Rewriting Kirito as a character

ishoo-sama said:
i want every girl he meets to NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM

MR-GOD said:
Just give him some sense of duality in his personality, he’s got like one personality trait and that’s just being edgy. He needs to have certain struggles that allow him to progress throughout the story. Honestly Sao was a waste of an amazing concept, if someone with actual talent wrote it, it’d be so enjoyable.

HaylenGrey said:
OH I’d also like to hear him say at least once: “Sorry I have a girlfriend please respect that”

HaylenGrey said:
OH I’d also like to hear him say at least once: “Sorry I have a girlfriend please respect that”

Anayan_Kashyap said:
What i would like to change?

SAO PROGRESSIVE have it. He have got a fun personality with lots of development in there so I don't need to add anything, as I don't necessarily have to make him some best character. In the og series, he actually had pretty mediocre character writing but in SAOP he is actually pretty different.

Ej_Otaku_sama said:
I want them to remake the whole thing, but written by the One Piece author

MR-GOD said:
Just give him some sense of duality in his personality, he’s got like one personality trait and that’s just being edgy. He needs to have certain struggles that allow him to progress throughout the story. Honestly Sao was a waste of an amazing concept, if someone with actual talent wrote it, it’d be so enjoyable.

ishoo-sama said:
i want every girl he meets to NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM

Kirito_Spriggan said:


Well to be honest, Reki can change his mind anytime and make a different route for SAO-P instead and make a better storyline if properly supervised rather than sticking with the canon storyline. But that's just a what if but I think not a bad trade off

Kirito_Spriggan said:


Just thinking about it we'll full of easter eggs everywhere in the story.

Anayan_Kashyap said:

Ig you know Reki started writing SAOP even before the anime started in 2012. The og SAO, mainly Aincrad was written as a short story, he covered it in a single volume. The adaptation was actually pretty good that it streched a single volume to 15 eps. And obviously you know how mediocre the character development will be in such a situation.

And it's been a decade now I've read 5 Progressive volumes and his character seems to be developing really well along with Asuna. SAOP don't have plot holes like Kirito's sudden power ups, infact when any such incident happens, Reki has provided detailed explanation. And that's why I am saying his character development makes sense and actually developing a lot since the first volume.

Anayan_Kashyap said:
@Tharuth ik that bud

Kirito_Spriggan said:
If you're given a chance to rewrite Kirito as a character, what will you try to chance, what will you keep and what you want him to be?

I personally want to change
1. how he fights by winning by some sort of plot armor rather than strategies and pure skill.
2. how the need of more insights of the motivation, personal struggles and backstory he has that needs to be tackled so it could justify how he acts.
3. how the story overglorifies his existence


I want to keep
1.. His loner personality being relatable in many ways more than that goofy or energetic character who only spouts "I have to work hard to achieve my dreams".
2. His emotional flaws.

Let's be healthy in the discussion. No need to be toxic. We all have our opinions.

Ruthless_1 said:

I honestly feel like the flaws he has are oftentimes the result of the actual plot of the story itself, rather than just him as a character.

For instance, making him a more reserved and calculated character would greatly add more to benefit Kirito, but it wouldn’t change how they needed to make him have access to dev mode or be some child prodigy hacker at the age of like 15.

Tharuth said:


You said one volume over 15 episodes, and the adaptation was good… The latter being somewhat true, but suffers from lack of monologuing and exposition.

Tharuth said:


Mmm he used the GM terminal to covert Yui’s “memory” into a data item and then his local nervegear storage (ie. not hacking anything, but using what was in front of him); it’s bullshit but a 16 year old who can code would definitely be able to do it, albeit bordering the side of disbelief obviously, it’s more than plausible, at least imho.

Ruthless_1 said:

I don’t see that being plausible at all tbh. He’s not some graduate from MIT with an internship at Apple or Google. He’s just some punk kid who probably looked up some basic lessons on YouTube.

Using that knowledge at the age of 15-16, then proceeding to hack into the biggest and high tech game launch of the series’s universe, not to mention, besting the other hackers that might be playing the game since it’s a global release—No, just no.

Tharuth said:


That’s the thing though, he didn’t “breach” the game, he used the GM terminal that already had developer access. As for 16 year olds not being able to hack, you’re severely underestimating today’s youth if arguably thousands of kids can easily bypass the strictest lockdown systems for shits and giggles to cheat on tests and exams, or just anti-cheat systems for videogames.

Ruthless_1 said:

Using a “GM terminal” that is just simply there just cause, is terrible writing. There is no reason why it has dev mode possibility and why anyone can access it. Putting that aside though, Kirito just spontaneously thinking “Hey, maybe I can convert actual code into a memory chip in 5 seconds, under pressure, and with no knowledge of how the dev mode works,” is utter nonsense and is why I said that the plot itself usually hurts his character rather than his own thinking/characterization.

BrotherMeSoftly said:
What’s difficult is most Marty/Mary Sues are as they are because the world/setting caters to them too. Particularly in the world of SAO, Kirito was given the ability to dual wield swords out of every player in the game and we do not know very much about what many others could or could have had as their singular, unique perk ability. But, with this in mind, of some of the traits and characteristics about him that I’d change:

1.) His programming and overall skill at gaming.

Sure skills like programming and gaming can gradually increase over time with practice and learning but it’s such a feat, as it is boring, that our protagonist is so capable of picking up a game and mastering it and knowing the ins and outs as to progress as well as he does in SAO, Alfheim, and Gun Gail Online. I’m more so upset with this clear cut, telling over showing, matter of fact way to have Kirito so gifted in these fields from the get go rather than the concept itself. I’m sure this will be the source for most people’s distain for the character and those which are similar.

2.) Yui.

This sort of continues from the previous reason. Maybe this doesn’t count as it’s not a trait of his, but I see Yui as an extension of Kirito and is a way to just flip the table and say “fuck it” so he can both entertain the cute idea of him and Asuna being parents and to overwrite the worldly stakes so it doesn’t take away the impact from when he himself will inevitably do so at the end of the game. She’s an annoying character that didn’t need to stick around after or before their deletion in SAO.

3.) His swordsmanship (or lack there of).

I would say he can keep this, but he really doesn’t as far I can see. Assuming motion controls and VR continue to advance in the future, I cannot buy that those control types in gaming have becoming as intuitive as this shows like to paint it. Someone who can wield a kendo stick and master it would not be able to pick up any sword from within a video game (especially in a game that happens to have one fictional sword but specializes in guns) and be able to swing and slash about like some Jedi master. You also would have to consider lag, the in game battling mechanics, and any sort of physics engine that allows a set of games where all you do is lay down with a headset on without physically moving yourself to wield a sword. I don’t see the connection. You also don’t see him much outside of gaming wielding a kendo…

4.) His relationship(s).

It bothers me to no end how oblivious and inconsiderate he can be with having a harem of girls at his side. He’s a cute emo nerdy jock nice guy who helplessly finds himself sticking to so many cute and awkward gamer girls when he has Asuna. Asuna was pushed to the wayside for much of the show and their relationship has been displayed as a long wet fart after the mini section of them purchasing a home together by a gorgeous paradise away from civilization (which I’m surprised wasn’t overran with random player characters).

5.) The shit eating, smug ass attitude.

He is such a little fucking prick sometimes and is always trying to dunk on chill bro Klein in front of the hoes. He goes from gloom and doom, cloud over his head and switches to cool, awesome, and arrogant badass just like that. Says shit like “oh yeah I could have beat heathcliff easy if I was using my best sword. I also conveniently didn’t show off my dual wielding capabilities to him either… oh, and I wasn’t really trying haha.” And probably likes the idea that his big tiddie cousin, who he lives with, wants to mount him and doesn’t even give af to tell Asuna about it either. Dude likes knowing all this introverted, STEM, and TikTok-having alt p*ssy wants to be with him but can’t because Asuna is around him constantly.

Those are my main gripes…

As for things I thinks should stay regarding his character.

1.) Emo.

It’s easy to tag on it, and there’s already a dime a dozen other sad, moody protagonists, but I think this trait isn’t always a cliche or detriment to the writing and I thought what they were doing during the Christmas episode to be very interesting and brought upon heavier stakes. Instead of him being super OP to the point other players can’t damage him, he’s actually too sad to play at all and we see him struggling and fear even a wild boar that he doesn’t want to harm another player or creature. Maybe starts questioning if the animals and monsters in the world are as real as he is. Asking himself if life is real anymore or if he may have died sometime when he applied the helmet entering the game. Turning him into an existential dude who finds that life in this world is worth living thanks to the help and earned respect and love from Asuna would be way more interesting, relatable, and logical.

2.) Fishing.

I like that he’s bad at fishing and we should see more of it.

That’s all I got at the moment.

FilipPaul said:
If we criticize every character for unrealistic abilities, then there won’t be a single shounen left standing

katsucats said:
I'd want to see him with a bit of selfish motivation and eccentricity that makes him human as opposed to another boring ass self-insert with no personality, yet everyone falls in love with. He needs to have inner conflict, to deliberate things, to wrestle with different moral nuances, instead of just being someone who's come to whatever his understanding of justice and reality is by taking it for granted.

katsucats said:
Also, the shows needs to focus more on how he trains, how hard he works in between, or how he gained insight in how to game over his years of experience, etc. Because right now he just lazes around and doesn't do shit and still dominates fights just based on willpower and plot armor. And no, Kirito knowing some "programming" doesn't cut it -- it's literally irrelevant, and Kirito has never been shown to code squat.

katsucats said:
And finally, besides being the white knight and damsel in distress, there's literally no spark between Kirito and Asuna -- they're both boring personalities meant to generically fit as many otaku's imaginations as possible. We don't know why Kirito likes Asuna besides her having a pretty face and being there. There's no quirk or idiosyncrasy that he learns about her that's specific to her.

katsucats said:
Yeah, shounens suck, but the thread was about how we could make them better. Just because there are a lot of Gary Stus in anime doesn't invalidate the concept of a Gary Stu.

FilipPaul said:

Thank you for being constructive in your post, but I still disagree.

1. Gary Stu

I disagree that Kirito is a Gary Stu. If we criticize every character for unrealistic abilities, then there won’t be a single shounen left standing:

Shinji - one of a handful of kids who can pilot mechs

Gon - one in a billion talent

Light - can go toe to toe with (above) professional detectives

Now, what makes a Gary Stu is not being overpowered, but the ability to negate conflict, but we can see that this does not apply to Kirito. You mentioned an inner conflict he had with the death of his companions. He did not negate this conflict, it was resolved in a satisfactory manner.

(Forgive me, I’m on mobile so I might forget the order)

2. Kirito’s Harem

Having a harem in SAO is not a detriment. As a self-insert, it benefits greatly from this. Also, if harems aren’t your thing there’s a monogamous relationship between Kirito and Asuna that develops at a good pace.

3. Yui

Yui was used to illustrate how important one’s social life is in a video game, which is one of SAO’s main themes. She is necessary to the plot.

Your position probably could have been stronger if you were more specific, but your criticism was strong.

Abysmal_Saint76 said:
If you read novel he is perfect but in anime he is far from that but still he is good in anime as well. Also to people telling Kawahara is not a good writer, have you even read his work? I guess not.

BrotherMeSoftly said:


I appreciate the feedback! Me looking over my post again I could have been more specific but also less silly on some of my other points. I’d like to imagine my message got across clear on the latter point but anyhoo, fair points all around on your end.

I will say that I believe Kirito is a Gary Stu character for he is wish fulfillment in a power fantasy and free of any real negative traits. He is very OP in every game he touches, has women falling for him left and right, and doesn’t have any real weaknesses or crutches. That conflict he had at the beginning of the series with the death of a new guild he befriended is handled well enough, but that doesn’t make him any less of a Gary Stu. Heroes and protagonists challenge or negate conflict all of the time. We don’t see him gradually get better in SAO and instead we are just told it or jumps to the next episode and voilà he’s a stronger player. I recognize there are time gaps but that doesn’t make up for anything.

The shounen protagonist argument of criticizing unrealistic expectations should happen. Criticism is a good thing but not just because it’s unrealistic. It’s good that we can voice our issues with shows being how they are and to be different from themselves. I like a good wish fulfillment story every so often, but I didn’t like how SAO was handled, mostly with its pacing and, well, Kirito. You can have and show something that’s unrealistic but have it down in a way the audience can buy.

Goku being as powerful as he is isn’t personally my favorite thing and power creep and scaling really hurt him and the series in the long run if you ask me too, but even he had progressions and training arcs where we saw he face new challenges and even die (perhaps more than once? Idr tbh lol).

Gon being a one in a billion talent is vague for what you’re going for but he certainly wasn’t very strong considering the world he’s in. Something great about HxH is how the world is handled. The Gon who was able to catch that giant fish at the beginning of the series and the Gon who went gorilla on Pikou are not the same. There was plenty of development and hard work put into it. He definitely isn’t wish fulfillment or flawless.

Light is a flawed character. He’s extremely childish, makes mistakes due to his pride and arrogance, and we see him spiral into madness over the course of the series. Death Note plays a lot on circumstance, chance, and strategy (and perhaps fate) and yeah he’s ridiculously smart and good looking as examples of his traits but he’s not flawless. Him going toe to toe with professional detectives isn’t out of the question considering his upbringing and the position he kept himself from L being about to catch him, skirting away by an inch every single time. But I can understand the argument of him being a Gary Stu. If someone believes he is a Gary Stu, in this case I’d enjoy the character… but he’s not my favorite or anything anyway.

The harem aspect, in and of itself, isn’t a bad thing. I just really liked his romance with Asuna. It was why I checked out the show in the first place. Those episodes they shared together were the best ones and the harem felt unnecessary to me. They felt like they got in the way of moments and the relationship between Asuna and Kirito shouldn’t have taken a backseat for much of SAO2 either. Would have liked if we got more Asuna with Kirito is what I’m saying.

Yui is a character I believed was unecessary, at least to continue existing. She served her purpose but could have been done better to begin with imo. I think there are other ways to display the social aspect, like him being with Asuna or trying to get closer with certain characters like he was. Would have been nice to have more episodes of daily slice of life with people to forget all the madness. The moments we got were either cut too short or didn’t excel as far as they could have.

Always appreciative for any more thoughts regarding either position!im certainly not much of a fan for the series, but it’s always fun to discuss or even go back to rewatch some of it from time to time.

Kirito_Spriggan said:


As a big fan of the series, also who acknowledges its flaws and how it is compared objectively with other series and mediums, I also think that Kawahara sensei is not that as Godly as a writer. But, even if that's the case, the work still could be improved and eventually turn into objectively near if not be a full masterpiece.

Abysmal_Saint76 said:
Also he is a human not a god, of course there is gonna be hit and miss somewhere and it is with every author.

Abysmal_Saint76 said:
He doesn't have to improve damn thing for sake of haters who hasn't even read a single page of his book. People who enjoy his shows and book will like him, people who doesn't will don't which is with evey fiction.

Abysmal_Saint76 said:
Also SAO haters are mindless who always strawman their argument with complete misconception like how Kirito is OP, SAO is harem, incest, Kayaba doesn't explain anything, Asuna is damsel in distress blah blah when everything is already explained properly. All they have to do is pay attention then every will be elucidated.

Kirito_Spriggan said:
Can you tell me some of the flaws that series has and you have acknowledged? Also he is a human not a god, of course there is gonna be hit and miss somewhere and it is with every author. He doesn't have to improve damn thing for sake of haters who hasn't even read a single page of his book. People who enjoy his shows and book will like him, people who doesn't will don't which is with evey fiction. Also SAO haters are mindless who always strawman their argument with complete misconception like how Kirito is OP, SAO is harem, incest, Kayaba doesn't explain anything, Asuna is damsel in distress blah blah when everything is already explained properly. All they have to do is pay attention then every will be elucidated.