| @logic340 sounds like ur town for sure. and we might have found our scum team. the theory u said about Grrr sounds like what I tried in Camp Crystal. it's believable but who knows if stalkers are adopting my strategy lol. proceed with caution. but Grrr is better off alive than not atm. @Kit Some people said Grrr only trolls and some say he can be useful as town... so I don't know ^^; it seems like a rather risky plan and we already have 2 mislynches to analyze I've alrdy said it, 2 mislynches and 2 kills are sufficient to bypass a mislynch, or an entire string of mislynches. look at the death pattern and see who in this town behaves in such a way to avoid the related suspicions. behavioral analysis.as a freeform player, this is one of the most reliable strategies. I could pull out the gun with meta lol. but no thanks~ |
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_Claire_ said: Ruu said: They would still be your suspects if grrr flips town? (I know you are 100% sure he is, but let's think of an alternative reality for a sec.) I want to know if your suspicions are based entirely in their votes or you have seen some scummy posts from them. Coromandel yes, but I need to start looking at you, Kit and logic somehow. Phraze... I actually dont't like how he treated me. I think Soren is leaning towards town now, but I can be wrong. I have often been deceived with townish acts in the past, its so hard to look past them without any VC's analysis. Once grrr flips, I think I can be even more sure of my read. Coromandel yes what? Don't just drop names, give reasons dammit. And what do you mean you don't like how Phraze treated you (and how is that relevant/alignment-indicative)? logic340 said: Kit said: I hope the rest of the town finds this interaction insightful when they arrive in the thread. I want to look more into coro as you said earlier. I am not sure if his VCA is him just trying to look town by posting or serious. I have seen scum post vca like that in another game but I know town use the VCA as well. I already started the campfire ^^ btw we totally are getting stuff done just by having this discussion, regardless of the votes I didn't post a VCA, just an overview of players and votes. VCA means analyzing the votes, and that works best once a scum player has actually died - because you can try to figure out who tried to save them etc. |
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Phraze said: mafia are making use of the jester ratio to confuse the situation. mislynching Dono/Astros and killing Gruffin/Jack proves it. this means we should go after the most 'rational' players alive. that would be Coro/Kit/Soren/Logic. and this might come off as cheating but Soren/Rinto are the only ones concerned over my fluffposts in night phase. mislynching aa-dono/Astros + killing Gruffin/Jack = "most rational players are scummy"?? I don't understand. How do these two things tie together and prove that the players you called "most rational" are scum? What do you think of the nightkills specifically? Phraze said: @coromandel coromandel said: What makes me think Astros is scum, is how much Grave wanted dono to be lynched. I know that Grave is someone who likes to lead and pressure people, but it was day 1, her reasons for voting dono weren't all that good, but she was acting as if they were (that's the impression I got from the posts where she talks to dono, acting as if she's 100% scum). I only realized this after I re-read day 1: To me it looked like she was exaggerating just to make people vote for dono. Which something a townie wouldn't do. Add to that how she changed her vote last minute which is weird too - although I'm not sure if she really didn't want to lynch dono in the end, or if it was well-timed and she knew her vote change wouldn't be counted anymore. Not sure what that was about. + I really don't like how Astros said Grave might have tunneled on aa-dono because of her cold, and that she probably wasn't feeling energetic. She seemed very energetic to me, and this sounds like a bad excuse overall. if Coro is town and going with this reasoning, he WILL NOT vote Grrr now. only scum will do this backup reasoning to change and lynch another town later on. What do you mean here? I voted for Astros because I was convinced he's scum. How does that mean I wouldn't vote for grrr now? I already suspected both of them during day 2, and I voted for grrr first, then Astros. Phraze said: Jackrito said: If I'm wrong on this Grave case. I fully expect to be lynched tomorrow and tbh I will deserve it since, it would be clear I'm getting this whole game wrong. grrr said: By the way if I die forget everything I said except the part about coro being town. I am not sure about claire and astros. both of these posts sound very town. I'll be willing to bet on Coro being scum since Claire is clearly town. Why is Claire clearly town? And how does that mean I'm scum? o.0 And what about grrr's post makes you think he's town? |
Kit said: I believe those 3 are somewhat under the radar too, though Rinto and Soren are scrutinized for their inactivity Denja has been getting some kind of free pass. What I was saying about you is that despite not being inactive like them, you are still staying under the radar - people have not been looking at you too much it seems (until today). Your behavior has not been controversial but also not groundbreaking. You've been almost universally town read or ignored IIRC. I can't remember anyone suspecting you until today. I see, that's what you meant. Personally, I think this applies to Ruu and Claire the most. Denja is being suspected a little imo and I'm being suspected too now. Why are you expecting my posts to be groundbreaking? And why does it matter to you whether someone has been suspected or not? I don't think this alone is alignment-indicative at all. Someone can be universally town-read and actually be town, no? |
~Vote Count 3.3~ grrr(5) // Soren, Kit, coromandel, Rinto-kun, Claire Rinto-kun(3) // Ruu, grrr, Phraze Soren(2) // DenjaX, logic340 Not voting : ~ TIMER |
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious |
| @coromandel has appeared~ 1. Grave stirred things up D1, and she's pretty liberal at that sort of thing in her gameplay. I'm sure u know mafia always kill off the observant townies, keeping themselves the only voices of reason. this pattern is in play here. pitting town against town is pretty easy with this mislynch/nk pattern, more so when the majority are 'wild' players.2. Dono came off as scummy and her defense was weak. = jester/wild players NK1. Gruffin made a post analysis of Dono in an attempt to save her. she also wanted to read over my posts. NK2. Jack was prepared for a mislynch and even mentioned it. he would've compiled evidence to get back on track once his flip was proven. mafia had to silence him. = both were very observant and were gonna give vital info the next day u said Grrr came off as town D1. come D2 u say he's kind of town, so u switch to Astros. now on D3 u wanna vote him cuz..no other idea. watering down ur reading is a scummy move. and weak POE at that. Claire and Grrr at each other for 3 days. let's face it, comparing Claire hounding him and u just sheeping(or soft reading) it for 3 day phases, which one is worse? I didn't call u scum yet tho, just giving a scenario. 1. Claire is clearly town for hounding Grrr. if Grrr flips town, it would put her at a disadvantage as scum. I doubt scum would make a stupid move like that. 2. I'm not sure Grrr is town yet, but he has been a useful asset to us. mostly in his baiting. why not keep the bait alive? and if he's scum bait, all the more reason to keep him the last one standing. let him lead us to his comrades~ he promised me he'll follow my lead for rest of the game after Astros, and we were at a mess there. if he doesn't follow or if I die, we can always lynch him later. he's more useful to us alive than dead, long story short. 3. I gave u the benefit of doubt. so don't worry too much. u are sadly in POE tho. but on the bright side, it helped clear alot of us as town :3 |
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Phraze said: @coromandel has appeared~ 1. Grave stirred things up D1, and she's pretty liberal at that sort of thing in her gameplay. I'm sure u know mafia always kill off the observant townies, keeping themselves the only voices of reason. this pattern is in play here. pitting town against town is pretty easy with this mislynch/nk pattern, more so when the majority are 'wild' players.2. Dono came off as scummy and her defense was weak. = jester/wild players NK1. Gruffin made a post analysis of Dono in an attempt to save her. she also wanted to read over my posts. NK2. Jack was prepared for a mislynch and even mentioned it. he would've compiled evidence to get back on track once his flip was proven. mafia had to silence him. = both were very observant and were gonna give vital info the next day u said Grrr came off as town D1. come D2 u say he's kind of town, so u switch to Astros. now on D3 u wanna vote him cuz..no other idea. watering down ur reading is a scummy move. and weak POE at that. Claire and Grrr at each other for 3 days. let's face it, comparing Claire hounding him and u just sheeping(or soft reading) it for 3 day phases, which one is worse? I didn't call u scum yet tho, just giving a scenario. 1. Claire is clearly town for hounding Grrr. if Grrr flips town, it would put her at a disadvantage as scum. I doubt scum would make a stupid move like that. 2. I'm not sure Grrr is town yet, but he has been a useful asset to us. mostly in his baiting. why not keep the bait alive? and if he's scum bait, all the more reason to keep him the last one standing. let him lead us to his comrades~ he promised me he'll follow my lead for rest of the game after Astros, and we were at a mess there. if he doesn't follow or if I die, we can always lynch him later. he's more useful to us alive than dead, long story short. 3. I gave u the benefit of doubt. so don't worry too much. u are sadly in POE tho. but on the bright side, it helped clear alot of us as town :3 oh man, where do I begin. -__- NK1. Gruffin made a post analysis of Dono in an attempt to save her. she also wanted to read over my posts. Where was that? Pretty sure you're wrong here - Gruffin suspected dono together with grave! Which is why I was suspicious of him in the first place. I'm sure u know mafia always kill off the observant townies, keeping themselves the only voices of reason. this pattern is in play here. pitting town against town is pretty easy with this mislynch/nk pattern, more so when the majority are 'wild' players. Yes, that's what they usually do. But that doesn't explain why you're narrowing it down to those 4 players you mentioned earlier. u said Grrr came off as town D1. come D2 u say he's kind of town, so u switch to Astros. now on D3 u wanna vote him cuz..no other idea. watering down ur reading is a scummy move. and weak POE at that. Wrong again! -_- I voted for grrr at the beginning of day 2, I didn't town-read him! I only switched to Astros because I suspected him even more, and I thought these two were probably both scum at that time. My initial thought was that grr's town, but that was during D1. Then his playstyle changed from moderately town-ish and analytical at the beginning, to his usual troll-ish behavior. I first thought he's town because he seemed to analyze people's posts, but then Claire pointed out how she finds it scummy that he played differently and suddenly he switched back to his old self. This is what made me suspicious of him later, + how dono's train formed - I thought Grave was voting for dono to save grrr. Since D2, there were only these 2 main trains and Astros had quite a lot of votes on him D3 (with grrr voting for him as well) so I'm thinking grrr is scum. It's day 3, grrr escaped the lynch two days in a row and instead 2 townies were lynched. This is the only lead I have atm, and as you may have realized from other games, most of the time I suspect people based on voting patterns. Claire and Grrr at each other for 3 days. let's face it, comparing Claire hounding him and u just sheeping(or soft reading) it for 3 day phases, which one is worse? I didn't call u scum yet tho, just giving a scenario. Explain how I was "sheeping it for 3 day phases". This makes no sense. 1. Claire is clearly town for hounding Grrr. if Grrr flips town, it would put her at a disadvantage as scum. I doubt scum would make a stupid move like that. 2. I'm not sure Grrr is town yet, but he has been a useful asset to us. mostly in his baiting. why not keep the bait alive? and if he's scum bait, all the more reason to keep him the last one standing. let him lead us to his comrades~ he promised me he'll follow my lead for rest of the game after Astros, and we were at a mess there. if he doesn't follow or if I die, we can always lynch him later. he's more useful to us alive than dead, long story short. 3. I gave u the benefit of doubt. so don't worry too much. u are sadly in POE tho. but on the bright side, it helped clear alot of us as town :3 What? Why would you want to keep him alive if you don't even think he's town? This makes no sense considering that we're getting closer to losing majority. |
| @coromandel it might sound ridiculous but after us not catching 1 scum yet, it sounds fairly reasonable. and why do we wanna waste a lynch on a 'confirmed' scum? let the vig handle it. why would YOU want us to waste a lynch? I say lynch Rinto first. not interested in lynching u for the day, and u aren't even in my definite list, so don't worry too much about it. let time tell. but Rinto for president! catching scum is more important then spending the entire phase discrediting me. hah, and if I were scum I would be giving u hell by now~ at least my theory keeps ppl from squabbling and work together for once. just for one phase? <3 [edit: what I said made too sense] |
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| Good morning ~ catching up |
coromandel said: Sorry about saying VCA instead of saying VC summary. I now see that there is a difference. What are your thoughts on my other posts? What do you think about my theory on grrr's behavior?_Claire_ said: Coromandel yes, but I need to start looking at you, Kit and logic somehow. Phraze... I actually dont't like how he treated me. I think Soren is leaning towards town now, but I can be wrong. I have often been deceived with townish acts in the past, its so hard to look past them without any VC's analysis. Once grrr flips, I think I can be even more sure of my read. Coromandel yes what? Don't just drop names, give reasons dammit. And what do you mean you don't like how Phraze treated you (and how is that relevant/alignment-indicative)? logic340 said: I hope the rest of the town finds this interaction insightful when they arrive in the thread. I want to look more into coro as you said earlier. I am not sure if his VCA is him just trying to look town by posting or serious. I have seen scum post vca like that in another game but I know town use the VCA as well. I didn't post a VCA, just an overview of players and votes. VCA means analyzing the votes, and that works best once a scum player has actually died - because you can try to figure out who tried to save them etc. |
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| To everyone who said that Gruffin could be the Cop or Gruffin could be the vig. Gruffin could have also been The Holy Maiden Elaine, Vanilla Townie Let's take a more positive approach to this. I honestly think that Gruffin's actions could point to them being Vanilla. It's possible that since they had no power they were out being the most active player? I seem to remember someone talking about Vanilla's doing that since they have no power. Does anyone else think this is possible? |
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Phraze said: Rinto-kun said: You guys post the most when I'm sleeping xD. Apart from that I don't like Soren, Kit and probably Denja, I don't know Luna's playstyle but she was pretty airheaded from the beginning and that might be because she's new to playing as mafia, at least what she said seemed like what I would do. Soren on lurking and his specific way of cautious talking. He may have voted for grrr but grrr might not even be town from the looks of it and if grrr isn't mafia, the more-so Soren sticks with main trains. Currently I don't have time to explain on Kit, but he has also been really cautious about his actions. trying to build off my theory wall eh? scummy. if not u I will go with Soren. but based on usefulness, Grrr is far more useful than u are now as scum. so I will keep him alive and lynch 1 of u 2 instead. Hey, I hate myself for saying it, but I rarely remember what someone has said. And what's bad with having multiple opinions? Suggesting that there should be multiple opinions on bad and good? And I know I said that I want to lynch grrr but we should try looking at things subjectively. Why don't we try making trains on people in order to force them to participate? I'm giving ideas at least. And grrr's contribution isn't any better than mine, but he just sounds more appealing for some reason. :( |
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| I think it's Claire and this explains why Claire is pushing her train so hard (for 3 days now). |
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DenjaX said: Why are people ignoring your Meta on Soren while accepting _Claire_'s Meta on grrr?Jackrito said: I can attest Jack's meta read on Soren as mafia. He does exhibit more lurky behavior when hes mafia compared to his active and viscious scum hunter when hes town. But still, Im not a believer of metas so I am not scumreading Soren for that one. If anything, he will just be PoEd later if he continues with such behavior xDDThis is the exact way he plays as scum, he does not scumhunt because he can't fake it and will lurk. If you read his posts he has not once thought about a lynch, or who is scum.The only time was on Grave which was based off RVS, which I think was fake scum on scum interaction. I know you won't take this just on my word though. |
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Kit said: It does seem like a risky plan but it is very plausible as well. I honestly think due to her behavior that _Claire_ is the TPR. She is so focused on lynching Grrr because she has to guess the lynch correctly in order to meet her win condition. If I look at it like this her fixation with grrr makes sense. So if I take grrr and _Claire_ out of the running for scum that leaves Soren and Kit as my top suspect. logic340 said: Some people said Grrr only trolls and some say he can be useful as town... so I don't know ^^; it seems like a rather risky plan and we already have 2 mislynches to analyzeI look at things from some crazy perspectives someone tell me if this is something they have ever seen before. Grrr - I know I have said that I believe they are scum but something just feel wrong about this lynch train. I can actually see a town motive behind grrr's actions. It's almost like they are sacrificing themselves so the town can find the scum on his train. It's so easy that town will attack him and scum will follow in an attempt to get cred with the town who believe the same thing. He's been able to survive the lynches (though we have lost other town) but he's pretty much guaranteed to live through the night (unless VK) since he is a good lynch target for the third straight day now. So I know his posts are not helpful (or so it would seem) but I believe that could be by design. He can avoid being NK and get information on who is town and mafia based on peoples reaction to it. If this isn't his strategy I may make it my own mafia strategy moving forward. Soren RVS (???) aa-dono, no one really questions this vote because it was RVS (but it never moved). Soren's reasoning for not changing his vote was he had no better suspects (iirc) I find this hard to believe considering the write up he did on Grave D1. He has basically parked his vote on grrr for the last two days now and while some say his post have been constructed I have placed them in the same category as grrr. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that Soren and grrr could be employing the same strategy but Soren's behavior still just doesn't feel right to me. Stepping out to get my new phone I will be back on before phase change to add more thoughts. |
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| @Rinto-kun yes thanks for at least giving us ideas. but focusing all our attention on just 1 suspect with 4 townies down is just bad on the long run. I've put down all our possible suspects, and ur one of them. at least I won't die(in this game) with regrets, either way I die xD grrr is more useful to us alive than dead. but if u or grrr will be a mislynch, I prefer voting u instead. also, have u forgotten ur fluff appearance to vote grrr on D2, combined with calling Jack mafia? Jack's kill puts Coro in more danger than u, that's why I have my doubts about her. I'm pretty confident about u and Soren. [edit: Coro isn't out of my POE tho I have doubts tho lol] |
PhrazeNov 30, 2016 4:45 AM
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I don't want to die!!!! T_______T I hope I'm not mafia's first option D: If I am can the doctor try to save me please ? >////< Phraze said: 3. if Jack is killed. Coro is the only possible target when complications arise this makes me think Coro is town. it could be a trick tho [/spoiler] ------------- suspects: Coro Phraze <33 I was really looking forward to your theories but as always I don't understand your reasoning. Can you explain that part of your post please? It's confusing because if Coro is town (Jack died) then why is he a suspect? I know you answered Coro about this a couple of post above but I want you to explain why did you think if Jack dies = coro is town. Phraze said: I say lynch Rinto first. Yes to this!! I suspicious of Rinto and Soren right now. I think most active players are actually townies going against each other. |
Phraze said: @coromandel it might sound ridiculous but after us not catching 1 scum yet, it sounds fairly reasonable. and why do we wanna waste a lynch on a 'confirmed' scum? let the vig handle it. why would YOU want us to waste a lynch? I say lynch Rinto first. Because we need to get rid of scum power roles. If you think Grrr is "confirmed scum" then that is all the more reason to lynch him now so we have one less anti-town power role on N3. Lynching someone who is not "confirmed scum" is more of a waste of a lynch because they can turn up town, especially someone with less information to analyze if they flip town |
coromandel said: I'm not expecting your posts to be "groundbreaking" it was hyperbole. I'm saying you were not posting content that leans heavily one way or another - scummy or townish.Kit said: I believe those 3 are somewhat under the radar too, though Rinto and Soren are scrutinized for their inactivity Denja has been getting some kind of free pass. What I was saying about you is that despite not being inactive like them, you are still staying under the radar - people have not been looking at you too much it seems (until today). Your behavior has not been controversial but also not groundbreaking. You've been almost universally town read or ignored IIRC. I can't remember anyone suspecting you until today. I see, that's what you meant. Personally, I think this applies to Ruu and Claire the most. Denja is being suspected a little imo and I'm being suspected too now. Why are you expecting my posts to be groundbreaking? And why does it matter to you whether someone has been suspected or not? I don't think this alone is alignment-indicative at all. Someone can be universally town-read and actually be town, no? As to how much someone is suspected- because scum play carefully and try to look as town as possible while not helping town too much.. I gotta explain that? (edit: and because it's good not to have blind spots) You're right about Ruu (being universally townread except for by denja) but I think her behavior in general is more townie. Claire has been under suspicion by various people, and behaves rather dramatically. |
Phraze said: @coromandel it might sound ridiculous but after us not catching 1 scum yet, it sounds fairly reasonable. and why do we wanna waste a lynch on a 'confirmed' scum? let the vig handle it. why would YOU want us to waste a lynch? I say lynch Rinto first. not interested in lynching u for the day, and u aren't even in my definite list, so don't worry too much about it. let time tell. but Rinto for president! catching scum is more important then spending the entire phase discrediting me. hah, and if I were scum I would be giving u hell by now~ at least my theory keeps ppl from squabbling and work together for once. just for one phase? <3 [edit: what I said made too sense] I don't mind talking about other suspects, or pressuring several people today. While I also suspect Rinto, grrr's flip will tell me more about other players. let the vig handle it. I expected the Vig to act last night. logic340 said: To everyone who said that Gruffin could be the Cop or Gruffin could be the vig. Gruffin could have also been The Holy Maiden Elaine, Vanilla Townie Let's take a more positive approach to this. I honestly think that Gruffin's actions could point to them being Vanilla. It's possible that since they had no power they were out being the most active player? I seem to remember someone talking about Vanilla's doing that since they have no power. Does anyone else think this is possible? What you're saying sounds a little vague to me. Because not all vanilla townies will act the same way. He did post a lot, but others did too. Like Grave, who had a power role. logic340 said: Kit said: It does seem like a risky plan but it is very plausible as well. I honestly think due to her behavior that _Claire_ is the TPR. She is so focused on lynching Grrr because she has to guess the lynch correctly in order to meet her win condition. If I look at it like this her fixation with grrr makes sense. So if I take grrr and _Claire_ out of the running for scum that leaves Soren and Kit as my top suspect. Some people said Grrr only trolls and some say he can be useful as town... so I don't know ^^; it seems like a rather risky plan and we already have 2 mislynches to analyze Soren RVS (???) aa-dono, no one really questions this vote because it was RVS (but it never moved). Soren's reasoning for not changing his vote was he had no better suspects (iirc) I find this hard to believe considering the write up he did on Grave D1. He has basically parked his vote on grrr for the last two days now and while some say his post have been constructed I have placed them in the same category as grrr. I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility that Soren and grrr could be employing the same strategy but Soren's behavior still just doesn't feel right to me. Stepping out to get my new phone I will be back on before phase change to add more thoughts. I disagree with your read on Claire, tbh. I'm thinking if she was the TPR, she would have tried to conceal the fact by voting for other players as well. Kit said: Phraze said: @coromandel it might sound ridiculous but after us not catching 1 scum yet, it sounds fairly reasonable. and why do we wanna waste a lynch on a 'confirmed' scum? let the vig handle it. why would YOU want us to waste a lynch? I say lynch Rinto first. Because we need to get rid of scum power roles. If you think Grrr is "confirmed scum" then that is all the more reason to lynch him now so we have one less anti-town power role on N3. Lynching someone who is not "confirmed scum" is more of a waste of a lynch because they can turn up town, especially someone with less information to analyze if they flip town +1 |
Kit said: And how has grrr been confirmed scum?Phraze said: @coromandel it might sound ridiculous but after us not catching 1 scum yet, it sounds fairly reasonable. and why do we wanna waste a lynch on a 'confirmed' scum? let the vig handle it. why would YOU want us to waste a lynch? I say lynch Rinto first. Because we need to get rid of scum power roles. If you think Grrr is "confirmed scum" then that is all the more reason to lynch him now so we have one less anti-town power role on N3. Lynching someone who is not "confirmed scum" is more of a waste of a lynch because they can turn up town, especially someone with less information to analyze if they flip town |
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logic340 said: I ddnt say about accepting anyones meta and I dont believe in people metas in general. I know grrr trolls alot and claire always hellbent on anyone but those doesnt affect my judgement about their alignment. Its all about whether their actions are town motivated or scum motivated.DenjaX said: Why are people ignoring your Meta on Soren while accepting _Claire_'s Meta on grrr?I can attest Jack's meta read on Soren as mafia. He does exhibit more lurky behavior when hes mafia compared to his active and viscious scum hunter when hes town. But still, Im not a believer of metas so I am not scumreading Soren for that one. If anything, he will just be PoEd later if he continues with such behavior xDD |
DenjaX said: I didnt say you were accepting meta. Kit seems to have accepted _Claire_'s meta on grrr while your meta on Soren is not being discussed. It's just something I noticed is all.logic340 said: I ddnt say about accepting anyones meta and I dont believe in people metas in general. I know grrr trolls alot and claire always hellbent on anyone but those doesnt affect my judgement about their alignment. Its all about whether their actions are town motivated or scum motivated.Why are people ignoring your Meta on Soren while accepting _Claire_'s Meta on grrr? |
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Phraze said: @Rinto-kun yes thanks for at least giving us ideas. but focusing all our attention on just 1 suspect with 4 townies down is just bad on the long run. I've put down all our possible suspects, and ur one of them. at least I won't die(in this game) with regrets, either way I die xD grrr is more useful to us alive than dead. but if u or grrr will be a mislynch, I prefer voting u instead. also, have u forgotten ur fluff appearance to vote grrr on D2, combined with calling Jack mafia? Jack's kill puts Coro in more danger than u, that's why I have my doubts about her. I'm pretty confident about u and Soren. [edit: Coro isn't out of my POE tho I have doubts tho lol] I'm pretty sure I did not call Jack mafia, though you're right that I thought his play was more than suspicious. Also I don't get how you think he is actually useful, unless as a vote, at which he also fails. Suggesting the vigilante do the rest is not a bad idea, but we have to decide on who to shoot. I figure it's not you cuz if that's the case I would've been long dead. Also I just said that we should focus on multiple people here > Rinto-kun said: Phraze said: trying to build off my theory wall eh? scummy. if not u I will go with Soren. but based on usefulness, Grrr is far more useful than u are now as scum. so I will keep him alive and lynch 1 of u 2 instead. Hey, I hate myself for saying it, but I rarely remember what someone has said. And what's bad with having multiple opinions? Suggesting that there should be multiple opinions on bad and good? And I know I said that I want to lynch grrr but we should try looking at things subjectively. Why don't we try making trains on people in order to force them to participate? I'm giving ideas at least. And grrr's contribution isn't any better than mine, but he just sounds more appealing for some reason. :( |
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logic340 said: That's not my point. I'm telling phraze her reasons for keeping Grrr around (if she truly believes Grrr is scum) are flawed. If you want to argue about using the term "confirmed" then ask phraze about it.Kit said: And how has grrr been confirmed scum?Because we need to get rid of scum power roles. If you think Grrr is "confirmed scum" then that is all the more reason to lynch him now so we have one less anti-town power role on N3. Lynching someone who is not "confirmed scum" is more of a waste of a lynch because they can turn up town, especially someone with less information to analyze if they flip town In the most literal sense, he is not "confirmed" anything. |
logic340 said: I am not voting Grrr based on meta.DenjaX said: I didnt say you were accepting meta. Kit seems to have accepted _Claire_'s meta on grrr while your meta on Soren is not being discussed. It's just something I noticed is all.I ddnt say about accepting anyones meta and I dont believe in people metas in general. I know grrr trolls alot and claire always hellbent on anyone but those doesnt affect my judgement about their alignment. Its all about whether their actions are town motivated or scum motivated. |
logic340 said: coromandel said: Sorry about saying VCA instead of saying VC summary. I now see that there is a difference. What are your thoughts on my other posts? What do you think about my theory on grrr's behavior?Coromandel yes what? Don't just drop names, give reasons dammit. And what do you mean you don't like how Phraze treated you (and how is that relevant/alignment-indicative)? I didn't post a VCA, just an overview of players and votes. VCA means analyzing the votes, and that works best once a scum player has actually died - because you can try to figure out who tried to save them etc. I don't really agree with some of your reads, like how you think Phraze is town and Claire TPR. Though I do think Soren could be scum. logic340 said: I look at things from some crazy perspectives someone tell me if this is something they have ever seen before. Grrr - I know I have said that I believe they are scum but something just feel wrong about this lynch train. I can actually see a town motive behind grrr's actions. It's almost like they are sacrificing themselves so the town can find the scum on his train. It's so easy that town will attack him and scum will follow in an attempt to get cred with the town who believe the same thing. He's been able to survive the lynches (though we have lost other town) but he's pretty much guaranteed to live through the night (unless VK) since he is a good lynch target for the third straight day now. So I know his posts are not helpful (or so it would seem) but I believe that could be by design. He can avoid being NK and get information on who is town and mafia based on peoples reaction to it. If this isn't his strategy I may make it my own mafia strategy moving forward. You are definitely right that his lack of helpfulness is probably by design. But I'm not sure sacrificing himself is his main objective. He tends to behave anti-town in every game and that has a few advantages. One of them is that the mafia leaves him alone in games where he's town. Second reason is that, when you always act anti-town, you can get away with a lot as scum. The problem is: he always plays the same way (regardless of alignment) which makes him extremely hard to read. And in our case, he's survived two days by now. If scum were voting for him together with townies, then why is he still alive? What feels wrong about the train to you? |
| @coromandel "I disagree with your read on Claire, tbh. I'm thinking if she was the TPR, she would have tried to conceal the fact by voting for other players as well." I guess both options are possible but in occam's razor world which on takes the least amount of assumptions? The one that makes more sense to me is Claire is TPR since it pretty much explains her fixation. |
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Kit said: Yes I understand that but you do accept the meta read don't you? Yes or no?logic340 said: I am not voting Grrr based on meta.I didnt say you were accepting meta. Kit seems to have accepted _Claire_'s meta on grrr while your meta on Soren is not being discussed. It's just something I noticed is all. |
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coromandel said: As I have stated before I feel that grrr and Claire could be a town v town situation or even town vs tpr now. If that is the case why does scum need to jump on the train? The don't they can let the town do the work for them. Scum could be sitting back doing other things for 3 days while the town is running around fighting each other over it.logic340 said: Sorry about saying VCA instead of saying VC summary. I now see that there is a difference. What are your thoughts on my other posts? What do you think about my theory on grrr's behavior? I don't really agree with some of your reads, like how you think Phraze is town and Claire TPR. Though I do think Soren could be scum. logic340 said: I look at things from some crazy perspectives someone tell me if this is something they have ever seen before. Grrr - I know I have said that I believe they are scum but something just feel wrong about this lynch train. I can actually see a town motive behind grrr's actions. It's almost like they are sacrificing themselves so the town can find the scum on his train. It's so easy that town will attack him and scum will follow in an attempt to get cred with the town who believe the same thing. He's been able to survive the lynches (though we have lost other town) but he's pretty much guaranteed to live through the night (unless VK) since he is a good lynch target for the third straight day now. So I know his posts are not helpful (or so it would seem) but I believe that could be by design. He can avoid being NK and get information on who is town and mafia based on peoples reaction to it. If this isn't his strategy I may make it my own mafia strategy moving forward. You are definitely right that his lack of helpfulness is probably by design. But I'm not sure sacrificing himself is his main objective. He tends to behave anti-town in every game and that has a few advantages. One of them is that the mafia leaves him alone in games where he's town. Second reason is that, when you always act anti-town, you can get away with a lot as scum. The problem is: he always plays the same way (regardless of alignment) which makes him extremely hard to read. And in our case, he's survived two days by now. If scum were voting for him together with townies, then why is he still alive? What feels wrong about the train to you? |
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| @coromandel "What feels wrong about the train to you?" it has formed to easily the last two day. Ther is little opposition to it. Kit says keep searching but is content to leave his vote in one place for an entire phase. These things feel unnatural if we are truly searching for grrr's scum buddies as well. Where does the pressure on others come from if we all vote grrr right now? |
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logic340 said: @coromandel "I disagree with your read on Claire, tbh. I'm thinking if she was the TPR, she would have tried to conceal the fact by voting for other players as well." I guess both options are possible but in occam's razor world which on takes the least amount of assumptions? The one that makes more sense to me is Claire is TPR since it pretty much explains her fixation. I'm worried it's a trick, so I'm not town-reading her. If I was the TPR, I wouldn't want people to know. |
coromandel said: I've only been town so I only have that mindset for now I guess, which is why I have been coming up with these theories to make people think outside their comfort zone.logic340 said: @coromandel "I disagree with your read on Claire, tbh. I'm thinking if she was the TPR, she would have tried to conceal the fact by voting for other players as well." I guess both options are possible but in occam's razor world which on takes the least amount of assumptions? The one that makes more sense to me is Claire is TPR since it pretty much explains her fixation. I'm worried it's a trick, so I'm not town-reading her. If I was the TPR, I wouldn't want people to know. |
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| It makes sense that Claire is TRP because if she predicted grrr to be lynch and we know lynch him, she wins :/ I wish the cop could be more useful at this point. I haven't seen any posts that suggested someone might be cop. I know that it's better that they stay under the radar so mafia won't kill them but still... some kind of clue would be nice xD If grrr flips town I think that maybe Denja is town too because they have similar playstyles. Maybe they both behave scummy no matter their alignment. ( I can't believe I'm defending the person who thinks I'm scum >_> ) I think it was @Kit that said it was strange that mafia killed Jack because he was perfect for a mislynch. Could it be that they didn't think of that possibility because they are not paying attention to the game? That's another reason why I think Rinto is scum. I would like to built a train on Rinto to put pressure on them and get him out of the neutral/ scummy zone. Even if grrr is lynched I think it will wake him up. As always I don't understand nor agree with Phraze theories. But I've been wrong about her before so for now she is neutral to me. Kit is the only town read I have (100%) ; logic is townish at this point; and with coro I go back and forth... |
logic340 said: oh you quoted me I thought you were addressing it to me xDD Anyway, you seemed to be the only logical person here so I want to ask you something:DenjaX said: I didnt say you were accepting meta. Kit seems to have accepted _Claire_'s meta on grrr while your meta on Soren is not being discussed. It's just something I noticed is all.I ddnt say about accepting anyones meta and I dont believe in people metas in general. I know grrr trolls alot and claire always hellbent on anyone but those doesnt affect my judgement about their alignment. Its all about whether their actions are town motivated or scum motivated. We know that TPR can be up to no good if TPR chooses a town name for guessing and looking at the bandwagons, it seems like TPR chose grrr for 2 nights now. We always see the same people on the bandwagon. If you think about it, TPR is like executioner role. Is TPR worth lynching? I think not thats why it bothers me that same people going for the same person over again. Since you know that TPR isnt worth lynching, what do you think about the possibility of mafia trying to screen themsevles as TPR to prevent suspicion? You see Claire as TPR but I see Soren/Kit more of a TPR (strong for Soren). TPR has no control for them due to TPRs restriction of claiming. If you ask me, TPR got hit more with anti claiming rule since if real TPR claims, it is as good as already losing the game. Stripping off his role basically means that he can no longer guess which is the win condition. Thats why I can imagine mafias trying to exploit this and thats why we always see same people on train. On the other hand, it is possible for town doing it as well so that mafias will be less likely to kill them since they might be TPR. What do you think? |
logic340 said: @coromandel "What feels wrong about the train to you?" it has formed to easily the last two day. Ther is little opposition to it. Kit says keep searching but is content to leave his vote in one place for an entire phase. These things feel unnatural if we are truly searching for grrr's scum buddies as well. Where does the pressure on others come from if we all vote grrr right now? Not everybody has voted for him. Yes the train built easily but somehow the last few hours, he was saved. You did not notice it? Ok. |
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| @coromandel since we cannot hard claim I take it to mean that the person cannot come out and say "I found this last night", "I did this last night", "I protected so and so last night", etc is this type of thinking correct? |
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logic340 said: @coromandel since we cannot hard claim I take it to mean that the person cannot come out and say "I found this last night", "I did this last night", "I protected so and so last night", etc is this type of thinking correct? No its claiming already. Also this might sound dumb s but can someone links me to a post were they read Rinto as scum? |
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| @logic340 would you like to vote for Rinto? I think that if they see that they weren't lynch just for one vote they would get worry and be more active. I want a proper read >_< Soren also worries me thou... |
logic340 said: @coromandel "What feels wrong about the train to you?" it has formed to easily the last two day. Ther is little opposition to it. Kit says keep searching but is content to leave his vote in one place for an entire phase. These things feel unnatural if we are truly searching for grrr's scum buddies as well. Where does the pressure on others come from if we all vote grrr right now? But on both days other players were lynched instead of him. This game feels different than others, because of the TPR/claiming mechanics. Usually (in other games) we pressure several players throughout the day and get information out of all of them. We could for example vote for Rinto now to get him to claim, and change our votes to grrr at the end of the phase. Problem is, no one has claimed so far and with the 'magic number' going down each phase, it's unlikely voting someone else will give us anything new to chew on. I want to see grrr flip now. Once he's confirmed scum I can finally do a good vca - because almost everyone has given their stance on grrr, so we've got a lot of material to analyze. |
_Claire_ said: I am asking a question not making a statement that is why the word "IF" is in the sentence it serves to show that I am not certain. I know everyone didn't vote for grrr or we wouldn't be talking about him anymore. I am saying with soren kit you all parked (with possibly more to come) there where is the pressure on others come from if people feel they can just switch to grrr to save themselves?logic340 said: @coromandel "What feels wrong about the train to you?" it has formed to easily the last two day. Ther is little opposition to it. Kit says keep searching but is content to leave his vote in one place for an entire phase. These things feel unnatural if we are truly searching for grrr's scum buddies as well. Where does the pressure on others come from if we all vote grrr right now? Not everybody has voted for him. Yes the train built easily but somehow the last few hours, he was saved. You did not notice it? Ok. |
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DenjaX said: If that theory holds true then _Claire_ is scum. I get the feeling that Soren could be TPR now that I think about it. His behavior imo seems similar to that of grrr's. It's obviously deliberate which is what I have found scummy about his play so far. I wouldn't mind looking at Kit since based on my grrr theory and the way I felt about him D1, plus his protection of Soren (which seems unwarranted since Soren is also one of Kit's suspects right now). That Kit could very well be Mafia and has kind of dug himself a hole.logic340 said: oh you quoted me I thought you were addressing it to me xDD Anyway, you seemed to be the only logical person here so I want to ask you something:I didnt say you were accepting meta. Kit seems to have accepted _Claire_'s meta on grrr while your meta on Soren is not being discussed. It's just something I noticed is all. We know that TPR can be up to no good if TPR chooses a town name for guessing and looking at the bandwagons, it seems like TPR chose grrr for 2 nights now. We always see the same people on the bandwagon. If you think about it, TPR is like executioner role. Is TPR worth lynching? I think not thats why it bothers me that same people going for the same person over again. Since you know that TPR isnt worth lynching, what do you think about the possibility of mafia trying to screen themsevles as TPR to prevent suspicion? You see Claire as TPR but I see Soren/Kit more of a TPR (strong for Soren). TPR has no control for them due to TPRs restriction of claiming. If you ask me, TPR got hit more with anti claiming rule since if real TPR claims, it is as good as already losing the game. Stripping off his role basically means that he can no longer guess which is the win condition. Thats why I can imagine mafias trying to exploit this and thats why we always see same people on train. On the other hand, it is possible for town doing it as well so that mafias will be less likely to kill them since they might be TPR. What do you think? Unovte I have some things to think about right now. |
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_Claire_ said: Also this might sound dumb s but can someone links me to a post were they read Rinto as scum? give me a minute and I will tell you why I think Rinto is scum. |
logic340 said: Ok. Yes, somewhat. I also accepted the meta reads on Soren. In both cases meta is not top priority.Kit said: Yes I understand that but you do accept the meta read don't you? Yes or no?I am not voting Grrr based on meta. |
Ruu said: TPR has to guess correctly 3 times, if Claire is TPR she's at zero because no Grrr lynch yesterday.It makes sense that Claire is TRP because if she predicted grrr to be lynch and we know lynch him, she wins :/ |
coromandel said: Kit said: I believe those 3 are somewhat under the radar too, though Rinto and Soren are scrutinized for their inactivity Denja has been getting some kind of free pass. What I was saying about you is that despite not being inactive like them, you are still staying under the radar - people have not been looking at you too much it seems (until today). Your behavior has not been controversial but also not groundbreaking. You've been almost universally town read or ignored IIRC. I can't remember anyone suspecting you until today. I see, that's what you meant. Personally, I think this applies to Ruu and Claire the most. Denja is being suspected a little imo and I'm being suspected too now. Why are you expecting my posts to be groundbreaking? And why does it matter to you whether someone has been suspected or not? I don't think this alone is alignment-indicative at all. Someone can be universally town-read and actually be town, no? Yes I agree with Kit's post (even tho I think she has not been pressured too). Yes but I have seen you playing as scum Coro, I never thought you were scum and you did. I played with Arri, she was ignored until day 6 or 7 and I got lynched instead (wayway back). She acted very townish thats how I realized that good players know how to fake scum-hunt. |
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Even fake roleclaim is considered a role-claim right? |
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Kit said: Ruu said: TPR has to guess correctly 3 times, if Claire is TPR she's at zero because no Grrr lynch yesterday.It makes sense that Claire is TRP because if she predicted grrr to be lynch and we know lynch him, she wins :/ if she guessed (last night) that grrr was getting lynch today, is 1 point for her right? I think TPR would try to tunnel people :/ |
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