Why Do People Like Sena So Much?

Takuan_Soho said:
Can't remember if this is from the show or the LN, but Maria's inability to act decently in society was why Kate had to bring Maria to the school so she could keep an eye on her. I didn't say that there was interaction between the two, indeed that would be out of character for Yozora, she doesn't interact unless she needs to, however it has been shown that Yozora is aware of her surroundings and probably would have noticed Maria.

She wasn't "tricked" so much as her arrogance makes her do stupid things. "Tricked" implies that Yozora did something dishonest to get Sena to do something, whereas all Yozora did was to appeal to Sena's vanity and Sena did it to herself.

Use deception to make someone do (something).

Kate implied otherwise, saying that Maria liked to show off her intelligence. Yozora attacked in the Yozora fashion, using one's own argument against them. She did this not only to Yusa, but it is also her favorite tactic against Sena. I don't think it is much of a stretch to think she did the same thing to Maria.

Maria humble? That is more of a stretch than my stretch :-)

I would have to disagree with you there. They had NO intentions of doing a "good job". Kodaka even knew how it was going to end, calling them merciless. This is why I am suspicious of the "apology", however since the writer hasn't commented we will never know how earnest or why exactly they apologized.

a good tragic ending is better than an average happy ending. As long as it fits the story, either way is fine.

vh1sld said:


Thank you for your insight and analysis. It was quite in depth. I do, however, want to address some of the points you have made.
1. The nickname "meat" cannot only focus on Sena's dumb moments. She also sees Sena as, well, a steryotypical slut, with her rich family, beautiful looks, and boys who follow her around. Yet Sena has proven she is much more. She's a talented, compassionate person who wants to make friends and is also mean to Yozora, but only because Yozora caused her so much trouble. I mean, she said Sera had cowtits. In your many views of the show, how many times do you remember her saying that? There was even a cow sound effect occasionally. That is a quality. I do agree that the first statement about bullying. Yes she is dumb a lot. But it's more than that. The "bullying" may not be fully encompassed by what I, you, or both our opinions combined say it is, but it is more than just about Sena's gullibility and dumb moments.
2. The reason I say Sena does not acknowledge the boys who follow her around is because she realized that they are not real friends. Her maturity allowed her to seek out real friends.

The rest of your comments were spot on in my opinion. Especially the view on Yozora. I hope by now she has finally realized what Kodaka means to her, and that she can muster up the courage to do something about it. Maybe she will soon realize that.

To be honest, I started watching anime on the 8th of this month (lol). And finished Haganai this weekend (a lot of free time). If there are any more objections, feel free to add. Lastly, If you know any series worth getting into, preferably short or just starting out, please let me know.

Jamada said:
I believe we started off this chain of conversation over the question of whether or not Sena was easy to trick.

We're really arguing semantics now. Back at the beginning my point wasn't that Yozora doesn't "trick" people, but rather that it is Sena's vanity that is far more responsible for being "tricked". The "stacked hair" episode you mentioned is a perfect example. One could say that Yozora "tricked" Sena into becoming a model, but was that really a "trick"? Stacked hair does exist, what happened was that Yozora knew that Sena could not stand being compared to a mere "commoner" and would demand that they do it to her. Yozora exploited Sena's vanity. That really isn't using "deception".


There is an old CS Lewis line "you can't fool an honest man". While that isn't entirely true, there is an important point there. Sena is the one for contempt for average person, who insists in being treated like a "goddess". Yozora may be deceptive, but when it comes to Yozora-Sena's interpersonal dynamics, it isn't as if Yozora has ever pretended to be Sena's friend or hasn't stated her intentions. Sena just refuses to accept it (primarily because she can't believe someone really doesn't like her). To use a simile, it would be like playing poker and your opponent shows you how he has four aces hidden in his sleeve and declares his intention of using them, and then you play a hand and he
wins by having four aces. That is a "trick", but in this instance would you really call what he did a trick?


Not really. You quoted Kate, Kate called Maria "conceited". That means Maria had an excessive opinion of herself (in this case her intelligence). That isn't mere "showing off", in order to be conceited you have to unduly rank yourself above others, and since you can never be more than what you are, in order to be conceited you have to view those around you as being lower than they are. Being conceited is the very essence of "looking down" on people.


But we know that Yozora is bright, she did not worry about Maria because Yozora had an accurate read on Maria. Notice that even after learning that she had been tricked, Maria never went to anyone to report it, because Yozora knew that Maria wanted to be thought as of an adult. In this way Maria is very similar to Sena. If you think about it Yozora screwing with the Chairman's daughter isn't "very bright", but Yozora knows that Sena won't report her because to do so would be for Sena to admit that she isn't "all that". Which Sena is incapable of doing. For Maria, to report would mean that she is a child, and Maria can't take that thought either (note how depressed she was when Yusa pointed out that she wasn't a teacher.
Of course Maria was taught religious teachings, she quotes them all the time - but like many "smart" children she knows the words, not the meanings. Seeing herself as a "disciple of god" is the core of her being. And of course she would have called others poop for no reason, Maria has a scatological fetish she even makes soap piles when bathing.


Have you ever dealt with people who have an inflated belief in their own knowledge? They can't admit that they "don't know" because of their arrogance, not their humility. They try to bluster their way through saying "of course I knew that".


That is backwards. The prank wasn't just to make the hairdo, but to have Sena parade around with it thinking she was cool. So they didn't laugh because they hadn't "pranked" Sena yet.

MaffleWaffle said:
Because we heard that you hate her.

Takuan_Soho said:
We're really arguing semantics now. Back at the beginning my point wasn't that Yozora doesn't "trick" people, but rather that it is Sena's vanity that is far more responsible for being "tricked". The "stacked hair" episode you mentioned is a perfect example. One could say that Yozora "tricked" Sena into becoming a model, but was that really a "trick"? Stacked hair does exist, what happened was that Yozora knew that Sena could not stand being compared to a mere "commoner" and would demand that they do it to her. Yozora exploited Sena's vanity. That really isn't using "deception".

There is an old CS Lewis line "you can't fool an honest man". While that isn't entirely true, there is an important point there. Sena is the one for contempt for average person, who insists in being treated like a "goddess". Yozora may be deceptive, but when it comes to Yozora-Sena's interpersonal dynamics, it isn't as if Yozora has ever pretended to be Sena's friend or hasn't stated her intentions. Sena just refuses to accept it (primarily because she can't believe someone really doesn't like her). To use a simile, it would be like playing poker and your opponent shows you how he has four aces hidden in his sleeve and declares his intention of using them, and then you play a hand and he wins by having four aces. That is a "trick", but in this instance would you really call what he did a trick?

Not really. You quoted Kate, Kate called Maria "conceited". That means Maria had an excessive opinion of herself (in this case her intelligence). That isn't mere "showing off", in order to be conceited you have to unduly rank yourself above others, and since you can never be more than what you are, in order to be conceited you have to view those around you as being lower than they are. Being conceited is the very essence of "looking down" on people.

But we know that Yozora is bright, she did not worry about Maria because Yozora had an accurate read on Maria. Notice that even after learning that she had been tricked, Maria never went to anyone to report it, because Yozora knew that Maria wanted to be thought as of an adult.

If you think about it Yozora screwing with the Chairman's daughter isn't "very bright", but Yozora knows that Sena won't report her because to do so would be for Sena to admit that she isn't "all that".

For Maria, to report would mean that she is a child, and Maria can't take that thought either (note how depressed she was when Yusa pointed out that she wasn't a teacher.

Of course Maria was taught religious teachings, she quotes them all the time - but like many "smart" children she knows the words, not the meanings.

Seeing herself as a "disciple of god" is the core of her being.

And of course she would have called others poop for no reason, Maria has a scatological fetish she even makes soap piles when bathing.

Have you ever dealt with people who have an inflated belief in their own knowledge? They can't admit that they "don't know" because of their arrogance, not their humility. They try to bluster their way through saying "of course I knew that".

That is backwards. The prank wasn't just to make the hairdo, but to have Sena parade around with it thinking she was cool. So they didn't laugh because they hadn't "pranked" Sena yet.

Jamada said:
Sena understands that most girls don't like her;

Jamada said:
However, she hasn't actually done much to earn other people's enmity.

Jamada said:
Simply put, Sena's arrogant because she's got the goods - prestige, grades, looks, and even athleticism - and she gets resented by others because she's overly proud of her assets. But, in my opinion, such resentment isn't truly justified;

Jamada said:
rather, it seems to stem from petty jealousy. Yozora, who hadn't even met Sena before (and hadn't yet witnessed Sena's arrogance in person) ...... That's an incredibly superficial reason to resent someone you haven't even met. Immediately after, she mentions that she's heard about Sena's personality being bad, but that was an afterthought - justification to convince Kodaka that Sena shouldn't even be let into the room.

Jamada said:
Sena's most assuredly arrogant, but when Yukimura is introduced and asks Kodaka for help. She didn't know Yukimura, but she doesn't automatically look down on "him" in any way.

Jamada said:
I've even see some people make the argument that Yozora had Yukimura join the club specifically to isolate Kodaka even further from his classmates.

Jamada said:
There's no way Yozora would have known this when she just met Maria; she had no read at all, much less an accurate one. It was an "educated guess" at best, but a guess nonetheless. My point was that Yozora could have made a terrible mistake that could have ended up with her being severely punished. It was a rash decision. It's only in the second interaction (Maria's introductory chapter) where she finds out for sure that Maria is weak to appeals to scripture; she couldn't have known for the first interaction because she hadn't yet conversed with Maria before resorting to violence.

Jamada said:
This is a completely different case. Sena would be wrongfully abusing the chairman's position. As such, Yozora's defense would be obvious even if Sena were to ask daddy for help. This can actually be considered a well calculated risk (in vast contrast with her first interaction with Maria). Also, she used violence against Maria but not against Sena.

Jamada said:
If she really were taught the words, then she'd be able to see through Yozora's blatant lies and would have responded with the obvious - "I've never heard of such a thing". And if she were conceited in her knowledge of religious teachings, then she would have added "You're wrong."

Jamada said:
Since she didn't respond like that, it's clear that she's not up to snuff on her religious learning nor is she full of herself - at least not when it comes to religion.

Jamada said:
In my opinion, it's only after Yozora directly bypasses Maria's superior (secular) education that Maria resorts to childish retorts.

Takuan_Soho said:

I would disagree, she doesn't "understand", Sena just assumes it...

I find it amusing when Sena fans go on about how Sena has "developed" so much. Sena hasn't changed a bit, indeed she has gotten worse. Sena doesn't know that the other girls "hate" her, she just assumes it. Note that "getting along with Sena" is defined by Sena, it has nothing to do with the other person. Kobata loathes Sena, but Sena desires Kobata so they get along; Yusa obviously worships Sena, but since Sena doesn't care about Yusa they don't get along and so Yusa falls into the "bitch" category. We have no idea what the girls really think about Sena since we only have Sena's demented world view filtering what is really going on.

Takuan_Soho said:
There is no proof either way, but I would point out that Yozora doesn't appear stupid in other places, generally she only lost to Sena's incredible luck and Yukimura's total obsession. So to think that she approached Maria without knowing a lot about Maria seems out of character. Remember Yozora is weak around people she doesn't know. Standing up to Yusa nearly floored her.

Takuan_Soho said:
I would disagree, she doesn't "understand", Sena just assumes it. The Yusa chapter in Issue 7 shows this:

Since this happens in the 7th volume before Yusa tried anything, I find it amusing when Sena fans go on about how Sena has "developed" so much. Sena hasn't changed a bit, indeed she has gotten worse. Sena doesn't know that the other girls "hate" her, she just assumes it. Note that "getting along with Sena" is defined by Sena, it has nothing to do with the other person. Kobata loathes Sena, but Sena desires Kobata so they get along; Yusa obviously worships Sena, but since Sena doesn't care about Yusa they don't get along and so Yusa falls into the "bitch" category. We have no idea what the girls really think about Sena since we only have Sena's demented world view filtering what is really going on.

If there is one steady argument I would make to your points it is that you have to stop reading the dialog literally and accepting it. The writer isn't that simple. You have to take everything that Kodaka says with a healthy heaping of salt, his obliviousness to the actual emotions of those around him is the main theme of this series.

That statement is incredible. You saw how she treated the guys at the pool, the Yusa episode shows how she views her fellow students both male and female. Similar to the idea that "Sena has developed", the idea that Sena is in any way a victim is ridiculous.

No matter how smart, athletic or talented one is, it doesn't justify treating people the way Sena treats everyone. Want to be hated? Look down on people.

I wouldn't hold Yozora up as a "typical" person. We know she has issues with popular people that are, in Kodaka's opinion, petty.

Depends on whether you think assuming someone is pitiable is "looking down" or not. It may be only my personal opinion, but I'd rather something think about "using" me than "pitying" me.

There is no proof either way, but I would point out that Yozora doesn't appear stupid in other places, generally she only lost to Sena's incredible luck and Yukimura's total obsession. So to think that she approached Maria without knowing a lot about Maria seems out of character. Remember Yozora is weak around people she doesn't know. Standing up to Yusa nearly floored her.

No violence? Flyswatter? Also Pegasus told Sena to exploit her power (I think that is in the LN when Sena got Maria promoted). Sena threatened to have Yusa expelled, and Sena wasn't joking. What greater abuse could their be?

I quote scripture to "religious" people all the time. They have no idea what is actually in the bible. Yozora is a dangerous opponent because she is actually smart. How many people know what the Apocrypha is? Most of what Yozora said tracks with what most people think, that makes accepting the rest easier.

Your missing the point. It isn't that Maria is up to snuff on her knowledge, its that she THINKS she is up to snuff on it and can't bear the thought of being proven wrong. Therefore to maintain the appearance that she knows she accepts Yozora's line of bull, because to challenge and lose is what she fears the most.

Given how Kate both treats Maria and her own action (farting in public), I think it is safe to assume that Maria didn't change her behavior.

Gotta run, but as for the hairstyle, I would recall that Kodaka is not an impartial or insightful observer, you have to take character into account. Do you honestly think that Yozora or Rika would think putting Bugs into someone's hair was "artistic". Yukimura, with her fascination for Sengoku period helmets was into it from the beginning, but Yozora in particular would NEVER put her hair up. She can't tolerate even being looked at (as noted with how she reacted to Yusa and in the train). Of course she was being sarcastic. Rika, maybe I could by was impressed, but not Yozora, her words were completely out of character.

worldliner_ai said:
Yozora - She wants a club with Kodaka alone. However, she makes a hard-to-understand poster that gets cracked by Sena and Rika. Then Yozora becomes pissed at the poster. Why would she even need to make that poster is she is not interested in additional members?

BloodyNightsky said:
The theory might make sense but even from Yozora's point of view the story is the same.She just played tsundere when she remembered "So basically it's your fault!".
From what I'm reading right now in Haganai CONNECT ,

Jamada said:
I just read the manga chapter titled "CONNECT". I'm not sure how closely it resembles the novel, but it was a very interesting read. It still leaves huge gaps in Yozora's past, but the first interaction between Maria and Yozora makes more sense in the manga than in the anime. It's much more believable.

othao said:
CONNECT is part of the Hanganai LN series and is written by Yomi Hirasaka (the author for all the LN). It follows the storyline, so there's no reason to think otherwise. The author himself recommends readers to read CONNECT before Volume 9 of the LN - which is expected to be published on 23 Aug 2013. Finally!!

worldliner_ai said:


I cannot find any official source that LN Vol. 9 will be published on 8/23. I think the release date is just an estimate and there is good chance this volume will get delayed again.

All I found on MF's website is that the Blu-Ray and DVDs for NEXT 2-6 all got delayed. Volume 2 was to have been released in a few days, but that has moved to end of August. The other volumes are subsequently delayed as well. I seriously doubt LN Vol. 9 will be ready then.

othao said:


CONNECT is part of the Hanganai LN series and is written by Yomi Hirasaka (the author for all the LN). It follows the storyline, so there's no reason to think otherwise. The author himself recommends readers to read CONNECT before Volume 9 of the LN - which is expected to be published on 23 Aug 2013. Finally!!

SakurasouBusters said:
Because she's nice and sweet at heart, and her naive nature is adorable!

chaos86 said:
Sena is more sincere. Tbh both Sena and Yozora have good chemistry with Kodaka but personally I admire Sena's honesty plus she's really smart too. A lot of people said that she's only popular because of tits but I find her tits drawn unrealistically so it's not that attractive.

Even if Sena has the same boob size as Yozora, she'd still be the more adorable given her naivety and moe factor while Yozora is too much of a tsundere (and that's pushing it given she has much more "tsun" than "dere"). Tsundere is only attractive if there's a right balance like Sena.

BloodyNightsky said:
Sena is not a tsundere . Yozora doesnt know what a love relationship is , she thinks that what she feels for Kodaka is friendship , she cant explain why does she feel impressed and in her own ignorance she doesnt share her thoughts to Rika , who is her great ally and friend , to sort things out . She wanted the 10years ago relationship , having fun and laughing at each others stupidity . At the moment of the anime , she tries to resemble that but she cant explain herself why she gets jelous . She tried to make Yukmura look less attractive . Yozora basically is a newb in love . She doesnt know even the basics .
Sena wouldnt be popular to begin with because having someone that doesnt appeal acting with arrogance , overwhelming arrogance . Arrogance that Yozora is cutting everytime she shows up in Sena .
Belive it or not but her looks contributed ALOT for her popularity . Because NO ONE WOULD LIKE SOMEONE THAT THINKS OF HERSELF BEING A GODDESS , that's the lvl of arrogance she has . Imagine Yozora having that arrogance and cut the strong personality she has . Yeah , she would have been hated from the moment she would have appeared in the anime .

BloodyNightsky said:
Sena is not a tsundere . [...] .

BloodyNightsky said:
You totally got wrong what I've said in my post you've quoted .
A character that appeals to the eye will diminish the viewers judgement on that character . Arrogance was never forgiven , Sena's atitude was never forgiven but surprise-surprise , what Sena has and Yozora doesnt?
Both are bad personality wise , Sena with hear massive arrogance and weird fetishes and Yozora with her.....erm....."bullying" and complexes .

What people keep missunderstand or rather ignore is that everytime Yozora and Rika are "bullying" her is when she literally asks for it aka her arrogance comes to surface .
Examples?
See the scene with the haircut , see the scene with the fortune . In every scene , every single of them the "bully" started when Sena shown arrogance .
The verbal abuse is various , either she really looked like a walking porn scene or it was out of complex of inferiority.

The only archtype that it is clear is dandere which is represented by Yukimura . There are no archtypes aside of that . Yozora isnt a tsundere , Sena isnt a tsundere and it isnt a matter of interpretation .
Sena never goes from "cold" to "hot" , Yozora is always "cold" and shows her caring side in her own way which Kodaka ...... doesnt see .

BloodyNightsky said:
You totally got wrong what I've said in my post you've quoted .
A character that appeals to the eye will diminish the viewers judgement on that character . Arrogance was never forgiven , Sena's atitude was never forgiven but surprise-surprise , what Sena has and Yozora doesnt?
Both are bad personality wise , Sena with hear massive arrogance and weird fetishes and Yozora with her.....erm....."bullying" and complexes .

What people keep missunderstand or rather ignore is that everytime Yozora and Rika are "bullying" her is when she literally asks for it aka her arrogance comes to surface .
Examples?
See the scene with the haircut , see the scene with the fortune . In every scene , every single of them the "bully" started when Sena shown arrogance .
The verbal abuse is various , either she really looked like a walking porn scene or it was out of complex of inferiority.

The only archtype that it is clear is dandere which is represented by Yukimura . There are no archtypes aside of that . Yozora isnt a tsundere , Sena isnt a tsundere and it isnt a matter of interpretation .
Sena never goes from "cold" to "hot" , Yozora is always "cold" and shows her caring side in her own way which Kodaka ...... doesnt see .

BloodyNightsky said:
You totally got wrong what I've said in my post you've quoted .
A character that appeals to the eye will diminish the viewers judgement on that character . Arrogance was never forgiven , Sena's atitude was never forgiven but surprise-surprise , what Sena has and Yozora doesnt?
Both are bad personality wise , Sena with hear massive arrogance and weird fetishes and Yozora with her.....erm....."bullying" and complexes .

What people keep missunderstand or rather ignore is that everytime Yozora and Rika are "bullying" her is when she literally asks for it aka her arrogance comes to surface .
Examples?
See the scene with the haircut , see the scene with the fortune . In every scene , every single of them the "bully" started when Sena shown arrogance .
The verbal abuse is various , either she really looked like a walking porn scene or it was out of complex of inferiority.

The only archtype that it is clear is dandere which is represented by Yukimura . There are no archtypes aside of that . Yozora isnt a tsundere , Sena isnt a tsundere and it isnt a matter of interpretation .
Sena never goes from "cold" to "hot" , Yozora is always "cold" and shows her caring side in her own way which Kodaka ...... doesnt see .

BloodyNightsky said:
I dont see how I exaggerate regarding Yozora.

I havent said anything about Sena vs Yozora , I just said both are terrible only that Sena receives less punishment for her personality because of her looks , none likes someone who belives of himself being a godlike being and says to everyone with so much confidence and disrespect everyone around her (I'm talking everyone but the club) .
We all know that if you look cute/hot you'll receive different treatment , a softer punishment , more screentime.
I'm not insisting on this aspect for nothing , I insist because you deny it. I'm not saying that's all about Sena , I'm just poking you in the eye saying "Hey , why does my coffee tastes like shit and hers is all sweet?" .

I'm really trying not to bring up Yozora but everyone keeps insisting.

Jamada said:

I've made plenty of concessions that Sena's personality is bad. The reason she gets a pass from most people is not because she's got big breasts; it's because Yozora rubs people the wrong way even more than Sena does.

Again, this is an issue of preference. It's not worth arguing over.

Also, there's no need to let Evil-Monk get to you. That was a pretty trollish comment he made.

Jamada said:
Spoiler because I don't really want to argue, but I have a bad habit of nitpicking....


But again, we'll never find a consensus on which character has the better personality; I myself prefer the arrogant Sena to the sadistic Yozora. I can only speak from my own subjective experience, both from within and from reading other people's reasons for liking or hating the characters they do - plenty consider Yozora actions against Sena to be unjustified and overly cruel. We'll probably never come to an agreement on this point.

The only thing I truly can't stand is when people denigrate a character that they don't like by attributing their popularity to nothing more than looks. Looks obviously play their part (especially if we were to talk about the shadier side of fandom *coughporncough*), but not so much in the novels where most people were able to appreciate the characters for their charms and quirks with minimal influence from outward appearances.

Based on looks alone, I originally thought that I would prefer Yozora over Sena. It's only through watching the anime and reading the novels that I came to like Sena (as well as the others, especially Rika). Obviously you went a different path; that's perfectly acceptable.

We're both aware of each other's opinions. Can we stop arguing now?

BloodyNightsky said:
Really?
You wanna stop?
All that I said in the last post its what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
One of her favorite word is "rape"......what does that mean to you?
When it came to choose the theme of the movie Kodaka said "anything without rape" and how did she react?
It's not a matter of a fucking opinion what I've said there it's what ACTUALLY happened .
None of the above are something came out of my mind.
Now , you really pissed me off with "opinion" . What I've said there is exactly what happened in the anime . Want me to quote every fucking word that refers to the post I've made?
It's not something I've interpretated or thought of is a fact because it happened , for christ sakes have we seen different anime?

You can easily notice that everytime Yozora pulls a prank is when Sena shows arrogance and Rika joins.
Kate herself said that Maria changed because of Yozora and the incident with running naked was unnecessary , want me to quote that?
Tell me I'll copy and paste it from the novel translation itself.
EVERYTHING AND I MEAN EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT IN THE LAST POST IS FOUND OR MAKES REFERENCES TO WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED , AKA FACTS , IN THE ANIME.

BloodyNightsky said:

SakurasouBusters said:
Because she's nice and sweet at heart, and her naive nature is adorable!

Takuan_Soho said:


I get your point, and to a great extent I thnk you are correct, however there is a show difference that can also explain why people are more sympathetic to Sena that doesn't have to do with looks: we only hear about Sena's faults, we don't actually see them; whereas we do see Yozora at her worse.

If they showed Sena crushing some poor lovestruck fellow, grinding him underfoot and smiling in enjoyment as Yozora did to Sena at the beach, people would dislike Sena more. Instead we only have heard about it; while they have shown Yozora being petty and hateful. 1 picture is worth 1,000 words. In short we don't see bitch/mean Sena, we only see cute/stupid Sena that has been broken in by Yozora, as such people like the tamed Sena, and dislike the tamer Yozora. Had the show started with Sena trying that "I'll get you expelled" attitude (instead of Sena pleading to join the group) and with Yozora righteously putting the "bitch" into place, people's attitudes towards both would be very different. Image is reality.

MiloticBear said:
I used to think Yozora's bullying was bad, but it really has been the only way to snap Sena out of her self-absorption at times and actually get her involved into the club activities. Then I would believe it if Rika joined in with Yozora to get closer to Sena. So in the many times she tried to exclude Sena from activities, it made Sena active in wanting to be involved and not left behind, like reverse psychology. The reason Yozora and Sena are the best apt to become best friends is because Sena is bring poked and prodded to meet Yozora halfway.

Takuan_Soho said:


I get your point, and to a great extent I thnk you are correct, however there is a show difference that can also explain why people are more sympathetic to Sena that doesn't have to do with looks: we only hear about Sena's faults, we don't actually see them; whereas we do see Yozora at her worse.

If they showed Sena crushing some poor lovestruck fellow, grinding him underfoot and smiling in enjoyment as Yozora did to Sena at the beach, people would dislike Sena more. Instead we only have heard about it; while they have shown Yozora being petty and hateful. 1 picture is worth 1,000 words. In short we don't see bitch/mean Sena, we only see cute/stupid Sena that has been broken in by Yozora, as such people like the tamed Sena, and dislike the tamer Yozora. Had the show started with Sena trying that "I'll get you expelled" attitude (instead of Sena pleading to join the group) and with Yozora righteously putting the "bitch" into place, people's attitudes towards both would be very different. Image is reality.

BloodyNightsky said:
@Jamada : I've had a piece of SnK stupidity fans , see SnK 17 and 18 comments.....if you saw the anime you'd come to same conclusion . I got pieced easily when you didnt get that I actually posted what happened in the anime and it was nothing that had to do with how I see what Yozora does.

I'm pointing out flaws people see only in Yozora and they compeltely ignore Sena's like she doesnt do anything to receives the pranks and Yozora is the bad guy , give me a break.

MiloticBear said:
I could probably just be missing something or be misunderstanding a facet of her character.

BloodyNightsky said:
Sorry for the grammar mistakes , I mean I had read alot of stupid comments in the SnK threads regarding a specific topic .
I am "pissed" not "pieced" .....too much one piece for one day for me it seems.....

It isnt a matter an opinion what I've said all what I did is say what happened in few episodes , not perspective not opinion but exactly what happened in those episodes and quoted what Kate said about Yozora's methods . I didnt inserted nothing from me , IT ISNT MY FUCKING OPINION.
I'm not spitting out theories because I'm done with that . Spitting out theories would mean repeating myself.
And I'm not helping myself with other anime . Just watch facebook comments and see what's the general opinion...."Yozora is such a bad character for hurting my Sena-sama" , "Yozora is terrible she doesnt deserve to be in the anime" , alot of idiotic comments around the internet ALOT of them .
A level-headed person would see that Yozora and Sena are the entertainment of Haganai , not talking about romantic interests or any romance but comedy and it's why we enjoy the anime . It's because of Yozora AND Sena . That a level-head person would say....in my humble opinion.

This is something what is an opinion :
"I think Kodaka is picturing Yozora's in the wrong way and missunderstand her , which Rika pointed out on the rooftop." -> it's totally biased and , in this case , I totally try to justify her , excusing everything she did . Which is an example , bad or good , it's up to you to decide.

That's a freaking opinion , not what I've said by describing the anime episodes which happened exactly like I said .
If I say . "Sena confessed to Kodaka and he ran out of the room " , is it called an opinion to you?
To me it sounds like telling the facts .
Here is an example how an opinion looks refering to the confession:
"Sena confessed to Kodaka and he ran because he is an idiot" -> this is an example of an opinion.

BloodyNightsky said:
I'm sorry for discussion with burst of feelings , I like to be level-headed but too much stupidity hurts.......I'm sorry I got involved in Danganronpa and SnK forums......stupidity is a transmisible disease.


Like I said , naming facts it isnt an opinion . Saying what everyone have seen it isnt an opinion it is called relating facts . I havent said a thing interpretated .

What I basically said is : "Yozora is bullying Sena everytime she shows arrogance" - > see the haircut episode , see the 1st season about going to karaoke "commners....." remember the scene? She has shown arrogance there , she looked down upon other members . What Yozora did?
I'll let you tell me because you think what I'm saying is an opinion.

BloodyNightsky said:
I'm not talking about Sena's intentions , I'm talking about that she said it's a commoner activity , by saying that she looked down upon the members of the club , and yeah she was pulling a tsundere act there but that doesnt change the fact that she treated it with arrogance , Yozora saw the opportunity and used it.
"Commoners activity....." that's a proof , a solid one that she looked up down upon them , which is what arrogance is . Belive it or not I can smell arrogance from a long distance .
I see what you're saying but I named what happened in the anime .

Anyway , as I said ,Yozora hates being looked down upon and when Sena does that she is abusing Sena's weakness .