Do you like watching old animes? (like from 20th century)
| anon tries bating but anon forgets that without the old there would be nothing new. there's so much good anime from the previous decades that people ignore without realizing what they are missing out on. it's a shame also, the options you put in your poll are absurd, nothing i or many others would choose. you're welcome to have any opinion you want, but when you make a poll, bias isn't really the way to go ..unless it's bait :^) and for the love of god, animation =////////////////////////////////= artstyle or character designs |
"I came here to sniff Madoka panties and kick witch ass and I am all out 'doka panties" - Homora Akemi |
| Although i don't see many old animes i like them. I prefer modern art style but animation was much better pre-2000. In old days animes are smoother/clean and have more mature stories. |
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| no, even modern animation can be noticeably bad |
| I love old anime I still watch Macross and Uchuu Senkan Yamato often enough. If the story is good I would watch anime form any age. |
| I watch old anime even if it is junk. I like old anime.I prefer them over newer anime. I feel nostalgic for 240p. I really like watching anime on VHS. The ads are especially fun. Oh and I am sorry you guys. Rose of Versailles as well as most things animated by Osamu Dezaki look better than anything modern.  |
Energetic-NovaMay 15, 2017 4:04 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| "a bunch of low quality animation junks" D: Older animes Great Teacher Onizuka are almost always the best in my eyes. You know, the plot is more important than the visuals in my opinion. Now it's all about the annoying fanservice. |
thatPinkSpiderMay 15, 2017 4:12 PM
 "Please stop talking about math when I'm eating." |
thatPinkSpider said: "a bunch of low quality animation junks" D: Older animes Great Teacher Onizuka are almost always the best in my eyes. You know, the plot is more important than visuals in my opinion. Now it's all about the annoying fanservice. But even the visuals are better...  I guess if I whip the most expensive movie ever out of my butt because when was the last time you saw this many characters on the screen doing something completely different all looking that different cause no you haven't in modern anime:  And fuck if everyone doesn't copy this.  But even if you just want to look at TV series that are old and for the story...  Or not as old for the story with infamous downgrades in animation but one of the most infamous endings:  And then movies with cool visuals to redo the ending This is all I gotta do now.  |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| I totally get your point, and it's a valid one according to my thinking. I usually steer clear of both older movies as well as anime. You could argue like this: "Would you play Everquest instead of WoW?" Can you call DotA from WC3 a better game than either LoL, DotA2 or HoN? (depending on preference so we don't stir any hate) 1.6 vs CS:GO? My point being that most aged things lack in both the technological advancement department as well as their "revolutionizing concepts" and qualities having been reused or improved upon in MANY future versions. The general argument would be "they were good for their time", but if you're supposed to be arguing whether one can call them "competitive" currently - it's an argument that you can't really use. *Important* This only applies to a person who sees something for the first time - If you watched an old series way back in time, you probably have quite strong BIAS towards it. *Important* While I say that old = low quality, it's also noteworthy that some years provided very high quality animation, even though the color schemes and character designs differ very heavily from what we get currently. What you will see as an example is bullet holes appearing more clearly and detailed, random objects flying around being detailed and not CG animated. - Often more work put into details. Apart from that, it definitely doesn't apply to all aged animes, as I stated "Some years provided very high quality animation" - I could name 3 years: 95, 97 and 98 that provided us with Bebop, Berserk and GITS. Bebop is a futuristic anime to a point where we still could "see it" as the future (Still a very cool setting). GITS is a high budget quality animation with a good plot that also has a futuristic setting, which we also can relate to as "a future society". The only anime with reasonable quality that uses a similar setting is Psycho Pass. Berserk has an extremely good story, and a much darker atmosphere than most other animes with a similar setting. The story and atmosphere drives Berserk 1997 into being currently worth watching, even though it definitely looks and is outdated. There are other old animes that quite a bit of people would regard as "still great", a few examples would be: NGE, Gundam, Lain and Dragon Ball. Why wouldn't I list these shows as "Still great"? It's due to them being reiterated in a better version. In Lain we have a future setting - but since we live in the era that Lain represents - it becomes very.. stupid. It may have been revolutionary in an age where the internet was new and scary, as well as people just having been able to purchase low qual PCs just recently. Both NGE and Gundam have been reiteraded upon with better quality, better story and better ideas many times. the Mecha genre is quite similar to one another, meaning that quality really does matter. Dragon Ball... It's just the oldest shounen monster long series, still ongoing. If kids could choose between DB+DBZ vs something like.. let's just slap one of the Big Three in here (even though I dislike them quite a bit too), the choice of "what's best" would be pretty clear. It's an old concept, the episodes are way too diluted, the characters and sound effects/VAs are horrible and the animation is extremely sloppy except for some climax fighting moments, to save budget. So there you go, Old usually means worse in animation, and many of the shows have better representations. There are also a few shows that are still worth watching even for a person who is fairly new into anime. New doesn't ALWAYS mean better than old, especially sing a high percentage of animes currently being created are average quality generic shows that only exist for the sake of dragging a specific audience who are almost sure to watch them. Well, and everything boils down to opinion, that was my analysis and opinion. |
TyirielMay 15, 2017 5:19 PM
| @Tyiriel Your video games analogy really doesn't work, or proves the opposite of what you're trying to prove. Yes, there are very good reasons to play old games over new ones, even in the same license (Deus Ex), and some are actually better looking, because it's not all just about resolution and polygons. It also has nothing to do with nostalgia, and I wish Youtube comments let that meme die. Do you, by any chance, like any movie made before your birth? The Great Dictator? The two first Terminator? Nope, you can't, because the only reason to like those is obviously nostalgia. @Specimen021 A good car anime? Redline comes to mind. Most 80's OVA/movies have a chase at some point, but it often involves bikes, not cars. Try Akira too, it's the only movie with Redline to be entirely animated in 24 fps (correct me if I'm wrong, MAL). The bike scenes are satisfying <: |
DeathkoMay 15, 2017 5:46 PM
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| @Clebardman Hmm, it actually doesn't prove the opposite of my point as I am reading it - Just due to the fact that you didn't state any reasons as to what the very good reasons to play old games were, only that "some older games are better looking" and that the old Deus Ex games are better/higher quality? than the newer ones. In fact, I think that you actually based that on nostalgia, which is something I made abundantly clear to be something that my point did not cover in my previous post. Actually, if you read carefully it says that it's directed towards "First time watchers" which would be the equivalent of playing a game for the first time. At the moment, would you rather play.. Starcraft 1 or Starcraft 2 if you never touched them earlier? The choice is simple - the 2nd game is basically superior in every single department. *Important* These next 4 paragraphs ONLY cover art/animation, as it does not comment on any other part regarding older animes. The game analogy actually sells my point quite decently. If we draw 2 paralells here - Art (anime) = Art (game) and Animation = texture resolution in a game. - An anime with shit (LOW QUAL) art but great animation will often not be in a good spot, regardless of its age. An example would be if we adapted One Punch Man ONE instead of the official manga, with the same animation quality as the anime currently has. It would most likely turn as sour as a game with bad ingame art but extremely high quality texture resolution. Why won't I list any examples for games? I don't play shit games, so I don't know what to put here. Modern games often have both good art (quality) and good texture resolution, so we would likely fall into the territory of an indie game. And as others posted earlier in this thread, it's pretty much our problem. Older shows often have low quality art per individual character/item, since there was no good computer aided design tools to refine the images. The animation quality is often top notch in the older animes with higher budgets, meaning that we recieve pretty much what I said before: One Punch Man ONE (a bit better ofc) with the animation quality of the actual anime. Even cowboy Bebop, a show that I rate highly has this problem. The animation is very fluid and parts which today would have often been animated using CG was masterfully animated with very fluid 2d animation, also called Sakuga. However, the individual characters and items included in the show suffer from pretty much being drawings done by hand. Bebop is one of the better of the old animes (not movies) when it comes to art, which is actually why I took it as an example here. Apart from that, Bebop is also constricted to 4:3 aspect ratio, has a very dark color scheme even in the scenes that show a clear blue sky. - This is a common thing in older animes, save for movies with high budget. I might be overselling things, and it's not that I dislike "outdated" art, it can also be the opposite: Old animes often have very unique looking cast characters due to the quality of it often being at the level of drawings done by hand, for better or worse. And that wall of text was merely regarding Art+Animation. What can make or break an anime is definitely the plot, characters and setting. As opposed to art+animation, old animes don't suffer in this department. Only shows that display the "current age" or "a possible future" might potentially be put in a tough spot. Lain would be (MY) example for this. Personally I don't like watching scenes that display old technology like old white fat computers or equivalent technology, and I mean that in both Anime as well as non-animated movies. A great story can definitely make an anime worth watching regardless of how bad its art is. The problem only shows up when another show does something very similar, and does it much better. |
TyirielMay 15, 2017 7:32 PM
| @DateYutaka I understand what you mean with detail, cheaper shows often use blur effects to be able to save budget and present the main character(s) in the scene, but for some reason the studios often choose to make characters movements come at a low 4-5 FPS and have the background picture (not moving background characters) move at 24.8FPS, probably just to make it look like "proper" 2d animation and to save budget. I actually believe that the reason that we perceive a low amount of details is due to how the shows are animated rather than to how good the art quality is. |
| The story matters but the animation a little too. |
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| @Tyiriel None of the stuff you're mentionning is actually an argument against old anime. Characters are hand-drawn? The color palette is dark? 4:3 ratio? REALLY? "outdated" art yeah, that's exactly were you are completelly, totally, incredibly wrong. I dunno why I see so many people being proud of that stance around here, because it's really ridiculous. Obviously the latest Rihanna is the best music album ever because it's recent, right? I mean, with the progress of technology, the quality of our art can only increase, right? Let's burn every painting in our museums and replace them with digital paintings, right? TBH I'm used to "lol the colors are shiiiite" but I never tought I'd hear someone bring up the ratio to shit on oldies lol. You didn't prove anything, except that you want shiny colors and prefer the 16:9 ratio. Imma call this nostalgia since that's probably what you grew up with. How does it feel, when I tell you what you like is inferior and you only do so because of nostalgia, and not legit, thought-out preferences? (^:  Bang. |
DeathkoMay 16, 2017 2:51 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| @Clebardman The aspect ratio is actually a pretty good argument for the sake of a person watching a show today. Why you ask? If you're using a 16:9 monitor, which is pretty much the only aspect ratio readily available today - you will be using 75% of your pixels to display a 4:3 aspect ratio anime. In other words - using a 25% lower amount of possible pixels means that the 16:9 shows have an arbitrary advantage in quality due to being able to (POTENTIALLY) fit 33% more content per frame than an 4:3 aspect ratio show. Does that mean a 16:9 show is better than an 4:3 show? No, and I've never personally said that that's true - I have however said that they have a much higher potential of being better, meaning that the 4:3 aspect ratio indeed is a limitation that restricts the older animes. And just a little hint for you, Nostalgia is not only a feeling you get when thinking back, it provides you with opinions very much based on BIAS rather than what can be observed as proof. For example, you said that "One can like the dark color scheme and the 4:3 AR" Your Rihanna example is laughable - I can't remember anyone saying that a random new album is better than the best that the 70s/80s/90s could offer. In terms of quality, I ask you: Can the highest budget best animated series/movie of the 90s compare in animation or/and art quality to the highest budget and best animated series/movie of 20XX? There's tons of shit shows available, and most of them are newer ones, most of them also being quite similar due to their targeted audience. You see, picking on one of my standpoints is completely fine, I like having debates since opinions will always be flawed - the problem comes up when you try to make fun out of a post by going out of context, such as saying "art will only increase in quality" when the post you're replying to states clearly some of the possible reasons to causes why older shows are limited, such as technology being limited in both the software and hardware departments. The point I just tried to make now is obviously not that humankind have evolved to be able to draw pictures in higher quality and speed - the point I made was that due to the technology available after a picture has been painted, both refining the picture(s) and animating it in a higher quality than before becomes possible. The restrictions come with the budget on the individual series.  |
I've seen some great looking older anime so I don't know about that. I actually wish there were modern anime that look as good as Tenshi no Tamago |
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| animation is judged only objectively i think. so for any anime the animation judgement will be almost the same for all the watchers .so this question answer should be the same from almost al the people.so mine is u can not judge a bunch of series with the same judgement just because most of them has a bad animation .some of them has actually better animation than the anime this days |
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Tyiriel said: Your Rihanna example is laughable - I can't remember anyone saying that a random new album is better than the best that the 70s/80s/90s could offer. I've actually known someone like that. He won't listen to or watch anything old for the sole reason that it's old. I remember listening to some Bob Marley one day and he literally asked me why I was listening to old stuff. He asked me in a disgusted matter. |
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kikyo1hinamora said: animation is judged only objectively i think. so for any anime the animation judgement will be almost the same for all the watchers .so this question answer should be the same from almost al the people. good joke :/. Most anime fans are incapable of properly judging animation quality. They think they can and they think it's easy, but they're generally just spewing nonsense about artstyle preferences or digital editing or even fucking ratio/resolution while completely ignoring the actual animation. That's one of the ironies of the anime fandom. People think they care so much about animation because 'it's a visual medium' but in reality almost nobdy is even capable of distinguising good from average and bad animation in my experience. Maybe within one time period they can figure out that Inferno Cop is worse animated than Mob Psycho 100 but change the artstyle, animation style or decade and most people will talk bullshit just to rationalize their preferences (usually for modern stuff by A-1 Pictures and ufotable) instead of actually looking at animation objectively. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I'm not sure what this argument is supposed to be. A couple old anime in Cowboy Bebop and Trigun offer some spectacular animation quality, especially for the time. Even in series where the quality may be a bit rough (say with Berserk ('97)), it's wrong to say just because it's old and just because it doesn't look as good as some series you'd watch today that they're "low quality" or "junk". An anime is more than its visuals, much like a video game is more than its graphics. If you focus in too heavily on the animation, you might find yourself missing out on many fantastic stories as a result. Your loss, I suppose. |
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| Who cares about animation quality if the story and characters are great. The show could look like a baked potato with shit smeared all over it, but if it tells a compelling story with great characters it really shouldn't matter at all. It's like refusing to play older video games because "the graphics are bad". Trying to get my friends who are big Fallout 3 fans to try out Fallout 1 and 2 was an impossible task because according to them "it doesn't look as good", and no amount of me convicing them that the story and characters are vastly superior to Fallout 3 was enough. By limiting yourself like that, you miss out a lot of great games from the past like the Baldur's Gate franchise, Planescape Torment, FFVII, Deus Ex and a bunch of other games that graphically, or gameplay-wise, didn't really stand the test of time but still manage to deliver an amazing story and character experience. |
Candescence said: Who cares about animation quality if the story and characters are great. The show could look like a baked potato with shit smeared all over it, but if it tells a compelling story with great characters it really shouldn't matter at all. It's like refusing to play older video games because "the graphics are bad". Trying to get my friends who are big Fallout 3 fans to try out Fallout 1 and 2 was an impossible task because according to them "it doesn't look as good", and no amount of me convicing them that the story and characters are vastly superior to Fallout 3 was enough. By limiting yourself like that, you miss out a lot of great games from the past like the Baldur's Gate franchise, Planescape Torment, FFVII, Deus Ex and a bunch of other games that graphically, or gameplay-wise, didn't really stand the test of time but still manage to deliver an amazing story and character experience. I agree. There are games that are unmatched and lack the graphics only therefore are considered "not that good". The same with anime. I think Akira is one of the best animes ever created. A lot of older animes do not appeal to people because of the screen ratio or visual style or animation but if this is what some people want then ok go and watch only new stuff but if you are looking for interesting story or characters then there is no better choice than classics. Btw, imagine what will you (fans of the new) be thinking when shows you consider new and all great become old. What would you write in the thread like this? There are great new productions and there are shit old productions so it is not like old anime is always better. |
| Lol the Op is just trying to bull bait an angry response. |
| First learn to draw. You cant compare the past with the future. |
Pullman said: kikyo1hinamora said: animation is judged only objectively i think. so for any anime the animation judgement will be almost the same for all the watchers .so this question answer should be the same from almost al the people. good joke :/. Most anime fans are incapable of properly judging animation quality. They think they can and they think it's easy, but they're generally just spewing nonsense about artstyle preferences or digital editing or even fucking ratio/resolution while completely ignoring the actual animation. That's one of the ironies of the anime fandom. (^: I just gave up on him. Some people are putting way too much effort into being wrong for the sake of winning imaginary e-penis competitions, it baffles me. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
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