Fate/Zero is actually better than Fate/stay night.

I think the same too, but for me I guess it's just a preference to works of the author of Fate/Zero, who also directed Madoka Magica and Psycho-Pass.

Although I do think fate/zero is amazing (I still have it at a 10), there was just something about stay night that seemed a little better to me. I think the biggest reason is because I personally liked the masters and servants more, as well as the dynamics between them (although I do agree I like kiritsugu more than Shirou). I also thought archer’s identity reveal was super cool (ik it was obvious who he was but still lol). One thing I did like more about zero though was how there wasn’t a major focus on romance. I get that the romance is one of the main purposes in the games but I wouldn’t have minded if there was none in stay night tbh.

Fate/Zero is definitely better at being edgy, which is surprising because the Heaven's Feel route is edgy enough, but it was Urobuchi who wrote it, so it could only be so edgy as is usual of him. At literally any other thing? Then no.

I'm anime only (I don't have any time in my life to trawl through any more content other than the Fate Wiki which looks out of date)
*I agree UBW is absolute trash and hated that entire arc. It takes Shirou's abilities into OP territory, and Gilgamesh was overdone and too sinister
Also the writing was just shit anyway.

Deen FSN is underrated and I find it a very good *sequel to the events of Fate/Zero.

*I agree on the Cool Factor of Kiritsugu, although I'm more a fan of Kirei (in terms of cool factor- but face it both of them are fucking horrible people) and the Kiritsugu/Kirei fight at the end of Fate Zero gets me pumped even though it's not even animated that well.
Both of them killed Irisviel and I feel so bad for her, she got a really bad deal in that anime. Urobochi is a bastard. But a good writer...

In a way I feel like Fate/Zero is probably the number one reason the entire franchise has any following. Whenever people want to get into Fate the top recommendation is "go watch F/Z" and they do and it hooks people, and from there their expectations are probably a little too high. Since ufotable produced UBW they gravitate toward that and it's a major letdown because the original 2006 anime is far better written (and in my humble view looks better actually)
The only part of it I never watched was that magical girl show

Alright, so, firstly, putting down one work to prop up another is rather distasteful imo, so I was rather trepidatious about the subject matter of this post and the actual contents of it did nothing but confirm my suspicions. It’s an inherently elitist way of going about media consumption which does little except spark arguments. Are you allowed to prefer Zero over stay night? Of course! That's your opinion and I have no right to judge your or say you're wrong for it. However, actively going about putting down one person's work to try and underline the quality of another's is something I do disagree with on a fundamental level. Now as for your more specific points:



This does not prime me to have a great deal of respect for your opinions. Judging books by their covers and saying things you've never even experienced are mid is incredibly elitist



Darkness and brutality don't make a work inherently better in and of themselves. Some may find that makes it more engaging, whereas others may prefer the somewhat lighter tone offered by stay night. Speaking personally, I found the levity and almost slice-of-life-ish elements of FSN are one of my favorite parts of it and I never really cared for Zero's tone, but I won't pretend that my feelings on these subjects are inherent facts which make FSN better than FZ.



It feels like there's an inherent hypocrisy in decrying one character for being wish fulfillment while praising another on the basis of being "cooler". Power Fantasies aren't inherently bad and the reality is that most people are perfectly fine with power fantasy stories as long as they're well-written and cater to them specifically.

Regardless, both Shirou and Kiritsugu's progressions make sense for what they are trying to be: Shirou gains power and skill over the course of Stay Night because all three routes are about him achieving self-actualization in one form or another, and power progression is the most fundamental expression of such a journey in action-based series like stay night. Kiritsugu's journey is about his ideological downfall after a long life of experiences, so of course he starts out skilled and doesn't progress much.

Speaking on a personal level once again, I prefer Shirou as a character on the basis that he resonates more with me personally and I found him to be both well-written and much more compelling, but I also love Kiritsugu and acknowledge him as a similarly excellent protagonist because, well, he is. Stoic protags with trauma are one of my favorite archetypes, and traumatized characters with self-destructive bottomless willpower like Shirou are also one of my favorite archetypes, and both of them are incredibly well-executed so of course I love both of them even if I have preferences



This is frankly just a rather shallow argument. Gilgamesh poses an immense threat in both the Fate and UBW routes, and has a noted thematic role in both of them. In the Fate route, his rivalry with and desire to possess Saber is highly emphasized, and his defeat ultimately comes at the hands of Artoria through the power of Avalon, the cold reality of the world as represented by Ea and his all-consuming egomania destroyed by the crystallization of Artoria's distant ideals and crystallized by Avalon, a climactic conclusion to that conflict consistent with the Fate route's themes (also gotta give props to Zero for retroactively adding another layer to this since this also basically serves as a great conclusion to the Banquet of Kings and a strong contrast to the fight between Gil and Iskandar)

Subsequently, in Unlimited Blade Works, he also gets a strong climactic conclusion in his fight with Shirou, with emphasis put on him how he acts as a foil to him. Thematically and narratively speaking, Shirou's character arc had already reached its climax at this point during his fight with Archer, and the Gilgamesh fight basically serves as a culmination of Shirou's growth as expressed by his achievement of Unlimited Blade Works, thus putting a strong cap on the entire route.

In Heaven's Feel, he has no strong ties to the themes being explored and the narrative has no place for him, so of course he's disposed of.

Fundamentally, there's also the simple fact that in Zero, he has to survive in order to make it to stay night, so of course he doesn't get beaten nearly as much. Relatedly, stay night emphasizes that he's a an utterly detestable character and actively makes you want to hate him from the very moment he appears much more than Zero does, so him getting defeated as thoroughly and sometimes embarrassingly as he did was designed to be immensely gratifying.



This is the very dictionary definition of a strawman argument. The issue doesn't come from the fact that she was flawed, quite the opposite, it was the major inconsistency between her portrayal in Stay Night vs how she was in Zero. In stay night, she was very consistently portrayed as pragmatic from basically the moment she appears and honor was practically an afterthought, with flashbacks and allusions to her past painting the picture of her having a "needs of the many" mentality not unlike Kiritsugu's, a mentality consistent which perfectly compliments everything else about her backstory (her decision to be a perfect king and do what was good for her country above what she thought was right). Meanwhile, honor means everything to Zero Saber, which is a portrayal utterly jarring and entirely removed from her established characterization



Ah, the whataboutism and false equivalence, key parts of any poorly-constructed internet argument

Anyway, Ataraxia is a comedy and thus doesn't expect you to take its portrayal of its characters very seriously, nor does it ask you to try and reconcile them with mainline canon. Same goes for most other comedic and flanderized depictions of their characters like Carnival Phantasm or Emiya Gohan. Us fans eat those up because they're, quite frankly, very hilarious



"Resent" is a very strong word, the series is incredibly popular pretty much everywhere you go, no getting around that,most Nasuverse fans I know personally decently like Zero, even the ones who prefer Stay Night, and there's no arguing that it's at least well-made. Also, my statement about putting down others' work continues to apply. Like, dude, saying "her her, your entire franchise is dumb gatcha cringe, go watch this thing I like" is such a laughably elitist attitude that it's impossible to take seriously

Speaking personally again, I think Urobutchi is a fine writer, but not really one as good as everyone hypes him up to be. He's produced one work I genuinely loved (Madoka Magica), but all the other stuff I've seen from him (F/Z, Expelled From Paradise, and Saya no Uta), has kinda just been alright but never blew me away



Oh boy, that's quite possibly the biggest outright lie in this entire thing, but I'm frankly too tired to do a watch order debate right now

@Infamous_Empire Thank you for being so correct.

@ELtaaaaaa

You are very welcome

Fate zero is a masterpiece
It's obvious zero is better than all stay night
Stay night just a good anime nothing more.
I know vn is far better but not compare to zero.

If the 3 routes were actually one route all together maybe could be better, but in that situation no.

Zero has better character design
And ofcours way better artstyle
Hf I think it was cgi(in term of artstyle I mean) and I didn't like it.
Just go and watch garden of sinners
The only work of fate universe despite zero that must be watched

With better character design and artstyle even better than zero
It's tye best UFOTABLE work

Fate zero > garden of sinners > fate Stay night

Other fate except camelot are horrible

@Zero01guard "I know vn is far better but not compare to Zero"
you cannot make that statement without reading the vn lol

i pretty much agree with the rest of your statement, though id say Garden of Sinners > Zero

@salad77 fate stay night vn has 3 routes, it's like which one of them is one story or we can say stay night has 3 story but zero is light novel and one story

You can compare one story(route) of stay night to zero
Not all routes in same time.

And all three without another is not perfect, actually has so much problem
Just Saber route is better then others in term of perfection

Only if all 3 routes mixed together
In that situation perhaps would be better.

But for now it's not and zero is better.

And about garden of sinners
Yeah is masterpiece and I loved it
But I think zero is little bit better

@Zero01guard
But thats the thing, all 3 routes are important for each other and they cannot be seperated.
we are talking about Fate/Stay Night as a whole, not singular routes. of course a single route isnt comparable to zero, because each route explores a certain part that the others dont, FSN shouldnt be treated as 3 different stories.
FSN is 1 Game (VN) and Zero is 1 Novel (technically 4 but whatever)

it is completely fine if you like or prefer Zero.