| It's almost as if the animators were simps. |
 |
| Episode 20 is now the second lowest rated episode of Babylonia (82.6%) on Nico Nico Douga after episode 11 (71.1%). https://w.atwiki.jp/nicoliveanimesurvey/pages/1183.html |
| I wont comment on ep 11 but 82,6 isnt low at all. At this point I think we are looking for a chance to shit talk it. |
| But everyone on the internet talk about how it isn't perfect adaption so obviously it's bad and a failure. Guess we have to go back and watch the other Fate anime that was perfect. |
 |
| That was the goal?A perfect adaptation? |
| No. |
|
ssjokg said: I wont comment on ep 11 but 82,6 isnt low at all. At this point I think we are looking for a chance to shit talk it. It's not that low, just lower than 18 other episodes of this show, albeit not by a lot. I don't really need a chance to shit talk episode 20. Here, let me do it right now. Why didn't Merlin, the one that's clearly alive, go into Nega-Genisis himself instead of just helping Ritsuka? And no, he wasn't supporting Mashu. It was explicitly said that Lord Camelot on its own can rival that field. Everything bends into a knot so Ritsuka can be shoehorned into the climax. See? I don't need an opportunity :p |
astroprogsMar 16, 2020 9:39 AM
| The Nega Genesis explanation doesnt make sense anyway.Why arent living beings "established forms of life"? And you can find other less obvious bullshit in the series anyway, like: How did Benkei find a Quetzalcoatlus to get a ride in ep18? How the hell did Gorgon manage to miss any vitals when she chomped on Ushi? How can fake Benkei even beat so many dark Ushi's when even the real deal was defeated by Ushi? Why did Leonidas use his most iconic phrase only for him to straight up throw their weapons at the enemy?(Yeah i know it is the taunt it still doesnt make sense) How did Ushi create clones?It wasnt Merlin's illusion since she was dealing damage. And at the end Ritsuka didnt deliver the final blow at all nor did he do major damage. AND at least he didnt get any asspull superpowers at the last moment like a certain homunculus. If anything he was what Astolfo was in the Karna vs Sieg fight. He was relevant sure but he didnt steal the show. Now if he suddenly had the ability to kill the Jojo Lahmus I would agree. |
| Answers immediately come to my mind to all of these questions. They don't really pose a challenge to think of how these came to be. Benkei did some badass cool as shit hops on Lahmus above the mud until he got to a Quetzalcoatlus. This is believable because he's a Servant. Gorgon less missed vitals and more didn't care about Ushi. She just wanted to get to Uruk asap. As soon as she immobilized her, she went straight there. Benkei defeated exactly one Ushi and that's by taking her by surprise. The other instances are him darting around to keep them off Ritsuka's back. What's wrong with the Leonidas scene? The Spartans didn't just defend in that battle, you know. The Ushi clones are a byproduct of the tales of Shana-oh where she used the tengu fan in her childhood and made duplicates of herself. It's the basis for her Assassin form NP. All of these are negligible and aren't even close to comparable to outright lore breaking and conflicting sentences on the same effing paragraph. The original content in episode 20 is an entirely different beast. My point wasn't that Ritsuka Sieg'd it up and changed the scene to hog it, it's that the writers changed the scene the wrong way. I can think of many ways to make him more involved with the plot and showcase his encounter with Tiamat even better that break neither the lore nor my brain while watching it. |
astroprogsMar 16, 2020 10:47 AM
astroprogs said: Why didn't Merlin, the one that's clearly alive, go into Nega-Genisis himself instead of just helping Ritsuka? Isn't that entirely in-line with how you'd expect Merlin to behave though? It's questionable how much of what Merlin says is even true or not in the first place. For an example, it's still up to debate whether Merlin really is as weak as he claims to be or if he's hiding his power on purpose as to not take a more central role. A lot of his behavioural patterns and implications of what he's capable of don't match up with his claims, which is to suggest that he could very well be full of shit whenever he opens his mouth. Even if we hypothetically assume Merlin could enter Nega Genesis, I don't think it'd be out of character for him to persuade Ritsuka into doing it instead. It's the same way Merlin could have contributed to prevent Camelot's fall in some measure, but chose not to. Letting Ritsuka deal the all-important blow because he's the ''star of the journey'' and Merlin himself is a mere ''observer'' that occasionally provides a helping hand I think is pretty in line with his non-confrontational and whimsical attitude. That's not to say I disagree with you regarding the way Ritsuka's scene was excuted and the change in Nega-Genesis' ability seems absolutely non-sensical - which is why I'm waiting for Nasu to provide some sort of an explanation; but I don't think Merlin is really as proactive as you seem to suggest he is. I think deliberately not doing something he's capable of just so he could keep up the ''I'm a weak little sunflower'' facade and not take the center stage is pretty much how I'd expect Merlin to behave like. |
| Lahmus are a serious enemy that I cant see letting him do that. There is no reason for her to miss and not kill her on the way.And my issue is more that if Ushi was lucky to not get shredded by the teeth then Gorgon intentionally avoided killing her. Also she just kills her in the game. Without counting the one from the spear, he killed or at least defeated 1 at 15:07(Horrible subs) and 1 at 15:17. 2 Dark Ushis. Not only that but he needed multiple of them to be stopped. Come to think about it why didnt some other Dark Ushis go after Quetz? In any case 2 Ushiwakamru for Hitachibou is too many. Molon Labe literally means "come and get them". They then throw their weapons at them. Well in the first place it is random as fuck since Gorgon never asked him to lay down his weapon. The problem is that her Rider NP doesnt list that. I know because I checked everything listed there to see how many CW animated.With the same logic there is no reason why Gil had to appear as Archer and not just be Caster and pull out Ea. And I am sure afterimages arent the same as clones. Except that they broke consistency and they do have conflicting sentences. There was no scene anyway. Gil appears and then we fight again. Sure I am certain there was no Nega Genesis that everyone failed to notice in the game but they could have done anything they wanted with the final fight.There isnt even a use of Enuma Elish in the game. Tiamat just blows up because of too much damage. Look I am not saying that what they did was good or that you have to like it. I was like "oh dear" when I say the PV so believe me I didnt want Ritsuka to be involved that much either. It wasnt the best possible climax but it was still good.Not an ep18 but still good. |
ssjokgMar 16, 2020 11:09 AM
AirConditioner said: the change in Nega-Genesis' ability seems absolutely non-sensical - which is why I'm waiting for Nasu to provide some sort of an explanation; . Also for all we know the problem could also be in the translation. It wont be the first time subs fucked it up. Archer being a guy in white. Archer's dog remark. And I am sure it was one serious mistake in Apocrypha or LE. And tbh I dont think babylonia's translation had the best script. There wer time where I had to reread lines. |
| Sorry for the triple post but I realized that I should add one more thing to the Nega Genesis stuff. Even if Merlin's explanation is what it is, Fujimaru cant be a be the one to do something since Eresh gave him her blessings. He doesnt count as a living being. So to back up what Astro said, Merlin IS the only one that can take action even if he is just an observer. So if the subs are right then this just doesnt make sense. |
| You could pretty easily explain that as Eresh either removing the Blessing or her Authority losing it's effect during her death. |
| Yeah, he lost his floating ability when he was doing that final run, so I'm pretty sure he lost the status of being ded. Though that means there was another living being in the Underworld other than Tiamat so she shouldn't have been able to die... Man, fuck that episode. |
 |
| Gramps bestowing the concept of death onto her was why she was able to be killed. |
My Queens  |
| I was under the impression she had double immortality. The causal concept "Tiamat cannot die as long as there is life that has come from her" and the actual lack of a concept of death. Gramps took care of the second, but it wouldn't matter as long as the first was still around, and vice-versa. |
-Sherou-Mar 16, 2020 4:44 PM
|
| I might have overlooked that if thats the case idk. |
My Queens |
| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's difficult to provide an explanation regarding the changes in the anime given the anime provides no semblance of an explanation to speculate anything worthwhile, but if I had to theorize... Her immortality may or may not work the way you think it does. Rather than a 'double immortality', one may just reinforce the other. As a Mother of Life, Tiamat is born without an inherent concept of 'Death' and the existence of her Paradox Restoration ability ensures that 'Death' is unable to be imposed onto her rather than work as a form of immortality. They were forced to drop Tiamat into the Underworld because her Paradox Restoration inherently rejects 'Death' (which King Hassan embodies) from touching her so when they managed to circumvent that ability, King Hassan became able impose on her and remove her immortality. Her Paradox Restoration ability rejects 'Death', which renders her incapable of 'Dying', but rather than a more literal, traditional sense of the word, it could be that the ability simply rejects the concept of 'Death' being imposed onto Tiamat's Saint Graph so under the circumstances that you're able to circumvent her Paradox Restoration and impose 'Death' onto her, which also simultaneously dropped her God-tier Saint Graph to the level of a standard Servant, it could be that Paradox Restoration becomes unable to function, i.e. it doesn't work as an ability that can make a mortal being immortal but rather an ability that ensures an immortal being cannot have the concept of 'Death' imposed on her or it could be that having her Saint Graph dropped to the level of a standard Servant just rendered Paradox Restoration ineffective. Like I said, it's difficult to explain because this is somewhat hypothetical and the anime puts us in a situation that has no precedent for an explanation, but what I'm trying to say is that Tiamat's Immortality and her Paradox Restoration are abilities that compliment one another: her Immortality makes her... well... immortal... and what Paradox Restoration does is ensure that this Law is upheld so long as Tiamat's role as a Mother is in function, i.e. so that it's impossible to impose a concept of 'Death' onto her under unnatural means. One ability removes the concept of 'Death' and makes her immortal, while the other rejects 'Death' from being imposed onto her so that the former would be upheld as an absolute - in other words it's a fail-safe. You could counter the former by just imposing 'Death' onto her, but the latter ensures that doesn't happen so it rejects any such attempts. If you shut down the later, you are now able to do that and in the circumstances that the latter re-activates after you do that, it might not be able to return the concept of Immortality she had already lost. Or it could be that it's unable to be re-activated altogether in the circumstances that her Saint Graph is dropped to that of a standard Servant because she loses her role as an Earth Mother Goddess. TL;DR; Wanna kill Tiamat? Nope, her Immortality no-sells it Okay, use Anti-Immortality weapons (Azrael) instead? Nope, her Paradox Restoration no-sells it But if you lock Paradox Restoration and become able to use Anti-Immortality weapons on her, the Paradox Restoration could end up ineffective |
AirConditionerMar 16, 2020 6:50 PM
| Tldr this entire convo |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| Tl;dr Episode 20 was bad. |
|
| I’m pretty sure episode 21 will make up for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| It was a fine shounen anime episode where the bond and friendship of our heroes save the world. |
|
AirConditioner said: Then the underworld's defenses should have punished them??You could pretty easily explain that as Eresh either removing the Blessing or her Authority losing it's effect during her death. "Archer" Gil is still around even after her death,and Tiamat is still vulnerable so the Underworld still works even without Eresh. As for Fujimaru messing up the whole plan by being alive, does he even count since he is from the future, a result of Rayshift AND a "creation" of another Primordial God? Yes I forgot who created humans in Japanese mythology. |
| The function and defenses of the Underworld are a separate thing from Ereshkigal's Authority though. They were designed to be that way before Ereshkigal was put in charge of it as the reigning God. It was originally created and designed to restrain and confine rogue Gods - such as Ishtar - so it'd work with or without Ereshkigal's presence. Although Eresh could activate or de-active and control the Underworld's function at her will due to her Authority. As for why the Underworld doesn't punish Gilgamesh... That's a good question and frankly, another change in the anime that's kinda difficult to explain. Perhaps Gilgamesh's measly B-rank Divinity spares him the extremity of the punishment imposed onto Tiamat or Ishtar due to them being full Gods, or perhaps since his entrance into the Underworld was already acknowledged as legitimate before Ereshkigal's death, he managed to circumvent the punishment after her disappearance. |
| Well for Gil it was the same in the game.He only gives a half assed explanation about how he appeared there. So the only thing Eresh did was just give them the ability to hover..... |
| @ssjokg These examples of the show taking liberties are convenient, for sure, but none of them really feel as offensive. At the end of the day, I don't really have an issue with those because they less alter events and more to make things flow smoothly and look cool and exciting in the process. I can buy Benkei surviving Lahmus because the normal ones never appeared to be that much stronger than the demonic beasts, which Benkei was shown to be able to deal with handly before. I can buy Gorgon not giving a shit about Ushi. I'm at work currently and don't have access to the episode to check these timestamps, but regardless, wouldn't be much of a last stand if he didn't manage to hold her back enough until Quetz's NP without using his. I can buy Ushi having some access to her Assassin skills because her Assassin profile says that these abilities came from her past that she just reminisced about. I can see Rider Ushi having them. Do these break consistency? A bit, yeah. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things and does it ruin those scenes? Not really, no. BTW it's ironic that all of those come from the director/producer allowing the animators and storyboarders to take liberties. I say this because Sakuga Blog wouldn't shut up about how the production of Babylonia is restrictive and that the creative staff aren't able to take creative liberties. >It wasnt the best possible climax but it was still good.Not an ep18 but still good. It pushes a lot of my iffy buttons to be able to call it good, honestly. 'Slighty above average' is the best I can give it. Episode 18 being good aside, I feel it's a tad disappointing to end a stellar production with a "merely" decent episode like this one. One that was the strongest candidate to be the best in the series, par none. The show was a sold 9/10 throughout... until this episode. Now it's an 8/10 and feeling less assured that 21 wouldn't make that a 7.5 either. |
astroprogsMar 17, 2020 9:15 AM
After AnimeJapan 2020 got canceled due to coronavirus... A stream just got announced to replace the spot they had there in 4 days. It's safe to expect trailers for Camelot, HFIII and maybe even a new anime announcement and/or LB5.2. |
astroprogsMar 17, 2020 12:54 PM
| lb5.2 for may lets go |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| I am surprised HFIII isnt postponed. I worry about it's sales if people are worried(as they should be) about the virus. |
| a mere virus wont stop weebs |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| The theater should be closing. Mine already did that. Probably trying to see how much they can go before announcing it's being delayed. |
|
| I would risk death just to see 9 fucking Bullet Revolver on the big screen. |
| Maybe they'll skip theatrical release due to the virsus, and go right for the DVD/BD release ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
|
| "Because we want to deliver the best and highest degree of the quality you came to expect from ufotable and to deliver the best viewing experience of the much anticipated final chapter of Fate/stay night, Spring Song's theatrical release will be delayed indefinitely and until further announcement. The Blu-ray release is scheduled to be 9 months after the newly scheduled theatrical release. Please be excited." - ufotable, probably. |
Not-Shinji |
|
| Grandma's be crazy |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| Completely unsurprising, though I'm surprised they haven't cancelled it in Japan yet. Aniplex release it online pls. Also Babylonia final episode teaser: https://mobile.twitter.com/FGOAP_ep7/status/1240948698999185409 MASSIVE GIANT SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK (SERIOUS) (GONE SEXUAL) |
|
-Sherou- said: MASSIVE GIANT SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK (SERIOUS) (GONE SEXUAL) Oooooh, let's see! *watches preview* |
All 10 people are devastated. -Sherou- said: Also Babylonia final episode teaser: https://mobile.twitter.com/FGOAP_ep7/status/1240948698999185409 MASSIVE GIANT SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK (SERIOUS) (GONE SEXUAL) Can't wait for Ritsuka pulling one deep line after another from his ass for 20 minutes ... and mash nodding every time. |
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/fm6tqr/fategrand_order_camelot_wandering_agateram_part_1/ |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| Youtube version: Here's the highest-quality version from the source (1080p): https://streamable.com/wm00a    Visually, it looks fine. Not as crispy as Babylonia, and this doesn't seem to have changed from the previous trailer, but I like the shot composition, so I have high hopes for the direction for this movie. Being an entire half of the story should fix some of the pacing issues in Camelot (reduce the filler, mostly) and make it feel tighter, so that's good. And they manage to make Ritsuka look sharper here, as well. In Babylonia, he kinda looked like a fuccboi. Whew August, though. We're not getting this movie on Bluray before a year from now, seems like. |
astroprogsMar 20, 2020 7:58 PM
| idk man maybe its because of the virus? <.< and if they air it in spring its gonna tank or august cause 5th aniversary |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| My train of thoughts. >Camelot Niiice. >Serenity image Oh baby I can't wait. >make it feel tighter POGCHAMP.JPG |
| Why does that blurry bloomy artstyle remind me of Apocrypha's ugly-ass artstyle? I didn't like the sameface in Babylonia but it looked way more vibrant than this. Maybe it'll look better in theatres and not in 720p with youtube's compression idk. |
|
The character designs:  -Sherou- said: Why does that blurry bloomy artstyle remind me of Apocrypha's ugly-ass artstyle? I didn't like the sameface in Babylonia but it looked way more vibrant than this. Maybe it'll look better in theatres and not in 720p with youtube's compression idk. Here's the highest-quality version from the source (1080p): https://streamable.com/wm00a It looks way less blurry than the Youtube version. |
| Latoria, Nito, and Sanzang can sit on my face anytime |
My Queens |
| man the KoTR capes are thicc af tbh beside arash they all look fine |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| Ehh, still has that weird bloom I'm not a fan of and the sketchy outlines. I like my anime outlines THICC. The Nitocris shot is probably my favorite shot in that trailer for that reason. Also holy fuck does Ritsuka need to fucking lift. Look at those twig arms. |
|
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