Which do you prefer?
Only subs - original audio is best.
45.9%
1,121
Mostly subbed, some dubbed.
29.7%
725
Only dubbed - I like it in my native language.
2.3%
57
Mostly dubbed, some subbed.
8.0%
195
Both subbed and dubbed equally.
11.5%
280
Raw.
2.6%
64
2,442 votes
| Watching dubs first or only don't stop some from stinking. |
 |
| I prefer dubs in anime if it is done after the 80s, since pre-90s dubs are horrible. |
Anime_Name said: Except that most DVD subs/official subs are even more localized than fansubs. Most dubs I've watched are pretty much the same as the official subs. Yes, some words are different, but the implied meaning (and the amount of localization) is mostly the same.You seem to be hinting at fansubs being the only avenue for people to watch subs. Let's pretend when the question sub v dub comes up people are referring to both the dub on the DVD and the sub on the DVD. Subs are only one layer of translating words and grammar from one language to the another. With dubs you not only deal with translations but localizations and depending on the studio - light to heavy changes in the script/plot/story. |
| The whole sub v dub debate only exists because of official dubs so for the most part the most logical sub in comparison would be the official one. If clouding the issue with fansubs is fair then people could also bring in stances on fandubs. I tried not to confuse the matter by adding in anecdotal evidence like saying "Most of the dubs I have seen do xyz." because most of the anime I have seen does not mount to most of the anime available. If you are coming across localization(the act of changing and replacing culture) in most of the subtitles then have some very bad subs or very old subs. I noted that depending on the studio the changes vary. Is there any statement in my post that is inaccurate or wrong? |
|
| DBZ english dubbed , anything else subbed. |
 |
| Mainly subs, because most of the anime I watch isnt dubbed anyway, but I do watch dubs for some, especially if I'm watching it with my mum because she doesn't like reading off the t.v. ... |
Anime_Name said: Nothing wrong with this.The whole sub v dub debate only exists because of official dubs so for the most part the most logical sub in comparison would be the official one. If clouding the issue with fansubs is fair then people could also bring in stances on fandubs. Anime_Name said: Of course, but then again, have you seen "most of the anime available"? I can't tell from your list, it's too small.I tried not to confuse the matter by adding in anecdotal evidence like saying "Most of the dubs I have seen do xyz." because most of the anime I have seen does not mount to most of the anime available. Anime_Name said: Same as dubs. What I've seen that is. As I said, what I've seen, official dubs and subs pretty much are saying the same thing, only the wordings are different sometimes. Do I get what they're saying? Yes. Do I lose anything pertaining to the plot/character development? No.If you are coming across localization(the act of changing and replacing culture) in most of the subtitles then have some very bad subs or very old subs. |
| Subs are usually better and prefered. But some anime like Gundam SEED, and Trinity Blood, I did like the eng dub version more. |
 |
| Mostly sub but I like to watch dubs sometimes :) |
| Mostly sub but I like to watch dubs sometimes :) |
Of course, but then again, have you seen "most of the anime available"? I can't tell from your list, it's too small. Like I said, I try to avoid making arguments that use the phrase "Most anime I have seen...blah blah blah." because that claim is just an expression using a fishbowl to comment on the ocean. My list has nothing to do with subs v dubs, i.e the topic at hand. No matter how many shows I choose to put on my list my opinion on sub v dub neither gains or loses credit. Same as dubs. What I've seen that is. As I said, what I've seen, official dubs and subs pretty much are saying the same thing, only the wordings are different sometimes. Do I get what they're saying? Yes. Do I lose anything pertaining to the plot/character development? No. Then bully for you but there are dubs that do change plot/character development and/or there are people that may not be as tolerant as you are with localization. Some dubs do not change anything when translating other than some grammar and there are dubs that change a lot of things like locale, speech tics/accents, and add/remove elements of the story. The experiences you are claiming on prove the former and in no way disprove the latter. |
|
Onibokusu said: I wonder why I even bothered arguing in this thread... 1. New fans come in. 2. New fans claim nihongo to be the best language ever and that reading English fansubs are the only way to go (be it they have styled karaoke, or that they're not the 'big businesses', or that they're 'by fans, for fans'). 3. New fans mature 4. New fans, now just fans, realise that some dubs are fine 5. Some time passes 6. The Fans realise that both English subs and English dubs are fine and that neither is really better than the other. 4kids isn't the rule when it comes to English adaptations, and fansubs aren't the only source of subtitled anime out there. It's all a matter of preference. 7. The Fans realise that they've been arguing an entirely pointless debate. That is a lot of leaping and bounding you are doing trying to make this seem like an issue for new fans alone and that new fans only have one preference when starting into anime. |
|
Anime_Name said: Then that means your argument is not more credible than I am. Even if you don't write it, your arguments are also based on what you have seen. The difference is only that I explicitly stated that my arguments are based on what I have seen, but you don't. Like I said, I try to avoid making arguments that use the phrase "Most anime I have seen...blah blah blah." because that claim is just an expression using a fishbowl to comment on the ocean. My list has nothing to do with subs v dubs, i.e the topic at hand. No matter how many shows I choose to put on my list my opinion on sub v dub neither gains or loses credit. Anime_Name said: 4Kids and many older shows aside, can you name occasions where the dubs are much more localized or detracts from the plot or add/remove elements of the story compared to the official subs? If you can, do provide the official subs dialogue, dubs dialogue, and the Japanese dialogues (if you can) so I can check against the original dialogue.Then bully for you but there are dubs that do change plot/character development and/or there are people that may not be as tolerant as you are with localization. Some dubs do not change anything when translating other than some grammar and there are dubs that change a lot of things like locale, speech tics/accents, and add/remove elements of the story. The experiences you are claiming on prove the former and in no way disprove the latter. |
RedSuiseiJan 19, 2011 3:41 PM
Then that means your argument is not more credible than I am. Even if you don't write it, your arguments are also based on what you have seen. The difference is only that I explicitly stated that my arguments are based on what I have seen, but you don't. I made a statement that covers the wide array of how companies do their dubs and subs with needing anecdotal evidence. My statement stands on its own as an objective observation despite you attempts to poison the well, as it were. 4Kids and many older shows aside, can you name occasions where the dubs are much more localized or detracts from the plot or add/remove elements of the story compared to the official subs? If you can, do provide the official subs dialogue, dubs dialogue, and the Japanese dialogues (if you can) so I can check against the original dialogue I could but those examples being subjective, you being a cantankerous agent of contention, and this being MAL the probability of us coming to agreement on said detractions are abysmally low. Also you saying you have no problem with bringing fan dubs into this but attempt to limit my responses to exclude older dubs and 4kids show it is obvious you are trying to steer away from examples the clearly show the statement "some studios do heavy localization and some studio do light localization." to be an accurate observation of the dubbing studios in America. |
|
Onibokusu said: Anime_Name said: That is a lot of leaping and bounding you are doing trying to make this seem like an issue for new fans alone and that new fans only have one preference when starting into anime. The thing is bud, they mostly do. If their exposure to anime is through something that is like the cesspool that is MAL, that will be their definite starting opinion. Welcome to 2011. You seem to be only on step 4. Sorry Sis but your fictitious 7-step program does not apply to me. I have experienced a really round-about relationship with anime, Nippon, dubs, and subs that your 7-step assumptions do not represent. |
|
| I'm one of those who won't watch anything, but originals. And because anime isn't even dubbed in my own language it's easier to read the text than to figure out what the english actors are saying. |
Anime_Name said: Objective? Please, stop saying you're being "objective" when we are talking about something highly subjective. You saying "Dub X is shitty" doesn't mean it's objectively shitty, as some people can still say it's good. Your statements are not objective, and are still based upon what you've seen. No different from mine, despite you attempts to beautify yours.I made a statement that covers the wide array of how companies do their dubs and subs with needing anecdotal evidence. My statement stands on its own as an objective observation despite you attempts to poison the well, as it were. Anime_Name said: I could but those examples being subjective, you being a cantankerous agent of contention, and this being MAL the probability of us coming to agreement on said detractions are abysmally low. Also you saying you have no problem with bringing fan dubs into this but attempt to limit my responses to exclude older dubs and 4kids show it is obvious you are trying to steer away from examples the clearly show the statement "some studios do heavy localization and some studio do light localization." to be an accurate observation of the dubbing studios in America. Did I ever said I want to bring fandubs into argument? In case you don't know, my first response was to point out that you saying official subs are not localized is wrong, seeing that a lot of people do complain at the official subs being too localized (and they are). You were the first one to bring fandub into argument. Stop twisting the facts. While it's true that most of those older dubs/4kids are shitty, what's the difference with the older/bad official subs? Quoting what you said earlier: Anime_Name said: So, where's the difference with very bad dubs and very old dubs?If you are coming across localization(the act of changing and replacing culture) in most of the subtitles then have some very bad subs or very old subs. |
| Most of the time it's subs but there are some good dubs like Cowboy Bebop, Utena (I thought the English brought more comedy to it the Japanese one was more dramatic), Excel Saga, Hellsing are just a few I can think of. Although most of the time I feel Japanese voice actors tend to do a better job portraying emotions (probably because there are much more people interested in doing VA work in Japan than there are in the US) but dubs aren't always bad. |
Objective? Please, stop saying you're being "objective" when we are talking about something highly subjective. You saying "Dub X is shitty" doesn't mean it's objectively shitty, as some people can still say it's good. Your statements are not objective, and are still based upon what you've seen. No different from mine, despite you attempts to beautify yours. When someone starts twisting my words and adding things that I did not say, that is the time I start narrowing conversations to very small, specific points. Me saying some dub studios do a lot of localization while other do lighter localization is not me saying "Dub X is shitty." What I did say is an objective statement which does not have a hint of bias to it. Did I ever said I want to bring fandubs into argument? In case you don't know, my first response was to point out that you saying official subs are not localized is wrong, seeing that a lot of people do complain at the official subs being too localized (and they are). You were the first one to bring fandub into argument. Stop twisting the facts. What I said about fan dubs was not me bringing them in but saying if fansubs were going to be brought up into the the dub v sub debate then fandubs were also valid, you then said you saw no problem. The questionable part was you wanting me to give examples of bad localization but telling me to exclude 4kids and older anime from the very same conversation. Your only point has been that official subs can also be localized everything has was you putting words in my mouth and trying to drag my statement down with your subjectivity. Let me edit my post to accommodate your sole point. Subs are mostly just translating words and grammar from one language to the another and possibly some localization. But with dubs you not only deal with translations and possible localizations depending on the studio there can also be light to heavy changes in the script/plot/story. Before or after my editing this statement is still a valid observation to explain Fuzzhx that there are just minor differences between subs since subs are mostly just translations and grammar. |
|
Anime_Name said: That wasn't intended at just this current argument. I'm referring to every single time you felt the need to bash anyone who said "Dub X is good" just becausee you find it bad.When someone starts twisting my words and adding things that I did not say, that is the time I start narrowing conversations to very small, specific points. Me saying some dub studios do a lot of localization while other do lighter localization is not me saying "Dub X is shitty." What I did say is an objective statement which does not have a hint of bias to it. Of course, some dubs are more localized than others. But then again, some subs are also more localized than others. That doesn't make subs objectively better than dubs. Anime_Name said: What I said about fan dubs was not me bringing them in but saying if fansubs were going to be brought up into the the dub v sub debate then fandubs were also valid, you then said you saw no problem. The questionable part was you wanting me to give examples of bad localization but telling me to exclude 4kids and older anime from the very same conversation. That was my bad. What I meant was that I agree that fandubs shouldn't be included. Still, we all know that older dubs tend to be heavily censored. Does that mean recent dubs still do the same? I don't give a damn about how they were in the past if they have done good things currently. Anime_Name said: Perhaps I am being subjective. Doesn't make you objective. Anyone can clearly see your bias towards dubs.Your only point has been that official subs can also be localized everything has was you putting words in my mouth and trying to drag my statement down with your subjectivity. Anime_Name said: Yes, there can be light modifications in the script/plot/story, that was the thing in the past. Does this still happen nowadays? I know a lot of those cases happen back then when censoring is still ridiculously heavy, which is why I'm asking you to provide examples of newer anime, since I don't know of any. Oh and, how do you know how the translating works? You work in a licensing company?Let me edit my post to accommodate your sole point. Subs are mostly just translating words and grammar from one language to the another and possibly some localization. But with dubs you not only deal with translations and possible localizations depending on the studio there can also be light to heavy changes in the script/plot/story. Before or after my editing this statement is still a valid observation to explain Fuzzhx that there are just minor differences between subs since subs are mostly just translations and grammar. |
RedSuiseiJan 19, 2011 5:54 PM
Oh and, how do you know how the translating works? You work in a licensing company? Do I need to be someone like Dan Kanemitsu to understand that translating consists of changing words and grammar from one language to another? No I do not. Of course, some dubs are more localized than others. But then again, some subs are also more localized than others. That doesn't make subs objectively better than dubs. It was only meant to point out some differences for Fuzzhx and that post was not used to say whether or not subs or dubs are better. It is nice you know my current opinion on subs and dubs but I am still capable of making objective observations like the one directed towards Fuzzhx. |
|
| I prefer dubbed. Some actually do a good job like with Trigun, and Fullmetal Alchemist. I also watch them subbed too, but i think dub is the winner for me. Not to forget about Neon Genesis Evangelion, now look me in the eye and say that they didn't do a fine job dubbing that series. |
MyNameSucksJan 19, 2011 10:17 PM
| Why Onibokusu, you clearly have it backwards. We have new fans coming in thinking dubs are a valid option, their opinion colored by whatever silly dub they have seen on TV. Then they watch more and their opinion gets more refined and they realize, hey, dubs are not all that good after all and start realizing the greatness of the Grand Empire of Nihon and abandon their silly dubwatching ways. |
| Only subbed for me, though I do find the US dubbed Dragonball Z version to be far superior to the original so I may be wrong here. For now, I'll stick to the subs. |
iSee said: Only subbed for me, though I do find the US dubbed Dragonball Z version to be far superior to the original so I may be wrong here. For now, I'll stick to the subs. ya i find the stuff i watch in english as a kid like DB better in english, most likely because it's the language ive been watching DB since the beginning. everything else is jap Dub for me. |
| . |
| Mostly japanese dubs, for some reason english dubs sounds weird to me. This is just my opinion on the matter. |
Onibokusu said: How do I have it backwards? You didn't detail my seven step program in reverse at all. You added more words, changed the meaning of some steps, and completely changed others. Also, >Thinking dubs are a valid option How cute, it's like I'm talking to a WWII veteran about their opinion on Japanese products. Uh, how about not being so stuck on your 7-step program, while it clearly is something you spent a lot of your time on and is a great product unlike which your mind has never produced before, it's not all that grand. But the idea of it all is reverse because from my experience people who are new to anime are often quite likely to be people who have seen some random dubs on TV, which is quite contradictous with your stating that new people sign for the glory of nihongo. Unless by new you just meant people who you've never seen before which is a rather odd standard to use here. I have no intention of starting to use any silly 7-step programs to describe things, just how high would you have to be to do something like that. My grandpa is a WWII veteran and he happily owned a Japanese car, hurfdurf |
| Hehe, I like the 7-step program. Of course it's not universal, but it probably applies to a bunch of people. Though I'll agree that there are also many cases who start off with dubs and then get japanized. Anyway I'm proud to say I started out with step 6 ^^. And in the end it doesn't matter how you did it, if you end up agreeing with step 7, which is just so true. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| My program would be 1. Enjoys anime the way whatever suits for themselves. Though I like to see others arguing about subs/dubs. Another way to kill time if bored. |
PeacegoawayJan 20, 2011 2:51 PM
Onibokusu said: Sitha said: Uh, how about not being so stuck on your 7-step program, while it clearly is something you spent a lot of your time on and is a great product unlike which your mind has never produced before, it's not all that grand. But the idea of it all is reverse because from my experience people who are new to anime are often quite likely to be people who have seen some random dubs on TV, which is quite contradictous with your stating that new people sign for the glory of nihongo. Unless by new you just meant people who you've never seen before which is a rather odd standard to use here. I have no intention of starting to use any silly 7-step programs to describe things, just how high would you have to be to do something like that. My grandpa is a WWII veteran and he happily owned a Japanese car, hurfdurf You're so cute. It's like I'm talking to a WWII veteran that thinks I care about his story. There's no logic involved, the story is overly exaggerated, yet it's told so vaguely and with a serious demeanour. You are so offended right now, and it's just too funny. Just ignore Sitha... |
KuyuJan 20, 2011 3:58 PM
You can find me on IRC. |
Cool story bro. And I, for some reason, don't have this same "really round-about relationship with anime, Nippon, dubs, and subs"? Oh random user, you make me laugh. Yeah my single line about how your 7-step program does not apply to me is indeed a 'ccol story bro'. Your 7-step program only explains your throught process behind the crusade you have commissioned yourself to in this mishmash of a thread. There is no inevitable light for anime fans to find when expressing their preference on this topic. If reading this thread proves something it is that preference on subs, dubs, or neither does not indicate how mature an anime fan is. |
|
| My preference is typically for subs. I normally find the Japanese actors to generally fit their parts better than a English dub actor. I also love the sound of the Japanese language. I can watch dubs, especially when they're pretty good and not at the level at something like Sailor Moon, Midori Days and Princess Tutu come to mind as good dubs but even then I prefer the original Japanese although there are some exceptions. I haven't seen it in dub form in awhile so my memory might be faulty but for FLCL I generally like it dubbed better than the original Japanese version. Something just seem off with the two female leads, a lack of energy in their parts. I'm not entirely sure why but it sorta make the anime feel a bit dull sometimes. |
| Looking at posts on the Internet wouldn't bother me so much if people didn't also mix up he and she. |
| Subbed for sure started watching anime in dub switched to subbed about 2 months later switched to subbed have rly watched dub since |
 |
Onibokusu said: You're so cute. It's like I'm talking to a WWII veteran that thinks I care about his story. There's no logic involved, the story is overly exaggerated, yet it's told so vaguely and with a serious demeanour. You are so offended right now, and it's just too funny. Yes, but you forget that from my point of view what I say is perfectly logical, your generalized "program" certainly did not seem to be typed with yourself in mind but you had it out there as an average behavioral model, which I find rather disturbing since it only fits to a very minor group of people. This statement of yours if anything is highly illogical, and going "lol you so offended" won't make it any more sensible. And just for a sidenote, why do you bother reading this thread or, [enter random higher entity here] help us, post in this thread if you are not intrested in what people say here. I can't say I'm too impressed with your "I'm too cool to care yeah" attitude, it creates bad blood when we just want to have civil discussions here. Kuyukly said: Just ignore Sitha... ilu2, you should talk with us here more, like in the old good times. But instead you just try to put me down. What happened to us, we used to be so close. Were all those words of love just lies, you break my heart man ;_; EDIT: fixing them misspellings as pointed out by Kuyuyuyuyu |
SithaJan 20, 2011 5:59 PM
Oh? I guess prejudice against something, where that prejudice is based upon hearsay and well removed experiences, is pretty mature then. I was using the word mature in the same way you used it in your 7-step program, to indicate a how much time an anime fan has been an anime fan. Let me repeat it. Reading this thread shows that the sub/dub preference is not a function of how long a fan has been into anime. A new fan is not more likely to prefer subs than a mature fan is to be indifferent to either options. I mean, your preference must be justified right? If you like something, there has to be something wrong with the other option and the people that choose it. Right Anime_Name? Yes? No? Depends?Preference! The 140+ pages of this thread has been people giving their opinions as to why they prefer x over y. Some blame y for not being good and some just say y is fine but y is better. |
|
| Don't say shit like "as if dubs were a valid choice" and I won't tell people to ignore you. |
You can find me on IRC. |
Kuyukly said: Don't say shit like "as if dubs were a valid choice" and I won't tell people to ignore you. But in my opinion they are not, unfortunately my posts are heavily colored by my opinion, it can't be helped. Onibokusu said: Civil discussion in a Sub Vs. Dub thread? What an absurd idea. You've already proven it to be hardly civil. You remember what you said in that initial post responding to me? That might just be my idea of civil, I'm a pretty barbaric person afterall. Where I live exaggeration is a normal way to highlight a point one is making, it's rather normal to receive several death threats whenever there's a discussion about something happening so I do think I managed to hold back quite well. |
Sitha said: Kuyukly said: Don't say shit like "as if dubs were a valid choice" and I won't tell people to ignore you. But in my opinion they are not, unfortunately my post are heavily colored by my opinion, it can't be helped. Taking me for a fool? "Dubs aren't a valid choice" is not expressing your opinion, it's a blatant troll. Now knock it off. |
KuyuJan 20, 2011 6:16 PM
You can find me on IRC. |
| How long has this shitting arguement been going on for? 5 or 10 months? Either way, Dubs are for the lazy people that doesn't want to read or that couldn't handle japanese voices and Subs are those who bothered reading and can handle japanese voices. |
Kairen said: Either way, Dubs are for the lazy people that doesn't want to read or that couldn't handle japanese voices and Subs are those who bothered reading and can handle japanese voices. Tell that to all of the completely unlicensed anime on my list and even in my favorites section on my profile. |
KuyuJan 20, 2011 6:30 PM
You can find me on IRC. |
So I'm over generalising based upon observations I've been making since about page 50 of this thread, and you're not? My statements were that over the course of this thread there are differing opinions that don't show a trend of being connected to how long a person has been a fan of anime. Your program concludes that it is mostly the new fans that like subs more than dubs and that eventually over time those new fans once no longer new will somehow change their opinion to that both are fine. I wouldn't call what you did over-generalizing. It looks more like you are rushing to conclusions and dressing up your false-fact as an opinion. It's funny when people think this debate involve the anime fandom as a whole, and isn't solely focused on the opinions of MAL users. Dub v sub is a debate that involves anime fandom as a whole. This particular round of debate is limited to the MAL forums. However, this debate is not a MAL only issue. None of the users here are limited to only discussing this issue on this forum. |
|
More topics from this board
Poll: » Do you agree that One Piece being the top 1 currently airing anime suggests this Spring is weak?18927 - Yesterday |
41 |
by OmBerry12_Bleach
»»
30 seconds ago |
|
» Gainax just filed for bankruptcyHidamariSou - 46 minutes ago |
13 |
by Ratris_Decision
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Best girl from Ecchi animeCatalano - 41 minutes ago |
6 |
by Tirinchas
»»
8 minutes ago |
|
» Most attractive seiyuus?Mattenan - 2 hours ago |
6 |
by Israel_Is_Evil
»»
9 minutes ago |
|
» What cartoon did you come to learn was actually animeJaniSIr - Yesterday |
24 |
by JoeChip
»»
11 minutes ago |