WAHa_06x36 said: A lot of these anime relations, and some of the manga ones, are pretty questionable. Basically, "seinen" and "josei" aren't genres or styles. They are demographics. And they don't really apply to anime in the first place, only manga. Of course, anime based on manga can be included under the designations, but basically "seinen" and "josei" refer to the target audiences of manga magazines. So you've got a couple different kinds of questionable entires: First the obvious ones, which aren't published in seinen or josei mags at all but other kinds, like shounen mags or others: Akagi, Aria, Death Note, and probably a few others. Some are published in magazines that are sort of open to discussion, like Dengeki Daioh (Azumanga Daioh, Gunslinger Girl, Yotsuba&), those could go either way. Anime original works are tricky, too. They can't really be classified by manga terms like "seinen" and "josei" in the first place. Some might have manga adaptations that run in seinen magazines (or not), but that's still a pretty questionable way to identify something. Examples are Ayakashi - Japanese Classic Horror, Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Ergo Proxy, Gankutsuou, Haibane Renmei and many more. Then, anime based on games. These are like the previous group. Clannad, Kanon, &c. Of course, this club isn't really about manga demographics in the first place. It's just that the name is unfortunately picked. There isn't really a good term for the kinds of shows this club is really about, either. It's a shame, because such a term would be useful. However, "seinen" and "josei" don't fit the bill. Hmm. To be honest, I'm not really sure what this club should specifically be about. I only had a rough idea that there should be a club that's dedicated to series (i.e. both anime and manga) that appeal to older (and hopefully more mature) audiences. If we were to go by the demographics alone, we might as well simply import the entire list of works labeled as "seinen" and "josei" from Wikipedia and other databases. Perhaps seinen/josei anime and manga may be divided into two categories. 1) Titles of the first category usually contain images, themes, and language which are not suitable for younger audiences. In most cases, these are the works that contain sexual themes and large amounts of violence, generally meant to satisfy hormonal desires. 2) On the other hand, those that belong to the second category usually target to older viewers and readers since their contents are appealing and/or understandable only to adults. Basically, those in the first category are considered as seinen/josei due to the excluded audience while those in the second category are considered as seinen/josei due to the target audience. Of course, many titles also fit both descriptions so the best representation of this classification would be a Venn diagram. That was my suggestion back then but I'm not sure if everybody agrees with that. An alternative would be to due include titles "based on their artistic and literary merits" instead of the the magazine in which they were published or the creators' intended target audience but that would probably be a messy process since not all people have the same standards and preferences regarding content and style/execution (ex. Torisunanohokori regarding Haruhi Suzumiya). As for the club name, if anybody could think of anything that seems more appropriate, feel free to give suggestions. |
YuunagiFeb 17, 2009 3:23 PM
| Notice: If I use anime as an example, it is possible to include manga, VNs and other work from the JP culture. I don't think we need to make things this complicated. This club should be for people who think differently of anime, those who view anime as art (musical, animation, drawing style, writting, directing) rather than something entertaining. So I'd say that this club should be for people of open minds to talk and discuss anime that is aimed at the mind, not the body (and by body, I mean adrenalin-inducing works). Although what Yuunagi said is true about standards and preferences, there is a way to avoid this problem. You see, we might share different opinions about art but I definitely think that we share the same opinion about stuff that is not art. I mean, don't we all agree that stuff like Naruto or Bleach are bad? I think everyone should understand my point now. And as for a name, I'd say just using "Seinin" would be good, it'll indicate that only (hopefully) mature people residence in here. And finally, you forgot to add AIR and ONE kagayaku kisetsu e. Both were great eroge created by the same team. But you should already know that ^^; |
| Interesting point there. Anime/manga as art, as opposed to being merely forms of entertainment... Much better than being confined to specific demographics, eh? I guess that should be our implicit common interest but if ever I were to say that outright in the club description, some people might then argue left and right about which titles would count as "true art" and other aspects besides the story itself (music, visuals, direction) would have to be considered as well. On the other hand, that'd be a good excuse to add several shounen/shoujo titles such as The Vision of Escaflowne... I wonder what other members have to say about this? |
YuunagiMar 25, 2008 7:56 AM
| Well, I simply say that we can do a vote. If something can be really considered as "Art" it will get about 60-70% of the votes. And that voting should be irrelevant of the person's rating to an anime. For example, let's say you hate chocolate, can you say that it doesn't taste sweet? |
| "art" would be a much too broad topic. Manga or anime in general could be considered an art, regardless of the topic. Classification is a bitch. There always seems to be exceptions, especially in things we create. I have attempted to organize my downloaded manga, but I have failed miserably. I ended up making a folder called "Shade of Grey" What the hell does that mean? I resign myself to that folder quite often. The demographics are difficult in themselves. Often, labels are placed that authors did not initially intend. There are also things like Sesame Street. Clearly those are intended for younger children and it is advertised as so, but there are bits and pieces placed in there so the parents of the children are also entertained. Should we be straightforward about it or should we just add a hell of a lot of manga and anime? I have my questions on maturity in general. What do we deem to be mature? In literal terms it refers to a thing that is fully developed. Clearly in that way, I am not. I am just finishing my sophomore year in high school. I still have some hormones to sort out and I will probably continue to grow in stature. It seems to me that our idea of mental maturity is accepting things as they are. To be able to live and decide things by yourself. Just because I don't expect society to cater to my every whim does that mean I am mature? Perhaps it just means I am cynical, or is that what maturity is? |
XD3r3K-chanX1996Jun 1, 2008 5:34 PM
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| The post is several months old, but I agree the group seems to have gone out-of-control... I think many of the members need to realize that there is a tremendous difference between shows with strong themes that appeal to older and mature audiences (as it seems the club was created for) and shows that a mature person may enjoy. And, of course, there are those who really don't understand what "seinen" and "josei" mean and how, as WAHa pointed out, the club doesn't technically fit that (though I personally use the words the way I think you meant them). Ecchi, for example, usually ends up seinen-classified, but could not, in honesty, be considered "mature." If the club were to be named without the words "seinen" and "josei," it would probably have to "anime that appeals to mature persons." However, that's a pretty awful name. I like the art idea, but I agree that many of the club members probably couldn't understand the intention. Maybe that could spawn another club? I'd join it, at any rate. (Yes, I do understand how presumptuous it may seem of me to post something like this a mere hour after joining) |
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| well, if somebody asks me what is mature anime, i would answer that its that kind of anime, which younger viewer wouldnt comprehend completely or correctly. for example if the plot,dialogues are easily understandable and/or anime doesnt contain any philosophical/deep thoughts and/or chronological order of episodes/plot isnt messy, there is no reason to tag that anime as true mature anime. i think u explained it good, the "second category" of seinen/josei should be the subject of interest of this club. |
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