Season 2 Production

Kebble said:
Just how tight was MAPPA's production timeline for the second season? I've been loving the new season but I feel like I've seen so many people complaining about the animation, art style and general direction of the anime. From the general basis when discussing MAPPA as a studio, I presume their schedule was very difficult to work with considering they're pumping out another 23 episode season just over two years after season 1 airing finished. 

ktg said:
The downfall started from SnK S4 P1. After that, you could easily see the drop in quality, before that it was much much better.
And I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not great either anymore.

atari2k said:
dude, jujutsu kaizen looks better now than it did in season 1, people just can't handle change, that's the issue.

ktg said:

Then why did every change make it more bland and boring? Or why did they make it easier to animate?
Compare the hairs in the 2 seasons. In S2 there is less shading and reflection which makes it more 2d and soulless.

ktg said:

Then why did every change make it more bland and boring? Or why did they make it easier to animate?
Compare the hairs in the 2 seasons. In S2 there is less shading and reflection which makes it more 2d and soulless.

ktg said:

Then why did every change make it more bland and boring? Or why did they make it easier to animate?
Compare the hairs in the 2 seasons. In S2 there is less shading and reflection which makes it more 2d and soulless.

ktg said:
The downfall started from SnK S4 P1. After that, you could easily see the drop in quality, before that it was much much better.
And I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not great either anymore.

MoonSplitter said:
The animation and the other things are not really a problem, everything was good enough. The thing is that JJK(s1 and the movie) was known for a certain type of action scenes that we will probably won't see as much because the director sunghoo park, known for his action, is no longer part of this project.

Overall I think the anime is wining with Gosso as the new director, but I think we will be missing those type of fights we saw in jjk ep24(itadori vs 2brothers) or in jjk0(yuta vs geto,gojo vs miguel).

Other fans are maybe a bit disappointed because the current arc and the last fight are some of the peaks of the manga, and they (me included) expected some internet breaking 3 min non-stop type of fight. I think it's fair to be disappointed, mappa didn't focus on gojo's fight but they put all the effort in enlightening part and it was great. And some shot with an iconic quote didn't look as cool as in the manga, it is what it is.

About the schedule... it's not very good, as usual for mappa... But they did better than some people expected.

ktg said:

Then why did every change make it more bland and boring? Or why did they make it easier to animate?
Compare the hairs in the 2 seasons. In S2 there is less shading and reflection which makes it more 2d and soulless.

agony12 said:

there's a difference between fluid animation and character details..

ktg said:

Then why did every change make it more bland and boring? Or why did they make it easier to animate?
Compare the hairs in the 2 seasons. In S2 there is less shading and reflection which makes it more 2d and soulless.

Hentaii_anime said:
you're the type of guy who doesn't know shit about animation but acts smart with google knowledge. I see you every where shitting on mappa series and bringing up snk in every possible way

Fa5P said:

how could you have a full blown 3 min fight scenes like it doesnt make any sense as they have expanded the fights already and going beyond that is like asking for them to change it completely... its like saying you are dissapointed with the gojo vs toji 2nd fight when that isnt even supposed to be a fight as toji cant do nothing agaisnt gojo. I cant understand how people that have read the manga can be dissapointed with that because they were expecting more of a fight like???? that just tells me that majority really just admire the cool drawings without a care for whats being said or the context

MoonSplitter said:


Well... I was just saying. I know that the point is that gojo was so op that toji can't even have a chance to fight but that doesn't mean there was no place for more and better animation for that specific encounter. Gojo's red was pretty basic comparing with blue in the previous episode, and purple was kinda off screened. Also a lot of still shots or gojo just levitating and standing in one place.toji too. Nothing wrong with that but sometimes animators go beyond the limits and make some crazy shit out of few manga panels. Geto's fight was way longer than in the manga with some good moments and some people expected at least same treatment for the BIG MOMENT of the episode(and one of the biggest from jjk). It was good, but could've been better.

Kebble said:
Just how tight was MAPPA's production timeline for the second season? I've been loving the new season but I feel like I've seen so many people complaining about the animation, art style and general direction of the anime. From the general basis when discussing MAPPA as a studio, I presume their schedule was very difficult to work with considering they're pumping out another 23 episode season just over two years after season 1 airing finished. 

Spoopy69 said:

the team is the same as the chainsaw man team (team seshimo). so they had to make 23 episodes from the end of fall 2022 until the last episode airs. we can safely say that this is a horrible schedule and it's very impressive that the quality is this high. i do think there will be some slideshow episodes or just episodes that are a lot weaker in comparison to what we got so far because ~6 months for 23 episodes is just insane.

csmfan069 said:
this is easily the most bullshit thing i've read but then again this is mal.
first of all the production for jjk s2 most likely started after movie was finished, not after chainsawman.  team members usally consist of 5-6members, rest all are mappa staff who were always working on jk and not csm. they most likely had over over a year of production time and its not like they have completed entire 23 eps, the entire cour 2 is most likeyl still in heavy post production

atari2k said:
so ur definition of  good   animation is  shading and detailed hair?  xd why am I bothering talking to somebody like you who has no idea how any of this works. go back and look at this recent episode, look at the shading, the drawings, the light, color design and general compositing. every single frame and character is on model and it looks way more polished than season 1. and if u care about hair that much go look at the animation of the hair in the Gojo v toji fight this episode xd 

Fa5P said:

dude go watch bleach as that should be more of your shit with its static animation but well corrected frames giving the characters and "the hair" omg cant forget about the hair, have more details at the cost of movement

Hentaii_anime said:
you're the type of guy who doesn't know shit about animation but acts smart with google knowledge. I see you every where shitting on mappa series and bringing up snk in every possible way

Sanjii_1234 said:
yes he is a certified mappa hater.
He hates everything made by mappa including his own parents.

Friermiko said:

I actually went back to season 1, and yeah it looks like season 2’s animation and art look way better, at least in my eyes. But I agree with you that season 2 feels completely bland and boring compared to season 1.

DexterDrubo said:

what was the down in quality? CSM which was so good but due to art being subjective some people couldn't digest it and some were straight up hater. JJK s2 is also super good but the artsyle changed which some people can't digest it and then there are haters.. AOT S4 P3 C1 is praised for its direction and animation.
Hell's Paradise, an anime with almost no hype (not as much when compared to their other projects) still had good artstyle,animation and direction.. (the pacing was off but still it was praise worthy)

ktg said:
These are the childish replies that I got. I create a new reply to the more normal replies, so I can handle separately the idiotic takes.


Uh, let's talk about this again when you graduated from highschool.
It was pretty obvious that I was talking generally and gave you an EXAMPLE. The concept of example is taught in highschool when you learn about arguments.

But just to react your pretty bad argument, because it doesn't exist. I was talking about shadings and lights, how it reflects etc. So if these changes make the characters more simple, then it means 1) the shadings, lights are worse than in S1; 2) it makes it easier to animate that leads to worse overall animation.
What you made a statement, that does not prove anything. You need to make arguments, give example to prove you are right.


Another childish response...
You also made the really bad argument about being more fluid. For example, CGI shows have the most fluidity. They don't really tied to frames, but this "advantage" does not make it better. As for 2d, if they need to make it simpler to have more fluidity, then it's even worse animation-wise. Violet Evergarden looks amazing with really detailed hair, which would mean that JJK S2 has worse animation than a show from 2018.


Also a bad take.
You can't refute me, that's why you try to attack me, but to reflect those stupid statements.
I studied 3d animation on my university. I also studied under directors and learned a lot about post production. I've never worked in the industry, but I know a lot and I even gave you example, kiddo. :)


Lol, yes, that's why I like Zombieland Saga and Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi. :DDDDD
Even JJK S1 is still good. The problem is, most thing after they got SnK, they lowered their production quality.

ktg said:
And these are the more normal replies that I got.


Then what would you consider better? If it's more bland then lights and shadings are worse. Fluidity doesn't make it better. They simplified the designs, so it's also easier to animate, but there are less details.
The background more polished and looks better, but that can't carry a show.


CSM wasn't good. Objective it had many, many mistakes that I multiply times mentioned and even provided proofs. Sorry, it sounds a bit harsh. CSM animation was good, but wasn't great as great as it could have been or it was in other shows. My problem is the same in the other cases, JJK S2 looks good, but not great, look SnK looks good, but not great.
Out of the shows you mentioned, the only show where it was great is Jigokuraku.

ktg said:

"SnK S4 P3 P1 is praised because of the hype, not because of the direction and animation. Animation is actually better than it was for example in S4 P1, but still not great. And the directing is actually bad or more average.

I assume they really followed the manga here, which introduced problems. Small changes would have made it better."

atari2k said:
oh my god you gotta be kidding me. how does simpler character designs create worse animation xd if anything it makes it easier to animate fluidity which in turn creates better animation. just because a character has more creases in their clothing doesn't mean it  has better animation, that would make csm the best animated show of all time if you want to talk about how detailed character designs are. I'm sorry to say but u just got  such a simple mindset about animation and you're clearly not keen on actually learning how anythings works. like I said the amount of detail to keep characters  on model and  to proper lighting is already miles better than season 1. the compositing and everything else is vastly better than season 1 and if you simply think season 1 is better because you like ur  characters to have glossier clothes  with  more detail then that's just a preference.

Hentaii_anime said:
@ktg studied 3d aniamtion my ass. This is your terrible example


First of all the hype for aot was nowhere near p1 hype. It was praised AFTER the episode dropped. Why? Because of good direction and aniamtion. It is probably the best animated ep this year with barley minimum off model shots and well integrated cg( which was better than demon slayer cgi).


What is blud talking lol.

"I assume they followed manga"

Which means you haven't watched the ep, then how do you know it was average? or you haven't read the manga, then how would you know it has problems?

Go take your pills kid and stop learning animation by googling shit

Sanjii_1234 said:
@ktg, lol you did fucking troll course and nothing more, please preach your shitty animation education to your ass not normal people.

Oongbuh said:


You're.... you're joking, right?

I absolutely REFUSE to belive that you unironically, genuinely want to make the claim that JJK, CSM and AOT were "not great", but that Jigokuraku, which was by far their objectively biggest trainwreck in terms of production, which couldn't even hold itself for 3 episodes best without the schedule going to complete shit, had incredibly inconsistent designs, animation that looked janky in and outside of fights, extremely lackluster and oddly executed direction and pacing, overuse of blurring, bad 2nd KA and in-betweening, bad compositing for multiple scenes, and a continuously growing terrible schedule that resulted in multiple animators, animation directors, 2nd KAs, production assistants etc just to finish the episodes, was "great".

Literally NOTHING in Jigokuraku when it comes to either direction or specially animation is even half as good as anything that comes from either of the series you claim as "not great". At best you just have that one bit in episode 2 of Gabimaru fighting those criminals, everything else looks mediocre, if not awful. So unless your definition of good quality is completely random, I can't believe you're not trolling.

I mean, trying to claim Hell's Paradise has "good direction" but then in the same breath say that Hayashi's direction for AOT is "bad" makes me think you really should be the last person anyone should talk to if they ever need reccomendations for anything.

ktg said:
Again, these are the troll takes.


AND IN THE RED CORNEEER...
...another bad take.

You are the third person, who thinks that fluidity equals better animation.
First and foremost, that would not make CSM the best, because it's not even that detailed. Compare a Denji from CSM to Violet from Violet Evergarden.
As for the main idea, if fluidity would count as better animation, then even the worst CGI is better than the best 2d. I don't know which 2d anime you think is the best, but I assume you think CSM has good animation. With your fluidity logic, it would mean that even Ex-Arm is better than CSM. And that's not true.

Animating a stickman on 1s is pretty easy and it will be more fluid than any anime, but because it is as simple as a stickman, we can't talk about a really good animation.
To understand it, let's say we have a highly detailed image and an image with like 2 lines. You want to pan over it. In that case technically you would get the same number of frames, but which one would be the better animation? Obviously the highly detailed one.

I was talking about lights, because that is part of how you draw the shadows on the characters. I even gave you example, you ignored it, so I have nothing else to say. Anything I say at this point will be ignored by you, because you can't understand the facts.

I also react to your theory about me liking certain styles. If that would be true, then I wouldn't like Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi, which has pretty simple design (but that show is actually more consistent).


Lol, you are pretty naive if you think you can separate the hype in these cases. Every problems in the story were overlooked by most of the fans, because of the hype. This is true for P1 and P3 P1.
And second, it feels pretty stupid that I have to point this out, but you couldn't understand it without that. It was praised AFTER, because you can only praise animation after you've seen the animation. Can you praise the animation of CotE S3? No, because it haven't aired yet.
It wasn't as bad as S4 P1, but still wasn't great. Yes, out of that three parts, the last one had the best animation.

Next topic, you need to blend in the 2 styles, when it's not a good animation. That's why you think KnY wasn't that good. But in reality, ufotable doesn't blend together those styles, because they still produce the best CGI. Sorry, second best, I'd say Orange beat them with Trigun Stampede. But it is a fact that MAPPA is not even in the top 5 if we talk about animation. Orange, ufotable, Wit, Cloverworks, shaft or Doga Kobo with Oshi no Ko, they did better job. (This isn't a full list, just some examples.)

I don't know if it's followed the manga or not, because I haven't read the manga. I have seen the episode and I noticed the mistakes. When I read about the show, noone mentioned that they changed things in the episode, so I assumed they followed it, but even if they didn't, that does not make a different, because the problem exists in that episode, it would change the cause.


Great argument, like a 5 year olds. :DDDD

ktg said:
Again, these are the troll takes.


AND IN THE RED CORNEEER...
...another bad take.

You are the third person, who thinks that fluidity equals better animation.
First and foremost, that would not make CSM the best, because it's not even that detailed. Compare a Denji from CSM to Violet from Violet Evergarden.
As for the main idea, if fluidity would count as better animation, then even the worst CGI is better than the best 2d. I don't know which 2d anime you think is the best, but I assume you think CSM has good animation. With your fluidity logic, it would mean that even Ex-Arm is better than CSM. And that's not true.

Animating a stickman on 1s is pretty easy and it will be more fluid than any anime, but because it is as simple as a stickman, we can't talk about a really good animation.
To understand it, let's say we have a highly detailed image and an image with like 2 lines. You want to pan over it. In that case technically you would get the same number of frames, but which one would be the better animation? Obviously the highly detailed one.

I was talking about lights, because that is part of how you draw the shadows on the characters. I even gave you example, you ignored it, so I have nothing else to say. Anything I say at this point will be ignored by you, because you can't understand the facts.

I also react to your theory about me liking certain styles. If that would be true, then I wouldn't like Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi, which has pretty simple design (but that show is actually more consistent).


Lol, you are pretty naive if you think you can separate the hype in these cases. Every problems in the story were overlooked by most of the fans, because of the hype. This is true for P1 and P3 P1.
And second, it feels pretty stupid that I have to point this out, but you couldn't understand it without that. It was praised AFTER, because you can only praise animation after you've seen the animation. Can you praise the animation of CotE S3? No, because it haven't aired yet.
It wasn't as bad as S4 P1, but still wasn't great. Yes, out of that three parts, the last one had the best animation.

Next topic, you need to blend in the 2 styles, when it's not a good animation. That's why you think KnY wasn't that good. But in reality, ufotable doesn't blend together those styles, because they still produce the best CGI. Sorry, second best, I'd say Orange beat them with Trigun Stampede. But it is a fact that MAPPA is not even in the top 5 if we talk about animation. Orange, ufotable, Wit, Cloverworks, shaft or Doga Kobo with Oshi no Ko, they did better job. (This isn't a full list, just some examples.)

I don't know if it's followed the manga or not, because I haven't read the manga. I have seen the episode and I noticed the mistakes. When I read about the show, noone mentioned that they changed things in the episode, so I assumed they followed it, but even if they didn't, that does not make a different, because the problem exists in that episode, it would change the cause.


Great argument, like a 5 year olds. :DDDD

Oongbuh said:




You're.... you're joking, right?

I absolutely REFUSE to belive that you unironically, genuinely want to make the claim that JJK, CSM and AOT were "not great", but that Jigokuraku, which was by far their objectively biggest trainwreck in terms of production, which couldn't even hold itself for 3 episodes best without the schedule going to complete shit, had incredibly inconsistent designs, animation that looked janky in and outside of fights, extremely lackluster and oddly executed direction and pacing, overuse of blurring, bad 2nd KA and in-betweening, bad compositing for multiple scenes, and a continuously growing terrible schedule that resulted in multiple animators, animation directors, 2nd KAs, production assistants etc just to finish the episodes, was "great".

Literally NOTHING in Jigokuraku when it comes to either direction or specially animation is even half as good as anything that comes from either of the series you claim as "not great". At best you just have that one bit in episode 2 of Gabimaru fighting those criminals, everything else looks mediocre, if not awful. So unless your definition of good quality is completely random, I can't believe you're not trolling.

I mean, trying to claim Hell's Paradise has "good direction" but then in the same breath say that Hayashi's direction for AOT is "bad" makes me think you really should be the last person anyone should talk to if they ever need reccomendations for anything.

ChooChoo23 said:
even if they took 5 years to animate, people will still complain, they will still speculate production actually took 6 months and it was rushed and will argue without knowing any real info. And people bashing SNK P3 and CSM need to relax, finish school, get an Animation degree and come back to chat again. Such imbecilic fandom these days

Faxtual_Ghoul said:
Unless they animate Berserk, I don't think they will rise again

DexterDrubo said:

what was the down in quality? CSM which was so good but due to art being subjective some people couldn't digest it and some were straight up hater. JJK s2 is also super good but the artsyle changed which some people can't digest it and then there are haters.. AOT S4 P3 C1 is praised for its direction and animation.
Hell's Paradise, an anime with almost no hype (not as much when compared to their other projects) still had good artstyle,animation and direction.. (the pacing was off but still it was praise worthy)

atari2k said:
violet evergarden is not more detailed than csm lol, you are talking about compositing not actual genga detail which csm is extremely detailed in. compositing is definitely an important aspect and luckily its even better than season 1! you are clearly just upset over a change in style other than anything else, which is okay, you can have your opinion. like I said before, glossy clothes isn't really what makes animation good and high detail characters restricts how u can move the characters without it looking weird. the more detail you have on a character model the more you need to adhere to that character model for it to look good.  if you have less lines you can get more unique and dynamic  shots and movements without spending a year on each frame.  for example csm had very detailed model especially in their clothes. usually when you animate you have layout, Genoa, 2nd ka and  then corrections done by animation directors, in cam due to the detailed character models they had to have 3  animation directors correcting the  same frame after each other to get a cut that had consistent character models because it simply so time consuming to do so. jjk season 2 has the most consistent drawings in the series so  far and there has not been a single bad shot in the whole season so far, animators are allowed more freedom too which means we can get amazing cuts like in episode 3 with gojos blue (k1ro) or toji running around (kosuke kato). if you pay attention to these sequences you will realize how incredibly detailed and complex they are when you see that its all animated in 2d, even the background which we had very little of in season 1, barely any bg animation. season 1 mostly consisted of poorly used cg backgrounds with terrible compositing. I don't expect you to understand how wrong you are with your statements as I assume ur kinda trolling or just willfully ignorant but I'll reiterate this and say that u are completely off the mark. season 2, especially episode 4 had the most consistent high quality animation of any episode in the series.

Sanjii_1234 said:
what can I do, we have to reply a 5 year old with same mindset otherwise he starts babbling some educational shit lol.

Leon888 said:
@ktg you don't know anything about animation and you still talk ? but why do you like so much to be humiliated by everyone?

Ionliosite2 said:


Oh god, no, I want a good studio to animate Berserk if they decide to do another season, not a trainwreck of a studio like this one

ktg said:

Do you notice a pattern here? You make statement without prove, because you can't prove what you said, you make a theory about why I said what I said to attack me personally and not the things that I said.
That is a fallacy, just saying.

No, I was talking about genga and that's better in Violet Evergarden.
Ok, forget genga, let's go with character design. Measure the contour lines of the main characters. That's your homework.
(Spoiler: Violet Evergarden is much more detailed, especially the cloth. Ok, ok, that's not CSM's fault, modern clothes are tend to be less detailed in general.)

As JJK S2, you are saying that it had no bad frame, because you consider the downgraded frames as good.
When you compare for example these 2 shots:
S1: https://beebom.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Gojo-and-Geto-smiling.jpg?w=640
S2: https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2023/07/4ef79-16884936929630-1920.jpg?w=840
You think both are good, while one of them is clearly better than the other.

And yes, if we consider every frame as good, then everything is good, but it also true for every shows' every frames, and that's the problem. You made the argument here that Ex-Arm looks good, because we can consider those frames also good.
So no, especially EP4 was really off if we look at the shadings and lights.


Lol, you really are a kid. xD
I was replied with that because you STARTED talking about having knowledge about animation. :DDDD
You actually called yourself a 5 yo. xDDDD


I do know, you don't. That's why you committed fallacy and didn't even try to refute me, because you can't.
The only reason to ignore any of my points, because you can't really do anything about those. Pretty childish if you ask me.

TaifSux said:
Hear Me Out  Average Static Animation enjoyers who got Annyoed at every little change.......AoT's Direction and Animation was awsome, CSM is one of Mappa's most creative work and JJK S2 is thier best adaptation is recent years.....

If slightly someone says S1 of JJK had better animation than S2 he doesn't understand a jackshit of animaiton and his opinion has no crediblity at all...I am being bland here but thats true, any people who even a slight knowledge and experience with animation would notice the glaring difference between S1 and S2

Hentaii_anime said:
you're the type of guy who doesn't know shit about animation but acts smart with google knowledge. I see you every where shitting on mappa series and bringing up snk in every possible way

Leon888 said:
but because, to defend JJK2 users go to take other works by Mappa, especially the most controversial ones for a series of reasons, especially Aot, which had a rubbish direction and animations, lol