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WHY is 'No Game No Life' SO POPULAR?

No Game No Life (light novel)
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Jul 4, 2014 1:43 PM
#201
Aria_Wright

Offline
Apr 2010
1355
SolviteSekai said:
When people devote much of their time to defaming a cartoon for the same of defaming it, it gets to the point of obsession.

I bitch about grimdark anime as much as the next guy, but i spread the hate.

Some of you dudes care too much about rankings.


Holy damn those are some words of wisdom here. Wish more people thought like you here.
Jul 4, 2014 1:55 PM
#202
DrGeroCreation

Offline
Aug 2013
14394
LOL being jealous does not = character development and making a friend does not =character development. Also last time I checked Shiro was friends with Steph and Jibril before she even met Izuna. Sora would obviously seek out an answer because he has a thirst for winning games. Finding out more about Steph's father gave him the knowledge to help take on the warbeasts.
Jul 4, 2014 3:18 PM
#203
ilok
Offline
Jun 2010
223
Because it's awesome.
Jul 4, 2014 8:54 PM
#204
throwaway111
Offline
Jan 2014
3670
As sad as it is, I think people can relate to the main characters (meaning that they do gaming all the time and think of themselves as smart people). Also, fanservice. And the visuals are pretty damn awesome.
Jul 5, 2014 12:01 AM
#205
jreginald

Offline
Mar 2014
838
TianCheng said:
Because, unlike Kill la Kill, it doesn't take itself seriously.


lolwat.
Jul 5, 2014 12:15 AM
#206
thewookie34

Offline
Mar 2014
3
I liked because it had great animation. I love animation style the most when it comes to anime or anything really. Plus it's fun and light hearted. To say this show has no plot twist because they never lose you must of not listened to the first 10 minutes. Blank Never Loses. It's how they win that's fun and interesting. It's like having a game spoiled for you. It means nothing. The journey is the fun part not the ending.
Jul 5, 2014 2:28 AM
#207
ByronFlint

Offline
Jun 2013
42
I have one question:

Why do lots of haters or just lots of people who rate NGNL with 4 or lower watch
all 12 episodes, then rate it 4 or lower, then make a review about it why it's so bad???
Is it to tease the fanbase, or just giving an Anime a bad name is a fun thing to do?

An example for me, I really did not like Elfen Lied and as I watched the first episode I dropped it. But that was because I am very weak with blood and killing children, etc.
But I still appreciate the Anime and if I would succeed in dealing with the killing and the blood I would have enjoyed the Anime.

I didn't watch a full Anime, then rate it low and kept screaming on the forums why it's so bad ... -.-
There is just 0.000000000 enjoyment in doing that.

If you don't like an Anime, don't watch it and rate it low. Just watch an Anime you like.
And if you want to give a offensive review, well you should have some experiences with reviewing and not make your first review and make it offensive. If it's like your tenth review and it's offence, I'm more okay with that.
“The One With The Stronger Heart, Always Wins The Battle!!!”
[i]
Let's Go Out of Here..... Together..... (Yes, that red-car with a mustache is my car :D )
Jul 5, 2014 3:17 AM
#208
Nidhoeggr

Offline
Apr 2009
5790
jreginald said:
TianCheng said:
Because, unlike Kill la Kill, it doesn't take itself seriously.


lolwat.


One could argue it's more the other way around. Kill la Kill has some serious themes, but clearly is not that stuck up its own arse like NGNL is.
Jojolion anime when?
Jul 5, 2014 4:02 AM
#209
tabaha
Offline
Nov 2009
4
VortrexSx said:
I have one question:

Why do lots of haters or just lots of people who rate NGNL with 4 or lower watch
all 12 episodes, then rate it 4 or lower, then make a review about it why it's so bad???
Is it to tease the fanbase, or just giving an Anime a bad name is a fun thing to do?

An example for me, I really did not like Elfen Lied and as I watched the first episode I dropped it. But that was because I am very weak with blood and killing children, etc.
But I still appreciate the Anime and if I would succeed in dealing with the killing and the blood I would have enjoyed the Anime.

I didn't watch a full Anime, then rate it low and kept screaming on the forums why it's so bad ... -.-
There is just 0.000000000 enjoyment in doing that.

If you don't like an Anime, don't watch it and rate it low. Just watch an Anime you like.
And if you want to give a offensive review, well you should have some experiences with reviewing and not make your first review and make it offensive. If it's like your tenth review and it's offence, I'm more okay with that.


Well, 12 episodes are too easy to watch even if they're a cringefest. And how am I supposed to have a proper opinion on a show if I don't watch it completely? Do you think it's better to watch only one episode, drop it, and start saying it's shit with no concrete reasons? I'm free to watch any anime I want, disliking it or not, even if it's only for the purpose of knowing the medium better.

tbh, you sound like someone that doesn't want to listen/read valid criticism about your favorite anime.
Jul 5, 2014 7:34 AM
#210
ByronFlint

Offline
Jun 2013
42
First, 12 episodes are not that easy to watch :| I've been sticking to some 12 eps animes for months -.-

Oh, I forget to mention: I made that post because I saw people who watched the full Anime and then made a review with a very low rating

When you drop an anime after 1 episode, you MUST leave it. When I watch an anime and drop it, I don't even touch the reviews or series discussion. Only when you got something to say that is really important about that episode(s).

Of course you can watch a full anime and then dislike it, but in my rules of Anime watching it will never happen if you have a good sense of what you watch.

NGNL is in my favorites because I think it's one of the best Animes that I watched until now, but I know -even when haven't watch them- that One Piece or Toradora will be standing there after I finished it.
Actually it would be better if the favorites list had 20 slots :( because I just love all sorts of Anime!! :D

Seeing all those hate-comments of Animes motivates me more to
make an Anime that will never be hated! :D

On topic:
NGNL is so popular because NGNL is made to enjoy people. That was the first task of Kamiya, he added lots of ingredients to make the observer enjoy it.
When you watch the Anime Sora knows you there, and explains and entertains the things in the Anime to you!
Too bad there are people who can't stand the ingredients -_-
“The One With The Stronger Heart, Always Wins The Battle!!!”
[i]
Let's Go Out of Here..... Together..... (Yes, that red-car with a mustache is my car :D )
Jul 5, 2014 7:51 AM
#211
tabaha
Offline
Nov 2009
4
VortrexSx said:
First, 12 episodes are not that easy to watch :| I've been sticking to some 12 eps animes for months -.-

Oh, I forget to mention: I made that post because I saw people who watched the full Anime and then made a review with a very low rating

When you drop an anime after 1 episode, you MUST leave it. When I watch an anime and drop it, I don't even touch the reviews or series discussion. Only when you got something to say that is really important about that episode(s).

Of course you can watch a full anime and then dislike it, but in my rules of Anime watching it will never happen if you have a good sense of what you watch.

NGNL is in my favorites because I think it's one of the best Animes that I watched until now, but I know -even when haven't watch them- that One Piece or Toradora will be standing there after I finished it.
Actually it would be better if the favorites list had 20 slots :( because I just love all sorts of Anime!! :D

Seeing all those hate-comments of Animes motivates me more to
make an Anime that will never be hated! :D

On topic:
NGNL is so popular because NGNL is made to enjoy people. That was the first task of Kamiya, he added lots of ingredients to make the observer enjoy it.
When you watch the Anime Sora knows you there, and explains and entertains the things in the Anime to you!
Too bad there are people who can't stand the ingredients -_-

Why can't people make negative reviews? Is praise the only thing allowed, no matter how bad the anime is?
Jul 5, 2014 7:53 AM
#212
SolviteWoTaberu

Offline
Jan 2013
12227
Nidhoeggr said:
jreginald said:


lolwat.


One could argue it's more the other way around. Kill la Kill has some serious themes, but clearly is not that stuck up its own arse like NGNL is.


So what does that make you?
Jul 5, 2014 8:25 AM
#213
Nachteule

Offline
Sep 2013
66
because it has games in it's name which attracts the basement dwelling Otaku already, it is about video games in like the first episode so that makes it a show about video games (i read this A LOT), it is pseudo-intellectual (I heard people calling it deep), it has tons of fanservice, makes NEETs look cool and is total wish-fulfillment, features an 11 year old, at times overly sexualized 'super kawaii imouto x333', reference humor to make you feel smart when watching NGNL and oh, did I mention it's about GAMES?!

VortrexSx said:
I have one question:

Why do lots of haters or just lots of people who rate NGNL with 4 or lower watch
all 12 episodes, then rate it 4 or lower, then make a review about it why it's so bad???
Is it to tease the fanbase, or just giving an Anime a bad name is a fun thing to do?

An example for me, I really did not like Elfen Lied and as I watched the first episode I dropped it. But that was because I am very weak with blood and killing children, etc.
But I still appreciate the Anime and if I would succeed in dealing with the killing and the blood I would have enjoyed the Anime.

I didn't watch a full Anime, then rate it low and kept screaming on the forums why it's so bad ... -.-
There is just 0.000000000 enjoyment in doing that.

If you don't like an Anime, don't watch it and rate it low. Just watch an Anime you like.
And if you want to give a offensive review, well you should have some experiences with reviewing and not make your first review and make it offensive. If it's like your tenth review and it's offence, I'm more okay with that.


Are you serious?

This is also a general thing which bothered me during NGNL's airing and which is also common during airing anime... The rabid fanbases attack everyone not thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread and use phrases such as 'you can't give it a 4, you haven't seen the full show yet!!!' while themselves giving 9s and 10s.

Also, why is only praise okay? No critical thinking allowed? People giving NGNL a 10 in their first review which contains tons of broken English and is just two paragraphs long is offensive towards people like me as well; s-stop doing that!

Regarding dropping... I only drop shows if they are plain boring, dull and not entertaining. Shows can be so bad they can be entertaining or just bad.
Jul 5, 2014 11:29 AM
#214
short_review

Offline
Nov 2013
799
SlushyCoffee said:
Without any spoilers please explain to me why NGLN (No Game No Life) became sooo popular?


Cuz it's bad. People loooove bad things !
Jul 5, 2014 11:40 AM
#215
soits

Offline
Jul 2012
930
Well from the few episodes I've seen, MC is really good at games. I wish I was good like that. 10/10
Jul 5, 2014 11:41 AM
#216
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
TheLivingVirus said:
lso, why is only praise okay? No critical thinking allowed?


Because precious little critical thinking has been shown by people such as yourself. For the most part the detractors merely repeat platitudes such as "oh I hated the fanservice" (well tough, the show was tagged as etcchi even before it started, you only have yourself to blame for it), or "none of the games made sense" (actually all of them did, you just don't understand what they were about, and in complaining are only showing your own stupidity), or they say "there is no character development" (though of course there was, even the critics admit that there was and so they have to start excluding people).

So by all means display some "critical thinking", have an original criticism and the people here will praise you for your insight, however if all you can do is parrot what others have said before ad nauseum, then you probably shouldn't be surprised that people laugh at you.
Jul 5, 2014 12:13 PM
#217
Rizin_
Offline
May 2013
103
For me, I didn't care about the fanservices or comedy or anything. The protagonist is able to destroy his opponent in the most unexpected and badass way when being cornered, simply making my blood boiling with excitement. plus, the op is awesome, so why not???
Jul 5, 2014 12:22 PM
#218
DrGeroCreation

Offline
Aug 2013
14394
The funniest thing is how Sora knew more about Dishboard than Jibril even though Jibril is native to Dishboard and is very well read. Also how Sora can automatically adapt to games he hasn't played before and figure them out in a heartbeat.
Jul 5, 2014 12:37 PM
#219
Nyaa

Offline
Jan 2012
4769
Instead of wasting my time writing an appropriate response to this topic, I will just repost the words of wisdom of those who have come before...

Thread Summary:
Jul 5, 2014 4:44 PM
#220
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
DrGeroCreation said:
The funniest thing is how Sora knew more about Dishboard than Jibril even though Jibril is native to Dishboard and is very well read. Also how Sora can automatically adapt to games he hasn't played before and figure them out in a heartbeat.


We learned in episode 6 that Jibiriru had no natural curiosity and was only into "knowledge" for the sake of "knowing" it, not "applying" it. Remember the whole "empty headed academic" bit?

And this is also understandable in that Jibiriru was created to be a weapon and her whole existence was spent killing things, when that was prohibited all she did was to shut herself into library to read the books.
So it isn't exactly surprising that Jibiriru knows next to nothing about races she considers her inferiors, which would include pretty much everyone we have met.

Now if you have a specific example, we could discuss that and whether or not you have a legitimate compliant, but as for your general statement, the animation itself explained it. Please do pay attention.
Jul 5, 2014 5:08 PM
#221
GreenBenjamin

Offline
Jan 2014
492
Houndthree said:
lol mal ratings
Pretty much this quote right here. I think it's real fun though.
Jul 5, 2014 5:17 PM
#222
throwaway111
Offline
Jan 2014
3670
thats kinda why I liked NGNL. Remember, its not about realism. Its about overpowered MCs that crush enemies in entertaining ways. The chess game in the beginning was still shit though (they played like retards, both Blank and the god)
Jul 5, 2014 5:39 PM
#223
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
Jibril's game was interesting at first, but at the end when they were actually in a pinch and couldn't talk they had to pull the "huehue we're geniuses, we planned out the next 50 steps because we're so SMART and prepared this piece of paper forever ago. all according to keikaku". Sure, they gave a (poor) reason that they suggested the phrase that Jibril should use, but that was completely arbitrary and they would have died if she chose a different phrase, which was entirely possible.


Let's take this one since the rest is basically the same.

Sora had the game figured out before he even met Jibiriru. He asked Steph whether it was true that the Flugel only played one game. He also had Jibiriru's personality down before the first move, and after the first move when he said "I guess there is no way to stop you" that showed that he knew the only way to win was to kill her with the hypernova (if an atomic bomb didn't phase her, dropping her into discboard's core wasn't going to phase her).

So Sora had this all worked out BEFORE he met her, this is why Shiro knew all the words once they got serious. As for her using the word, there was nothing far fetched about it. Of course she was going to use it, her pride made it all too predictable.

The episode gave you all the points needed to understand things before they occurred, the problem is that most people didn't pay attention or expected it to be completely spoon fed to them.
Jul 5, 2014 6:26 PM
#224
fst

Offline
Mar 2013
20064
Forgetfulness said:
If you consider them all the same, then would you mind attempting to explain the final game and the coin toss? Final game had no foreshadowing and coin toss was simply physically impossible


The FPS game? they knew what the game was going in though, thanks to the old king's porn stash notes.

And if it bothers you that the coin toss was physically impossible, you're taking things too seriously. It's just not that kind of show, so if you start thinking like that, you're preventing yourself from enjoying the show.

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview
Jul 5, 2014 6:39 PM
#225
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
If you consider them all the same, then would you mind attempting to explain the final game and the coin toss? Final game had no foreshadowing and coin toss was simply physically impossible

I'm just going to have to disagree with you on the shiritori game. Yes, I know he suggested the phrase, but that would only increase the chances of it happening. He never absolutely cornered Jibril and probably didn't even have a backup plan for if she didn't follow along according to his keikaku


Actually there was a ton of foreshadowing. They knew that it was a video game, they knew that the warbeasts pretended to be able to read minds, but were really using their reflexes as a dodge. So that it was going to be a hunting game was pretty obvious (since it plays to the warbeast's strengths). They knew that Izutan had the blood power before they started the game (this was mentioned an episode or two prior), so they pretty much knew that the only way to defeat her was a surprise attack either in mid air or from someone in Steph's position (because the mind reading was a cover for cheating).

They also knew far more about video games and programming than the warbeasts (this goes back to the first episode), so that Shiro could figure out the algorithm behind the NPC's was not that much of a stretch since it was probably a pretty easy one (given that the Warbeasts didn't have much experience at making games it would have been something pretty noticeable to them by playing the game).

I will say that the reversi game was the worse game, however on the episode thread people who have read the novel posted dialog that showing Shiro's thought process why it wasn't that much of a stretch. So I chalk that one up to time restrictions, but even saying this there was enough of a gloss so it wasn't that annoying.

As for the chess game, two things, 1) Kurami's said that the players moved on their own, so motivation was the real key aspect to the strategy. Sora provided it. 2) with the Queen, Knight, and King, the writer relied on the chivalry stereotypes underlying those pieces: queens want romance, knights want to fight for their queen, Kings are supposed to act noble. That last one was how he got Kurami to self destruct.
Takuan_SohoJul 5, 2014 7:02 PM
Jul 5, 2014 6:55 PM
#226
fst

Offline
Mar 2013
20064
Yea, the ending of that one was out of nowhere and it wasn't forshadowed much, which generally isn't good, but it was Steph half naked riding one of the NPCs firing the game winning shot with her eyes closed. That kinda makes up for it.

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview
Jul 5, 2014 7:13 PM
#227
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
So basically you are proving that it was possible for it to happen, not that them using Steph was foreshadowed at all. Because afaik, it wasn't really and almost all the explanations come after the shooting


No, what I am showing is that the author laid the groundwork before it happened, and then explained it after the fact. This is normally how these things are done, only a handful of mysteries for example start with explaining who the murderer is and how they did it, but along the way they drop hints so at the end you can say, okay now I get this. That is what this show did.

You're supposed to get the explanation and then go back and piece it together. Try it, it holds together. As a simple example in the first episode, while they didn't explain how Sora won the poker game, the only thing that made sense was that he had palmed the cards from somewhere. Assuming this I wanted to see if this was possible, and lo it was, Sora had won a deck from the bandits (which was shown but not commented on).

A lot of the pleasure I have gotten from this show is that I didn't know what was going to happen, but upon it happening I went back and found all these little hints that in retrospect had great implications. From what the readers have said on these threads it appears that the novels do an even better job at it, but I have to hand it to the adapters: on this show they did a good job at providing enough (the reversi game I think was the weakest, but the animation on it was great so as FST says above, that kinda makes up for it.
Jul 5, 2014 7:41 PM
#228
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
I don't believe Sora and Shiro stated beforehand that they were going to launch a surprise attack (I'm actually very uncertain about this, so correct me if I'm wrong) and they most definitely did not state that they would take advantage of the game's algorithms nor that their strategy would finally hinge off of Steph; they explain that they commanded Steph to do such and such AFTER the game was won, not before. In both Detective A and NGNL, having these skills is PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for Shiro and Sora but they do not show that they will use those skills before the result is announced.
Most of these things are just chalked up to Shiro/Sora being omniscient geniuses and having the potential to do almost any skill, but it would be better if they showed which skills were going to be used beforehand


The characters don't have to "state" things, you are supposed to figure things out for yourself. We knew before the game that the Warbeasts were cheating, that Blanks first move was to force Izutan out the window so that Jibiriru could distract her and Sora could snipe her in mid air were clues that Blank knew that a surprise attack was the only way to win.

And while they didn't say that Shiro could figure out the algorithms, in the first episode it was shown that Blank could account for a player cheating and how may times did they say that Shiro was an incredible mathematician? That this ability to break apart a game was likewise hinted at in the first episode.

So no, every game was a b, you just have to pay attention.
Jul 5, 2014 7:47 PM
#229
throwaway111
Offline
Jan 2014
3670
The last game wasnt a B. You cant possibly deduce their final winning-strategy with the little facts you have without making assumptions and jumping to conclusions like crazy. They want you to think that it was a B, but it really isnt.
Jul 6, 2014 12:53 PM
#230
AashFenton

Offline
Sep 2012
133
GreenBenjamin said:
Houndthree said:
lol mal ratings
Pretty much this quote right here. I think it's real fun though.

LOOOOL True tho
Jul 6, 2014 3:59 PM
#231
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
3. They could should that Shiro did something to Steph beforehand. Again! They do not have to show all the details about how he bound her to follow his instructions, they just have to fucking imply that something happened


You mean something like casting a spell on her?

Forgetfulness said:
1. Shiro could show Steph some of the writings on the ground.


Bet you didn't notice that after Sora/Jibiriru shot Steph (returning her to being an ally) and before Izutan showed up, Steph disappeared? That should have been a hint that they did something to her.

Another explanation that they gave before was that being in contact with an NPC drains your energy (as stated last episode), this was an important clue because they figured out how much time it took Steph to be drained and then used that as part of their calculation this episode. The importance of this is that they knew how much time they had between Jibiriru hitting Steph and when Steph had to fire.

Another explanation that they gave was that shots ricochet, so they knew where Jibiriu's shot was going to go. Another explanation they gave before (in 11) was that Shiro could calculate her enemy's movements (if she can do that to living people, NPCs would be a cake walk). So knowing the NPCs meant they knew the location and the time, all they had to do to make it work was to guide Izutan to the location.

Foreshadowing that Shiro could predict likely movements was also done back in 5 when she bet Steph on whether the next person would be male or female.

So again, there was plenty of clues strewn about that shows that author knew where he was going to do.
Jul 6, 2014 5:42 PM
#232
mirailianil
Offline
Dec 2011
33
Forgetfulness said:
Care to explain Sora's "Bringing [Steph] along was a mistake" comment then?
Actually if you rewatch the two episodes, you can probably find a lot more similar flaws. After Shiro is "captured", Sora and Jibril explicitly say to each other that they don't have the knowledge that would be required to pull off SOOPER SECRET ULTERIOR ULTRA GENIUS MASTER PLAN!!. However, after their SOOPER SECRET ULTERIOR ULTRA GENIUS MASTER PLAN!! is revealed, the flashback shows that Jibril was right in front of Steph while she read the plan out loud. Inconsistency much?

I will only answer this part for now and let others more knowledgeable to answer the rest

You need to remember all their action were being observed by Ino. And suppose Sora inferred that somehow Izuna was able to get the information from outside observation, do you really think it is wise to say that "Oh, Steph is our super secret plan" in game? The reason the plan was a success was because everyone else forgot about Steph. So, saying "bringing Steph is a mistake", in a way making Steph more out of focus from enemy's mind.

About Sora and Jibril not knowing Shiro's plan, They knew how it will end, but probably not the middle part. That was Shiro's part. The way I see it, [Blank]'s plan consists of multiple parts. Plan A: Shiro attack.If failed, Plan B:Jibril Ambush. If failed, Plan C: Sora snipe and so on. Plan Steph is the last resort when all else failed, the failsafe, the surefire way, since all the plan before that made the enemies ignore Steph. If the enemies heard Steph saying the orders out loud (hug npc, close eyes and shoot before love meter ran out) it is likely that the enemies thought Shiro was trying to make Steph busy and not being a hindrance, seeing that the orders seemed to be nonsensical.
Jul 6, 2014 5:48 PM
#233
PriestSlayer

Offline
Dec 2013
6607
I'm surprised this thread is still ongoing
FragOutFire said:

Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain.

We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us
Jul 6, 2014 5:57 PM
#234
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
Do they show that happening beforehand? If so, could you please give me the time that it happened in the episode?


Episode 10, around 16:30. Thanks for asking because I just realized that this is even MORE important than I had thought. The reason Sora could cast a spell on Steph was because of a game they played in the fifth episode, and the scene they showed as a flashback was immediately before Sora told Steph that there were no true games in this world, people only played when they knew they could win. That is an absolutely brilliant bit of foreshadowing.

Before you ask how he could have known to state that command, in episode 8 Sora showed to us that the warbeasts couldn't read minds, so this showed that the cheat in the game (which Sora also stated in 8 would be a video game) involved doing something that the warbeasts would have to claim that they could mind reads to provide a cover for. This is why Sora knew before the game started that they probably would need something like Steph being ignorant of what she was doing was needed to win.

Forgetfulness said:
That's part of the basic premise of the game, that's not foreshadowing.


No, it was foreshadowing disguised as being a basic premise of the game. What raises this show above merely being clever is how Blank adapts the rules that their opponents state to further they goal. As with Kurumi and the chess game (to cover for her cheating she introduced piece motivation into the equation, Sora took that and ran with it), likewise here once they heard about the draining, they kept that point in mind when they had to switch to their alternative strategy (this was made clear in episode 11 in the park, their first goal was to force Izutan into a snipe position, Sora's second strategy was based on his faith (which he stated) that Shiro could figure out a second one) (and even this was foreshadowed when Kurumi pointed out how "lucky" they had been).

Forgetfulness said:
How many times do I have to say the same thing? Having the ability to do something does not imply that they will use it.


I would suggest you read up on "Chekhov's gun". A work of fiction doesn't mention or show something unless they are going to use it. Your point is true in reality, but fiction isn't reality, so when an author points to something you bloodly well know that it is going to be fired. This is what makes this show better than the norm in its class, the author (and the adapters) do wave the "gun" around.
Jul 6, 2014 6:00 PM
#235
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
1. Actually, you're wrong. If you rewatch the the flashbacks, Steph reads the entire plan out loud so if Ino was actually listening in on them then their entire plan would have failed. But since it didn't, that theory is invalid.


You are correct, what Ino was watching was movements and intents, not actually viewing in real time. This ties into the warbeasts ability to read physical reactions (explained in episode 8). Having Steph being carried by a NPC eliminated Ino's ability to track her movement, having her not know what she was doing eliminated her intent, combined this made her invisible to Ino.
Jul 6, 2014 6:36 PM
#236
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
Perhaps the draining was used, but they did not show anything regarding calculating time as you said they did.


Show? No. Say? Yes. In episode 12 Sora actually stated that Steph shouldn't do anything until her energy was about to be drained and then to fire. As I stated above this was important because this created a time limitation that Blank was aware of (as explained in episode 11).

Forgetfulness said:
And by the way, their prediction of male/female and figuring out NPC algorithms aren't comparable. The prediction is simply statistical quantities while algorithms are something else


Fine, Shiro figured out the STATISTICS behind it, not the algorithm. Though I do have to say, if that is all your argument is reduced to you should just surrender.

Forgetfulness said:
By the way, would you mind not dodging the question I've posed twice already? Or do you not want to argue about it?


Sure, what question is that? It isn't that I have been "dodging" it, rather that in your wall of texts I just haven't noticed it.
Jul 6, 2014 6:39 PM
#237
mirailianil
Offline
Dec 2011
33
Forgetfulness said:
mirailianil said:

I will only answer this part for now. You need to remember all their action were being observed by Ino. And suppose Sora inferred that somehow Izuna was able to get the information from outside observation, do you really think it is wise to say that "Oh, Steph is our super secret plan" in game? The reason the plan was a success was because everyone else forgot about Steph. So, saying "bringing Steph is a mistake", in a way making Steph more out of focus from enemy's mind.

About Sora and Jibril not knowing Shiro's plan, They knew how it will end, but probably not the middle part. That was Shiro's part. The way I see it, [Blank]'s plan consists of multiple parts. Plan A: Shiro attack.If failed, Plan B:Jibril Ambush. If failed, Plan C: Sora snipe and so on. Plan Steph is the last resort when all else failed, the failsafe, the surefire way, since all the plan before that made the enemies ignore Steph. If the enemies heard Steph saying the orders out loud (hug npc, close eyes and shoot before love meter ran out) it is likely that the enemies thought Shiro was trying to make Steph busy and not being a hindrance, seeing that the orders seemed to be nonsensical.
1. Actually, you're wrong. If you rewatch the the flashbacks, Steph reads the entire plan out loud so if Ino was actually listening in on them then their entire plan would have failed. But since it didn't, that theory is invalid.

2. The knowledge they claim to lack was necessary for the "final resort". And Sora definitely knew what the plan was. He claimed that he was setting up the "final resort" before the game even started (binding Steph to follow instructions) and right when the game ends, he knew enough to explain the entire strategy by himself.
1.This is what was said by Steph in flashback:When your love power is restored, wait till love power is almost out and shoot straight ahead(or something like that). At a glance, without the knowledge behind the order, The order seemed nonsensical. Owing to the fact that the warbeast dont consider a threat anymore, even her allies said bringing her was a mistake, it is reasonable that maybe others assume that Shiro wanted to distract Steph from hindering their real plan.
2. Sora and Jibril knew the overall plan, but Sora also said that he left most of the planning to Shiro. So he doesnt know the precise details of the plan. That was mostly left to Shiro. Thats why they were at loss of what to do when Shiro seemed to get shot. Sora knew she has a plan, but not the details. And for someone like him, it is quite possible that he will figure out the rest of the plan at the end
Jul 6, 2014 6:47 PM
#238
mirailianil
Offline
Dec 2011
33
Forgetfulness said:
Takuan_Soho said:
Sure, what question is that? It isn't that I have been "dodging" it, rather that in your wall of texts I just haven't noticed it.
Why does Sora make claims that are directly contradictory to their plan when nobody was eavsedropping on them?
Most notably, "Bringing Steph was a mistake"
Are you sure nobody was eavesdropping on them?
Jul 6, 2014 7:12 PM
#239
Takuan_Soho
Offline
Oct 2012
6648
Forgetfulness said:
Either one of two things could happen, and I'm fairly certain neither make sense

1. They were eavesdropping: Ino hears that bringing Steph is a mistake and is "baited" into lowering his guard, then immediately after he hears the "plan". And contrary to what you say, I think that information is more than enough to figure out that Steph is part of the plan and will be shooting
2. They weren't eavesdropping. The plan is not heard, but Sora/Shiro also have no reason to say bullshit out loud to themselves

And I think 2. is what actually happens in the anime


1) There was nothing given to the warbeasts to make them think that Steph was anything more than what Sora said out loud. Where would you say that the "information" leads to a different conclusion. Steph had been helpless from the start.

2) Outside of Sora wouldn't have known whether that warbeasts were listening so your distinction is false, there is that lovely Japanese quote "in order to trick your enemies you first have to trick your friends". Blank didn't even let Jibiriru onto their ruse, which is why Sora thanked her for doing what he ordered. Her response implied that she didn't know WHAT the plan was, but would obey whatever they ordered with faith that they did have a point (which she learned in episode 7 and 10 and 12).
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