason why Star Wars and DCEU are lacking in the field? Or those crazed action movies? MCU is one thing, what about the rest? TV shows are fine, just one look at DC shows says enough, but it's not the same on the big screen |
ilalochezia said: In response to what Mici_Angels (#24) said, whether "what the Chinese people have to go through" is unfair might vary from opinion to opinion. Even with such tiptoeing around restrictions on artistic freedom, the art community in mainland China is still able to produce a high quality of work. You could look at it this way: right now, there is more quality than quantity (quantity - that is to say, the spectrum of artistic ideas that are expressed). Of course, in some instances the quality of art depends on this quantity or spectrum. Pardon me, didn't want this to grow beyond the first comment, I never liked censorships in any country but topic of Chinese censorship is more personal for me. I never heard from a pal on Ao3 after they took it banned it this year. Another (not from China) explained how the system works to some extent, mostly for dramas since the topic was Untamed/Xiao Zhan and the rest was mostly via reddit or exploring. If anything, you get more creative while hiding or making subtext, which Untamed did extremely well, and MXTX's slow burn novels are grand, also convenient for her to post only the later chapters elsewear. I do prefer those over my usual japanese manga, I have 2HA already lined up |
So basically at the level where the Japanese animation industry was a few years ago. And often still is.. Mici_Angels said: this_shit_again said: Or consider the other explanation.. The people in charge of the production have a (conservative) set notion of what they think viewers will accept, so they tone down the BL. These are costly productions after all and so they believe that by doing so, they can reach a wider audience. You are right that they are conservative, censorship and reporting goes way back. Doesn't explain the novels where authors post on separate sites like Weibo or Lofter till they get printed in another country (like Taiwan). Nor does it explain the wide ban of fanfiction sites (no profit gain or loss). Like ao3. It's erasing, simple as that. MXTX has all of her MDZS and SVSS chapters locked down on the platform she's on, TGCF got locked (or just that chapter) due to a kiss. More on here situation I'll link here, to a discussion TGCF reddit had a few days ago Again, I wonder how much of that is actually due to government censorship and how much of it is due to (media) companies making that choice willingly because of.. for example, shared sentiments. Mici_Angels said: this_shit_again said: There's a reason why the MCU had a diversity problem for so long.. Not everything is a Chinese conspiracy. Of course, a republican is always at source of the problem ! Is that the same reason why Star Wars and DCEU are lacking in the field? Or those crazed action movies? MCU is one thing, what about the rest? In Disney's case, I'd say it's historically in line with their stance towards LGBT representation in practically every facet of their media enterprise.. See these older articles to get an idea of their views at the time:
So yes, I'd say that aversion towards LGBT representation at Disney still very much exists.. In DC's case, I can think of a number of factors why..
There's also a commonality these three franchises share, they all have a toxic fanbase of (i'm guessing) straight males who throw a complete fit every time there's even the slightest attempt at diversity. For example.. So I wonder how much of that decision makers take into account.. Mici_Angels said: TV shows are fine, just one look at DC shows says enough, but it's not the same on the big screen Two things.. Wasn't Greg Berlanti, a gay man, the driving force behind a lot of that.. And aren't you forgetting about international licensing of TV shows.. They're being sold abroad as well. |
| Thread Locked The original question has been answered and now it's devolving into a discussion about censorship. Anime Discussion Rules 5: Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. |
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