| Not sure if MAPPA thinks it's a success when they rented a 16k capacity building for a CSM event which bombed. I'm sure streaming was fine enough. |
| Overseas sales for popular shows (particular shonen jump) is somewhat of a joke almost always. Look at the box office of recent anime movies like the sao or mha ones. Only at max 1/8th of the revenue came from us and Canada. The west simply doesn't have the buying power that Japan does. You need a very high end influencer like bts jungkook pooling his money to support it. Gigguk making a video praising csm ain't doing shit. No amount of praise will do shit. Kaguya ultra romantic is rated highly yet couldn't cross 2k per average. Overseas can only help if they create something like a successful gacha that can reinvigorate interest. Or if crunchyroll pushes for a show to be made. Everything csm related originated in Japan. Japan has all stakes in. |
Hyrulia said: It's a big flop in the domestic market, the market that does count.. For studios taking this kind of projects without a committee backing you up to maximize profit is high risk high reward, but when you flop it will really hurt. And besides Bluray sales, i imagine nips won't buy merchandises and other CSM related things from the studio, can they recover only from streaming platforms? Overseas markets nowadays only help with light novel series that have smaller marketing budgets and thus don't need as much to break even. But a shonen jump series with massive marketing budget has such a high break even point, overseas cannot help if domestic isn't in. |
| Hmm just realized abt the whole mappa literally like funded this anime by themselves like there's no other production committee involved in this which just led me having a bigger respect for mappa lol. They literally have like full control over how the anime is going to be to the point mappa prob realized this gonna get a lot of attention from international audience wise but not Japanese so i think they know what's coming for them in terms of pros and cons especially since this is a massive passion project. It's so not like other animes which is refreshing for me rn. |
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Madara545 said: Man that sucks... Really thought Chainsaw Man fit the new type of "I'm Superheroin' for my salary" hero that's more relatable than the idealists and edge-lords. Guess it's joining the No Game No Life and High School of the Dead Pit of One Hit Wonders.Filto said: I'm making this thread to explain the reason of why I think the Chainsawman TV Anime underperformed. I don't think it's a huge flop, but I'm sure a much bigger success was expected. It is not my intention to anger anyone or pick a fight, I'm just sharing my thoughts. Why do I think the anime is underperforming? Let's see the arguments some make to say it's a success: Argument 1: IT'S POPULAR!!! Practically worthless. Bandwagon-hopping ''fans'' don’t pay for the bills, already proven useless in the past. Popularity doesn't translate proportionally to success. The anime only sold 1.7k BDs, which is disappointing considering that, for example, Kimetsu no Yaiba sold 40K BDs and Jujutsu Kaisen sold 20K BDs. Argument 2: BDs aren't important anymore I agree, the BDs are only a small part of the profits of an animation studio now. Let's see it's ranks on TV and streaming services! Mogged by Gundam and MHA, assraped by Spy on TV. Beaten by Isekai sword loli on Abema. Beaten by Gundam on NicoNico. Beaten by Spy on Hulu. Beaten by Spy on Netflix. Beaten by Spy and Gundam on U-Next. Competed with Spy on Amazon. ''But second place of all these platforms!'' No. Get first place for most before making statements like being the most successful anime of the season and then we will talk. Argument 3: Manga sales Dropping every week despite the relentless shilling (a full episode of Ametalk). Having only 23 million copies in distribution (NOT SOLD!) is pitiful for the amount of hype this franchise had. Argument 4: But it's an international success! Barely a fraction of Japan sales much less France. Also, see Argument 1, most of the international ''fans'' don't pay to watch anime. This international ''success'' won't cover the costs of the anime. Argument 5: But MAPPA already got broadcasting rights money! You might have a point here. But if that’s the argument being used, then don’t call it a big success. MAPPA already got what they came for right? It doesn’t matter because they already took off with the money. Rankings don’t matter unless its absolute flop tier. My conclusion: If that’s what you call a success, your standards are low. I’ll give you that it’s not a flop technically but with all the expectations MAPPA had going in with the shilling, it’s embarrassing. I'm sure CSM Season 2 / Movie will have budget cuts, and will look worse than Season 1. I also think the Part 2 of the manga won't be adapted at all. And if it is, it might not be MAPPA. What do you think, is CSM the success MAPPA expected to be, or not? Thanks for reading! from what I think, the people in Japan most definitely did not like the anime. they loved the manga and so it was very much hyped up so all the streaming platforms over there wanted to get their hands on it. I guess that's where most of mappas income from the anime as of now has come from. but from the stuff I've seen, they did not like the anime at all with some forming a petition to redo the anime. from what I've seen, their major complaints is that some important parts were cut out and some of the dialogue wasn't correct. also, the voice actors were apparently forced to speak in a low voice or something, making the line delivery not as good as it should be and stuff like that. so from the hate this anime is getting from Japan, its probably safe to say that MAPPA has probably made as much money as they would get from csm while it was airing and not right now. People in Japan are seriously disappointed in how it turned out and that's why the sales are low. nobody wants to rewatch something they don't find interest in. in this way, I would term this anime a failure, coz it didn't satisfy a huge chunk of its target audience and if the blue ray sales are any indication, its not doing too good financially. yeah, MAPPA has made alot of money off the broadcasting companies, but that's probably it. maybe it's not going to cash in any more. as of now, the only way they can salvage the situation will be to other remake the anime. they can ignore all the complaints and proceed to season 2, though obviously with worse animation, and this will lower the value of the anime series it's such a shame coz the staff poured their souls into this project and it ended up getting a huge backlash also, i don't think the series has failed financially coz they've already made alot of money as is. but they probably aren't going to make any more and if they proceed with season 2, then it most definitely will be a financial failure |
Madara545 said: Another one of the big complaints was how they took the hyper-realistic route for the adaptation. Sucks that the fault for that decision falls mainly onto one man (Keisuke Seshimo).from what I think, the people in Japan most definitely did not like the anime. they loved the manga and so it was very much hyped up so all the streaming platforms over there wanted to get their hands on it. I guess that's where most of mappas income from the anime as of now has come from. but from the stuff I've seen, they did not like the anime at all with some forming a petition to redo the anime. For the people talking about how Blu-ray sales don't mean anything, the studio doesn't get that much from streaming services. Manga sales don't benefit the studio, and merchandise sales go to the licensors. Overseas, people tend to stream or pirate. By financial means, I don't think it is or will be a success. By other means, it picked up a lot of fans, and betrayed the expectations of some of the existing fans, so it may or may not be a success in that regard. |
I can't even function as a human being anymore. |
SanessyAdversary said: I wasn't a huge fan of this adaptation but I have huge respect for the fact that MAPPA didn't rely on production committees. If more studios start producing their own shows then there's a good chance working conditions and pay for animators, as well as increase in consistent animation quality could get much better. It's taken a while, but it looks like the industry is starting to learn a little bit from KyoAni.Hmm just realized abt the whole mappa literally like funded this anime by themselves like there's no other production committee involved in this which just led me having a bigger respect for mappa lol. They literally have like full control over how the anime is going to be to the point mappa prob realized this gonna get a lot of attention from international audience wise but not Japanese so i think they know what's coming for them in terms of pros and cons especially since this is a massive passion project. It's so not like other animes which is refreshing for me rn. |
| I can't even function as a human being anymore. |
| Chainsaw Man is a new show so its dedicated fanbase likely have not been around if they value this show over something that released a while back. So its fanbase likely does not have the means to buy the merch. A lot of anime fans do just watch anime off some illegal site and dont spend a penny into the medium. So every penny counts to break even on Mappa's marketing |
Filto said: Undeniable true fact. A large portion of anime social media are likely broke college students or jobless that watch off some illegal sites. Majority of anime fans I know don't spend a dime on stuff and just watch shows that are popular like spy x and csm. Saying shonen jump dominates west is a joke if the west cannot even save Chainsaw man from flopping due to massive budget.Argument 4: But it's an international success! Barely a fraction of Japan sales much less France. Also, see Argument 1, most of the international ''fans'' don't pay to watch anime. This international ''success'' won't cover the costs of the anime. Plus they have little exposure to the anime over the years. MagiRevo for some stupid reason is like #1 on karma polls, but none of it is translating to increased circulation where it is the top selling light novels. CSM is a new anime so fans with cash from work and have been around a while likely won't value it over a long running series. |
| I read that the Oricon charts didn't account for the online sales on MAPPA's website. Considering the fact that it was self produced and (from what I can tell) self licensed, the money from merch and Blu-ray sales ALL go to MAPPA, so the sales mean a lot more. Still don't know if that equates to it being a success or not though. I don't like this adaptation of CSM, but I want the trend of self-produced anime amongst studios to catch on, so I want the anime to do well. Apparently the Oricon charts reported a measly 325 Blu-rays sold in it's second week, so hopefully there are at least SOME sales going unreported... |
| I can't even function as a human being anymore. |
gekojay said: The difference is too large. No way can mappa have sold tens of thousands on their site but not on sites that are scraped off oricon. Aniplex also sells their blu rays off other means.I read that the Oricon charts didn't account for the online sales on MAPPA's website. Considering the fact that it was self produced and (from what I can tell) self licensed, the money from merch and Blu-ray sales ALL go to MAPPA, so the sales mean a lot more. Still don't know if that equates to it being a success or not though. I don't like this adaptation of CSM, but I want the trend of self-produced anime amongst studios to catch on, so I want the anime to do well. Apparently the Oricon charts reported a measly 325 Blu-rays sold in it's second week, so hopefully there are at least SOME sales going unreported... 86, engage kiss, and even kaguya are now getting shafted on events due to Lycoris having sold better than even demon slayer. Any articles saying mappa sold like ten thousand on their site is lying. They got tens of thousands of visitors but most likely they didn't buy anything.. |
QPR said: It all boils down to this basically. Whenever a project is largely backed by a studio vs a publisher, they need their BD sales to break even. They wouldn't spend so much on marketing just to get 1700.It was a huge failure, even one of their directors admitted they needed BD sales, probably tens of thousands to break even, they got 1700. It's a financial disaster, logically there will be no more episodes because they know it will lose even more money. Look how Aniplex treated 86, Engage Kiss, and Kaguya Love Is War after Lycoris Recoil. They get shafted from their promotional events, and Lycoris Recoil got pushed front and center. Lycoris gets majority of merchandising deals and gets an anime sequel. High end production committees now are expecting 10k sellers. Publishers like Kadokawa are no different since they need circulation for a new light novel series to be in the top 10 for its initial run. Otherwise hopes of a long running series are scrapped. Polls, karma, mal, imdb, whatever is irrelevant The merchandising deals from CSM are good but likely not enough to break even since light novel series that have a fraction of the marketing and likely production budget have more. Unless you get some influencer like BTS pooling millions into the project, you are more less fighting a losing battle |
icefirestone23Feb 14, 2023 6:50 PM
| Goes to show that a lot of anime "success" and "fan support" is fake. Like 90% of anime get cancelled after 2 seasons to keep production costs low and to pump the next thing. Most "fans" spend nothing or close to on the medium. Anime gachas close at an alarming rate. If celebrities love csm so much, why did all of not spend anything on it |
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