Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 5 Discussion

windy said:
As for the rest of the thread, I really enjoyed reading ukonkivi's, Zedrane's, etc posts. Thank you for having that discussion without spoilers; it helped me to understand some things and was just fun to read. :)

Shoga said:
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little;
but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying

vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein,
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light
into the peace and safety of a new dark age."

Zedrane said:


Your welcome. I remember getting spoiled about some major scenes from game 3 / 4 so I really try and avoid saying them. Even with such ignorance of Battler's insane awesomeness. (looking at YOU Ukonkivi) :P

Hey, Ukonkivi got anything else you think doesn't make sense? I bet we can get this thread up to 500 posts easy. Hehehe.



Do you keep a whole bunch of quotes in your back pocket?

Zedrane said:

Okay you can stop watching Umineko right now. It will never make sense until the end when it all comes together. :P The whole fun of the series is to try and make sense of it until the answers. I've read up to episode 4 and it makes even less sense then than it does now.

You just don't get Battler.... I don't believe that at this point Battler really does not believe that Beatrice does actually not exist at all. The whole point is that if he accepts her she could do whatever she wanted. She is obviously evil so he's calling her bluff that it was all magic. He is fighting back by denying the witch because he thinks there is more going on then she's letting on and he won't let her do as she pleases.

MarthX said:
For anyone that believes strongly that a witch was behind it, let me say a theory that could turn everything around. It was already mentioned but it seems many have overlooked it.

This isn't a spoiler, just a theory

What proof do you have that 6 people died in the first twilight? Nanjo? So you automatically rule out the possibility that Nanjo could be lying? He could be an accomplice you know.

Because you see the bodies? Who's to say that those are all real corpses? There could be a doll made to look like one put along the real ones. Unless you actually touch and examine the body, you wouldn't be able to tell one is fake.

And the most interesting one. Only Kanon and Hideyoshi saw Shannon's corpse because it was partially hidden behind some things. What if Hideyoshi and Kanon were lying? Then there'd be no proof whatsoever that Shannon died.

If someone was lying and there weren't 6 people dead there then that extra person could have hidden themself and killed the others when they separated. This theory smashes the illusion that it was only possible for a 19th person, Witch

As for the golden butterflies, that's not important. The main point is explaining how the murders could have been accomplished with human means.

noteDhero said:
That's my problem. Why couldn't he just say that? There is an arrogance, and immaturity about him that I just can't get behind. Battler just doesn't want to be wrong, so he acts like a petulant child.

noteDhero said:
And this is what I mean when I say "everything has to make sense everywhere." The explanation you give MarthX is really good up until the point that you just totally toss away the butterflies. Everything has to make sense everywhere. But I do agree that the servants and Kinzo aren't telling everything that they could/should tell. I just don't trust any of them.

sarahwest said:
ehmmm.... i dont get it, not only the whole 2nd part.
I got some ideas after reading all the posts here, but... why do they want to prove if the murder was done by human hands or witches'?
i seem to have lost their motivation; for an outsider, eg a detective, this might be interesting to look into, but as a participant... i mean, if you are dead, well, it is possible u want to know the murderer to revenge, but this whole witch stuff, i just dont get it.... :-(

ps: if battler and the rest were already killed as well, as everybody is saying, then what is there to prove? since they most likely know the murderer already....(typical detective story: only the victim knows the truth) or were they all killed in darkness? ^_^

sarahwest said:

psss: just have to ask, what is so great about that witch Bernkastel? (totally dont get it....)

sarahwest said:
ehmmm.... i dont get it, not only the whole 2nd part.
I got some ideas after reading all the posts here, but... why do they want to prove if the murder was done by human hands or witches'?
i seem to have lost their motivation; for an outsider, eg a detective, this might be interesting to look into, but as a participant... i mean, if you are dead, well, it is possible u want to know the murderer to revenge, but this whole witch stuff, i just dont get it.... :-(

ps: if battler and the rest were already killed as well, as everybody is saying, then what is there to prove? since they most likely know the murderer already....(typical detective story: only the victim knows the truth) or were they all killed in darkness? ^_^

Tsunami said:

She is familiar from a different, similar, story by the same author.

_Me_ said:
The Beatrice scene was trippy.

What if these witches are just called witches and are part of an organization??? That might work.

I didn't get how Shannon and Kanon were revived, unless they never were completely done in.

_Me_ said:
The Beatrice scene was trippy.

What if these witches are just called witches and are part of an organization??? That might work.

I didn't get how Shannon and Kanon were revived, unless they never were completely done in.

Zedrane said:
He is s.t.u.b.b.o.r.n. and born with a natural magic resistance.
And what you suggest would make even less sense.
Battler: "Okay, I'll admit it witches and magic totally exist. Now it's time to say they don't and deny their existence."
Beatrice: "O_o" "Are you feeling okay Battler?"

How do the butterflies prove Beatrice is the culprit at all?

Zedrane said:
Actually I re watched that scene and if you look closely Battler pulls the lever to eject the cartridge at the exact same time he pulls the hammer back. His arm moves in front of the lever so it's hard to see though.

Somnia said:


Had to.

ukonkivi said:
I've watched a couple of videos of the VN on youtube. Seems kind of simplistic.
I'd say it's more likely to be kind of canon if the manga also has them.

Evilyn said:
Rika, anyone?

ukonkivi said:
Fredrika Benkastel.
フルデリカ
フルデ　リカ
ふるで　りか
古手 梨花

z2000 said:
I never understood why people... read visual novels through... youtube...

Buying/torrenting truly isnt that hard.

ukonkivi said:
Buying/torrenting truly isnt that hard.
Impantience. Took me a while to find a good torrent.
Broke as a joke. Yeah, it kind of is that hard.

But since it's so easy, why don't you get me a job?

ukonkivi said:

Impantience. Took me a while to find a good torrent.
Broke as a joke. Yeah, it kind of is that hard.

But since it's so easy, why don't you get me a job?

z2000 said:

First get about $500 in whatever way.

Go on ebay, buy broken ps3's for 100~200. Fix them, sell them for $200+.

Fixing a ps3 should only take about 2-3 hours at the most.

Though, it doesn't have to be a ps3. Just buy something broken and easy to fix, and sell for higher. Or, just do some repair service.

Alternatively, beg. A homeless man can easily make one million dollars a year that way.

Definitely not real jobs, but you're still making decent money, and at your own pace.

noteDhero said:
as for the butterflies, they don't prove that she is a culprit, but they do prove (at least to me) that there is a supernatural element to everything. I think I said it before: if Battler hadn't seen and interacted with the butterflies, then I wouldn't give it as much stake as I am now, but since Battler is being presented as the logical, straight-forward narrator, I accept the butterflies, and therefore Beatrice, as real.

And as I have also said, maybe Beatrice isn't the direct cause of all the murders, but I think that viewers who take up that chase are falling for a red-herring that is a decoy to some of the real questions.

noteDhero said:
I'm glad that everytime there has been an accidental spoiler in this thread I happen to not come in time to catch it. Very lucky.

OmegaDenmad said:
That was a spoiler for the anime? Uh oh.

Zedrane said:

It wasn't much of a spoiler. Just a basic rule put in place during Battler's game of logic with Beatrice.

noteDhero said:


No big deal. It's just what? The 3rd time it's happened. I've been very lucky lately...especially after stumbling on a few massive spoilers for other shows I'm watching.

Zedrane said:

Yeah, there are so many things easily spoiled in Umineko. The damned thing has more plots twists AND is more confusing than Code Geass R2. Beat that.

noteDhero said:
Ugh, I don't want to think about the atrocity that was R2.