astroprogs said: CookingPriest said: That's not the reason why she did not entertain possibility Of Shinji doing it. Rin is just dumb and prideful like that, with the tendency of underestimating others at the worst possible moment. Its less of "Shinji can't do that" nad more of "NO way this looser would be able to or want to since he clearly is all talk". In fact even when she found out that Shinji is a master, the first thing she did was to humiliate and goad him because of that line of thought(which in itself was the cause of Shinji activating the barrier) Well, it's not like she can be blamed for having this view of Shinji. The dude is harmless and incompetent as a water flea with a huge inferiority complex and tendency to always talk big to boot. Why didn't she think it could possibly be his Servant, however, is indeed a fuck up on her part. Dude's been an abusive jerk who beat up his own sister(implied by Shirou scenes) and who already has sent a servant after them. There's no way to think about it differently - Rin is a prideful fuck up. Her tendency to underestimate people and make worst possible choices is a huge reason on why Shirou was searching for her after losing Saber after all. He was (rightfully so) worried that Rin will get herself into trouble again due to her screw-up nature(gee thanks anime from removing all of that) astroprogs said: 3. I get where CookingPriest is coming from with his interpretation, but both theories can easily be argued for or against. Kirei can control two Servants if he had the means to provide mana to two extremely mana draining familiars, and he did. Having a body doesn't mean that he didn't need a contract anymore since he's still a familiar, a Servant. Having a body just meant that he doesn't need the Grail to exist anymore. He can survive without a master for a really long time thanks to his A+ Independent Action class-skill, anyway, so it's not like it really matters if he had one or not. Both Rin and Archer in the prologue clearly note that "the blonde guy is clearly not a servant/familiar". Its really pointless argument tho since its not like Kirei could even control the dude even if he had the seals, but to put it simply Kirei is not a skilled mage enough to be able to survive holding two servants at once. BebeCharlotte said: Didn't the Grail already chose Bazette as a master? So it's okay for outsiders to participate in the HGW without being chosen originally by the Grail itself? I'm assuming yes since Soichirou became one but I still wanna clear this one out. Kirei BebeCharlotte said: 4. If Archer's core wasn't destroyed by Gil and he went into spirit form then wouldn't Gil still be able to see him? Servants can detect other servants right? Due to being rekt by lancer and his fight with Shirou and his body being skewered by Gil's swords, Archer was so low on power that he was not registering to others. Even if Gil noticed, he would not give a shit, most likely. BebeCharlotte said: So Lancer couldn't use the Barbed Spear because he needs to be close to Archer? Weren't they fighting in melee from the start? He could use it, that's why Archer angered and manipulated Lancer with the whole dog comment in order to make Lancer want to utterly annihilate Archer instead with a stronger and more flashy attack. Because Archer knew he had no way of surviving the less flashy one. |
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CookingPriest said: Dude's been an abusive jerk who beat up his own sister(implied by Shirou scenes) and who already has sent a servant after them. There's no way to think about it differently - Rin is a prideful fuck up. Her tendency to underestimate people and make worst possible choices is a huge reason on why Shirou was searching for her after losing Saber after all. He was (rightfully so) worried that Rin will get herself into trouble again due to her screw-up nature(gee thanks anime from removing all of that) But Rin never knew about that. Heck, Shirou himself, the one who actually lives with Sakura, never knew about it until that scene in the common route. Rin underestimates people a lot, yes, but she's not stupid. There was just a bunch of information she didn't have, like the fact the barrier is Shinji's doing. Once Shirou has told her about that, she immediately realizes what's going on. If she was truly as stupid as you're saying, she wouldn't have still cared and stood by her view of Shinji's incompetence, "having a power doesn't mean the water flea is actually capable of using it", "Once a loser, Always a loser" and all that. CookingPriest said: Both Rin and Archer in the prologue clearly note that "the blonde guy is clearly not a servant/familiar". Its really pointless argument tho since its not like Kirei could even control the dude even if he had the seals, but to put it simply Kirei is not a skilled mage enough to be able to survive holding two servants at once. Gil himself notes that he's a Servant when he was being sucked by the Grail. Gil having a human body isn't exactly common, so Rin and Archer not noticing that he's a Servant is understandable. Gil wasn't a burden like normal Servants, though. Kirei has a contract with him, but he himself doesn't provide him with mana, only Lancer. And, unlike Saber in Good End, he doesn't need a ridiculous amount of mana to sustain his spiritual body from dispersing without the Grail since he doesn't have a spiritual body anymore. |
astroprogsNov 16, 2015 3:32 AM
astroprogs said: But Rin never knew about that. Heck, Shirou himself, the one who actually lives with Sakura, never knew about it until that scene in the common route. Rin underestimates people a lot, yes, but she's not stupid. There was just a bunch of information she didn't have, like the fact the barrier is Shinji's doing. Once Shirou has told her about that, she immediately realizes what's going on. If she was truly as stupid as you're saying, she wouldn't have still cared and stood by her view of Shinji's incompetence, "having a power doesn't mean the water flea is actually capable of using it", "Once a loser, Always a loser" and all that. Once shirou told her she realizes that she was completely dumb. And the first thing she does when Shirou istalking was to go "oh pls he wont do anything" and only goes "O SHIT" when shirou actually makes her realize her fuck up. Its not about lack of information. Rin is "intelligent", but she IS dumb and completely shit at on-the-field decisions, which is the opposite of Shirou -someone who lacks knowledge, but is perfect at quick decisions and predicting people. Rin was dumb enough to anger a jerk who already tried to kill her and shirou with a servant. She is too prideful to even entertain a notion that this guy can do something bad despite having a lot of proof in regards to that(ex: Ayako situation and the fact that Shinji had no problems using a servant to suck lifeforce out of people) There's no need to whitewash Rin's flaws. Her incompetence, lack of people skills, over-exaggerated pride and tendency to fuck up whatever she is doing is part of her character. |
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| Rin is the type of person who will get everything done perfectly but will also occasionally blubber up the most important part of all. She does have some problems,which Archer notes,but you're making her sound completely inept,which isn't the case at all. Shirou is perfect at quick decisions and predicting people. lol |
| Who should I believe whether Gil is still Kirei's servant or not? |
CookingPriest said: Once shirou told her she realizes that she was completely dumb. And the first thing she does when Shirou istalking was to go "oh pls he wont do anything" and only goes "O SHIT" when shirou actually makes her realize her fuck up. Its not about lack of information. Rin is "intelligent", but she IS dumb and completely shit at on-the-field decisions, which is the opposite of Shirou -someone who lacks knowledge, but is perfect at quick decisions and predicting people. Rin was dumb enough to anger a jerk who already tried to kill her and shirou with a servant. She is too prideful to even entertain a notion that this guy can do something bad despite having a lot of proof in regards to that(ex: Ayako situation and the fact that Shinji had no problems using a servant to suck lifeforce out of people) There's no need to whitewash Rin's flaws. Her incompetence, lack of people skills, over-exaggerated pride and tendency to fuck up whatever she is doing is part of her character. I reread the scene and... you're right. She pretty much never gave the possibility a chance literally because "lol Shinji". I guess that falls perfectly in the "fucks up the most important part" category. Rin didn't know he tried to kill them, though, nor what he did to Ayako and all of Rider's shenanigans since there was a fourth Master at school. Rin would've flipped at him immediately like she did after the barrier activation. On Another note though, Shirou is definitely quick on his feet, but he's horrible at psychologically predicting people. Throughout the story, in every route, Shirou continues to turn a blind eye to some painfully obvious truths because they felt inconvenient, leading him to bad roads and, in the extreme cases, bad ends. Continuously putting faith in Illya in Fate in particular is a prime example of this. BebeCharlotte said: Who should I believe whether Gil is still Kirei's servant or not? Why is it important, though? Gil can survive with and without Kirei and their relationship was never a Master/Servant one and more of a partnership, so Kirei would never use a CS on him, not that he actually can. Lore-wise, Gil is a servant that needs a contract to anchor him to the world. Story-wise, it's as irrelevant as it gets. |
BebeCharlotte said: Who should I believe whether Gil is still Kirei's servant or not? Ultimately it doe snot matter. Even if he IS, its only in the name only astroprogs said: I reread the scene and... you're right. She pretty much never gave the possibility a chance literally because "lol Shinji". I guess that falls perfectly in the "fucks up the most important part" category. Frankly that's what I like about her as a character. She is wise and could create a perfect plan, but she still crumbles under pressure and her choice to alienate herself from people has severely fucked up her capability of assessing them correctly. Shirou on other hand lacks knowledge that Rin has but is perfect at making decisions on the go and predicting "ten moves ahead" - In a way that makes Shirou and Rin complete each other. Rin didn't know he tried to kill them, though, nor what he did to Ayako and all of Rider's shenanigans since there was a fourth Master at school. Rin would've flipped at him immediately like she did after the barrier activation. Rin outright states that Shinji approached her and delivered almost exact same speech as to Shirou and offered her to join forces. So she knows about Ayako. And literally seconds after finding out Shinji's servant did those things and that Shinji is a master, she flips him off in the most humiliating kind of a way. Because Rin's gonna Rin. On Another note though, Shirou is definitely quick on his feet, but he's horrible at psychologically predicting people. The only way he has "pretended" to fit in so far is because he kept guessing people reactions to his actions(Since he lacks self-focused emotions and overall has a limited range of them). He misses a lot of times, but when it comes to making a decision or a fight, such training works in his favor. Throughout the story, in every route, Shirou continues to turn a blind eye to some painfully obvious truths because they felt inconvenient, leading him to bad roads and, in the extreme cases, bad ends. But that most of cases has to do with his distortion. Like there are multiple moments in both fate and UBW where his mind literally almost shuts down from even trying to approach certain things. Continuously putting faith in Illya in Fate in particular is a prime example of this. As for Illya - why is it bad? It just shows that out of them all, only he was able to see the true person behind the warped exterior. |
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CookingPriest said: Rin outright states that Shinji approached her and delivered almost exact same speech as to Shirou and offered her to join forces. So she knows about Ayako. And literally seconds after finding out Shinji's servant did those things and that Shinji is a master, she flips him off in the most humiliating kind of a way. Because Rin's gonna Rin. You're remembering this part incorrectly. All Shinji did was tell her that he's a Master and asked for her co-operation. He never showed her Rider nor told her about anything he did after obtaining her. Rin would've Gandr'd Shinji's ass on the spot if he went "...Oh and BTW, after trying to murder you, i had my Servant rape Ayako to get the mana back lol. Women, amirite? So, wanna join the seaweed club?". CookingPriest said: The only way he has "pretended" to fit in so far is because he kept guessing people reactions to his actions(Since he lacks self-focused emotions and overall has a limited range of them). He misses a lot of times, but when it comes to making a decision or a fight, such training works in his favor. That's not what helped him fit in. Being the "kind, helpful and little bit good looking Emiya" is what did it. "Homurahara Brownie" was everyone's friend and no one, other than, Issei ever came close enough to take a glimpse at the true Shirou Emiya. CookingPriest said: But that most of cases has to do with his distortion. Like there are multiple moments in both fate and UBW where his mind literally almost shuts down from even trying to approach certain things. These weren't the instances i meant. What i meant was stuff like (All routes spoilers): Shirou's desire to believe in people is so strong, it rendered him unable to properly judge them. He can never predict their train of thoughts and decision making because he's forcing his beliefs onto them. Kirei is the obvious exception because they're two sides of a coin. CookingPriest said: As for Illya - why is it bad? It just shows that out of them all, only he was able to see the true person behind the warped exterior. Because Shirou became so blinded with his perception of the "innocent child" Illya, he never sees the "10-years of psychotic hate and loathing" Illya coming. Someone who can actually predict people can figure both sides out and deal accordingly, not follow his baseless hopeful wishing. If it wasn't for Rin and Saber, Illya would've murdered the oblivious Shirou a couple of times during Fate. |
astroprogsNov 16, 2015 2:19 PM
astroprogs said: To be fair[spoiler]he actively TRIED not to think about implications of Zouken and Sakura. Fate/Stay said: I just didn't try to notice. The night when I confronted Zouken. He said Sakura was unrelated, and I believed him. (...) But… I believed his words because they were convenient for me. I could've easily realized it. It's something I could've guessed with even a little thought. …That's why I wasn't surprised. I knew it was obvious when I found out Sakura's a Master and that she's been raped until now. But I didn't think about it because I couldn't keep going if I realized it. |
shinigamiPeter said: [/quote]astroprogs said: To be fair[spoiler]he actively TRIED not to think about implications of Zouken and Sakura. Fate/Stay said: I just didn't try to notice. The night when I confronted Zouken. He said Sakura was unrelated, and I believed him. (...) But… I believed his words because they were convenient for me. I could've easily realized it. It's something I could've guessed with even a little thought. …That's why I wasn't surprised. I knew it was obvious when I found out Sakura's a Master and that she's been raped until now. But I didn't think about it because I couldn't keep going if I realized it. Yeah, that's exactly my point. He's intentionally crippling himself. It's not about his ideals or his distorted view of himself, his morals and duties, but good old not wanting to feel bad about a loved one's lack of well being. The latter would have him willingly turn a blind eye and feel bad about doing that later, while the former would have him go: |
| If Shirou continues to train after his hair turns white, will his hair fall out and let him become a true hero? |
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OneTrueBaita said: If Shirou continues to train after his hair turns white, will his hair fall out and let him become a true hero? Only if he replaces his projection training with push ups, sit ups, squats, and a 10 km run. |
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| Now I decided to rewatch UBW and one question pops in my head - If I recall, Shirou's affinity are swords, right? Why did he appear as Archer class then? |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
Dimitrije1606 said: Now I decided to rewatch UBW and one question pops in my head - If I recall, Shirou's affinity are swords, right? Why did he appear as Archer class then? Because of his proficiency in Archery maybe.According to Ayako,he never missed a target unless he wanted to. |
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laidellent said: Dimitrije1606 said: Now I decided to rewatch UBW and one question pops in my head - If I recall, Shirou's affinity are swords, right? Why did he appear as Archer class then? Because of his proficiency in Archery maybe.According to Ayako,he never missed a target unless he wanted to. Also, his true form of attack is actually sniping people. His K&B is less effective than just spamming Broken Phantasms from afar. |
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Dimitrije1606 said: Now I decided to rewatch UBW and one question pops in my head - If I recall, Shirou's affinity are swords, right? Why did he appear as Archer class then? He has no stats for Saber class |
flameindustry said: Yup, she came back for a visit only~ |
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OneTrueBaita said: flameindustry said: Yup, she came back for a visit only~ i wish if she lives with them it will be cute~~~ |
roly-lina said: OneTrueBaita said: Yup, she came back for a visit only~ i wish if she lives with them it will be cute~~~ Well Zeltrech is responsible for her and you don't want to annoy that guy |
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| Hey guys, anyone knows if there are eng subtitles for season 2 BD version? I looked pretty much everywhere for it and still can't find them. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| What happened to Saber after HF ? |
Rogue0022 said: What happened to Saber after HF ? She went back to the hill. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Rogue0022 said: What happened to Saber after HF ? She went back to the hill. Still blackened. The poor girl ;_; |
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Dimitrije1606 said: Oh hell, I'll just do it myself. If anyone reads this and needs subs, tell me. I'll finish them in 2-3 days time tops.Hey guys, anyone knows if there are eng subtitles for season 2 BD version? I looked pretty much everywhere for it and still can't find them. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
Dimitrije1606 said: Dimitrije1606 said: Oh hell, I'll just do it myself. If anyone reads this and needs subs, tell me. I'll finish them in 2-3 days time tops.Hey guys, anyone knows if there are eng subtitles for season 2 BD version? I looked pretty much everywhere for it and still can't find them. That's awesome, thanks :) |
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OneTrueBaita said: mira-nyan said: She went back to the hill. Still blackened. The poor girl ;_; No, she somewhat got a resolution.   This is me hoping that it wasn't aimed at Zouken. The backdrop was the same one as in the cave where SLH happened, so it's an educated guess. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
OneTrueBaita said: Dimitrije1606 said: Oh hell, I'll just do it myself. If anyone reads this and needs subs, tell me. I'll finish them in 2-3 days time tops. That's awesome, thanks :) Can't promise it will be perfect though. I'll do my best, but it will have some glitches. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
mira-nyan said: And that little snippet also only happened in True End where you see Zouken's resolution, so it may be aimed at ZoukenThis is me hoping that it wasn't aimed at Zouken. The backdrop was the same one as in the cave where SLH happened, so it's an educated guess. |
LittleGaoDec 5, 2015 3:10 PM
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| D mira-nyan said: Rogue0022 said: What happened to Saber after HF ? She went back to the hill. Damn that's sad. |
| It's also not completely true. Since we don't actually know what happened to her. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: It's also not completely true. Since we don't actually know what happened to her. Someone should ask Nasu once de HF movie(s) come out . |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: It's also not completely true. Since we don't actually know what happened to her. Well, if she believed, as Alter, that all hope was lost on the hill, then she'd have no reason to continue pursuing her wish and would therefore go to Avalon. >.> |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| I don't really know what she believes in,but in GO when you ask her about the grail she says that if it's real,she'll use it and if it's fake she'll destroy it. So at the very least she has a wish. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: I don't really know what she believes in,but in GO when you ask her about the grail she says that if it's real,she'll use it and if it's fake she'll destroy it. So at the very least she has a wish. Unlimited Codes + HF > FGO. It's more like, 'I don't mind, but if there's a wish-granting device, I will use it because why not'. We all know she'd use it to get an unlimited supply of junk food, anyways. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Unlimited Codes + HF > FGO. No? Like especially not UC. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: mira-nyan said: Unlimited Codes + HF > FGO. No? Like especially not UC. Twas a joke, sir. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Why exactly is the method of projection that shirou and archer use ridiculous ? |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
Baitdragon16 said: Why exactly is the method of projection that shirou and archer use ridiculous ? Normally, projections are hollow replicas of objects. But Archer and Shirou are able to project swords that are close to their original quality (albeit ranked down). And those projections don't go away that fast either, which is really weird. |
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| Can Shirou trace Fragarach and Gae Bolg |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
Baitdragon16 said: Can Shirou trace Fragarach and Gae Bolg Yes. He can trace most bladed weapons as long as they aren't made of any freaky shit like Ea or Excalibur |
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WrongPriest said: Sherou said: Yes. He can trace most bladed weapons as long as they aren't made of any freaky shit like Ea or Excalibur and he can still trace Excalibur, it'll just ded him. He can't trace Excalibur. He can only trace a fragment of a fragment. As in, even less than EMIYA's Excalibur Image. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| I've been asking a lot of questions lately . Where can I get me some Luvia ? Since archer can use the skills of the wielder of a weapon he has traced does that mean that he can trace Lancer's spear and use Gae Bolg ? As in to actually Gae Bolg someone . Also can he defeat Iskandar ? |
SodiumChlorideDec 7, 2015 1:44 PM
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| Does anyone have some Shirou and Shinji bro pics? Baitdragon16 said: Where can I get me some Luvia ? Prillya albums would be your best chance of getting some Finnish goodness~ Since archer can use the skills of the wielder of a weapon he has traced does that mean that he can trace Lancer's spear and use Gae Bolg ? As in to actually Gae Bolg someone . He could, but it wouldn't be useful. His projection's rank is lowered, so GB becomes a C-ranked NP. And then there's his horrid luck preventing him from taking advantage of the luck check. Basically, it's not worth the prana he puts into GB if he can just shoot it/Break Caladbolg or something. Also can he defeat Iskandar ? No idea, anything beyond that would be speculation, but I'd say if he can snipe Iskandar with Hrunting or something, that's one dead Rider. One problem Archer would face though, would be getting ambushed by the IH soldiers if Rider decides to materialise him smack in the middle of his army. |
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OneTrueBaita said: Since archer can use the skills of the wielder of a weapon he has traced does that mean that he can trace Lancer's spear and use Gae Bolg ? As in to actually Gae Bolg someone . He could, but it wouldn't be useful. His projection's rank is lowered, so GB becomes a C-ranked NP. And then there's his horrid luck preventing him from taking advantage of the luck check. Basically, it's not worth the prana he puts into GB if he can just shoot it/Break Caladbolg or something. . Does rank even matter with Gae Bolg? I mean, reversing cause and effect is reversing cause and effect, no matter the rank. And where does it say the user's luck matters? Lancer's luck is as bad as Archer's and he can still use it. |
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Sherou said: OneTrueBaita said: He could, but it wouldn't be useful. His projection's rank is lowered, so GB becomes a C-ranked NP. And then there's his horrid luck preventing him from taking advantage of the luck check. Basically, it's not worth the prana he puts into GB if he can just shoot it/Break Caladbolg or something. . Does rank even matter with Gae Bolg? I mean, reversing cause and effect is reversing cause and effect, no matter the rank. And where does it say the user's luck matters? Lancer's luck is as bad as Archer's and he can still use it. The main thing is,he won't be able to invoke the curse of Gae Bolg,which is exclusive to Cu.I mean even Gil has Gae Bolg but he rather throws it around because he can't invoke the curse. |
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laidellent said: Sherou said: Does rank even matter with Gae Bolg? I mean, reversing cause and effect is reversing cause and effect, no matter the rank. And where does it say the user's luck matters? Lancer's luck is as bad as Archer's and he can still use it. The main thing is,he won't be able to invoke the curse of Gae Bolg,which is exclusive to Cu.I mean even Gil has Gae Bolg but he rather throws it around because he can't invoke the curse. That is debatable. While Gil cannot use it, that's because he isn't projecting the weapon and gaining its experience. Archer could potentially use an NP, so long as it isn't user-locked or something. That's how he used If he can't activate NPs and can only use them like Gil, then he shouldn't be able to do that in that scene. Sherou said: And where does it say the user's luck matters? Lancer's luck is as bad as Archer's and he can still use it. Well, considering the Gae Bolg NP attack didn't actually kill anyone for the entire War... |
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| My main point is the curse is Cu specific because he mastered the spear and the curse has direct co relation with him(him killing his friend and son with that).It can't be copied.The only one who can use it beside Cu is Scathach but it originally belonged to her. Shirou can copy Gae Bolg but he can't invoke the curse associated with it. |
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laidellent said: My main point is the curse is Cu specific because he mastered the spear and the curse has direct co relation with him(him killing his friend and son with that).It can't be copied.The only one who can use it beside Cu is Scathach but it originally belonged to her. Shirou can copy Gae Bolg but he can't invoke the curse associated with it. I didn't know about this. Which side material states that only Lancer can use reverse causality curse on Gae Bolg? IIRC the curse itself in the legend is already crystallised as the NP attack. |
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