Fairy Tail Chapter 491 Discussion

Mega_Trainer said:
The sound I made when I saw Gajeel was still alive was not human xD

Mega_Trainer said:
The sound I made when I saw Gajeel was still alive was not human xD

Isterio said:

That´s the biggest flaw all of the FT cast has character wise. Whenever it comes to the guild they spout about how "important" it is to them. That being said though, all of them seperate into several groups that value each other differently. Some of them keep consistently hanging around and do work together, while they only beat each other up with others.
There is just no way they´d go to the same lenghts for each individual member.
People could argue against my argument by claiming how the "bonding" was made or keeps being refreshed off screen, but fact is, we never got it confirmed and it wasn´t even implicated.

Back to Erza. I do agree that Grey is among the most developed characters, but take a look at the why. Because of his interactions with characters outside the guild that don´t limit him. The same sources Erza and Lucy got their development from. I also don´t see how Gajeel of all people is more developed than her storywise. He´s the Vegeta of this story but nothing else aside from his relationship with Levi, which was only recently confirmed. If you compare it to his state as a sidecharacter then yes, because he had by far more than Natsu or Wendy.

Makarov not knowing is just convenient Shounen storytelling. But it has a decent explanation. They had him as a hostage, which doesn´t mean that he was completely free to roam around. It explains how he couldn find out much details. It´s just the typical terrible plan plotline, that makes the idiot MC save the day, because everything the smart guys could do was meaningless, nothing worse than other Shounen. She could still have been planned. Remember when Silver was introduced and turned out to be Greys father? It was out of nowhere too, especially considering how convenient it would have been for Tartaros to go into the destroyed village, revive the corpses and leave without ever encountering Ul and leaving Deliora be to do his thing, when he could have been a useful asset to them. His only foreshadowing was the giants village and his design.

If my theory comes true, Irene could have been foreshadowed since Tower of Heaven. No this is not exxagerating, Hiro Mashima foreshadowed the Dragons in the Children during the Laxus arc and they were 300+ chapters apart.

badlands9 said:
This chapter is actually quite interesting if i say so myself. First Gajeel is alive, second, Zera is 'revived' but temporarily, and lastly Irene finally sees Erza (or her hair to be more precised).

I have a theory that Irene is probably Erza's older sister then her mom, i mean like she seems a little to young to be her mother doesn't she? Also, if you look at the title of chapter 492 it's 'Older sister and Younger sister', so i feel like it's gonna concentrate on Erza and Irene.

As for Zera, i actually like the idea of her being 'revived' even if it's for a short time, Fairy Tail do need an extra help. But doesn't Mavis always thinks of her? She probably does remember her too, so i find it a little weird. i don't know. I also knew that Gajeel wasn't dead, i mean Hiro did say that Fairy Tail WILL have a happy ending. And i'd also like to see Levy's reaction when she sees him.

Darklight0303 said:

Age is not perfectly reflected by appearance. You should know that already or is Zeref not proof enough?

frostmourn said:

Actually Gajeel did get a LOT of development.

1. Laxus arc
2. Tenrou arc
3. Tartarus arc
4. Alvarez arc (now)

Erza had development only in tower of heaven (and possibly a little amount in GMG vs kagura)

Isterio said:


Well, what´s a little and what´s alot, you can argue that whenever Erza had a confrontation with Jellal there was development.

I don´t deny that Gajeel is more developed than some MC´s but it´s not that much either. He went from being a bad boy to being a good boy and he fell in love. I also think that the whole storyline with the old lady during Tartaros was kinda asspulled because imo his original reason for joining was sufficient. Makarov saw potential in the boy. Of course it was tied together through the old council lady making the claim towards Makarov, but it was something the story could have dealt without. Nonetheless he´s a well written character for FT standards. He has chapters like 488. but he also has chapters like 443 and we know barely anything about his past. He´s a potential candidate for having an awesome backstory, but I don´t see who could tell it at this point.

frostmourn said:


Little and lot relates to the impact that I felt and made in the story. Lol, guess it's just personal.

At least the old lady had an impact later on in the story, Gajeel joined the council. It didn't feel like an asspull to me, gajeel being the dumbass he is most probably got arrested multiple times and it's only believable that at least someone there tried to correct him, contrary to the mommy scarlet who outta nowhere came saying she's comparable to August.

Forgot to add Erza letting Jellal get captured at the end of OS arc, but that's about all I think for Erza.

And Erza isn't even the least developed of the MC (looking at Natsu, wendy and Lucy-Aquarius was BS, she left her to die multiple times and tried to kill her multiple times, her being close to Lucy was forced AF)

Edit: actually Erza is very developed TBH, just that doesn't change her from being the one dimensional character she is during ALL fights

lienleaf said:
So Tenrou Island is now fused with the Mainland? Does that mean every FT gets an extra Magic boost like in the Tenrou Island arc? That'd be cool, though unnecessary.

short_review said:
For me good Fairy Tail stopped at chapter 130 so ... but since it was one of my first manga/anime I'm still trying to finish it.

I was really disapointed after the Luxus arc by the absolute lack of character development and the fact that we didn't care anymore for the main quest.

At first there was
2 very small arcs to introduce the tandem Lucy + Natsu
+ 1 arc to create the team Erza + Natsu + Lucy + Gray
then character development
for Gray : Galuna
for Lucy : Phantom Lord (introducing Gajeel, tormented but good character) + Loki small arc + Love & Lucky
for Erza : Tower of heaven
for Luxus : Battle of Fairy Tail

So at that moment I thought "ok the 4, 5 or 6 main chars have been introduced and everyone has a background it's time to move to the plot and go looking for that dragon". So I imagined Mashima would have Natsu and Lucy take their backpacks and travel Fiore and have adventures and we would discover the map of Fiore and its geography and we would be introduced to new ennemies and allies that would play a role all along the story.

But no ! From this moment Natsu completely forgot about dragons and he only did "what he was asked to do". Where is the feeling of adventure here??

For 3 consecutive arcs and half of the 4th one the main plot did not progress. That's 200 chapters that we did spend
- introducing a loli
- introducing the most annoying character of the manga : Carla
- introducing other guilds (good point here)
- resurrecting Lisanna and destroying a part of what made the Elfman / Mirajane an interesting duo
- getting rid of Mystogan's ... mystery?
- introducing a boring character : Mest
- introducing the biggest copycat ever : Not Shanks
- introducing the most bored, boring and pointless ennemy ever : Zeref
- doing the most useless timeskip ever

And suddenly Dragons coming from the celestial gate ! GUYS THERE ARE DRAGONS IN THIS STORY REMEMBER 300 CHAPTERS AGO ?!

Then we had chapter 342 : "The beginning of a new adventure", and I was like "will this story care for the plot again hopefully ?" The village of the sun felt like "adventure" and it was cool (and I gave it really good rating) but soon enough Tartaros and ... "IGNEEL IS HERE GUY ! IGNEEL IS HERE ! ... IGNEEL IS DEAD ! ! "... so much for the main quest ... we never looked for Igneel and not only that but he doesn't even get his own arc and gets killed immediately ... who wrote this?



So the main point of this story is not to accomplish the quest introduced in chapter 1 but to defeat a bored teenager who was introduced in the Tower of heaven in volume 10.

Yeah !

ok I'm reading for fanservice

short_review said:
For me good Fairy Tail stopped at chapter 130 so ... but since it was one of my first manga/anime I'm still trying to finish it.

I was really disapointed after the Luxus arc by the absolute lack of character development and the fact that we didn't care anymore for the main quest.

At first there was
2 very small arcs to introduce the tandem Lucy + Natsu
+ 1 arc to create the team Erza + Natsu + Lucy + Gray
then character development
for Gray : Galuna
for Lucy : Phantom Lord (introducing Gajeel, tormented but good character) + Loki small arc + Love & Lucky
for Erza : Tower of heaven
for Luxus : Battle of Fairy Tail

So at that moment I thought "ok the 4, 5 or 6 main chars have been introduced and everyone has a background it's time to move to the plot and go looking for that dragon". So I imagined Mashima would have Natsu and Lucy take their backpacks and travel Fiore and have adventures and we would discover the map of Fiore and its geography and we would be introduced to new ennemies and allies that would play a role all along the story.

But no ! From this moment Natsu completely forgot about dragons and he only did "what he was asked to do". Where is the feeling of adventure here??

For 3 consecutive arcs and half of the 4th one the main plot did not progress. That's 200 chapters that we did spend
- introducing a loli
- introducing the most annoying character of the manga : Carla
- introducing other guilds (good point here)
- resurrecting Lisanna and destroying a part of what made the Elfman / Mirajane an interesting duo
- getting rid of Mystogan's ... mystery?
- introducing a boring character : Mest
- introducing the biggest copycat ever : Not Shanks
- introducing the most bored, boring and pointless ennemy ever : Zeref
- doing the most useless timeskip ever

And suddenly Dragons coming from the celestial gate ! GUYS THERE ARE DRAGONS IN THIS STORY REMEMBER 300 CHAPTERS AGO ?!

Then we had chapter 342 : "The beginning of a new adventure", and I was like "will this story care for the plot again hopefully ?" The village of the sun felt like "adventure" and it was cool (and I gave it really good rating) but soon enough Tartaros and ... "IGNEEL IS HERE GUY ! IGNEEL IS HERE ! ... IGNEEL IS DEAD ! ! "... so much for the main quest ... we never looked for Igneel and not only that but he doesn't even get his own arc and gets killed immediately ... who wrote this?



So the main point of this story is not to accomplish the quest introduced in chapter 1 but to defeat a bored teenager who was introduced in the Tower of heaven in volume 10.

Yeah !

ok I'm reading for fanservice

metsujin said:

I get your points, and some of them are understandable like Carla she's very annoying, Lisanna return was unecessary, Mystogan was cool but I personally didn't care too much about him, Gildarts... I do like him, and there's no denying his character is inspired by Shanks (design wise, tho different traits and personalities) but he was also mentioned before introduced.

metsujin said:


You make some good points, but Fairy Tail's story was never about Natsu finding Igneel, that was his personal goal. The story of Fairy Tail is about a group of people and their adventures. Plus many times its implied that Natsu searched for Igneel, also if you look at the arcs he can't really (talking about Natsu) search for his foster father since there's shit happening right now, he's not a 'selfish' person to just leave everyone and go look for Igneel, that's just the way he is.

After the Tower of Heaven arc, the dragons say they won't interfere with the humans and come out when they're most needed, so by that time (when you still liked it), you knew they would appear eventually, and Mashima foreshadowed it pretty well. Also after the Tower of Heaven arc, Wendy was foreshadowed too, so you knew she would come. Zeref too was mentioned a couple of times before introduced and he wasn't anything like how people described him to be.

I get your points, and some of them are understandable like Carla she's very annoying, Lisanna return was unecessary, Mystogan was cool but I personally didn't care too much about him, Gildarts... I do like him, and there's no denying his character is inspired by Shanks (design wise, tho different traits and personalities) but he was also mentioned before introduced.

The first time skip is really rubish and if Mashima killed Makarov off there, I think things would've gotten more interesting, and it would eventually lead to the current arc (I don't know how he would've introduced the Eclipse, because that's a key point in what the story is now).

For me Fairy Tail got disappointing in the GMG arc, same with many people. Tartaros was better, and now we have this arc which is about the same as GMG, average and such. I don't know I get why people dislike FT, but also get why they still love it, I'm pretty much in the middle... so yea.

short_review said:
@ Frostmourn & Metsujin

I think we agree that a good story has to establish its point quickly, because its important for the reader to know where we are going. It works like this in One Piece, Naruto, Kingdom, HxH somehow, Toriko, FullMetal Alchemist, Bakuman ...

Mangas that don't follow this rule but want to succeed try to emphasize character development through the story and introduce long term foes since the first volumes of the manga. Magi for example works like this, we don't know where we are exactly going but the story is still about Alibaba and Sinbad. Gintama on another hand is surviving a lot through comedy.

Then there are mangas which fail at establishing a goal and kill off the main vilains too soon : Bleach is the perfect example. Who reads Bleach today?

So now back to what you said. you tell me that the point of Fairy Tail is the story of the guild and I think that you're right it's the goal of Hiro Mashima. But is accomplishing tasks that the master gives you that entertaining?

Wouldn't it have been more entertaining to have a main hero chasing after dragons even if the 3 or 4 other main characters were following their own agenda?

Plus if it's the story of the guild then I expect character development. Now if we look at the guild, its a lot of people. Is it really possible to care about so many people? Plus most of them are NPC with random face, we don't even know their names they are just here to say "there are people in the guild", others have a name but they have been spending their time in the building since the first arc : Droy, Jet, that telepathy guy, the two hunters ... And then there is the inner circle : Makarov, Levy, Mirajane, Gajeel, ... but all in all, all these characters get no development at all except for a few shipping. How should I care really? They could all die for it doesn't matter at all.

All in all having a story about something as big as a guild but chosing to develop only 4 of them is perfectly stupid. Imagine the adventures of Luffy, Zoro Nami and ... their 60 buddies : John 1, John 2, John 3 ... John 60. Just get rid of the 60 and keep the three main chars.



And yeah Makarov should have died on Tenrou, that would have been far more meaningfull.

Darklight0303 said:


Age is not perfectly reflected by appearance. You should know that already or is Zeref not proof enough?

Jarjaxle said:
So....Gajeel was not competently dead but was in moving between real life and underworld....So in other Words...Eileen just activated her Magic on right time...and He got Seriously LUCKY....Well...Acceptable reason...I am OK with that. Not that Much of Bullshit reason...even if I think People will Disagree vehemently....

Lol...and after that confession...Gajeel is embarrassed! XD
and that also activated the Zera Memory...and Summoned her back from Underworld huh... I DON'T F***ING CARE IF PEOPLE SAY THAT IS REAL ZERA!!!! I SAY THIS IS HER SOUL THAT LIVES INSIDE THE ILLUSION MAVIS MADE!!!! THIS IS REAL ZERA AND THAT IS END OF THAT!!!!!

and Complete Massacre of the Fiore Royal Guard....I and Everybody else Knew that These Guys did not seriously stand a Chance... Respect for them tough, for doing their Duty Admirably and for not running. and Meeting between Eileen and Erza...In next chapter...Caesar Mark, CAESAR MARK!!!

....and Looks like what ever happened with Erza and her caused her to spit on Parents-Childs love in what she did to Hisui is any confirmation. King is real parent tough.

Well Zera has some MAgic huh....Telepathy...

Darklight0303 said:


Age is not perfectly reflected by appearance. You should know that already or is Zeref not proof enough?

short_review said:
So now back to what you said. you tell me that the point of Fairy Tail is the story of the guild and I think that you're right it's the goal of Hiro Mashima. But is accomplishing tasks that the master gives you that entertaining?

Wouldn't it have been more entertaining to have a main hero chasing after dragons even if the 3 or 4 other main characters were following their own agenda?

Plus if it's the story of the guild then I expect character development. Now if we look at the guild, its a lot of people. Is it really possible to care about so many people? Plus most of them are NPC with random face, we don't even know their names they are just here to say "there are people in the guild", others have a name but they have been spending their time in the building since the first arc : Droy, Jet, that telepathy guy, the two hunters ... And then there is the inner circle : Makarov, Levy, Mirajane, Gajeel, ... but all in all, all these characters get no development at all except for a few shipping. How should I care really? They could all die for it doesn't matter at all.

All in all having a story about something as big as a guild but chosing to develop only 4 of them is perfectly stupid. Imagine the adventures of Luffy, Zoro Nami and ... their 60 buddies : John 1, John 2, John 3 ... John 60. Just get rid of the 60 and keep the three main chars.

And yeah Makarov should have died on Tenrou, that would have been far more meaningfull.

frostmourn said:


on top of being taken to the underworld, it was said that Gajeel's body became disintegrated by magic barriers.

Just reminding you that this made ZERO sense.

Moreover, why is Bradman not back? I know, no one cares to bother........

Cejara said:


Good point about Bradman because he basically did the same thing that happened to Gajeel when he dispersed himself into particles, so he should technically be back too. Nice call on that.

Isterio said:

Gajeel was dispersed second. Bradman specifically said "I´ll take you with me". It´s the Ultimate convenience, but that´s nothing new to media in general.

People may complain that it´s poorly paced and it was too early for him to come back, but given the circumstances the situation makes perfect sense.

Cejara said:

I honestly wouldn't have minded it if this didn't happen all the time. Everything as of lately is due to unbelievable convenience. Its to the point where there is no more suspension of disbelief on things such as Gajeel's anymore when they come back to life because I know something will conveniently take place and all will be well in a chapter or 3.

Isterio said:


It´s a staple within writing. The arriving reinforcements have always to reach their destination when the Main character is in perril and about to get killed.
Replaceable or irrelevant characters don´t enjoy this luxury, this includes villains and side characters.

Every Shounen without exception uses this formula.

Can the story be continued without the character?

Y: Character can be killed off. N: He must live.

Ofc it´s always subjective to judge which character is irreplaceable for the stories conclusion and which is not. But you can assist that judgement. Through sources outside the medium, like comments the author has made about his story, or by extending earlier writing conventions the author exploited.

Aka don´t expect a comedy to turn into a drama and vice versa.

A good example of "free writing" would be the Song of Ice and Fire and the Warcraft Universe. Because neither of them have defined main characters the stories can take any direction they want. As opposed to Tolkien whose stories always require the Main cast to fullfill their purpose first before they may die, whose formula 99% of modern literature and media follow. I could go on how it can be retraced to antiquity, whose works were the inspiration for yesterdays authors, but people should know by now.

Cejara said:

I mean i understand that and all but Mashima seems to be using that awfully alot lately where it negatively impacts the story. Its not just about the character deaths, but the convenient 1 hit ko's on enemies or asspulls that have been happening recently. It just seems he needs to lay off the clutch a bit on that writing device because it is showing how much the fans of FT are getting fed up with it. I know FT is a story that isn't supposed to be grim and all, but for example Gajeel he could have not killed him off and it would of made it a whole lot better because he was brought back in 2 chapters anyways. Things like that seem pointless and is polarizing the FT readers.

Isterio said:


You must be either new to Fairy Tail or just way more tolerant towards the bullshit. The bullshit started happening from Tenrou Island onwards and reached it´s pinnacle during the Daimatou Enbou, from there on on he holds back occasionally, but the oneshots and the asspulls didn´t become any worse.

Cejara said:

I remember the whole Tenrou thing, but to be honest I don't remember much of the GMG and on, since its been a while, so I am probably more tolerant to it because I just forgot lol. Either way I am here to finish this series, so I have to be a tolerant of the bullshit in a way. I didn't think Tartarus was that bad honestly. I want to say GMG had some pretty decent fights too that weren't too ass-pullish xD although I remember not liking the knight fights (under the castle).

Isterio said:


The one shots specifically started during Daimatou Enbu, before that it´d happen occasionally like Phantom Lord and Erza vs the Wind S class mage. Or Erza vs Nightmare. The difference was that Erza at this point was broken and those enemies never managed to put up much of a fight without using underhanded techniques and although exhausted she never got hurt, while other weaker characters had their struggles, which made them exciting to watch.

Tenru Island had two I remember. First Natsu and Zancrow which I called out when it was released, the second was Erza vs Azuma where "she´s Erza" started.
But it was overshadowed through the plot progression and Gray had a good fight.
Daimatou Enbou consisted mostly of raw fighting and it began really promising, it had it´s huge setup and the first legitimate fight of Elfman vs Bacchus was suspenseful and well done. It was after this fight where it became horseshit and Hiro frocefed the audience with everything that FT gets criticized for, which he continued doing with the occasional good chapters.

Cejara said:

Well I know for sure that Erza is a broken character because he wrote her poorly in terms of plot (not character development though). I did like most of the fights on Tenrou Island though (besides Melodi's), I just didn't like the whole Acnologia thing in which it ended out which seemed completely out of the blue and random that they were saved by the barrier at the last second.

Isterio said:

Gajeel was dispersed second. Bradman specifically said "I´ll take you with me". When Irene saved him by mistake she didn´t save Bradman because for him it was to late. It´s the Ultimate convenience, but that´s nothing new to media in general and especially Shounen and yes this includes SnK and HxH.

People may complain that it´s poorly paced and it was too early for him to come back, but given the circumstances the situation makes perfect sense.

frostmourn said:


Gajeel said that his body became a lump of barriers, it's implied that he was disintegrating from the very beginning.

You can't defend that lol

Isterio said:

If this was the case it would have made no sense for him to be capable to hit Bradman with a final attack. This specifically is most likely a translation fuckup or you just missred, or simply missunderstood.
Given the context of the story everyone can deduct that Bradman was dead before he was. Furthermore because it´s magic and the terms are all made up without any clear explanation of their meaning we have to go off the existing evidence.

Every character in the world can inhale anti magic barrier particles, although it was established that they´re especially lethal against magic wielding people Laxus a character of stong constitution was capable of inhaling high loads of it, which lead to him developing cancer, while characters who may or may not have been magic wielders with worse constitution died immediately through poisoning. The thundergod tribe a group of people with mediocore constitution and magic wielders could inhale them as well without dying or permanent repercussions through the addition of medical treatment.

Meaning that the condition you´ve described was an effect of the spatial distortion, caused by Bradmans final ability who he only used after he was defeated, not the anti magic barrier particles. His ability, has a high probability of being a suicide move, as this is the only explanation, as to why he didn´t use that overpowered move to begin with. Bradmans wording actually supports this.

Given the context we had it´s similar to the move "explosion" from Pokemom. Where the user sacrifices his life in order to create an ability that "definately" kills it´s target through the spatial distortion of particles, a concept that´s debated among physicists to be possible to exist in reallife. But because this is fiction, this principle may be applied as truth, through a singular entity blessed with "magic".This is ridiculous on it´s own, mind you, but we further got an explanation, that an even more powerful enitity, who was blessed with even greater "magic", was capable of applying a spell, that utilized spatial distortion, within the whole vincinity of a country without specified size.

Given the context of the story, this would make no sense whatsoever in reallife, but if the rules Hiro Mashima established for FT are followed, it does make sense for the series.
Sorry but no. This time around he broke none of his own rules.

Simply spoken what happened was, Bradmans ability would have teleported Gajeel into the underworld, but because Irene´s magic functions as a reshuffle he instead of was teleported to a random location on the continent.

frostmourn said:


What I said was exactly what happened in the manga. See:
http://readms.com/r/fairy_tail/488/3455/5


Pokemon is like tom and jerry lol, you aren't meant to take them seriously. Death never happens except in movies in Pokemon

Isterio said:

And what I did was explain why you can´t blame the resent developments for breaking the rules.You may hate it for other reasons, but that´s personal.

Pokemon was just a move comparision. Conceptual the move "explosion" and Bradmans final magic are probably the same. If you don´t like the example. It´s the same as Deidara´s final C4 where he eats his own clay to become the explosion.

It´s even compareable to the point where Sasuke used spatial distortion to avoid the attack. In this case Irene is Manda.

frostmourn said:


Did you read the page in the link?

What do you infer from that?

And yes, it's personal. I actually wouldn't have minded an asspull at the end of the series, but why now? He just died 2 chapters back 😠

Isterio said:


I read the whole chapter in two different translations not just the page!

That Gajeel was brought back through a legitimate way!

Well that´s the only fault you can blame FT for, it´s nonetheless not a plothole, other Shounen do it too and FT has done it in the past, there´s no reason for Hiro to stop doing it or for people to expect otherwise. Fact is, Gajeel being alive makes perfect sense and arguebly is less of an asspull than Jellal´s return into the story, which was in your beloved part one.