Best anime 2017 Already???!

Gotrys_Cheslock said:
Proper place for this topic:

Murasa22 said:
Why not? Moon and Terra routes are epic in the visual novel and the first episode was really promising.

Just saying it has the potential to be one of the best. The "8bit is shit" meme isn't funny anymore.

Arikado- said:
If I were to agree with that, it would be the same as for me saying that anime is a proper adaptation, but it's not. S2 episode 1 looks slightly better, but it's not enough yet.

Takamura-sama said:

(For the people who have READ rewrite)

Symphyon said:

I say not yet honestly. There's some solid competition around this season (Gintama 2017, KonoSuba S2, Gabriel DropOut, etc, at least for me).

Symphyon said:
characterizing at least Kagari a bit more

Murasa22 said:

No offense but are you really comparing Moon and Terra's plot with Konosuba (which the first episode was really weak honestly) and Gabriel DropOut? really? moe comedy shows?

The only shows competing with Rewrite this season for me is Chaos;Child and Kuzu no Honkai. Don't even mention Little Witch Academia cause even if it has some production quality, its basically a kid's show (I'm not hating or anything cause im also watching

Repeat_it_in_red said:

I'd strongly disagree with that. Throughout the whole show I can assign two roles to Kagari.
1. The Plot Device: Spending most of the time of the animes earlier parts with randomly appearing only when the writer needs her to do so, acting inconsistently, sometimes supportive and sometimes offensive, and then pushing the whole plot through her role of being the "key" (what that actually means...hey, that was never elaboated on...in the same manner as there never was elaborated on the whole universe, the larger story and context and basically why everything even happened the way it did...) we witness Kagari as the typical plot device: only appearing when the writer needs her
2. The Loli Waifu Bait: Randomly strolling around without a clear personality, objective or motive we witness Kagari associating with the mc for plot reasons (aka badly written plot convenience) and whilst doing that over multiple episodes exhibiting nothing but generic antics supposed to make her cute (the word "feecof" triggers my ptsd) without any worthwhile characterization and in the end Kagari was nothing but bland loli waifu bait, because she literally had nothing else going for her.


1. Rewrite's and KonoSuba's plot are hardly comparable, but it's a mistake to boild that statement down to plot. Symphyon sakd that KonoSuba is - in his opinion - around as good as Rewrite, so basically you are saying that the plot is the only deciding factor for quality, which is absurd.
2. This is a matter of debate, but I'd say the first episode of KonoSuba did a pretty good job. They did a good job of structuring the episode (in terms of presenting a climax and progression), reenacting all the characters which made the viewer get invested in the cast again, reference the s1 plot to get the viewer back into the universe and, on top of that, establishing the premise for the upcoming plot.
3. I'd argue that KonoSuba isn't a "moe comedy" per se. Of course you could argue about whether the characters fall into that type, but given nowadays standards they hardly do, more so, the comedy is never focused on anything related to moe, so it would - at best - be a "comedy with moe" and seeing that you use moe with such an obviously negative connotation this whole sentence just really bugs me.
4. Well, you say you aren't hating, but how should I take this then. Clearly you are trying to discredit LWA for being "kid's show", but that is untenable. The fact that you can consume entertainment which is "more" than "just" kid's shows doesn't mean those don't hold their full worth anymore. It is a matter of execution and LWA does a splendid job at capturing it's characters, vivid world and atmosphere, so why can't it be a contender for AOTY. (judging kid's shows for being kid's shows is borderline-elitism)
5. Chaos;Child is still better than Rewrite, but by far not a good show. All we got out of the introductory episode, which is important for setting a tone and etablishing the setting, was a reenactment of a crime series akin to Chaos;Head, but, compared to that, lacking any further material, dragged down by it's bland school setting, which made it even more harem-like, and a mix of unestablished characters acting strange and inconsistent while being slightly mysterious; it basically was a wannabe-mystery, but stupidly bland, unengaging and worse than the recap of C;H that aired before.

The problem at hand though isn't that you're not giving these previous series enough credit, but that you give Rewrite a shitload of credit that it does not deserve.

Murasa22 said:
Season 1 wasn't really an "adaptation" after episode 7 because, you know, new route/branch and stuff.

Murasa22 said:

I agree that it was rushed sometimes but i don't think it was "garbage" or "trash" like some people like to say. And be glad that Rewrite is getting an anime because its probably one of the most hardest materials to adapt into anime format.

Murasa22 said:

But anyway, episode 14 was literally 1:1 with the VN besides the harvest festa memories from Lucia's route, everything else was the same as i remember (i played Moon again a few weeks ago). So i don't get the "proper adaptation", only different thing that would change if it was handed to another studio would be the animation. The direction on this episode was good too.

Murasa22 said:

Of course we can't tell what the future might bring, but my point is that if they keep this same pace and quality it will be a proper adaptation of Moon/Terra.

Arikado- said:

I said that S2 episode 1 is better, I think some things should be different like ... Kotarou shouldn't be able to understand Kagari saying her name yet, but okay, it's some small issue. Anyway, considering that episode is the episode 14 instead of episode 1 (S2), so S1 will be a burden that "S2" has to hold.

Arikado- said:

Agree, but should have been an adaptation since it carry Rewrite name. I wouldn't complain about the new route, if it were at least good (why the hell changed Kagari's behavior so drastically, and why hit by a random rock, that lazy script ... Now try to explain for anime-onlies that Kagari from "moon and terra" route is really how Kagari should be)

Murasa22 said:


No, its not a small issue. That happens in the VN on the exactly moment when Kotarou asks who Kagari is.



I can agree at some point about the anime Kagari, but thats not anime original as well. They used her personality from Harvest Festa's branch/worldline which makes sense since its a "Kagari Route".

About the rock:

Arikado- said:


I played again skipping to make sure, you are right, just the anime scene was so simple that I thought there something wrong based on when Kotarou was not able to understand her (because I didn't remember this good), and he doesn't shown any effort to do so.

But okay, I will not make a big problem on this.

This theory ... I don't know, why would her thrown a rock to begin with? Reason/objective. Better saying, a fking meteor that happens to become a meteorite before hit the ground. When this episode starts, there a scene that is almost saying "if there a lot of possibilities, random things can happens"
But it's my Theory.However, it's lazy.

Murasa22 said:


Wait what?

No offense but are you really comparing Moon and Terra's plot with Konosuba (which the first episode was really weak honestly) and Gabriel DropOut? really? moe comedy shows?

The only shows competing with Rewrite this season for me is Chaos;Child and Kuzu no Honkai. Don't even mention Little Witch Academia cause even if it has some production quality, its basically a kid's show (I'm not hating or anything cause im also watching)

But come on..

Symphyon said:


I died laughing at this because it is so true (because note: Gotrys never adds anything to the topic other than to whine and bitch 24/7 like a kid that didn't got his favorite ice cream)

I say not yet honestly. There's some solid competition around this season (Gintama 2017, KonoSuba S2, Gabriel DropOut, etc, at least for me).



I can actually agree with this a lot when it comes to anime doing as a stand-alone... but...

I can actually argue a bit with that but while the anime has its own faults it did somethings that I did liked and made the experience for me with Season 2 better.

I don't know if this will count but in the Original VN, Kagari is known as a interesting character, but without going into spoiler territory for further, the entire resolution to her character in terms of the original novel wasn't all that great, moreso making her feel just there when it comes to likability to her character.

While I think the anime did better for me to like Kagari and get attached to her further than the original Novel, while yeah you can argue it takes away the point of the character, you do need some characterization before liking a character, Kagari in the novel at least for the heroine routes, until the point, has been treated as the device imo, until Moon, which you'll see later on what I mean. It doesn't help much that in the end while everything was resolved, somethings for me were actually empty.

So in the anime format, as much as it is as a inferior version of the original VN, I think it did itself on its own right good in few aspects for me, characterizing at least Kagari a bit more, and not to mention a message that was more subtle and not that apparent, it's easy to notice around, at least for the anime's standpoint imo.

This is just how I personally look at the anime, as much as it does not go well as a standalone, it did do somethings better than the VN as a standalone product, if that even makes sense, if not then I can try to explain further.

Maybe this might sound a bit biased but that's just how I personally see it.

Murasa22 said:




And don't even say that "score doesn't matter" or compare with MAL's system because finishing a visual novel takes a lot more time and effort than watching a 11-24 episode anime.

So yes, Rewrite deserves a lot of credit for being one of the best of its genre. I don't even need to say that Key is very well-know for making really good VNs. So its very likely that people who played the visual novel will give more credit to Rewrite or S;G for example than something like Gabriel DropOut or Little Witch Academia. I know they might be good shows but you can't really compare them, its like comparing The Hangover with something like Inception or Shutter Island.

I'm sorry, but Konosuba its just another Isekai anime/LN with good comedy (atleast the first season has). You know how these type of thing gets popular nowadays, lets be real here.

Chaos;Child better than Rewrite? well, im not familiar with the source material so i can't say that for now, but i would say that you are not familiar with Rewrite as well to say that right of the bat.

And im not trying to discredit LWA, I'm just saying its a simple show with a simple premise, while Rewrite has way more depth and world building that should be seeing with other eyes.

Lelouch_Darsi said:
Um, Gintama?

..............................

Fayt89 said:


Gintama is garbage

Murasa22 said:

Murasa22 said:

And don't even say that "score doesn't matter" or compare with MAL's system because finishing a visual novel takes a lot more time and effort than watching a 11-24 episode anime.

Murasa22 said:

So yes, Rewrite deserves a lot of credit for being one of the best of its genre. I don't even need to say that Key is very well-know for making really good VNs. So its very likely that people who played the visual novel will give more credit to Rewrite or S;G for example than something like Gabriel DropOut or Little Witch Academia. I know they might be good shows but you can't really compare them, its like comparing The Hangover with something like Inception or Shutter Island.

Murasa22 said:

I'm sorry, but Konosuba its just another Isekai anime/LN with good comedy (atleast the first season has). You know how these type of thing gets popular nowadays, lets be real here.

Murasa22 said:

Chaos;Child better than Rewrite? well, im not familiar with the source material so i can't say that for now, but i would say that you are not familiar with Rewrite as well to say that right of the bat.

Murasa22 said:

And im not trying to discredit LWA, I'm just saying its a simple show with a simple premise, while Rewrite has way more depth and world building that should be seeing with other eyes.

Symphyon said:

Now as I have said with the first quote now, you elaborated that very well with it, of course at least to me I guess when it came down to the Kagari sense, perhaps I'm more feeling a bit attached to her in the anime? But then again, as you said, you can pretty much put her in the 2nd category from you might see from my standpoint.

Now at the same time... if I can be clear as I said, perhaps a personal bias, perhaps I felt like Kagari needed more character to the VN as well with the anime but I slight felt a liking for her in the anime, but I do see the issues. Although writing wise, the VN is better when it comes to that stance.

Symphyon said:

At least you (may, perhaps), not deny my second point though, at least to the meaning the series conveyed which is about the faith and destiny, the anime made it even more apparent, or more noticeable, which is pretty nice, while the VN had it pretty much subtle but... how to say this? They didn't made it very apparent to it, or at least demonstrating everyone's connections at the same time, if that makes sense.

Symphyon said:

"Uh... Not every show has to be an AOTS contender for being complex or very well written. Sometimes, anime series can be a contender for those seasons either for how it is delivered, and how it pretty much goes to preferences, which then reflects on the result by the end of it."

In other words, complex story-line and well written shows aren't EVERYTHING in what an anime needs alone. For me for a show to be considered an AOTY or AOTS contender, it has to be a show that I love throughout, at the same time, it has to be a show that delivers what I was expecting to get or beyond what I was actually expecting, mostly when it comes to my personal eyes. If a series makes me happy and makes me laugh, or at least brings a smile on my face (that's more on a subjective perspective which invalidates my argument perhaps) then it's all well for me. If a series has good characters despite the most simple synopsis, then that's all good for me.

Repeat_it_in_red said:

You are aware that I've been talking about the rewrite anime the whole time. How good people deem the novel to be and how popular it is has nothing to do with the quality of the anime at all.

It is kinda like that though. This is a fallacious argument known as ad populum. Humans can be mistaken and so can a large number of humans be. No matter how many people think Rewrite is good this alone doesn't mean that it is. In an actual debate an argument like this holds 0 merit. And also: Finishing a VN takes more time and effort than finishing an anime and that means an opinion on a VN holds more worth or what? A person can be mistaken and an amount of effort does not make one "more right" or anything, where that rating lies makes no difference. (And just to make counterexamples: There are many VN that fall under the range of <10 hours and hence are shorter than two-cour anime and while there are many VN in the range of 20 hours+ there also are many longer anime in the 50+ range (especially older ones) and some anime like Detective Conan, One Piece or the entirety of Naruto are longer than any VN, so you cant even say VN are longer per se)

"one of the best of its genre" as you sufficiently proved by showing that it's popular? That is not how it works... And Key is well-known for making good VN? That is the same fallacious argument as before, but even more vague and, on top of that, even more wrong, because a studio as a whole is never consistent at any time. Even if most VN by Key were good, that wouldn't mean all are good. There's always flops, ergo this argument is really pointless. And then you are going back to the other argument again: The VN has nothing to do with the anime's quality and that is the current topic. People who like the VN will automatically fanboy over the anime (like seen in this thread) and that validates it? Now that argument is pretty dismissive... And why can't you compare them? Cause they aren't VN's? or cause they aren't as popular? (Oh wait, there are more people watching LWA this season than people who completed Rewrite S1 and that is already half a year old.) You're giving no apparent reason why I can't compare them and while I'm not particularly fond of Gabriel Dropout it still didn't do nearly as much things wrong as Rewrite S2 did.

Well, yes, but KonoSuba actually focuses on a comedic aspect and spoofs the normally generic Isekai anime instead of being just another dumb power fantasy itself. It is by no means the best show in existence, but it is witty and funny (you're even acknowledging that yourself...) and like I pointed out before the first episode of S2 did a very good job at being the introductory episode in terms of structure and such (and now look at the incoherent mess that Rewrite's ep. 1 was). There's another funny thing here though: According to you, Rewrite is good, because many people think that it is, but KonoSuba's popularity doesn't mean anything, cause "that gets popular nowadays"? That, dear user, is hypocrisy at its finest.

I like the formulation "less worse" more than "better" in this context, but let's roll with it. Well, it might be that I'm not familiar with Rewrite, but guess what... I'm not to blame for wanting to watch an anime and that anime alone. You are pretty much confirming that the anime is not elaborating on anything. The VN might be good and you can feel free to believe so, but the anime didn't do a job at being as good and complex as you claim the novel to be, so it isn't. You also don't need to be familiar with Chaos;Child to say something; the quality of source material holds no merit for the quality of the anime! (but it looks like you consider being familiar with the source material an actual criteria...)

See above: World building and depth are not present in the anime which is just an accumulation of a thousands of flaws. Being simple isn't anything bad, pretentious and supposed "complexity" isn't the only thing you should attribute worth tho. Execution is a major aspect of making good shows and neither is "complexity" a substitute for "good plot" (cause, guess what, that comes down to execution) nor is "good plot" a substitute to "good quality overall". Your argument of Simplicity vs. Complexity doesn't hold much merit, because it only describes a quantity and not even a quality.

TL;DR: I don't give a crap about how good the novel is, the anime sucks period


Fair enough; I'm simply advocating against calling Kagari a good or even characterized character, but that's indifferent to a comparison between anime and novel as well as to your personal attachment to a character (except if you want to narrow your attachment down to certain execution aspects and claim the anime doing a good job based on that).

Welp, I simply can't be arsed to look into some "message" or "meaning" when the work itself isn't working on any level of story, subtlety, consistency, coherency, world building, explanations, plot and even characters. No matter any intended message the simply absence of a working base to ground that on pretty much invalidates that. The VN may have had such messages, I'm not doubting that, but that can't come across in the anime when the anime doesn't even manage to bring way more substantial points across, so basically there can't be meaning behind something that isn't even something per se.

Basically, yes. Execution is the most important element of any anime and also the part which requires the greatest skill in handling the show. You can make anything that only includes a concept good by making assumptions, you can make any resemblance of character or character conflict good by making assumptions and you can turn any story that attempts a large scale good by making assumptions. You can think of everything as good if you only think of something to make out of what is in front of you, but the way the show handles itself and presents itself is what actually determines how self-aware of its strength the show is and that is what creates good shows. Flashing out its own strengths with well-paced presentation, that is. "Complexity" and "Intelligence" is not universal, but execution is and in the end that is the sole consistent element that can define and bind all anime, because it is all encompassing.

Repeat_it_in_red said:
You're giving no apparent reason why I can't compare them and while I'm not particularly fond of Gabriel Dropout it still didn't do nearly as much things wrong as Rewrite S2 did.

Symphyon said:


I think you have taken things out of my mouth when I was showing this to a friend of mine who he as well agreed that when Murasa brought the "VN" argument, it fell apart.

No offense to Murasa or anything but if you brought the VN argument, we're not going to compare the anime with the VN. Even as much as I liked the first season of Rewrite (despite the issues it had of course) I'm not that dumb to go and bring that argument into a discussion, at least directly doing so.

Also this reminds me of 2 years ago with me bringing the source material argument a lot and such, and from experience, not gonna lie... that makes you a bit stupid. Discuss what the anime did and what the anime did alone, don't directly bring the VN into the discussion because that makes the argument pretty stale and weak.

Symphyon said:


Unfunny = Subjective Term

I can agree at least it is overrated (because There are literally a lot of Gintama entries on MAL Tops but hey, It's MAL, so what?)

Overhyped? I think most of it is just from manga readers and those that actually appreciate for what it is, of course, I have Gintama as my favorite show of all time so of course, inb4 your argument will be "your opinion is invalid" because it is my favorite show (no I'm not acting like a butthurt Gintama fangirl or anything, but point taking that you will say this in a matter of seconds).

Then again that's just a thing to be debated or elaborated (highly doubt you would actually go and elaborate, knowing that you haven't done anything yet Imo to prove that you can)

Symphyon said:


Dunno? xD I would want the person to add not yet too. :T But I say not yet.