| i get the sentiment; as long as they're banning based on posts on the forum and not social media stalking it's fine. mal's pretty strict on political stuff as well, so.. |
| Taluun looks like Acidman's (8chan.moe's owner and also a lolicon) long-lost brother |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!  |
| Those AniList mods are sure something different. This wasn't a big surprise. |
 |
| Oh yeah he hates Vic Mignogna too. If you go to the AniList page for Dragon Ball Super: Broly and go to discussions about Vic possibly being replaced with another VA he calls him a sexual predator |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| Fighting intolerance with intolerance will probably worsen the overall situation. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
SOEMasterAgent said: I'm not joking when I said this, Taluun whom is the infamous mod of Anilist, is starting to ban users who voted for Trump while I do understand that Donald Trump is not the best person and has made many stupid decisions. Taluun's rule is just immature and tyrannical like not every Trump supporter agrees with every of his controversial opinions and calling voters "Nazis" is just generalizing them. This is the reason why I have been avoiding Anilist a lot and plan to do so in the future if the rules get even worse LMAO, well, considering the stories i've heard about Taluun from fellow MAL users who've ventured into anilist... i am not in the slightest surprised |
| Calling Trump whom putting Israel on a special treatment, a Nazi is quite a move. Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here. Haven't been any active on anilist and so far I've seen people being here complaining about rules in mal. It's almost always the case that extreme side is the loudest to fight against the other extreme. |
SOEMasterAgent said: I'm not joking when I said this, Taluun whom is the infamous mod of Anilist, is starting to ban users who voted for Trump while I do understand that Donald Trump is not the best person and has made many stupid decisions. Taluun's rule is just immature and tyrannical This is sure to be a spicy topic. Guess I'll do my signature analysis before the thread's impending closure. like not every Trump supporter agrees with every of his controversial opinions Precisely. This is what so many miss. You can support a candidate (whether mentally or politically by voting, etc.) without agreeing with them about everything. You can even personally hate them, albeit less than the opposing candidate(s). This is the reason why I have been avoiding Anilist a lot and plan to do so in the future if the rules get even worse. Now I'm even more glad I barely visited that site. and calling voters "Nazis" is just generalizing them. SOEMasterAgent said: I got it from their comment: "This is your reminder that nazi-ism, As such any post that promotes the nazi Trump Anyone calling Trump or his supporters Nazis clearly has no idea what the word means. racism, who is well known for his racism the racist policies he has, In the United States, outright racist government policies are illegal now. The burden of proof is on anyone claiming the contrary. Trump, Biden and countless other politicians have said racist things, but that is separate from actual policy. sexism, As if other politicians have never made sexist remarks. transphobia, I don't think those constantly using this word understand what a phobia is. It is an extreme, irrational fear of something. Stating the objective fact that humans are either male or female is neither fearful nor irrational, nor does stating the fact that believing something to be true does not make it true. Biological sex refers to sexual reproduction...more specifically, viable gametes, of which there are only two, male and female. Even intersex people with developmental defects that alter their chromosomal structure are still either male or female; it does not magically create additional sexes. Gender is often synonymous with sex, but in the context of differentiated from sex, it is a social construct. Many aspects of personal expression are protected by the constitution, guaranteeing every citizen a degree of autonomy in that regard. So in general, you can freely identify as a man, woman, werewolf, space alien, or whatever, without legal persecution. However, there are certain laws to protect members of one sex or that otherwise apply to sex, and you don't get to circumvent that by claiming you are the opposite sex you actually are. (Which, by the way, is fraud, a crime in some cases.) You also don't get to infringe upon others' right to free speech and so on. and bigotry in general are not allowed on this site. Translation: Anything they don't like is not allowed, up to their discretion. The implementation of that rule applies to promoting people who are well known for supporting those bigotries as well. No political opinions allowed either, of course. lol and for being a rapist per the courts There was not sufficient evidence to criminally convict him of rape. The best they could manage was to sue him in civil court. His comments about immigrants "poisoning the blood of the country", Context is key. He was not referring to race there. If they bothered to read the actual quotes, they would see he meant violent criminals and the like. the promotion of "the great replacement theory", the antisemitic comments he has repeatedly made Citation needed. are all nazi positions. Nazi and their supporters are not welcome here. How convenient that they fail to produce any evidence of Trump being a Nazi, or of someone being a Nazi for supporting him. will result in you being banned. Don't try to be cheeky about this, it will be treated all the same." Worry not...I won't be using such a pitiful website to begin with. Yes that's what they actually said, they needs to lay off of politics in an anime tracking site like I understand the world is ass at times but they need to have a happier lifestyle If they simply discussed politics without banning people for having an opinion, it wouldn't be a problem. Archolos said: I agree but it goes both ways, people who decide to bring in politics or religion on an anime tracking website of all places are... weird to put it simply. It's not weird at all. Many forums have areas for general discussion. Politics are an inevitable topic that is brought up in innumerable threads, even when political threads are disallowed. As far as I am aware MAL and other mainstream social outlets do not allow these things either. It depends how extreme the comments are. Many are simply undeniable facts...like saying that women are generally less interested in certain careers such as engineering, or that whites comprise not much higher than ten percent of the global population...yet some assert such statements are somehow sexist, racist, etc. SOEMasterAgent said: Correct as it always should be. I don't think you have thought this through. A big problem is that those terms are ambiguous. Innocuous behavior can be misconstrued. Previously mainstream opinions are now demonized. Unfortunately they have done this while yes at least what Taluun went against was a horrible person, He stalked a user on Twitter and advocates witch hunting on those that he has banned I'm honestly amused by how triggered leftists get over the existence of people who are different than them. How tolerant indeed! As long as Anilist mods are not going out of their way to stalk users other social media accounts to have an excuse to ban them on their site it should be fine, but if they do that then it is a problem. shorl10 said: i get the sentiment; as long as they're banning based on posts on the forum and not social media stalking it's fine. mal's pretty strict on political stuff as well, so.. It's not fine, by my reckoning. People should be allowed to hold opinions and express them within reasonable limits, such as not making criminal threats. And it's not about whether they can implement casual bans. (They habitually do.) If unsanctioned stances are censored by default, it's only a matter of time until meaningful discussion is eviscerated. vasipi4946 said: Oh yeah he hates Vic Mignogna too. If you go to the AniList page for Dragon Ball Super: Broly and go to discussions about Vic possibly being replaced with another VA he calls him a sexual predator Accusations were levied against Vic, but I have yet to encounter evidence of sexual misconduct. From what I have seen, he hugged a few fans without realizing they did not wish to be hugged. He hugged countless other fans who were fine with it, as this is a common practice at fan conventions. |
SmugSatokoJan 27, 5:54 AM
 |
| Judging by their profile, I'm not surprised. Or at least I wouldn't be surprised. I haven't seen the proof. Could we get some evidence that this really happened? Screenshots or links or whatever? |
Reply to Zettaiken
Calling Trump whom putting Israel on a special treatment, a Nazi is quite a move. Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here.
Haven't been any active on anilist and so far I've seen people being here complaining about rules in mal. It's almost always the case that extreme side is the loudest to fight against the other extreme.
Haven't been any active on anilist and so far I've seen people being here complaining about rules in mal. It's almost always the case that extreme side is the loudest to fight against the other extreme.
Zettaiken said: Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here. That's because Nazism hardly refers to a political ideology in this day and age. The use of this nowadays is no different from calling someone a criminal, a demon, or a plain evil person. |
| I don’t care for Donald trumps jew worship and zionism but like hell I would ever side with a literal Marxist subversive like kamala harris. These leftists are stupid and delusional, they’re fighting against the likes of Palmer Luckey who start their own military technology companies, meanwhile all these people have is antifa and their keyboards. What pisses me off about all of this is the blatant disregard for what this country and the west stand for, these idiots want to disintegrate rational society and turn our fucking world into Reddit, where if enough obese purple haired feminists dislike what you think they can kick you out of society. These people need to be killed. And I’m coming from the perspective of someone who grew up during the golden age of the web of the early 00s which was basically what an ideal libertarian society would look like. |
Reply to SOT_Daemon
@Archolos I got it from their comment: "This is your reminder that nazi-ism, racism, sexism, transphobia, and bigotry in general are not allowed on this site. The implementation of that rule applies to promoting people who are well known for supporting those bigotries as well.
As such any post that promotes the nazi Trump who is well known for his racism and for being a rapist per the courts will result in you being banned. His comments about immigrants "poisoning the blood of the country", the promotion of "the great replacement theory", the racist policies he has, the antisemitic comments he has repeatedly made are all nazi positions. Nazi and their supporters are not welcome here.
Don't try to be cheeky about this, it will be treated all the same."
Yes that's what they actually said, they needs to lay off of politics in an anime tracking site like I understand the world is ass at times but they need to have a happier lifestyle
As such any post that promotes the nazi Trump who is well known for his racism and for being a rapist per the courts will result in you being banned. His comments about immigrants "poisoning the blood of the country", the promotion of "the great replacement theory", the racist policies he has, the antisemitic comments he has repeatedly made are all nazi positions. Nazi and their supporters are not welcome here.
Don't try to be cheeky about this, it will be treated all the same."
Yes that's what they actually said, they needs to lay off of politics in an anime tracking site like I understand the world is ass at times but they need to have a happier lifestyle
| @SOEMasterAgent Ahh yes the “great replacement theory” …. “theory” because it’s just something that exists within the minds of insane racist bigots …. What (((they))) did to the ethnic Russians they are now doing to the European race all over the world. They consider you “amalek” and their end-goal is the complete eradication of the European race and world. |
| Here's a meme tangentially related to the topic for your entertainment. |
Reply to TransferUser
Here's a meme tangentially related to the topic for your entertainment.
| @TransferUser Yes I know they're bad the problem is Taluun keeps throwing that word around on Trump as well as voters even the ones that don't care about his (referring to Trump) controversial opinions |
| I bet they don't even get stalked by Elon Musk for ideas on Anilist *snickers* https://www.similarweb.com/website/anilist.co/vs/myanimelist.net/#traffic |
 |
| Anyone voting for Trump is actually a willing participant in the mass atrocities and potential destruction of democracy which is coming. There is absolutely no excuse, and if you're going to do such things, you can't cry if you face consequences for them. |
Reply to Cielord
Zettaiken said:
Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here.
Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here.
That's because Nazism hardly refers to a political ideology in this day and age. The use of this nowadays is no different from calling someone a criminal, a demon, or a plain evil person.
| @Cielord Actually, it's probably because Israel has a Nazi government. "Nazi" does actually have a meaning outside of that old German political party, it means more generally a type of fascism which is based around notions of racial supremacy rather than state supremacy. (This being the principle difference between Mussolini and Hitler.) The Israeli government quite clearly meets both of those characteristics. |
Reply to logopolis
Anyone voting for Trump is actually a willing participant in the mass atrocities and potential destruction of democracy which is coming. There is absolutely no excuse, and if you're going to do such things, you can't cry if you face consequences for them.
| @logopolis They are all part of the same cabal. Doesn’t matter who you vote for they all go to the same parties together, wear their yamaka and pray at the wall. Our world is run by an insane religious death cult. |
logopolis said: Anyone voting for Trump is actually a willing participant in the mass atrocities and potential destruction of democracy which is coming. There is absolutely no excuse, and if you're going to do such things, you can't cry if you face consequences for them. Would you care to list these "mass atrocities" for us? I am also curious how democracy could be destroyed by the Trump administration. He was President once before, yet democracy remains intact. |
|
| Anilist doesn't exactly have a burgeoning userbase, so one of their soyboy moderators going on a personal, politically-motivated banning spree after presumably going mad with power isn't going to help with that. Wouldn't surprise me if their forums end up a wasteland like Anime-Planet's in the few years, with the only spurts of activity being from advertisement bots and regulars who treat the place like a personal blog. |
  ｲ乇刀乇乃尺ﾑ乇 ╔⏤═⏤╝   ╚⏤═⏤╗☽ Shaded Horizon ☾ |
That's exactly the kind of moderation you can expect from a gender-confused man who has garbage like this written on his profile. |
Reply to SmugSatoko
logopolis said:
Anyone voting for Trump is actually a willing participant in the mass atrocities and potential destruction of democracy which is coming. There is absolutely no excuse, and if you're going to do such things, you can't cry if you face consequences for them.
Anyone voting for Trump is actually a willing participant in the mass atrocities and potential destruction of democracy which is coming. There is absolutely no excuse, and if you're going to do such things, you can't cry if you face consequences for them.
Would you care to list these "mass atrocities" for us?
I am also curious how democracy could be destroyed by the Trump administration. He was President once before, yet democracy remains intact.
| @SmugSatoko Sending people who came here illegally back to their country of origin and getting this country involved in wars that basically would have happened anyways regardless of who was president. |
Reply to Ejrodiew
That's exactly the kind of moderation you can expect from a gender-confused man who has garbage like this written on his profile.
| @Ejrodiew Wtf is “ACAB”? Anarcho-capitalist Adult Baby? |
Reply to Cielord
Zettaiken said:
Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here.
Although I've heard a bit people here calling Israel Nazis here.
That's because Nazism hardly refers to a political ideology in this day and age. The use of this nowadays is no different from calling someone a criminal, a demon, or a plain evil person.
| @Cielord I usually see it being used synonymously with ultranationalism. |
ZarutakuJan 27, 6:19 AM
No, this isn't my signature. |
Cybercat2000 said: They are all part of the same cabal. Doesn’t matter who you vote for they all go to the same parties together, wear their yamaka and pray at the wall. Our world is run by an insane religious death cult. All the options in that election were bad, certainly, but "insane religious death cult" describes only Trump and MAGA. There's a big difference between those guys and the continuation of the normal plutocracy. The answer is to build a broad multiracial and diverse working-class-based coalition to challenge the representatives of the rich, not to vote insane religious death cult. SmugSatoko said: Would you care to list these "mass atrocities" for us? They haven't had much time yet, and also it's not my country so I'm not paying detailed attention to the local news there, but I know we've already had some concentration camp announcements as part of the mass deportations, (and if you think that will be done taking care to avoid deporting anyone who they shouldn't, that's a spectacular level of delusion,) and what amounts to a war against trans people. They had those Nazi salutes from Musk as part of their celebrations, so if you don't know what that means... I am also curious how democracy could be destroyed by the Trump administration. He was President once before, yet democracy remains intact. If someone shot a gun at you, and missed, would you conclude that you were perfectly safe, or would you work that they might shoot again and hit you the second time? He tried, he messed up and failed because Pence wasn't a fascist. This time they've had years to reflect on that failure and plan the second time properly. |
| It's perfectly fine for a mod to ban a user that repeatedly spout hate/discriminatory speech on their forums (which I guess is something a few users would disagree with anyway, since they got all sad when they banned BigBoyAdvance). But to ban them for things they said on other websites isn't exactly the right thing to do. Even if it might be tempting to ban potentially toxic individuals, there shouldn't be any reason to ban them if they have yet to do anything wrong on the forum they moderate. And sure, you can't assume that someone supports all the things a politician says because they voted for them. On it's own, to say that you voted for Trump doesn't count as hate speech (but that won't stop me from judging them though). |
logopolis said: They haven't had much time yet, and also it's not my country so I'm not paying detailed attention to the local news there, but I know we've already had some concentration camp announcements as part of the mass deportations, They have to hold the deportees somewhere while they are being deported. If you want to be dramatic and call them concentration camps, then you don't understand what that means. A concentration camp is an internment center for political prisoners. (Among other things such as their ethnicity.) Internment is the imprisonment of people without legal charges against them. Political prisoners are people imprisoned for their political activism or beliefs. This is markedly different, because they are illegal immigrants with legal charges against them, and it has nothing to do with their political beliefs. (and if you think that will be done taking care to avoid deporting anyone who they shouldn't, that's a spectacular level of delusion,) Are you saying they will mass deport legal immigrants with US citizenship too? If so, what evidence do you have for that? and what amounts to a war against trans people. Can you elaborate? It would appear you mean some sort of ideological war rather than a literal civil war. They had those Nazi salutes from Musk as part of their celebrations, so if you don't know what that means... Elon Musk did not make Nazi salutes. This has been thoroughly debunked. If you think simply extending their arm makes someone a Nazi, then practically all politicians are too. I addressed this in another thread. I'll paste from my post there: He said "my heart goes out to you" and made gestures going from his chest outward to the audience. He was literally waving toward them, like countless politicians have done. Just watch the video. Granted, he got a little carried away and should have thought things through before doing something that would so easily be misconstrued. However, anyone who knows even a little bit about Elon Musk knows he generally advocates liberty, the very opposite of fascist/Nazi ideology. If someone shot a gun at you, and missed, would you conclude that you were perfectly safe, or would you work that they might shoot again and hit you the second time? He tried, he messed up and failed because Pence wasn't a fascist. This time they've had years to reflect on that failure and plan the second time properly. Trump is not a fascist either. This label is unfounded and butchers the real meaning of the term. It's ironic that you seem to think Trump is more extreme than Pence, who holds various views that are more extreme. What exactly did he try, by the way? Be specific. At any rate, I want detailed information as to how the destruction of democracy would be carried out, not merely your belief that it could happen. |
SmugSatokoJan 27, 7:42 AM
|
Reply to removed-user
@Zettaiken It is not like you don’t have white supremacists or those with antisemitic tendencies not supporting the idea of Israel. It is usually in the same vein as “Africa for blacks and America for Americans”. Even then, the Nazis persecuted many groups overall. The other idea is that linking between the state of Israel’s action to Nazism. Or a generic term for those who oppress and scapegoat other groups of people.
OT: This is also a political thread, to be honest.
OT: This is also a political thread, to be honest.
PeripheralVision said: This is also a political thread, to be honest. At least MAL doesn't ban people based on voting patterns. Anilist's policy is antithetical to democracy. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to SmugSatoko
logopolis said:
They haven't had much time yet, and also it's not my country so I'm not paying detailed attention to the local news there, but I know we've already had some concentration camp announcements as part of the mass deportations,
They haven't had much time yet, and also it's not my country so I'm not paying detailed attention to the local news there, but I know we've already had some concentration camp announcements as part of the mass deportations,
They have to hold the deportees somewhere while they are being deported. If you want to be dramatic and call them concentration camps, then you don't understand what that means. A concentration camp is an internment center for political prisoners. (Among other things such as their ethnicity.) Internment is the imprisonment of people without legal charges against them. Political prisoners are people imprisoned for their political activism or beliefs. This is markedly different, because they are illegal immigrants with legal charges against them, and it has nothing to do with their political beliefs.
(and if you think that will be done taking care to avoid deporting anyone who they shouldn't, that's a spectacular level of delusion,)
Are you saying they will mass deport legal immigrants with US citizenship too? If so, what evidence do you have for that?
and what amounts to a war against trans people.
Can you elaborate? It would appear you mean some sort of ideological war rather than a literal civil war.
They had those Nazi salutes from Musk as part of their celebrations, so if you don't know what that means...
Elon Musk did not make Nazi salutes. This has been thoroughly debunked. If you think simply extending their arm makes someone a Nazi, then practically all politicians are too. I addressed this in another thread. I'll paste from my post there:
He said "my heart goes out to you" and made gestures going from his chest outward to the audience. He was literally waving toward them, like countless politicians have done. Just watch the video.
Granted, he got a little carried away and should have thought things through before doing something that would so easily be misconstrued. However, anyone who knows even a little bit about Elon Musk knows he generally advocates liberty, the very opposite of fascist/Nazi ideology.
If someone shot a gun at you, and missed, would you conclude that you were perfectly safe, or would you work that they might shoot again and hit you the second time? He tried, he messed up and failed because Pence wasn't a fascist. This time they've had years to reflect on that failure and plan the second time properly.
Trump is not a fascist either. This label is unfounded and butchers the real meaning of the term.
It's ironic that you seem to think Trump is more extreme than Pence, who holds various views that are more extreme.
What exactly did he try, by the way? Be specific.
At any rate, I want detailed information as to how the destruction of democracy would be carried out, not merely your belief that it could happen.
| @SmugSatoko Musk was paraphrasing a Hitler speech at the time, in case anyone is actually in doubt. Anyway, done with you now.. |
logopolis said: Musk was paraphrasing a Hitler speech at the time, in case anyone is actually in doubt. Got proof? Anyway, done with you now.. What a surprise...you are unable to substantiate your claims and relent upon the realization that there are those not ignorant enough to believe the things you do. |
|
fleurbleue said: It's perfectly fine for a mod to ban a user that repeatedly spout hate/discriminatory speech on their forums (which I guess is something a few users would disagree with anyway, since they got all sad when they banned BigBoyAdvance). That's not the reason though, BBA often was toxic but his brutal honesty often was entertaining, some thick-skinned users were able to dismiss his toxicity and just have a good laugh at his overly edgy posts, whereas some thin-skinned users felt offended and occasionally started futile fights with him. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
| You seem like a disgruntled Anilist User, who got banned for some stuff^^ Show proof or didn't happen. |
 |
| @SOEMasterAgent Yup. That's what I thought. You were beeing ridiculous in the Forums and some Mod had enough of your shit. Happens. That's life my dude^^ You didn't just innocently talk about Trump and politics. You were beeing crazy, in a space that doesn't care. Learn from it. |
|
Reply to SOT_Daemon
@Merve2Love
"You were beeing crazy, in a space that doesn't care" So is Taluun obsessing with political banter for most on Anilist when the site is about tracking anime/manga and banning people even innocent ones who vote for Trump
"You were beeing crazy, in a space that doesn't care" So is Taluun obsessing with political banter for most on Anilist when the site is about tracking anime/manga and banning people even innocent ones who vote for Trump
| @SOEMasterAgent What did you think was gonna happen, btw?^^ You'd come on here and there would be a massive shitstorm, the guy looses his mod status and your ban gets lifted? xD Cmon^^ You were beeing unreasonable. Im sure you were warned. You didn't listen. Now you're banned. Don't be petty about it. Just learn from it. |
|
| Sorry to hear you got a ban. Also, relevant: |
  |
Reply to SOT_Daemon
@Merve2Love "You were beeing unreasonable" I'd like to inform you that you're defending the same mods who did not ban a user for saying "If you like Spy X Family's humor, you need to see a psychiatrist" as well as call an innocent Monogatari fan a "dumbass" and letted him slide, defended Disney's decision to add Mushoku Tensei on Disney+ Japan, celebrated the death of Shinzo Abe and banning people for innocent forum questions as they say "Threads should have a clear purpose for existing and aim to incite meaningful discussion" in which they want you to make posts that they agree on like if you make a question in a game on the gaming forums, they'll warn and ban you unlike MAL mods.
SOEMasterAgent said: I'd like to inform you that you're defending the same mods who did not ban a user for saying "If you like Spy X Family's humor, you need to see a psychiatrist" as well as call an innocent Monogatari fan a "dumbass" and letted him slide, defended Disney's decision to add Mushoku Tensei on Disney+ Japan, celebrated the death of Shinzo Abe are you autistic or something who gives a shit about this |
Reply to Zarutaku
fleurbleue said:
It's perfectly fine for a mod to ban a user that repeatedly spout hate/discriminatory speech on their forums (which I guess is something a few users would disagree with anyway, since they got all sad when they banned BigBoyAdvance).
It's perfectly fine for a mod to ban a user that repeatedly spout hate/discriminatory speech on their forums (which I guess is something a few users would disagree with anyway, since they got all sad when they banned BigBoyAdvance).
That's not the reason though, BBA often was toxic but his brutal honesty often was entertaining, some thick-skinned users were able to dismiss his toxicity and just have a good laugh at his overly edgy posts, whereas some thin-skinned users felt offended and occasionally started futile fights with him.
| @Zarutaku Good for you if his over-the-top toxic takes were entertaining to you. On my end, I mostly thought he was just annoying and had been in my ignored list for a while. Him being banned didn't change much for me. |
More topics from this board
» Do you like stickers?Zakatsuki_ - Sep 19 |
14 |
by dreamingneon
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
» What horror movie actually scared you?Wendy-- - 11 hours ago |
12 |
by Absurdo_N
»»
19 minutes ago |
|
» How often do you run red🚦lights when driving?VabbingSips - 2 hours ago |
2 |
by DigiCat
»»
22 minutes ago |
|
» Do you believe in karma?fleurbleue - Sep 18 |
30 |
by Taiyaa
»»
31 minutes ago |
|
» Do you think some people actually found true love on MAL?Zakatsuki_ - Sep 19 |
15 |
by OshieteOshiete-
»»
42 minutes ago |