Absolving rape victims of all responsibility. (TL;DR)

Nicole said:
If you don't want to get raped, don't drink ever, don't go out at night, never meet new people and never wear skimpy clothes.

JadeQuetzal said:

My entire point has been, what's your point in saying all this? Do you believe saying this will actually somehow prevent rape from happening as often? In which case I direct you to go back and read my other comments over.... or do you just enjoy adding mental anguish to someone who has likely already suffered more than you will ever have to, and will continue to for the rest of their lives? What do you hope to achieve by placing blame on rape victims?

geezdad said:
No need to point it out more clearly. Your mistake is the following:
Clearly the rapist is the drunk driver and the woman with the skinny dress is the pedestrian.

In the drunk driver situation:
The pedestrian is walking 1. Alone, 2. At night, 3. Not visible enough, 4. Crossing the road.

cabacc2 said:
I think we can agree on the point, that telling young girls that walking at night alone in a dangerous area isnt that good of an idea, can be good.

cabacc2 said:
wtf? NO!
it doesnt matter who took the damage from the incident, because the analogy was made to point out who was responsible for the incident to happen. The outcome is not relevant to answer this question. Neither is who is pedestrian or victim. This is not what my analogy aimed for. get it already....

Mogu-sama said:
If you don't want to experience happiness or any sense of having lived, don't leave the house, lock all your doors, don't use electronic devices, speak to no one, live off of subsistence farming on a private lot away from all major cities...

geezdad said:
Of course there's nothing wrong to warn people that some neighbourhoods are best avoided. But it's a pretty warped view that if someone happened to be walking in that neighbourhood and gets raped because of it it's somehow partially their own fault.

geezdad said:

There's nothing to get. Your reasoning is wrong and that's the end of it. You could shift the responsibility to the pedestrian in that situation, while clearly it's the fault of the drunk driver. You're so stuck up on your own faulty reasoning that it's best to just end this discussion.

Nicole said:
He wanted to teach women to be careful.

Yes, because we clearly don't get taught that, that we apparently needed a thread here to do it. Because I remember being taught how to be careful from my mother when I was a kid, I remember being taught 'don't go in dark alley ways' when I was in school. You really think that teaching something that we've been taught hundreds of times before we're even teens, is somehow going to change anything.

What it is, is blaming women for it, 'if you're just more careful, than rapes wouldn't happen', it's complete bullshit.

cabacc2 said:
I cant say it more clearly.

Tachii said:
Your line of reasoning is good OP. But there's really nothing to discuss here. People already misunderstood your intention for making this thread and that seems like the only area for discussion (albeit in a very negative way). I also highly doubt people even read your opening post completely without heavy bias of their own approaching such a sensitive topic. And that is understandable as well.

Mod Edit: Removed statements about the progression of the thread (off-topic).

Immahnoob said:
"Your analogy is completely wrong."
"Why?"
"..."

Shiratori99 said:


There are people who don't get taught that and/or are just stupid/naive. Combine that with the attitude of a rebellious teenager who generally doesn't listen to good advice and you have a whole generation of teenage girls who are at enhanced risk of becoming crime victims because they take unnecessary risks. But I agree that indoctrinating them won't do much good, since they are, well, rebellious teenagers.

RedRoseFring said:
[^This. Reading the OP's post, it does not seem like he is suggesting we go and shout "It's all your fault!" to rape victims, but warning people BEFOREHAND to take precautions.
Every small step counts. Just setting up a guardrail (which is still easily surmountable) on a bridge can greatly reduce the number of people jumping off of it.

JadeQuetzal said:
So what you're saying... is that you're not saying it's the victim's fault... you're just saying that it's the victim's actions fault? -_-

You're not blaming the victim, but you are. which is it?

Nicole said:

This thread is simply about putting ALL the responsibility on women

Nicole said:

This thread is simply about putting ALL the responsibility on women, all this getting drunk, wearing certain outfits etc is

wubikro said:

The rape was absolutely the rapists fault alone, but the rape would've never occurred if the rape victim had made common sense decisions to begin with.

Nicole said:

NOT the only way rapes happen, in-fact it's not even one of the major causes of it, as has been stated before, rapes are usually committed by someone who knows you, it's not all some 'drunk in a club, pulled into a dark alley way by a stranger' type of rape, those are actually not all that common.

Nicole said:
(unless someone wears a 'please rape me' t shirt or something, but those don't exist.

geezdad said:
Problem is that you see a responsibility that doesn't exist. You can keep caps locking all you want, but your analogy is still completely wrong. But be sure to reply with another demeaning tone while you're at it.

cabacc2 said:
please, I beg you. Read the thread before you answer.
please.

Nicole said:


Can I please beg you to stop posting in this thread? Some of your analogies have been horrifically awful. Comparing it to drink driving...wow.

Kousoku11 said:
So what would this responsibility for being ignorant/lacking common sense contribute to, exactly?

Does your idea involve going up to the victim of rape and stating "Now, we all know that it was the other person that raped you. But don't you agree that this is your own fault as well?" Maybe not with those exact words, but with the same message.

Because as much as I'd like to be wrong on this, one can't fully prevent the possibility of someone lacking common sense and getting into a situation like that beforehand.

And lecturing the victim about it after it has happened wouldn't do much either, as you'd assume that the victim is going to be a lot more careful in the future even without reminding about it separately.

Zeally said:
This thread is inappropriately dressed and packaged like the thinly clothed promiscuous girl at the bar; just asking for it.

wubikro said:


It's really not that hard to understand. I'm placing the responsibility of the victims actions before the crime even occurs on the victim. Criminals alone are entirely responsible for the crimes they commit, while victims alone are entirely responsible for their actions before the crime even occurs.

cabacc2 said:

it doesnt matter who took the damage from the incident, because the analogy was made to point out who was responsible for the incident to happen. The outcome is not relevant to answer this question. Neither is who is pedestrian or victim. This is not what my analogy aimed for. get it already....

cabacc2 said:

I... ... .. explained how responsibility works with this analogy. And why taking away responsibility from one side does not affect the other side. You see a line of reasoning that I never made. Of course the analogy fails when it comes to the pedestrian-victim thing. Obviously. But as I said: This does not matter, because I just explained how the concept of responsibility works, or better: WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INCDENT TO HAPPEN? this was the question I tackled with the analogy.
the outcome - or who the pedestrian is, DOES NOT MATTER, to answer this question.

cabacc2 said:

what the outcome of the situation is, is irrelevant for my analogy. I made it to make the concept of responsibility more clear. Who was responsible for the incident to happen? What the outcome was, is not relevant for this question.

Makomonogatari said:
I feel like this whole debate is ultimately useless and distractionary. It's just people employing vague philosophical notions of how responsibility is assigned, in order to make edgy claims that are intended to upset. The "pro-responsibility" side doesn't—at least, it seems to me—seriously want to discuss philosophy, nor do they seriously want to discuss rape. They just want to repeat the same, loose argument ad nauseam.

Nicole said:


I really don't get it.

Do men not understand that we're taught to be careful about rape when we're growing up? Like in school? Not to mention by our families, not to mention by society in general?

Seriously?

KentoBento said:
Tbh, if have the people who've posted would actually read and stop letting emotions get to them, they'd see OP has a point.

Women are educated about rape, but still make retarded choices like getting drunk at a place with randoms or walking through an alley with skimpy clothes on, or walking through a dark area in a big city alone.

cabacc2 said:

seems sexist.

JadeQuetzal said:


Wow... just... wow. You DO realize the extreme and blatant hypocrisy in your reply to her suggestion, right?

No, I see no logic in your suggestions. Nicole's done a good job at making the points why clear enough. Read her post #106.

And why are you generalizing so much? Rape victims this... rape victims that... You are coming at this with blind ignorance. Dark alley rapes and raping a passed out woman are only a few of many different situations, most of which have nothing to do with being in an unfriendly neighborhood or the way you dress. You are addressing them all as one, assigning blame regardless of the situation, most of which do not even occur as you are suggesting.

But let's get back to your blame game. It's because girls dress slutty? Would everyone here agree with me in saying that women's fashion has become more and more intimate in the past several decades? That even 12 year olds walk around now sporting "juicy" on their rear ends and many could pass for well over their age because of the increased use of make up and revealing clothing at a younger and younger age? If what you said was true, then it would also be true, in turn, that rapes would directly correlate with that of women's evolving fashion and party habits, right? Not only that, but society now (save for some such as yourself) are more understanding towards rape victims than ever before in history. Given that fact, and the increasing awareness that men can also be victims, it only makes sense that a higher percentage of rapes in both men and women are reported in the usa than ever before.

Taking into consideration that you blame fashion and partying on contributing to rape, and the fact that people are more likely to come forward about it in recent years, then by your logic, rape would be at an all time high inside the usa. And yet........ rapes are less frequent now than they ever have been in over 30 years. Now I'm, of course, only taking into consideration statistics here in the USA. Because in most other countries in the world your "logic" is about as illogical as a talking tree as the cultures of many of these countries are so sexist that women are quite literally put in jail for reporting rapes.

JadeQuetzal said:

Wow... just... wow. You DO realize the extreme and blatant hypocrisy in your reply to her suggestion, right?

No, I see no logic in your suggestions. Nicole's done a good job at making the points why clear enough. Read her post #106.

And why are you generalizing so much? Rape victims this... rape victims that... You are coming at this with blind ignorance. Dark alley rapes and raping a passed out woman are only a few of many different situations, most of which have nothing to do with being in an unfriendly neighborhood or the way you dress. You are addressing them all as one, assigning blame regardless of the situation, most of which do not even occur as you are suggesting.

But let's get back to your blame game. It's because girls dress slutty? Would everyone here agree with me in saying that women's fashion has become more and more intimate in the past several decades? That even 12 year olds walk around now sporting "juicy" on their rear ends and many could pass for well over their age because of the increased use of make up and revealing clothing at a younger and younger age? If what you said was true, then it would also be true, in turn, that rapes would directly correlate with that of women's evolving fashion and party habits, right? Not only that, but society now (save for some such as yourself) are more understanding towards rape victims than ever before in history. Given that fact, and the increasing awareness that men can also be victims, it only makes sense that a higher percentage of rapes in both men and women are reported in the usa than ever before.

Taking into consideration that you blame fashion and partying on contributing to rape, and the fact that people are more likely to come forward about it in recent years, then by your logic, rape would be at an all time high inside the usa. And yet........ rapes are less frequent now than they ever have been in over 30 years. Now I'm, of course, only taking into consideration statistics here in the USA. Because in most other countries in the world your "logic" is about as illogical as a talking tree as the cultures of many of these countries are so sexist that women are quite literally put in jail for reporting rapes.

JadeQuetzal said:

Dark alley rapes and raping a passed out woman are only a few of many different situations

JD2411 said:
Women should be allowed to wear what they want without getting raped

JD2411 said:
I should be able to wear my Naruto outfit to school without getting beaten up

JD2411 said:
We don't live in a perfect world.

JD2411 said:
If you had the choice of 2 paths, on one you would be attacked and the other is perfectly safe, which would you choose?

Shiratori99 said:
I'm repeating myself, but if even 1 rape is being prevented by teaching women to be cautious the policy is a success already.

Shiratori99 said:
I'm repeating myself, but if even 1 rape is being prevented by teaching women to be cautious the policy is a success already.

lupadim said:
I want details as for where each path leads to.

Makomonogatari said:
No, it wouldn't be. You have to weigh the costs and the benefits. We could spend billions of dollars putting traffic barriers on every road, but we won't because that would be an incredibly large waste of money—even though it would prevent some accidents.

lupadim said:
Yes, they should indeed be allowed to wear what they want. The problem is when they don't wear anything at all, or not enough.

JD2411 said:
The one where you're attacked leads to the One Piece universe and the one that is safe leads to the Magi universe

Nicole said:
We should all wear burqa's then? Well I mean if we're completely covered up, that should prevent rapes then? Since apparently every rape is caused by women's clothes.

Oh wait...

Nicole said:


You could prevent more rapes by taking up my suggestion and banning men from drinking alcohol or going out at night.

KentoBento said:
Another comment about how the point isn't a logical one, but yet ..nothing to argue against it.

lupadim said:
I am merely saying women should use clothes.

KentoBento said:
You know, rapes happen by females too.

And don't some states have restrictions on alcohol at night? And just because it's banned doesn't mean it's going to stop something.

The more wary and cautious a person is however, the less likely an accident will occur.

Again, like my post said, shit examples.