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MetallumOperaturFeb 20, 2017 4:40 PM
| Technical Discussion may start here, and I'll throw in something from a new entree which I might not be the best person to help. Thats why I want to ask you all... Ok, the participant says he has knowledge about survival and combat, being able to hit pressure points and joints, .. bla. Now in his first chapter he faces a werewolf which he is almost able to evade and throws her off. at the next attack, he hold her in a lock and dislocates her shoulder with a punch. in the end he falls and she jumps and hits his feet with her face and gets unconcious. So, I wanna ask... what you think? what do you think about the companion chart (my freewebs source) and its ability to compare. or is it not representative at all and we should think about something else? |
| I think that for the most part, there are very few MGs that are weak enough to be beaten by a human regardless of combat prowess or knowledge of self defense and martial arts. I especially doubt a werewolf being one of those MGs without it involving gorilla tactics and the element of surprise. For this case, I'm calling BS, especially considering that the MG's stats are based (before character enhancement) above that of human stats. I know that the stat for human is considered the "average" but I've more or less treated it as the max that any of our characters would ever achieve. Even if the person has knowledge of pressure points and joints, etc., I don't see that working out the way he describes it. |
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| Especially against a motherfuckin' werewolf, I'll have to disagree with that power level. Even if the guy has spent his entire life training in the mountains or something which most modern people don't do, the opponent has super-human speed and strength. You know the kind of super-human which a human can't achieve. maybe if it was a hand-to-hand combat against an elf it would be more plausible. |
Subenu said: 1. I won't claim to know much about martial arts, but I find the idea of dislocating a shoulder by striking it highly unlikely unless the person is eg. a muscular, jewish soldier and an expert in krav maga, striking for all he's worth. Chuck Norris.Now in his first chapter he faces a werewolf which he is almost able to evade and throws her off. at the next attack, he hold her in a lock and dislocates her shoulder with a punch. in the end he falls and she jumps and hits his feet with her face and gets unconcious. So, I wanna ask... what you think? what do you think about the companion chart (my freewebs source) and its ability to compare. or is it not representative at all and we should think about something else? 2. As you told me, the problem with the freewebs table is that it's not representative (therefore they can't be relied on, imo). I would assume that STR4 is twice as strong as STR2, but you told me this is not the case. How then do we get a good idea of what is what from those tables? The 10 stats could just as well be godlike or demigod :P Still, from what you told me I'd infer that not even "just" a werewolf is an MG to take lightly (it's stated somewhere that even the "worst" MGs are superior to humans if I don't remember incorrectly) and not an opponent you'd take out easily unless you had buckets of luck (or she was exceptionally arrogant/overconfident). Another problem is that the tables show the average individual of each race, but what is average, and how do we gauge the differences between a particularly intelligent, strong or agile human vs a monster girl? In my opinion for example, a manticore would always beat a human, unless that human had years of fighting experience and full plate armour, and even then it would be a close match. |
chimechuJun 26, 2014 7:47 AM
| Chuck Norris doesn't go to the MG island, the MG island goes to Chuck Norris I think that if you were to just base a human against an MG on just stats alone, you would treat it like black jack. Where as long as the MG stats are higher, she wins, and even if they are the same, she wins. It is only when the stat is actually LOWER than the human's stat is she weaker (in those terms) but more often than not, she'll have other traits that still make it extremely difficult (if not impossible) for the human to beat her. |
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| Frankly he chose the wrong girl to go all Yudahito on. |
Subenu said: Ok, the participant says he has knowledge about survival and combat, being able to hit pressure points and joints, .. bla. Now in his first chapter he faces a werewolf which he is almost able to evade and throws her off. at the next attack, he hold her in a lock and dislocates her shoulder with a punch. in the end he falls and she jumps and hits his feet with her face and gets unconcious. It's OK. Yuda did all of this. He beaten Orc in the fist fight and killed 12 lizardmen alone (!!!) in superior swordmanship display, come with superior fighting skills and survival training and it was perfectly fine until I started bitching about it. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| @Beast The lizardmen part, he wasn't alone and there were complaints from both me and mdude and as far as I'm concerned that event never took place. -.- |
| Once a story has begun you pretty much have to bitch about it for it to pick up, beast. The only ones who actually check the stories and can tell if they're getting out of hand are the readers, and the admins aren't always among them. |
beast_regards said: Subenu said: Ok, the participant says he has knowledge about survival and combat, being able to hit pressure points and joints, .. bla. Now in his first chapter he faces a werewolf which he is almost able to evade and throws her off. at the next attack, he hold her in a lock and dislocates her shoulder with a punch. in the end he falls and she jumps and hits his feet with her face and gets unconcious. It's OK. Yuda did all of this. He beaten Orc in the fist fight and killed 12 lizardmen alone (!!!) in superior swordmanship display, come with superior fighting skills and survival training and it was perfectly fine until I started bitching about it. Thats why I always said, that everyone should come up and talk to me, if there is something. yknow, STASI and so on. xD no seriously, I can'T see verything and of course I'm not happy how it turned out in that regard. |
| @Chim Btw this is something that I thought for awhile: it kinda sucks that there isn't any figure of authority that can keep check of the stories. Of course being able to read all of them is pretty much out of the question but at some point one can start doing whatever they want, technically. |
KamikadzeTM said: @Chim Btw this is something that I thought for awhile: it kinda sucks that there isn't any figure of authority that can keep check of the stories. Of course being able to read all of them is pretty much out of the question but at some point one can start doing whatever they want, technically. Thats also one reason why I brought the Officers for the lords into the game so I have the authority split up and everyone should keep their part in check, but the GM-Sickness has spread again |
| @Su The problem is, not everyone wants to bitch, frankly. Even if they see something, I can bet that most people will think, "Not my problem, if GM doesn't say anything then it's fine". I followed(and to some extend still follow) that mindset for a pretty long time. It's not easy being the evil guy but someone gotta do it, it's hard to expect that "public conscience" thing. |
| yeah, I know. I know. but its also not easy to keep control over everything like that. ^^ And, to my shame, I have also neglected my duties to a dangerous degree. Still try to keep my face here and do at least some stuff :-/ |
| @Su/Kami There would need to be officers who actively performed their tasks, and they would have to be willing to supervise the stories taking place within their domain. I really don't see Su, Liph and me pulling any straw when it comes to this atm, because of the sheer amount of work and time involved apart from everything else we're doing. |
| I think that everything depends on the writer himself. If he screws up the readers will notice and complain, so it's his duty to have them enjoying the story as much as possible. Could that be about over powered MC, or even only about them not being theirselves in the stories anymore. (Thing that I've seen MANY times, and that I think many people keep forgetting about.) Or at least that's what I think, because I don't write only for myself, but also because I want my friends to have fun reading it. à_à |
 "You keep changing the shape of your eyes. How does that even work?" -AbhLeaderKrelian |
| @Su Chim partially stole what I wanted to say. The thing I'm thinking about is this: Each Lord must be represented by an ACTIVE member. If the member has trouble/goes inactive, someone takes their place. The said active member MUST read all the stories happening mainly in their regions at the very least. If there's only like 1-2 stories that are about their region then they should just go read some of the other regions' ones to ease the burden on the other officers. Frankly, a task that requires responsibility. And naturally, if they spot anything suspicious, they MUST bring it up for discussion/tell Su, etc. It sounds tough but that's why an Officer title shouldn't be just for show. |
| Hear hear. |
| Back to the topic, it technically shouldn't be a problem that there are some unrealistic points inside the stories as we all have them (including those best of us)... ... but in general we should limit ultimate displays of badassness for our MC to minimum. Or at least be SUBTLE about it (Yuda is far too open about him being strongest man ever alive, given example does exactly the same thing) |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
beast_regards said: Back to the topic, it technically shouldn't be a problem that there are some unrealistic points inside the stories as we all have them (including those best of us)... ... but in general we should limit ultimate displays of badassness for our MC to minimum. Or at least be SUBTLE about it (Yuda is far too open about him being strongest man ever alive, given example does exactly the same thing) yes, i think the same. |
| Lol. Mdude used to say, you can have up to two moments of ultimate badassery for your MC in your story. xD |
| of course it depends also on the length of the story :D |
| @Su Well, you can have moments of minor badassery xD |
| I agree. Two seems fairly enough since you're supposed to be vastly inferior to MGs and too many just makes a mary sue/gary stu :P |
| Plus even mdude won 1 to 1 duel and survived a battle in the world where MG are basically like Reavers from Firefly. He still managed to do it in more subtle way and didn't went Gary Stu way straight away, that's the difference. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| @Beast Mdude said himself that the exact moment you mentioned was his "ultimate baddasary" usage. And I have to say, he really did a good job doing things in a way that didn't make him look OP. |
| So to sum it up, what is everyone's opinion on THIS particular case since Su was asking what we thought. |
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chimechu said: I am not against the guy winning, but there is no way it'd be that easy. If he is going to win against a werewolf it has to take a considerable toll on him, imo. @Kami Thumb down allegedly meant "spare him" in the ancient Roman empire, I trust you know this? it generally means, the one "in the pinch" should get executed. spare would be thumb up xD // as far as i know, and as far as it makes sense to me. |
| Well I believe Kami just mean thumbs down... not roman gladiator style thumbs down lol |
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| I also think it means die? Wtf? |
| lol okay maybe I misinterpreted your gesture and thought you were being a little merciful? |
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| I'm still confused as to why does Chim think it means "spare" |
| I say ... behead him! Oh, I mean ... My option is that combat in a way you described is far too one sided and lacks any subtlety since it describes as vastly superior to monster girl while that monster girl suppose to be faster and stronger than average human. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
KamikadzeTM said: Because a long time ago I was taught that the roman and the modern thumbs up/down meant opposite things, and that most people had gotten it all wrong.I'm still confused as to why does Chim think it means "spare" Ed: Though I somewhat doubt they used the thumb up/down at all, and I also seriously doubt the romans themselves depicted the gesture or documented that "On this sunny day, the 1st of august in the year 57 of the roman calendar, our most glorious Emperor Nero thus spared the defeated gladiator by gracefully stretching our his arm and pointing his thumb upward for all to see." |
chimechuJun 26, 2014 11:25 AM
| if i'd show you the chapter it would be too much of a spoiler and would include most of the chapter i think. i'm trying to keep it to the minimum at which scene i show |
| While it doesn't seem as OP as I originally imagined, I still doubt the ability to easily dislocate a werewolf's shoulder |
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| well, there was another scene before, but too much spoiler would be also unfair towards the writer. |
| You can not have faster reflexes than average dog/wolf or it is very unlikely and he is even able to break bones in a single hit while his bones doesn't break when being hit by someone who is in average already on pair with strongest human . Some MG are even stronger than werewolfs and able to punch through brick walls, so human logic can't be applied here. And if he claims he did martial arts .. no, you can't get this level from average lessons available to general populace since that is mostly used only to bully those weaker and younger. I doubt he didn't declared himself someone from spec ops? edit .. However, thinking of it, we got worse approved already. He can clearly argument with that. Still I would ask him to reconsider that "I am faster and stronger that any monstergirl" approach as next chapter he will punch hole through Kaori herself. Only reason this didn't happened in Yuda story just yet is I was a snitch who brought it to GM. |
beast_regardsJun 26, 2014 12:03 PM
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| Using the character charts is actually kind of difficult to compare at times. How the hell do humans have a "special"? But either way I think this is pretty clear, the werewolf is stronger, faster and apparently smarter (if a bit scattered at times). |
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| The Special stat for the humans is kinda just....there. A few MGs don't have specials either but have that stat. Ignore. |
| Indeed, green. I think the issue is a concern that allowing this part might lead to more badassery and either a) give a somewhat schewed perception of what is possible/allowed/common state, or b) Sooner or later turn into Yudaism |
| You can approve it on basis that we got worse already and you want to be fair, but guts are telling me, if he wants to be a superior warrior right off the bat in first minutes on the island, it will only get worse in following chapters. You know, subtlety. Of course, you want to like your alter-ego, but at least don't start whole story already working with premise of being the biggest baddest mot********* on this side of universe. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| @Beats Yeah, I somehow get the feeling that he will go into the usual "training" which equals becoming unreasonably powerful under pretext that you earned it. |
KamikadzeTMJun 26, 2014 12:34 PM
KamikadzeTM said: @Beats Yeah, I somehow get he feeling that he will go into the usual "training" which equals becoming unreasonably powerful under pretext that you earned it. And if you can earn the right to be powerful in MSG then you can definitely can't do so in first chapter. No free boost from level 1 to 90 on first quest! |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| I don't like all of these assumptions :T Sent you each a pm explaining my side (just figured out how to join a club sorry bout that ^^lll) |
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| Putting this here so everyone can see since it's relevant to everyone's opinion Clarus_Nox's explanation |
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