Do you think freedom of religion is a good thing?

Ivisire said:


then why isnt all this trouble happening in INDIA?
care to explain....? here we have islamic sharia implemented among muslims...
and please dont bring the internet crap u have been bringing so far...:)

as i was sasying, u r in clear muddy pool about islamic sharia....

u keep telling this for eternity, and i or someone will keep replying with this until eternity, because if i dont, the person who comes and reads ur last comment on this post will think u r probably ryt... in which case they too fal into the muddy pit....now....can i watch that happen? no i cant....

i dont mind u being ryt at all, but i do mind people believing the wrong stuff, because along the way u telling right things, u also said wrong things...

Rasco said:
Yes as long as they keep that shit to themselves. I don't mind door knockers.. but if religion gets special privileges then we as human beings have fucked ourselves over.

Ivisire said:
then please explain why IAM not feeling like that toward her?
and people and scholars in my region would never support this....

Ivisire said:
also...u speak as if u r concerned ....but r u really? u dont believe in anything....or do u?

all the same...the purest islam will remain unshaking till the world end....:)
its one of the prophecies....and dont go doodling in google search bar....:)

dariken said:
It's pointless to try to debate moslem. It's all taqiya. They are so in love with their shitty heretic book written by mentally ill pedophile goat herder advicing his crazy cultists to chop off limbs and crucify anyone opposing them that there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of it in their fucked up heads.

Clebardman said:


This is just bullshit and you know it. Saying "it's because they're muslim" is as delusional as saying "it has nothing to do with islam". Ultimately, religion is just a convenient tool to turn those left behind by our society against us. If this was just a matter of religion, there are plenty muslims in the middle east, there'd be no need to recruit an army amongst our unemployed youth.

spinninground said:
@TheBrainintheJar

IMO, monotheistic religions tend to be easier to bend to violence, simply because of the "the one" principle. In order to be "the one" or "the chosen" or "the true" whatever, that means everyone else has to be inferior or false, which can easily set up a negative mindset. When it crosses into race, similarly dangerous words would be "the pure" or "the strongest". Religions like Buddhism, being nontheistic, tend to be more experientially grounded, a state of being, an internal journey, that sort of thing. Of course, there could be a version where the journey consists of bathing in the blood of a million babies or something, but most societies don't tolerate that, so the peaceful religions are a lot more popular.

It doesn't help that with "one true way" religions, there is frequently already a history of violence, whether it's them doing the persecuting or the ones being persecuted. I think the model of it just leads to friction, the same way a kid would get beat up if he genuinely believed he was the only one who could .. I don't know, eat chocolate at lunch, because he has the right connections. Just as interpersonal abuse frequently leads to subsequent abuse by the former victim, in history that presents itself as the cycle of war. Sometimes a victim stands up only to become worse than the bully. It takes a lot to shake it off, and the more powerful the player, the more difficult it becomes to not fight for something that is "rightfully theirs."

I agree that some are easier to distort, but that's just the nature of things. Might as well ask why some pairings are easier to ship; you just have more material to work with. Doesn't make it more true. I'm going to say that again just so anyone who comes after can't misunderstand: just because you can more easily twist something doesn't make it worse, just more susceptible to manipulation. To follow up on my terrible metaphor that I'm indulging in because it's MAL, this means that L x Light is canonically as equally untrue as Light x Ryuk, even though it's easier to believe the first one. It may be easier to see the relation between Islam and violence, but unless that connection is in the source material, it's just humans conveniently twisting it.

(Of course, I say all this while giving common religions the benefit of the doubt because there are many peaceful practitioners. All bets are off if the canon text isn't manipulated, but just horrible to begin with. There's an amazing amount of stupid shit in holy texts. Yes, yes, I'm a blasphemer, I'm sure I'll regret it in the afterlife. )

TheBrainintheJar said:
This is an interesting perspective.

The thing is, monotheistic religions are just as contradictinary as polytheistic ones. The Tanakh, New Testament and Quran are full of contradictions.

I don't think that the terrorist 'distort' Islam. They merely follow it more rigidly. The insturctions are right there in the book. There are more verses of violence than verses of peace. Unlike the Bible (Which is presented as a collection of viewpoints. It is NOT a singular book but a collection) the Quran is meant to be present one single perspective.

I don't know much about the New Testament though.

spinninground said:
what I do reject are people who choose to believe something that leads to harming others.

Masked_Mantis said:
Check out this crazy bastard lol. It's Immahnoobs hero.

spinninground said:

Yes, as a filthy heretic who is well acquainted with the old and new testaments but not the Quran, it's full of contradictions and idiotic mandates that are either the result of human error, or the Holy Spirit really needs to do a better job transmitting it to prophets. I wouldn't want to believe in a God who can't get a holy book right any more than I want to follow a rambling, incomprehensible blog, but that's why I'll be enjoying a nice pit of lava when I die.

Whether or not "true" Islam involves terrorist activities is something I will never be able to comment on, but I will say this: when a Muslim person tells me that their religion doesn't condone violence, I believe that is their truth. And when people commit genocide in the name of Allah, I also know that that is their truth. It would be foolish of me to assume that they share the same faith despite having the same name. This is the same way I distinguish fundamentalist Mormons, or fundamentalists of any stripe, from the majority. I can't judge the truth of their religion, but I don't have to; what I do reject are people who choose to believe something that leads to harming others.

Masked_Mantis said:
@Ivisire

I see a tainted Islam worldwide, hence me posting news articles happening in Islamic countries. In the west of course we have a tainted Islam (that's why people are criticisng it). You criticise the religion, or talk about banning the burqa in public and everyone riots. You let refugees in from Syria and they rape non Muslim women. It is an issue with Muslims whether you like it or not. It's strong young men "fleeing" from Syria, while western Muslims are supposedly leaving for Syria to fight against isis according to ZA_WAYD. Wake up.

Religion doesn't deserve privileges, and we've been ignoring Islam for years and focusing on the good Muslims do. Acknowleding a serious problem within Islam today doesn't take away from the good Muslims are doing. They just need to know where they stand with criticism of their religion.

I don't criticise what you call true Muslims because it's irrelevant. There are good people worldwide of all religions.

Ivisire said:


and there! we are at square 1....

btw, by "we've been ignoring" whom are u referring to?

u dont have to criticize the principles of Islam inorder to criticize the violence.
All you need is to criticize the violent persons and organisations....thats all iam saying...get me?

u do agree there are good muslims, yet countless times you have referred to islam and all muslims entirely as wrong. but you see, then u r contradicting yourself of acknowledging good muslims....and that is what many of the posters on this thread oppose......

and i must tell u, if it was any jihadist, he would have totally gone violent and maybe even as crazy as disturb the MAL database by hacking....

but too feel very bad about u criticizing the Prophet, but what is holding us strongly back is His teachings alone. He once proclaimed, after winning one of the greatest battles, which began totally unexpectedly (when an enemy of 1000 ambushed a fellow 300 travelers including the Prophet), "This is not any significant war. The true war is against our own self."
by which he meant the true war is against our own bodily temptations, and against the disease of hearts like hatred, jealousy, lust, racial discrimination, prejudice, et cetra....

:)

Masked_Mantis said:
We're not at square one. Islam is the most dangerous ideology today because it's the final revelation. Too many Muslims believe it's the best solution to all of lifes problems, and for that reason the principles of Islam should be criticised. You just need to look to other Islamic countries to see the human rights violations shariah brings. Are you telling me they're all interpretting islam wrong? That's a lot of people who don't understand a supposedly simple book. No wonder people are scared of Islam growing so fast.

With the Muslim migrant crisis do you think they just all of sudden became rapists when they came to Europe? No, they bring rape culture with them. They've admitted they see non Muslim girls, especially blondes as worthless and sluts for not covering up. And the left wingers and governments responses are either go out in pairs, or stop being islamaphobic there is no problem. This attitude will be the reason for the Islamisation of Europe, it took me long enough to see that.

Look at all these fatwas put on people for writing books or making documentaries highlighting Islamic practices like female genital mutilation. Pedophile priests get criticised and satirised, so should thousands of Muslims who are insecure about their religion be satirised.

And by we I mean everyone. Everyone's seen what Muslims will do if you criticise Islam. The governments certainly have remained silent in fear of being seen as intolerant or racist, and that's a reason to distrust Islam too.

Ivisire said:
oh! and...@spinninground ... the lava pit wont be enjoyable at all.....like you see in the anime, movies, or from the words of satanists...:)
and besides, we dont follow God being Frightened of Hell, nor Expecting Heaven. (Atleast I dont. And i know communities that go about in million counts, who dont.)
But out of pure love alone.
i can elaborate this all day if u want.....anybody is free to send me a PM too....

TheBrainintheJar said:


The contradiction in the Bible are there because it's not a single book. It's a collection. Calling the Bible stupid for being inconsistent is like calling a short story collection plotless. You're reading it wrong.

Being a Muslim isn't anything to make one's an authority on Islam. I met plenty of ultra-religious Jews who don't understand the Bible. These are complex books.

spinninground said:
Haha thanks for offering to enlighten me, but I'm not going to lie: I may have love for my fellow humans, but I don't really feel that way about God, and I've tried. He's pretty jealous and narcissistic, and I find that difficult to love. Not to mention I find half the teachings disagreeable, and choose to live apostate regardless of whatever the truth may be concerning the fundamental existence of a higher power. But hey, he knows where to find me.

spinninground said:
Never called it stupid, I just acknowledged that it had inconsistencies, which you mentioned first. It may be a collection, but for some Christians, there is the belief that the Holy Spirit moved the writers of each book of the Bible, and so the Word comes straight from God. As for the second, yes, being Muslim doesn't give you authority on Islam, but each person has the right to define their religion and belief system. You could argue that it's not what the canon text says until you're blue in the face (and many do,) but it won't change what those people are practicing.

sobanoodle said:
I believe in the freedom to hold certain beliefs as long as they don't hurt others or break laws.

However, I don't believe in the complete freedom to practice religion. The Quran specifically tells muslims to kill unbelievers, and that it is okay to rape unbelieving women. In this case, they should not have the freedom to practice their religion. I believe in the freedom to do things like pray, have religious meetings, and freely talk about your religious beliefs though.

TheBrainintheJar said:


If every Muslim can define their religion however they want, Islam loses meaning. The reason different religions exist is because there are distinct differences between them.

Of course, some people think the Bible is the infallible word of God. That said, I know the belief that the Bible is a collection is pretty common, even among the religious (At least among Jooz. I don't know Christians). There's also evidence that the Quran was a single book, and the Bible is a collection. At this point it doesn't matter what they believe. The evidence speaks for itself.

Ivisire said:


that isnt true....proof is the begining era wen only pure islam exsted, the islamic nations conatained all religious people.....
and Prophet has taught us to help neighbours and things like that which clearly is not based on religious distinction.....


and @spinninground
@braininthejar

i saw today news on brussels attack......and i realize why even this convo is happening....



its not about muslims....its about individuals......in all religion it is like that.....people of different emotions understand things differently....

and u think each and every muslim believes differently?
nope...that isnt true....
for example the things i myself believe are believe by millions of ppl around the globe word to word....:)

well, ofcourse, if ppl are exposed to islam wen terrorists attack and a headline appears in newspaper, it sure is bound to veil the real truth about islam....that is for those who dont do actual thinking....

yeah...and i too am feeling the hate towards the terrorists much more than u all propbably.... but that doesnt render the fact that true muslims exist.....

:)