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AnnoKano said: I would say the UK has the best poets. I'm obviously biased. I think most people would be biased towards their own country, because most of the playwrights, poets, writers and just literature in general in a specific country is what they will teach you in school and it's what people will refer to. For example; In Norwegian schools there is a lot more about Henrik Ibsen than there is William Shakespeare, while in English schools it's probably the opposite. Even though they are both considered the two best playwrights in history and among the best writers/poets to ever live, you'd figure there would be an equal distribution of the curriculum covering these people, yet that is not the case. So everyone is more familiar with poets/writers from their own country and that obviously leads to bias, as already proven by this thread. |
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Olveparty said: So everyone is more familiar with poets/writers from their own country and that obviously leads to bias, as already proven by this thread. I'm neither Arabian nor Persian. And I came across Persian poetry in June this year. |
[i]"Yet each man kills the thing he loves, [/i]By each let this be heard, Some do it with a bitter look, Some with a flattering word, The coward does it with a kiss, The brave man with a sword!'' ~Oscar |
| Probably the ones that have been around the most. China / Europe. |
| Tough choice, but for me it is probably China even though I'm not Chinese nor lives there. There are a certain romance in their poetry, music, and arts. I guess having a culture build upon a pictographic language system tends to condensed meanings into objects and metaphor, making the use of a certain themes to have a multiple meanings. It is quite subtle and symbolic. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
galimx said: Italy. Opera, classical music, a lot of poets, males are way more into romance stuff there... + 1 OT: Italy, no doubt about this, just think about Dante, Petrarca or Boccaccio. |
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Olveparty said: While I can't deny that there's been a bit of patriotic Bias due to the Country and/or Culture I grew up with, I'm fairly sure that German Poetry would still rank very highly, because it's very well known. I think most people would be biased towards their own country, because most of the playwrights, poets, writers and just literature in general in a specific country is what they will teach you in school and it's what people will refer to. Yes, William Shakespeare might be the best known Poet of the whole World, but that's mostly because pretty much everyone (with Access to the Internet) has or had English Lessons in School. On the other Hand, you don't have to have had any German Classes to have heard about either Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Friedrich Schiller, Friedrich Nietzsche, Heinrich Kleist, Erich Kästner or Karl May. Considering that German Poets are well-known way over the German-speaking Area in Europe, you can say that German Poetry has a very high Standing, regardless of whether you are from that Culture or not. DeathNyx said: I've only heard about Dante and his "Divina Commedia", though.OT: Italy, no doubt about this, just think about Dante, Petrarca or Boccaccio. But that's mostly because of the cultural Appreciation; I mean, Goethe himself was in Italy. Speaking of which: "Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn?" ("Do you know the Country, where the Lemon Trees bloom?") While I'm at it: geniobastardo said: What about Hafez by whom the West-Eastern Divan was inspired?Farid ud din Attar Jalal ud din Rumi Shams Tabrizi Omar Khayyam Nur Jahan |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 5:56 AM
| du må ikke tåle så inderlig vel den urett som ikke rammer deg selv norway wins because of this |
Noboru said: DeathNyx said: I've only heard about Dante and his "Divina Commedia", though.OT: Italy, no doubt about this, just think about Dante, Petrarca or Boccaccio. But that's mostly because of the cultural Appreciation; I mean, Goethe himself was in Italy. Speaking of which: "Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn?" ("Do you know the Country, where the Lemon Trees bloom?") Dante also influenced many other poets and writers like Shakespeare but he's not the only great poet we have. I can mention Manzoni, Carducci, Tasso and Foscolo. |
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| "Er würgte eine Klapperschlang' bis ihre Klapper schlapper klang" (slight Tongue Twister in an Internal Rhyme with Spoonerism) "Ich seh' dich bleich erglühen, du wirst sogleich erblühen." (Double Rhyme) "Den Straßenfeger mit Geselle plagt die Szenerie jedoch ein Neger mit Gazelle zagt im Regen nie" (Tripple Rhyme; Neger in the Sense of "Negro", whereas it was considered to be more neutral. The last Line can even be read backwards and still be pronounced the same except the very first word "jedoch") edit: DeathNyx said: I'm aware that there are multiple other Poets. I mean, there's a whole Wiki Category for Italian Poets as well.Dante also influenced many other poets and writers like Shakespeare but he's not the only great poet we have. I can mention Manzoni, Carducci, Tasso and Foscolo. It's just that only Dante as a National Poet seems to be overall well-known across the (Western) World. 2nd edit: Hmm, I see that Manzoni seems to have had a similar Importance for the Italian Language as Luther with his Bible Translation for the German one. |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 7:36 AM
Noboru said: DeathNyx said: I'm aware that there are multiple other Poets. I mean, there's a whole Wiki Category for Italian Poets as well.Dante also influenced many other poets and writers like Shakespeare but he's not the only great poet we have. I can mention Manzoni, Carducci, Tasso and Foscolo. It's just that only Dante as a National Poet seems to be overall well-known across the (Western) World. I know, but foreign people tend to remember only Dante when talking about italian poets and i find this thing sad because we have many others. |
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DeathNyx said: At least they remember one. There are plenty of other Countries in Europe or other Continents, for which many People can't even name the National Poet.I know, but foreign people tend to remember only Dante when talking about italian poets and i find this thing sad because we have many others. What's your favorite Italian Poem btw? |
Noboru said: DeathNyx said: At least they remember one. There are plenty of other Countries in Europe or other Continents, for which many People can't even name the National Poet.I know, but foreign people tend to remember only Dante when talking about italian poets and i find this thing sad because we have many others. What's your favorite Italian Poem btw? Fav poets, probably Manzoni and Ludovico Ariosto. I've studied Manzoni's The Betrothed many times at school. Fav Poems? mmm Orlando Innamorato and Canzoniere |
DeathNyxOct 17, 2015 7:51 AM
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DeathNyx said: Those are Poets not Poems. And "The Betrothed" seems to be a Novel without the Use of any Lyric.Noboru said: What's your favorite Italian Poem btw? Fav poets, probably Manzoni and Ludovico Ariosto. I've studied Manzoni's The Betrothed many times at school. Fav Poems? mmm Orlando Innamorato and Canzoniere So what about Orlando furioso? Is it a similar wide-read and/or known, lyrical Novel like Goethe's Faust? edit: nevermind, I've seen the Poems you've mentioned. Didn't pay Attention that the Text changed when quoting. |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 8:07 AM
Noboru said: DeathNyx said: Those are Poets not Poems. And "The Betrothed" seems to be a Novel without the Use of any Lyric.Fav poets, probably Manzoni and Ludovico Ariosto. I've studied Manzoni's The Betrothed many times at school. Fav Poems? mmm Orlando Innamorato and Canzoniere So what about Orlando furioso? Is it a similar wide-read and/or known, lyrical Novel like Goethe's Faust? Indeed i misunderstood, i've edited later. Outside Italy? I can't tell, probably, depend which school you choose, in Italy is widely studied for sure. For example i've never read Faust, i think depends which studies you decide to do. |
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DeathNyx said: It's okay, I've seen it now and so far, Canzionere seems like a pretty well-thought Poem in which there are multiple Rhymes inside and outside a Stanza. Indeed i misunderstood, i've edited later. Outside Italy? I can't tell, probably, depend which school you choose, in Italy is widely studied for sure. For example i've never read Faust, i think depends which studies you decide to do. Okay, but you had at least heard of Faust, right? edit: fixed URL. Damn Percent Encoding. |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 8:19 AM
Noboru said: DeathNyx said: It's okay, I've seen it now and so far, CanzionereIndeed i misunderstood, i've edited later. Outside Italy? I can't tell, probably, depend which school you choose, in Italy is widely studied for sure. For example i've never read Faust, i think depends which studies you decide to do. (https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Canzoniere_%28Rerum_vulgarium_fragmenta%29/Voi_ch'ascoltate_in_rime_sparse_il_suono) seems like a pretty well-thought Poem in which there are multiple Rhymes inside and outside a Stanza. Okay, but you had at least heard of Faust, right? Mentioned yes but never read. Is it your favourite? |
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DeathNyx said: No, it's too long to be my Favorite. I've already forgotten most of it btw.Mentioned yes but never read. Is it your favourite? Personally, I like - "Die Lorelei" by Heinrich Heine (Ilya from "Fate/Stay night" Singing Version) "Ode an die Freude" by Friedrich Schiller (Leipzig Station Chorus Version, Version sung by Japanese, Text) And "Es ist alles eitel" by Andreas Gryphius Honorable Mention: Walther von der Vogelweide with his medieval Poems like "Palästinalied": edit: there are also the Merseburg Incantations in Old High German. Musical Interpretation of the 2nd one by In Extremo: |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 9:09 AM
| I personally think that agglutinative languages are at an advantage. Those languages can put different indicators together ("with", "in", "inside" etc.) with the word, which makes poem writing a lot easier. If you want the last word of the second line to rhyme with the first line, you just have to add a different suffix at the end. Therefore, I think Hungary, Japan (agglutinative) and Italy are the most poetic countries. Just because one country has more famous poets doesn't mean the value is higher. Usually the most famous poets come from countries that hold a great importance in politics/history (UK, France, Germany, etc.). The UK has the most famous poets yet I find their poetry to be godawful. I don't find the English language to be poetic and melodic at all. That is just a personal opinion, of course. |
Szefi said: That is a very fair enough Point. But a Poem doesn't have to rhyme and you can even easily create a Rhyme by using a different Prefix in a non-agglutinative Language like "beware - aware", "defect-perfect-prefect", etc.I personally think that agglutinative languages are at an advantage. Those languages can put different indicators together ("with", "in", "inside" etc.) with the word, which makes poem writing a lot easier. If you want the last word of the second line to rhyme with the first line, you just have to add a different suffix at the end. Therefore, I think Hungary, Japan (agglutinative) and Italy are the most poetic countries. Just because one country has more famous poets doesn't mean the value is higher. Usually the most famous poets come from countries that hold a great importance in politics/history (UK, France, Germany, etc.). The UK has the most famous poets yet I find their poetry to be godawful. I don't find the English language to be poetic and melodic at all. That is just a personal opinion, of course. There are other forms than just adding Agglutination to make for playful Wordplays that play on Words: Wordplay are easier in German than in English, because it's a more picturesque Language. Let's take "verrückt" ("crazy") which is "ver-" = "dis-" + "rückt" = "placed" ("displaced"), but in a figurative Meaning. Or "translate" = "übersetzen" = "place over" or "set over". a small Attempt at showing the Appeal of it: "Um zu übersetzen, musst du zum Übersetzen über das Übersetzen über setzen." IPA: (Key) [ʊm ʦuː ˈyːbɐˈzɛʦn̩ mʊst duː tsʊmˈyːbɐ ˈzɛʦn̩ ˈyːbɐ das ˈyːbɐ ˈzɛʦn̩ ˈyːbɐ ˈzɛʦn̩] "to translate you have to, for the translating, set over the set-over of the translation" version 2: set-over = translate; Set-over = Translating "to set-over you have to for the Set-over over the Set Over set over"[/spoiler] The Problem with other Languages is, that other People just can't read them, because it has either a different Alphabet or too few People are speaking the Language so that there are hardly Translations and phonetic Transcriptions available. For my little Poem above, I just had to edit a few Times through looked-up Words from Wiktionary. So far, I haven't seen any Language that gave me the Impression that I absolutely have to learn it because of its Beauty. I do am of the Opinion that German has in both Onomatopoeia as well as in Flexibility and Creativity an Advantage over many other Languages, but I'm open to let myself convince that there are other Languages in which it works as greatly or possibly even more greatly. However, the Main Problem is that no one seems to be willing to just pick or create a small Poem and to transcribe it into a Form that everyone could read and relate to or that it's not as easily possible, because the International Phonetic Alphabet is just too difficult to use. By myself, I wouldn't have been able to transcribe German or even English, whose Sound Scheme I had to learn to read. |
NoboruOct 17, 2015 3:15 PM
| ^ this guy gets it "Why, when God's world is so big, did you fall asleep in a prison, of all places?" -Rumi |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
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