Shikimori's Not Just a Cutie
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May 2, 2022 4:58 AM
#1
I hope it doesn't become as overhyped as it was before it aired. As a manga reader, I was pretty hyped for this and I would have recommended this to anyone looking for a sweet, wholesome romcom. That's pretty much how I felt. I never hyped this up as this season's My Dress Up Darling. Just so we're clear, I liked MDUD as well. It was a solid romcom but I wouldn't say the two are similar. Shikimori and MDUD, and their respective main girls are completely different from each other. Some may like Marin and some may like Shikimori. I personally like both though I will admit I lean more towards Shikimori's character. Imagine my surprise when this became one of the most divisive anime of the season. Considering the growing production problems of Shield Hero and how divisive it's writing was, it really shocked me that this anime is probably receiving more hate than Shield Hero. This show is a textbook case of what happens when something receives so much hype that people get the wrong expectations. I'll say what I keep saying in other comments I've made regarding this show, I got what I came for, and even more considering how Doga Kobo really nailed the adaptation despite suffering from a COVID outbreak. Anyways, if this does get a season 2, I hope people don't overhype this like before. Speaking of which, does anyone know if Doga Kobo does sequels? I checked all the anime they've made and the only anime they've done which they followed up on is Himouto! Umaru-chan. Considering this has over a 100 chapters already, they should have enough material and I do hope they do a season 2 on this because this series is really good despite its imperfections and from what I checked, it seems it's popular enough in Japan. |
May 2, 2022 5:18 AM
#2
if this gets a season 2 i’ll learn how to do a backflip😂 |
May 2, 2022 5:19 AM
#3
I completely agree the show is really cute and absolutely overhated. It's just people who want their alpha male gigachad grumpy ass hachiman type main character for a rom-com couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. I'm not a huge fan of the main dude in shikimori myself either he's sort of annoying to watch at times. But he's not really awful by any means. I think any sane person can agree that there are way WAY worse shows rated higher than this one. |
May 2, 2022 5:26 AM
#4
I still don't fully understand how did it mange to get overhyped to this extent. The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer. Supposedly manga readers overhyped it with Shikimori best girl when MDUD was airing, but that again, doesn't have anything to do with the actual show, just your usual waifu comparisons. Some manga readers also say it's a bad adaptation, can't really say much about it, since I didn't spend much time thinking about it from that point of view. I still spend the majority of the show just smiling but maybe being a manga reader helps. I really hope they do a second season because I really like what they are doing in the latest parts of Manga. |
May 2, 2022 5:55 AM
#6
Fans could hype up their favorite anime as much as they want, no need to feel bad about it. Dunno about s2 tho, I feel like the adaptation kinda jumping chapters here & there. |
May 2, 2022 6:23 AM
#7
Did Doga Koba even make a season two of any series they did in recent years? |
May 2, 2022 7:33 AM
#8
Kahirama said: I still don't fully understand how did it mange to get overhyped to this extent. The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer. Supposedly manga readers overhyped it with Shikimori best girl when MDUD was airing, but that again, doesn't have anything to do with the actual show, just your usual waifu comparisons. Some manga readers also say it's a bad adaptation, can't really say much about it, since I didn't spend much time thinking about it from that point of view. I still spend the majority of the show just smiling but maybe being a manga reader helps. I really hope they do a second season because I really like what they are doing in the latest parts of Manga. "The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer." It isn't at all. Based on the trailer I and many others assumed this will be a show with some kind of twist/mystery/catch about the main girl. And I don't mean the bullshit, what everybody repeats like a broken record: "She is cute/cool". The trailer doesn't focus fully on wholesome SoL vibes but focuses on Shikimori's "darker" side (which doesn't exist just a "cool" side), and implies, that there is more to this when this doesn't even come up in the show in the way you would expect it. So this was actually intentional in the marketing, and an actual deception. Shikimori in the trailer gave off a bit of Zero2/Higurashi/Garden of Sinners vibe, so many thought this would be a bit more interesting series, and the main girl will have darker secrets/personality or she has some kind of secret role etc. Because the main girl and the series were pretty hyped, many (without prior knowledge) assumed based on this, and the trailer, that the show will have more substance behind it or a darker/comedy-oriented theme around the girl's darker side. That is one of the main reasons behind the disappointment, and the hatred it gets, the other was, as you mentioned, the constant comparison with Marin, and her slander by Shikimori fans, which built up both expectations for Shikimori, and prior resentment towards her and the show, due to the behavior of the Shikimori fans. |
May 2, 2022 8:32 AM
#9
fenrirr2 said: I don't agree with even half of what the OP says, but these problems are mostly all on you. I don't recall anyone who thought there was some genuine mystery or darker element at play here. The synopsis of the trailer is incredibly straightforward, she's an adorable/cute girl, but she also has an intense "cool" side to her in certain moments, it's really just as simple as it sounds. I picked up on the obvious light femdom sort of themes here immediately, and my first thought was whether or not I would even be able to tolerate the ML. I assumed that people hyping her up as the queen of waifu were into dominant girls, and that she would be a much more palatable version of Nagatoro-san. Kahirama said: I still don't fully understand how did it mange to get overhyped to this extent. The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer. Supposedly manga readers overhyped it with Shikimori best girl when MDUD was airing, but that again, doesn't have anything to do with the actual show, just your usual waifu comparisons. Some manga readers also say it's a bad adaptation, can't really say much about it, since I didn't spend much time thinking about it from that point of view. I still spend the majority of the show just smiling but maybe being a manga reader helps. I really hope they do a second season because I really like what they are doing in the latest parts of Manga. "The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer." It isn't at all. Based on the trailer I and many others assumed this will be a show with some kind of twist/mystery/catch about the main girl. And I don't mean the bullshit, what everybody repeats like a broken record: "She is cute/cool". The trailer doesn't focus fully on wholesome SoL vibes but focuses on Shikimori's "darker" side (which doesn't exist just a "cool" side), and implies, that there is more to this when this doesn't even come up in the show in the way you would expect it. So this was actually intentional in the marketing, and an actual deception. Shikimori in the trailer gave off a bit of Zero2/Higurashi/Garden of Sinners vibe, so many thought this would be a bit more interesting series, and the main girl will have darker secrets/personality or she has some kind of secret role etc. Because the main girl and the series were pretty hyped, many (without prior knowledge) assumed based on this, and the trailer, that the show will have more substance behind it or a darker/comedy-oriented theme around the girl's darker side. That is one of the main reasons behind the disappointment, and the hatred it gets, the other was, as you mentioned, the constant comparison with Marin, and her slander by Shikimori fans, which built up both expectations for Shikimori, and prior resentment towards her and the show, due to the behavior of the Shikimori fans. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
May 2, 2022 8:40 AM
#10
This show is right up my alley. If I’m the only person supporting a S2 then so be it 😂 |
May 2, 2022 9:03 AM
#11
May 2, 2022 9:04 AM
#12
I mean I never hyped it up or saw trailer. I just see basic SoL but with roles reversed. |
May 2, 2022 9:23 AM
#13
cringeylazy said: What the hell are you even talking about? The MC of one of the best rom-coms in recent memory was completely socially inept in MDUD, easily more so than Izumi, he's just one small step above a harem protagonist. The problem is that Izumi comes across as completely useless in the anime, while the manga handles it much better.I completely agree the show is really cute and absolutely overhated. It's just people who want their alpha male gigachad grumpy ass hachiman type main character for a rom-com couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. I'm not a huge fan of the main dude in shikimori myself either he's sort of annoying to watch at times. But he's not really awful by any means. I think any sane person can agree that there are way WAY worse shows rated higher than this one. Kahirama said: You're severely underestimating the power of a waifu, and it was hyped up by some of the bigger anime content creators.I still don't fully understand how did it mange to get overhyped to this extent. The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer. Supposedly manga readers overhyped it with Shikimori best girl when MDUD was airing, but that again, doesn't have anything to do with the actual show, just your usual waifu comparisons. Some manga readers also say it's a bad adaptation, can't really say much about it, since I didn't spend much time thinking about it from that point of view. I still spend the majority of the show just smiling but maybe being a manga reader helps. I really hope they do a second season because I really like what they are doing in the latest parts of Manga. It got more popular than Komi S2, that's pretty huge. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
May 2, 2022 9:44 AM
#14
Kahirama said: I still don't fully understand how did it mange to get overhyped to this extent. The show is basically exactly what is shown in the trailer. Supposedly manga readers overhyped it with Shikimori best girl when MDUD was airing, but that again, doesn't have anything to do with the actual show, just your usual waifu comparisons. Some manga readers also say it's a bad adaptation, can't really say much about it, since I didn't spend much time thinking about it from that point of view. I still spend the majority of the show just smiling but maybe being a manga reader helps. I really hope they do a second season because I really like what they are doing in the latest parts of Manga. Basically the art and animation of the trailer of this show were Top notch, also the way they portrayed Shikimori in that made most(including myself) very eager to see how it plays out. The MC and Shikimori just by seeing the promotional Visual thought they're like Hiro and Zero two, dominating girl; recessive boy. But more nope it turned kinda flat to me, but it's watchable tho, MC kinda annoying that's it |
May 2, 2022 9:46 AM
#15
You do know that Doga Kobo doesn't handle sequels right? So unlikely to happen. |
May 2, 2022 10:25 AM
#16
Off the top of my head, they did 2 seasons of New Game. If it gets a second season.....then it gets a second season. Good for the people who enjoy the show. Haters will just have to deal with it. |
May 2, 2022 10:25 AM
#17
In a simple explanation: Marin was a cute, wholesome, lewd girl which many people loved. but Shikimori is a cute, wholesome, cool girl which people don't seem to appreciate. like both of them are good just because she is a bit on the cooler side doesn't mean she is not waifu material. As for the design, I think Doga Koba makes anything cute, for someone who read a bit of manga, I would say she was drawn more badass in it, so maybe the badass to cute conversion doesn't work for some people who complain she seems cringey and stuff. All and all overhype really is the enemy at the end of the day. |
May 2, 2022 10:35 AM
#18
TypicalWeeb047 said: Almost everyone appreciates Shikimori, except for the people who expected deep, complex characters in this simple cute school rom-com, and who write her off for being a "mary sue". The problem is the quality of the show, and Izumi being an insufferably useless character in the show. It also isn't helping that they're leaning into the comedy more than the manga, and hardly any of it is landing. In a simple explanation: Marin was a cute, wholesome, lewd girl which many people loved. but Shikimori is a cute, wholesome, cool girl which people don't seem to appreciate. like both of them are good just because she is a bit on the cooler side doesn't mean she is not waifu material. As for the design, I think Doga Koba makes anything cute, for someone who read a bit of manga, I would say she was drawn more badass in it, so maybe the badass to cute conversion doesn't work for some people who complain she seems cringey and stuff. All and all overhype really is the enemy at the end of the day. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
May 2, 2022 10:43 AM
#19
LostSpectre said: TypicalWeeb047 said: Almost everyone appreciates Shikimori, except for the people who expected deep, complex characters in this simple cute school rom-com, and who write her off for being a "mary sue". The problem is the quality of the show, and Izumi being an insufferably useless character in the show. It also isn't helping that they're leaning into the comedy more than the manga, and hardly any of it is landing. In a simple explanation: Marin was a cute, wholesome, lewd girl which many people loved. but Shikimori is a cute, wholesome, cool girl which people don't seem to appreciate. like both of them are good just because she is a bit on the cooler side doesn't mean she is not waifu material. As for the design, I think Doga Koba makes anything cute, for someone who read a bit of manga, I would say she was drawn more badass in it, so maybe the badass to cute conversion doesn't work for some people who complain she seems cringey and stuff. All and all overhype really is the enemy at the end of the day. Would agree on the comedy part because it seems to be very simmered down. but the part with Izumi is what I don't understand like this ain't a shounen anime or a anime where they have to get together. They are already together and having their sweet time together, if the problem is his misfortune then that's another story. |
May 2, 2022 10:49 AM
#20
TypicalWeeb047 said: The problem is that the direction of the anime practically makes him a downright unlikable character who seemingly has little to no redeeming qualities. The manga understands that early on he's a bit more on the helpless side, which is why it incorporates all of this early characterization and development for the two leads, which helps endear you towards both of them and their relationship, cut that out from the anime and you have a lot of bad luck sequences strung together, not even including all the additional bad luck that was added, because the creative team thinks him being pathetic is somehow funny. LostSpectre said: TypicalWeeb047 said: In a simple explanation: Marin was a cute, wholesome, lewd girl which many people loved. but Shikimori is a cute, wholesome, cool girl which people don't seem to appreciate. like both of them are good just because she is a bit on the cooler side doesn't mean she is not waifu material. As for the design, I think Doga Koba makes anything cute, for someone who read a bit of manga, I would say she was drawn more badass in it, so maybe the badass to cute conversion doesn't work for some people who complain she seems cringey and stuff. All and all overhype really is the enemy at the end of the day. Would agree on the comedy part because it seems to be very simmered down. but the part with Izumi is what I don't understand like this ain't a shounen anime or a anime where they have to get together. They are already together and having their sweet time together, if the problem is his misfortune then that's another story. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
May 2, 2022 10:51 AM
#21
Every third post is thrashing the anime in some way or the other. Expectations sure are dangerous. |
May 2, 2022 11:08 AM
#22
LostSpectre said: TypicalWeeb047 said: The problem is that the direction of the anime practically makes him a downright unlikable character who seemingly has little to no redeeming qualities. The manga understands that early on he's a bit more on the helpless side, which is why it incorporates all of this early characterization and development for the two leads, which helps endear you towards both of them and their relationship, cut that out from the anime and you have a lot of bad luck sequences strung together, not even including all the additional bad luck that was added, because the creative team thinks him being pathetic is somehow funny. LostSpectre said: TypicalWeeb047 said: Almost everyone appreciates Shikimori, except for the people who expected deep, complex characters in this simple cute school rom-com, and who write her off for being a "mary sue". The problem is the quality of the show, and Izumi being an insufferably useless character in the show. It also isn't helping that they're leaning into the comedy more than the manga, and hardly any of it is landing. In a simple explanation: Marin was a cute, wholesome, lewd girl which many people loved. but Shikimori is a cute, wholesome, cool girl which people don't seem to appreciate. like both of them are good just because she is a bit on the cooler side doesn't mean she is not waifu material. As for the design, I think Doga Koba makes anything cute, for someone who read a bit of manga, I would say she was drawn more badass in it, so maybe the badass to cute conversion doesn't work for some people who complain she seems cringey and stuff. All and all overhype really is the enemy at the end of the day. Would agree on the comedy part because it seems to be very simmered down. but the part with Izumi is what I don't understand like this ain't a shounen anime or a anime where they have to get together. They are already together and having their sweet time together, if the problem is his misfortune then that's another story. Yeah, as I have read the manga a little, I get the allure of thier relationship, but as for anime only viewers it might not catch their attention. Even if it did the slow comedy might damper it. |
May 2, 2022 2:10 PM
#23
If it gets a season 2 then that’s ok I guess however I will say one thing, this anime was the most overhyped anime this season it really isn’t all that good as everyone was saying it was gonna be plus the show is mostly carried by shikimori’s looks and personality |
May 2, 2022 2:26 PM
#24
HOODIEBABA said: Every third post is thrashing the anime in some way or the other. Expectations sure are dangerous. It’s because both sides feed into it. People post their hate thread, then super fans freak out that there are mean unfair people on the internet. It killed any desire I had to continue the show. If people need to justify it this badly it can’t get any better. They’re not content with a show being okay, they’re adamant it’s good and the haters are just wrong. |
May 2, 2022 6:47 PM
#25
cringeylazy said: I completely agree the show is really cute and absolutely overhated. It's just people who want their alpha male gigachad grumpy ass hachiman type main character for a rom-com couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. I'm not a huge fan of the main dude in shikimori myself either he's sort of annoying to watch at times. But he's not really awful by any means. I think any sane person can agree that there are way WAY worse shows rated higher than this one. Comparing the MC in this show to the MC in Rent a girlfriend is like comparing trash to garbage. |
May 2, 2022 11:11 PM
#27
SkyhighCFC said: cringeylazy said: I completely agree the show is really cute and absolutely overhated. It's just people who want their alpha male gigachad grumpy ass hachiman type main character for a rom-com couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. I'm not a huge fan of the main dude in shikimori myself either he's sort of annoying to watch at times. But he's not really awful by any means. I think any sane person can agree that there are way WAY worse shows rated higher than this one. Comparing the MC in this show to the MC in Rent a girlfriend is like comparing trash to garbage. Sure just blatently ignore the entire rest of the comment. Izumi is undoubtedly way better than kazuya or whatever his name is. Literally comparing a cuck to a loving boyfriend that's clumsy. |
May 2, 2022 11:50 PM
#28
Hyping this to be the next My Dress up Darling was the biggest mistake. Some went as far as calling this "better" was downright delusional imo. When people make unwarranted statements that irk fans into digging in their feet to defend their preferred anime then you're in for almost every possible comparison under a microscope. |
"Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
May 2, 2022 11:55 PM
#29
Idk why people are mad it doesn’t adapt the manga page by page. The manga is VERY episodic, and would pace terribly with a 20 minute anime episode. And the “important” scenes the manga enthusiasts are claiming to be cut are just her being cool. All the plot relevant scenes are there. |
May 3, 2022 2:23 AM
#30
cringeylazy said: Gojo from Sono Bisque was socially inept as well. The problem that people are having with this MC is that he's super hard to watch, the stuff he does for example that "hnggggggggggg" from episode 2 was super hard to watch. Nobody here has problem with him being socially inept, I mean is he even socially inept? He has friends and a girlfriend? couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. . |
The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
May 3, 2022 2:35 AM
#31
TsutanaiFuun said: cringeylazy said: Gojo from Sono Bisque was socially inept as well. The problem that people are having with this MC is that he's super hard to watch, the stuff he does for example that "hnggggggggggg" from episode 2 was super hard to watch. Nobody here has problem with him being socially inept, I mean is he even socially inept? He has friends and a girlfriend? couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. . While I agree it was cringe to watch him act that way. I still definitely see a gender role problem going on. If an anime girl did the exact same thing no one would bat an eye. Gojo is a better example as I've said in later comments already I don't like the main character particularly myself. It's just I don't understand the abundance of hate that there is unlike anything I've seen before on MAL for something that in my opinion really doesn't warrent it. The main character is a cute boy instead of a 'alpha male' it shouldn't be an objectively bad show because of that. Obviously this is my opinion and based on the majority of other peoples opinions I suppose I might be wrong. |
May 3, 2022 5:27 AM
#32
I just don’t understand why he has to be so clumsy it kinda messes up the story |
May 3, 2022 7:00 AM
#33
cringeylazy said: SkyhighCFC said: cringeylazy said: I completely agree the show is really cute and absolutely overhated. It's just people who want their alpha male gigachad grumpy ass hachiman type main character for a rom-com couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. I'm not a huge fan of the main dude in shikimori myself either he's sort of annoying to watch at times. But he's not really awful by any means. I think any sane person can agree that there are way WAY worse shows rated higher than this one. Comparing the MC in this show to the MC in Rent a girlfriend is like comparing trash to garbage. Sure just blatently ignore the entire rest of the comment. Izumi is undoubtedly way better than kazuya or whatever his name is. Literally comparing a cuck to a loving boyfriend that's clumsy. Kazuya might be a cuck, but at least he's useful to the one he likes/loves. Kazuya in the movie arc showed more resolve and character than I think Izumi is even capable of at this point. Doesn't change the fact he's a pathetic dude, but I can't really say much better for Izumi. Izumi loves his girlfriend and...that's...pretty much it for his character 😭? Oh and like you said he's clumsy and he's also pretty useless. So like I said, it's like comparing trash to garbage. |
May 3, 2022 7:03 AM
#34
Janethan23 said: Hyping this to be the next My Dress up Darling was the biggest mistake. Some went as far as calling this "better" was downright delusional imo. When people make unwarranted statements that irk fans into digging in their feet to defend their preferred anime then you're in for almost every possible comparison under a microscope. I agree with this completely. Most of the dislike for this show comes from how its manga fans and haters of MDUD hyped this up to be a "better show with a better girl", and when it finally dropped and the vast majority of people were let down by the first 2 episodes after all that hyping up, it can lead to genuine hatred of the show and its fans. |
May 3, 2022 7:32 AM
#35
cringeylazy said: TsutanaiFuun said: cringeylazy said: couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. . While I agree it was cringe to watch him act that way. I still definitely see a gender role problem going on. If an anime girl did the exact same thing no one would bat an eye. Gojo is a better example as I've said in later comments already I don't like the main character particularly myself. It's just I don't understand the abundance of hate that there is unlike anything I've seen before on MAL for something that in my opinion really doesn't warrent it. The main character is a cute boy instead of a 'alpha male' it shouldn't be an objectively bad show because of that. Obviously this is my opinion and based on the majority of other peoples opinions I suppose I might be wrong. There are shows, where the MC isn't an alpha male, for example, Gojo from MDUD or Nasa from Tonikawai (who isn't strong, tall, or good looking, "just" smart, hard-working, problem-solver and dependable). But it is important, that they still have other good qualities or something they can provide to the girl, something that the viewer can admire or strive for, even if they aren't self-insert alfa-chads. They can contribute something to the relationship, they can be useful to the girl, and it makes it believable, that the female lead could fall in love with them, even if their relationship isn't the generic strong-alpha male - passive girl type. Here the problem isn't simply, that Izumi is not an alpha, but that he is also stripped of every useful and admirable trait, and his personality and agency are incredibly lacking. His only role is to be a tool in the show and he doesn't feel like a real character, and certainly doesn't feel like somebody who could be in such a relationship. Similarly, under-written female characters exist in anime, but generally only in badly written, trashed on harem shows, where their only role is being eye-candy, and providing fan service, hence they are at least aesthetically well-designed (which Izumi isn't). In well-written, and well-received romcoms or romantic stories both the Male and Female lead are far more developed, and better written, than Izumi here, so not, the problem isn't just the gender reversal here. |
May 3, 2022 8:13 AM
#36
fenrirr2 said: cringeylazy said: TsutanaiFuun said: cringeylazy said: Gojo from Sono Bisque was socially inept as well. The problem that people are having with this MC is that he's super hard to watch, the stuff he does for example that "hnggggggggggg" from episode 2 was super hard to watch. Nobody here has problem with him being socially inept, I mean is he even socially inept? He has friends and a girlfriend? couldn't handle the concept of a dude being socially inept having a girlfriend. People are really reacting as if the main character is as bad as rent a girlfriend or something. . While I agree it was cringe to watch him act that way. I still definitely see a gender role problem going on. If an anime girl did the exact same thing no one would bat an eye. Gojo is a better example as I've said in later comments already I don't like the main character particularly myself. It's just I don't understand the abundance of hate that there is unlike anything I've seen before on MAL for something that in my opinion really doesn't warrent it. The main character is a cute boy instead of a 'alpha male' it shouldn't be an objectively bad show because of that. Obviously this is my opinion and based on the majority of other peoples opinions I suppose I might be wrong. There are shows, where the MC isn't an alpha male, for example, Gojo from MDUD or Nasa from Tonikawai (who isn't strong, tall, or good looking, "just" smart, hard-working, problem-solver and dependable). But it is important, that they still have other good qualities or something they can provide to the girl, something that the viewer can admire or strive for, even if they aren't self-insert alfa-chads. They can contribute something to the relationship, they can be useful to the girl, and it makes it believable, that the female lead could fall in love with them, even if their relationship isn't the generic strong-alpha male - passive girl type. Here the problem isn't simply, that Izumi is not an alpha, but that he is also stripped of every useful and admirable trait, and his personality and agency are incredibly lacking. His only role is to be a tool in the show and he doesn't feel like a real character, and certainly doesn't feel like somebody who could be in such a relationship. Similarly, under-written female characters exist in anime, but generally only in badly written, trashed on harem shows, where their only role is being eye-candy, and providing fan service, hence they are at least aesthetically well-designed (which Izumi isn't). In well-written, and well-received romcoms or romantic stories both the Male and Female lead are far more developed, and better written, than Izumi here, so not, the problem isn't just the gender reversal here. Now you put it like that you're absolutely right. Thank you for being so civil about and explaining it so clearly unlike most. I still don't really understand why he's treated as an abomination of a character when ,especially from how you word it, he's just bland. Which I absolutely agree. |
May 3, 2022 8:27 AM
#37
That's because: First, Shikamori is overly hated because it is getting compared to My Dress Up Darling and to other romcom/slice of life series. And yeah, the fandom overhyped it so much i remember them saying, "shikamori is better than my dress up darling" "shikamori is better than marin" "shikamori is going to be the best girl this year" and so on and so forth. That caught the attention of many and so, the criticisms started. Second, because of the quality of the story. I mean, Shikamori is okay, it is cute but compared to other series, it lacks a lot. And since many people is keeping their eyes on it, they tend to point out every single flaw of the series (which majority is true, sadly). |
May 3, 2022 8:46 AM
#38
fenrirr2 said: There are shows, where the MC isn't an alpha male, for example, Gojo from MDUD or Nasa from Tonikawai (who isn't strong, tall, or good looking, "just" smart, hard-working, problem-solver and dependable). But it is important, that they still have other good qualities or something they can provide to the girl, something that the viewer can admire or strive for, even if they aren't self-insert alfa-chads. It's silly that you make bold claims that Izumi is a character that doesn't feel like a real character or a person, yet you put Nasa on a pedestal despite him being a Gary-stu gifted with remarkable intelligence and not a huge challenge to even tickle his brilliant mind. His biggest hurdles were to get a job and a place to live with his girl that managed to stop an ass hauling truck. To me that sounds like some absurd comedy trying to make gag characters look like relatable people when they are not. fenrirr2 said: They can contribute something to the relationship, they can be useful to the girl, and it makes it believable, that the female lead could fall in love with them, even if their relationship isn't the generic strong-alpha male - passive girl type. We're only 4 episodes in on Shikimori, so it feels like you're jumping on the gun preemptively. Izumi hasn't contributed much so far towards Shikimori. Buuuut, he's been quite compliant with her, small gestures like him adressing that he wants to do things Shikimori wants to do, like choosing a movie, rather than them watching what Izumi wants. That shows up a lot of couple dynamics and this is petty stuff some actual couple break off because they can't have a good balance on give/take situations. fenrirr2 said: Here the problem isn't simply, that Izumi is not an alpha, but that he is also stripped of every useful and admirable trait, and his personality and agency are incredibly lacking. His only role is to be a tool in the show and he doesn't feel like a real character, and certainly doesn't feel like somebody who could be in such a relationship. Izumi's character shows a lot of tenacity by being optimistic to what could be considered a handicap or a disability. Lets look at it from a wider scope. For instance, lets take a character from a wide known movie like Forest Gump, we're taking Lieutenant Dan. After he lost his legs in Vietnam he became a lot more sorrowful and bitter towards his own existence, suicide was even on the table. It took literally years for him to just accept his disability and find ways to be happy. Now lets change the perspective to an also very famous anime character, Honda Tohru from fruits basket. Most fans loved Tohru because of her tenacity to hide the pain behind a gentle face filled with compliance despite the hardships of losing her mother and dealing with the 12 characters curse based on the zodiac. It truly is a gender reversal issue. fenrirr2 said: In well-written, and well-received romcoms or romantic stories both the Male and Female lead are far more developed, and better written, than Izumi here, so not, the problem isn't just the gender reversal here. You're making this sound like a rule of thumb, when it actually isn't. There have been well recieved rom-coms in the past and recent times where the leads have some noticeable unbalance on how they carry the show. For instance, in Horimiya, Miyamori had a lot more issues to deal with his past self and how he had a double life inside and oustide school, wich made him very aluring, and even though Horie was very well liked, she didn't have that big secret life in comparisson, she was just the reliable sister outside school time. |
May 3, 2022 1:40 PM
#39
@Kimurah You seem to be one of the more articulate supporters here. What do you think of the directing in the show? I'm starting to realize that the majority of problems that people have all come down to very poor directing. Whether it's the overuse of Izumi's bad luck gag, how the chapters are adapted, the added scenes or "filler", bad character writing, the humor not translating, cardboard side characters, or the dialogue being too simple/formal. I'm no expert on this subject, but the show is honestly a chore, to watch, it doesn't capture the feel/spirit of the manga at all. The pacing in general feels unbearably slow, scenes feel way too static, and all of this makes character interactions and dialogue feel awkward and unnatural, this hits Izumi the hardest. Comedy is subjective, but the same jokes that are effectively placed in the manga are just non-existent in the anime, the comedic timing is just all wrong, if I'm laughing at anything it's how unintentionally awful these scenes are. The only thing I genuinely enjoy here is the colorful animation/effect in certain scenes. I randomly watched the first episode of Clannad to compare, it just felt like a reasonable enough choice, and it was practically lightning quick in comparison, it was honestly jarring, it all felt so much more natural. The feel of the manga is really on the simple side, it often feels close to a "comic strip" kind of vibe, and most of these directing decisions just feel completely wrong for bringing the source material to life. The show seems to have a relaxed vibe to it, but without any of the substance that makes slower paced show worthwhile. Of course, you seem to be enjoying the show, and you're familiar with the source material, so you might not really agree with me at all. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
May 3, 2022 6:36 PM
#40
gintokisbicep said: how were people dickriding that doll one from last season but dislike this??? wtf Because the "doll one" is a better show than this in almost every way? Really not that hard to understand. |
May 4, 2022 10:26 AM
#41
gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: how were people dickriding that doll one from last season but dislike this??? wtf Because the "doll one" is a better show than this in almost every way? Really not that hard to understand. shikimori negs the entire dress up darling cast but ok She feels more like a Mary Sue than an actual person. Sure she's cool and I enjoy her character, but she doesn't feel realistic at all. Marin on the other hand felt very real. That's what separates the 2 imo. You're entitled to your opinion though and I respect it |
May 4, 2022 10:47 AM
#42
gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: how were people dickriding that doll one from last season but dislike this??? wtf Because the "doll one" is a better show than this in almost every way? Really not that hard to understand. shikimori negs the entire dress up darling cast but ok She feels more like a Mary Sue than an actual person. Sure she's cool and I enjoy her character, but she doesn't feel realistic at all. Marin on the other hand felt very real. That's what separates the 2 imo. You're entitled to your opinion though and I respect it how is marin any more realistic to shikimori?? she's a complete anime manic pixie dream girl. they're both waifu bait but at lest shikimori doesn't have to rely on ecchi scenes to create a more compelling female character. Because despite Marin's pretty looks and outgoing personality, the anime does not attempt to make her this perfect girl who has little to no flaws. Not saying that's the case with Shikimori btw, but just bear with me here. Marin was shown to be pretty useless when it comes to cosplay from episode one. She is so bad at it that even reading a book that explains everything in great details, she failed miserably. She's also very naive and oblivious to the most part. Definitely an airhead. She also had loads of insecurities that were delved into by the anime. Little things like these go a long way in making a character feel more realistic. Her and Gojo help each other grow as individuals. The fanservice is just basically the cherry on top. She would have been a popular character even without the fanservice imo, but obviously not to the extent she is now. Shikimori is another great character, but so far the anime hasn't really gone into her flaws much. She just seems good at everything so far. I trust the anime will eventually go into some of her weaknesses though so we'll see. |
May 4, 2022 1:53 PM
#43
gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: SkyhighCFC said: gintokisbicep said: how were people dickriding that doll one from last season but dislike this??? wtf Because the "doll one" is a better show than this in almost every way? Really not that hard to understand. shikimori negs the entire dress up darling cast but ok She feels more like a Mary Sue than an actual person. Sure she's cool and I enjoy her character, but she doesn't feel realistic at all. Marin on the other hand felt very real. That's what separates the 2 imo. You're entitled to your opinion though and I respect it how is marin any more realistic to shikimori?? she's a complete anime manic pixie dream girl. they're both waifu bait but at lest shikimori doesn't have to rely on ecchi scenes to create a more compelling female character. Because despite Marin's pretty looks and outgoing personality, the anime does not attempt to make her this perfect girl who has little to no flaws. Not saying that's the case with Shikimori btw, but just bear with me here. Marin was shown to be pretty useless when it comes to cosplay from episode one. She is so bad at it that even reading a book that explains everything in great details, she failed miserably. She's also very naive and oblivious to the most part. Definitely an airhead. She also had loads of insecurities that were delved into by the anime. Little things like these go a long way in making a character feel more realistic. Her and Gojo help each other grow as individuals. The fanservice is just basically the cherry on top. She would have been a popular character even without the fanservice imo, but obviously not to the extent she is now. Shikimori is another great character, but so far the anime hasn't really gone into her flaws much. She just seems good at everything so far. I trust the anime will eventually go into some of her weaknesses though so we'll see. ok i understand where you're coming from but as you said you can't compare as much without a lack of episodes and the anime opening does show that eventually a sad story will open. but didn't episode 4 already show her flaw that she's a competitive person. sure it was written in a more comedic way but i appreciate how they're slowly hinting and showing more of shikimori's character and negative traits without a whole backstory or dramatic flair. and i'm unsure about ur comment about her being a mary sue character when she's the opposite, she's always saving shizuma. the whole purpose of the show is how specifically badass and "not a cutie" shikimori is. it would be weird if they went right off the bat without focusing on that. same with dress up darling, everything came in because of the actual dress up part. not necessarily you but that's what i dont get why ppl dislike this show so much. its like they didn't read the synopsis that said how much of a badass shikimori is. that's the point of this slice of life show. Wouldn't say that her being very competitive is a flaw per se. It depends on if she goes overboard with it in the coming episodes, but I just see that as part of her "cool" gimmick. Also I said she "feels more like a Mary Sue than an actual person", not that she IS a Mary Sue. The anime has not really delved into her weaknesses too much as I said, but there ARE a few that were shown like her tendency to get jealous. Her saving Izumi wouldn't make her not a Mary Sue if she was one btw. A Mary Sue is a female character with pretty much no flaws or weaknesses But yea this show is just a SoL about a cute, yet "cool" girl so I can't really complain about the show highlighting mostly her positive traits lol |
May 12, 2022 12:13 PM
#44
May 13, 2022 5:26 AM
#45
yngboifresh said: if this gets a season 2 i’ll learn how to do a backflip😂 Get practicing, this one is mediocre enough to meet the, why the fuck is this getting a second season when [Insert great show here] isn't, criteria. |
Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
May 13, 2022 5:54 AM
#46
May 13, 2022 5:57 AM
#47
Well it will prob have but yea I hope people don't hype for it |
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