Solkiskey said: So what is it even going to adapt, then? lol Kinda sounds messy. NO one knows. We got a huge article int he magazine, that is bassically interview with the director who is being vague and talking more about proccess than about content, yet again. And a poster. WE still know not which route they are adapt or if multiple ones. all we know is that they are halfway done with the script, new clothes, shirou will not smile that much and we will get more insight into his "a void trying to be human" stoic mentality. . That's it. |
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Solkiskey said: So what is it even going to adapt, then? lol Kinda sounds messy. Imagine the shitstorm if it was to adapt Hollow Ataraxia story ! |
| That shitstorm, rofl. I won't really state anything, waiting for more informations. At least, I can expect something because it's Nasu and like already said, I think the original content is just an extra background from F/0. |
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| We barely know anything about this anime as of now. Can we stop throwing a hissy fit over rumored, possibly misinterpreted details? |
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| ITT: People jumping to hasty, hysterical conclusions. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
| I do think they have to add their own content rather than adapt the VN because the VN doesn't feature as much references to the fourth grail war as probably needed if it's supposed to be a contituation (sorry for my spelling). I personally would appreciate if the consequences of the fourth war were more clear and impactful. The whole new character designs/looks is unnecessary though.... Rin dresses like her father, Shiruo dresses plain&practical, all makes sense. And Saber doesn't care what she wears, she just got given an outfit by Rin. So why change that... Heaven's Feel would've been cool though but I doubt it's gonna be that then. True Assassin is my 2nd fav servant ;(. |
DaBase333 said: I do think they have to add their own content rather than adapt the VN because the VN doesn't feature as much references to the fourth grail war as probably needed if it's supposed to be a contituation (sorry for my spelling). I personally would appreciate if the consequences of the fourth war were more clear and impactful. The whole new character designs/looks is unnecessary though.... Rin dresses like her father, Shiruo dresses plain&practical, all makes sense. And Saber doesn't care what she wears, she just got given an outfit by Rin. So why change that... Heaven's Feel would've been cool though but I doubt it's gonna be that then. True Assassin is my 2nd fav servant ;(. Changes in clothing are probably for the same reason they made that cheasy transformation scene of Sabermobile in F/Z. Ie to make her look more "cool" Well i dont mind them wearing diffrent clothes form timeto time, but lets hope this wont be anythign out of character. First of all there are allready visible changes made to Saber hair - they are visibly more wild and flapping all over her face instead of neat clean haircut of Original F/SN VN. Anyway this is no use to criticise right now . I allready expecienced perfecion of F/SN through VN and I will forever keep those characters in my mind and heart. So i dont mind if they make it worse in that Anime. Well I do mind little since new ppl would have twisted opinion of this amazing piece of stoty if it turnes up way diffrent, but as Japanese say Shoganai |
| ITT: f/z haters raging about f/z becoming the new canon. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: ITT: f/z haters raging about f/z becoming the new canon. ITT: clueless idiots making stupid ITT remarks. F/0 has always been canon. There's no "new canon". |
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| F/Z had lots of inconsistency issues with F/SN (as you know), and this new adaptation is gonna fix them in favor of F/Z. Also, most importantly, Nasu is involved in this. Huzzah! I guess some fans will have difficulty sucking it up. |
DawnJJan 30, 2014 12:33 AM
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: Mind mentioning some?F/Z had lots of inconsistency issues with F/SN (as you know) Edit:Wait you mean the anime? |
ssjokg said: DawnJ said: Mind mentioning some?F/Z had lots of inconsistency issues with F/SN (as you know) Edit:Wait you mean the anime? I won't bother writing all of them, but anyway. For example, Saber in F/SN said; She was spamming excalibur thanks to enough mana support in the last war. She drove Gil out in the last war. She didn't have hard time conquering the last war. Kirei said in F/SN he killed Kiritsugu. And many of his settings (personal history, wife, etc) has inconsistencies. Who caused the conflagration of Fuyuki city - F/SN: Kirei / F/Z: Kiritsugu Well, I think there'll be a list made by type-moon fans about the inconsistency, but yeah. We'll have F/SN the retconn of 2014. |
DawnJJan 30, 2014 3:55 AM
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: For example, Saber in F/SN said; She was spamming excalibur thanks to enough mana support in the last war. She drove Gil out in the last war. She didn't have hard time conquering the last war. DawnJ said: When did she do that?I dont remember her driving out Gil or conquering the 4th war. Kirei said in F/SN he killed Kiritsugu. And many of his settings (personal history, wife, etc) has inconsistencies. He did.Once in their fight and Kiritsugu revived. I dont remember the scene but it was a metaphor since Kirei's "wish" caused the fire mindraping Kiritusgu, or since Kirei lives because of Angra Mainyu he takes the curse as his own doing. It isnt inconsistency.Just Kirei twisting the truth like always.LIke when he said that he was eliminated very early in the war which in a way it is true but we all know what he means. How is his personal history inconsistent? DawnJ said: Who caused the conflagration of Fuyuki city - F/SN: Kirei / F/Z: Kiritsugu FSN:Both FZ:Both. It is never confirmed that the grail granted any wish in the 4th war.Was it Kiritsugu's fault and the outcome resulted in Kirei's wish being "fulfilled" or was it the grail granting Kirei's wish? What we DO know is that any wish would result in an apocalypse.What was destroyed was only a part of Fuyuki. |
DawnJ said: ssjokg said: DawnJ said: Mind mentioning some?F/Z had lots of inconsistency issues with F/SN (as you know) Edit:Wait you mean the anime? I won't bother writing all of them, but anyway. For example, Saber in F/SN said; She was spamming excalibur thanks to enough mana support in the last war. She drove Gil out in the last war. She didn't have hard time conquering the last war. Kirei said in F/SN he killed Kiritsugu. And many of his settings (personal history, wife, etc) has inconsistencies. Who caused the conflagration of Fuyuki city - F/SN: Kirei / F/Z: Kiritsugu Well, I think there'll be a list made by type-moon fans about the inconsistency, but yeah. We'll have F/SN the retconn of 2014. Kerry was killed, so was Kirei, if you remember. THey got better. None of that is inconsistency. All of that is previous shitty adaptation failing to explain itself.And Kirei being a troll. mootjuh said: Pretty sure if the original creator writes something that overlaps canon, the new material will be considered cannon. One could see it as an update to the story and are usually small differences like what someone used to travel in 1 chapter. The way nasuverse works, no new canon overlaps the old one since there's no single canon. |
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ssjokg said: How is his personal history inconsistent? -FZ -Original -The death of Kirei's wife awakened his sadism, but he was denying it. Then the sadism reawakened during the 4th war (by helping Kariya). -He's been a sadist since young (which is before f/z). His wife's death made him stop trying to change himself. -Kirei didn't know about the holy grail war or magic before joining Tokiomi's side. (wife already dead then) -He learned magic to look after his wife. |
DawnJJan 30, 2014 4:55 AM
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
ssjokg said: DawnJ said: For example, Saber in F/SN said; She was spamming excalibur thanks to enough mana support in the last war. She drove Gil out in the last war. She didn't have hard time conquering the last war. DawnJ said: When did she do that?I dont remember her driving out Gil or conquering the 4th war. Kirei said in F/SN he killed Kiritsugu. And many of his settings (personal history, wife, etc) has inconsistencies. He did.Once in their fight and Kiritsugu revived. I dont remember the scene but it was a metaphor since Kirei's "wish" caused the fire mindraping Kiritusgu, or since Kirei lives because of Angra Mainyu he takes the curse as his own doing. It isnt inconsistency.Just Kirei twisting the truth like always.LIke when he said that he was eliminated very early in the war which in a way it is true but we all know what he means. How is his personal history inconsistent? DawnJ said: Who caused the conflagration of Fuyuki city - F/SN: Kirei / F/Z: Kiritsugu FSN:Both FZ:Both. It is never confirmed that the grail granted any wish in the 4th war.Was it Kiritsugu's fault and the outcome resulted in Kirei's wish being "fulfilled" or was it the grail granting Kirei's wish? What we DO know is that any wish would result in an apocalypse.What was destroyed was only a part of Fuyuki. Conflagation of Fuyuki was neighter Kiritsugu's nor Kirei's wish it was the result of incompleate grail breaking and splashing the place with its contents. so you can say it is Kiritsugu's fault. Only mistery in all that is why was Kirei revived, but here is no definete answer in neighter both anime and game. There is no way to tell why did kiritsugu died in F/SN VN It might be in fact Kirei doing, nothing in F/Z oposes that. About Saber saing that 5th war was easy for her - well that just her opinion from new perspective. If she is twice weaker under Shirou command it is understandable. Still i agree it feals a bit silly , but inconsestencies like that can always be justified fimply as lie/bad memory/exageration from the speaker perspective. Only real incosistency, and Huge one at that is in F/SN VN it is said that Kiritsugu never brought Irisviel to Fuyuki in 5th Holy Grail War. It is stated clearly that he left Iri and Ilia in Einzbern Castle betrayed them and never returned. I think both Saber and Ilia confirmed that. |
Angmir said: ssjokg said: DawnJ said: For example, Saber in F/SN said; She was spamming excalibur thanks to enough mana support in the last war. She drove Gil out in the last war. She didn't have hard time conquering the last war. DawnJ said: When did she do that?I dont remember her driving out Gil or conquering the 4th war. Kirei said in F/SN he killed Kiritsugu. And many of his settings (personal history, wife, etc) has inconsistencies. He did.Once in their fight and Kiritsugu revived. I dont remember the scene but it was a metaphor since Kirei's "wish" caused the fire mindraping Kiritusgu, or since Kirei lives because of Angra Mainyu he takes the curse as his own doing. It isnt inconsistency.Just Kirei twisting the truth like always.LIke when he said that he was eliminated very early in the war which in a way it is true but we all know what he means. How is his personal history inconsistent? DawnJ said: Who caused the conflagration of Fuyuki city - F/SN: Kirei / F/Z: Kiritsugu FSN:Both FZ:Both. It is never confirmed that the grail granted any wish in the 4th war.Was it Kiritsugu's fault and the outcome resulted in Kirei's wish being "fulfilled" or was it the grail granting Kirei's wish? What we DO know is that any wish would result in an apocalypse.What was destroyed was only a part of Fuyuki. Conflagation of Fuyuki was neighter Kiritsugu's nor Kirei's wish it was the result of incompleate grail breaking and splashing the place with its contents. so you can say it is Kiritsugu's fault. Only mistery in all that is why was Kirei revived, but here is no definete answer in neighter both anime and game. There is no way to tell why did kiritsugu died in F/SN VN It might be in fact Kirei doing, nothing in F/Z oposes that. About Saber saing that 5th war was easy for her - well that just her opinion from new perspective. If she is twice weaker under Shirou command it is understandable. Still i agree it feals a bit silly , but inconsestencies like that can always be justified fimply as lie/bad memory/exageration from the speaker perspective. Only real incosistency, and Huge one at that is in F/SN VN it is said that Kiritsugu never brought Irisviel to Fuyuki in 5th Holy Grail War. It is stated clearly that he left Iri and Ilia in Einzbern Castle betrayed them and never returned. I think both Saber and Ilia confirmed that. I am talking about the characters POV. Kirei was revived because of his connection with Gil. Both wars were HARD to her.And she could nothing against Gil. I dont remember that. |
DawnJ said: ssjokg said: How is his personal history inconsistent? -FZ -Original -The death of Kirei's wife awakened his sadism, but he was denying it. Then the sadism reawakened during the 4th war (by helping Kariya). -He's been a sadist since young (which is before f/z). His wife's death made him stop trying to change himself. -Kirei didn't know about the holy grail war or magic before joining Tokiomi's side. (wife already dead then) -He learned magic to look after his wife. Kirei was twisted since young and he knew it, but he never had a way to realize it in what way.He only knew he was different.During his wife's death, it was the first time he realized in what way and even then he did his best to deny it(enter Gilgamesh).And he never tried to change himself,he was only denying it. Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. |
ssjokg said: I dont remember that. I am replaying throug F/SN VN as we speak. It was mentioned 2 times in 2 diffrent routes stating clearly that Ilya's mother was left by Kiritsugu in Einzbern country. + several times it is mentioned indireectly that Ilya's Mother never left Einbern Castle (the one in Europe) This aint even speculation on my part but it was clearly stated like that. I am replaying through all3 routes of Fate/SN fight right now, i am allmost finished, as I was always on guard searching for any plot holes, I can tell that there arent many things not fitting. Fate is narrated in a way that lives a lot of room for interpretations, and first of all even theose routes arent 100% consistant with each other. Nevertheless it is obvious that character of Irilsviel was created only for the needs of F/Z, and she should never come to Fuyuki if F/SN VN is to be considered Cannon. PS. As for Kirei resurection thanks to his contract with Gilgamesh it sounds fishy to me. Gilgamesh didnt had resurecting powers to start with, and he mearly survived getting drowned in the Grail contents, nothing more. Well it was saaid that he was able to regain his body in this world thanks to that - but thats another lie of kirei, since he still have to feed on magical energy to remain in this world. I myself like to think that Kirei is nt a human actualy - he is an aberation, a feature Angra Manyu maybe, anti human made of bad emotions and sin. Thus beeing washed in all the evil of the word- ie Grail Contents must have been like entering Heavens for him - thus the resurection. Anyway there is no concrate evidence of eighter theory beeing true, adn his revival will forever remain a mistery. |
AngmirJan 30, 2014 5:51 AM
ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. |
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Angmir said: ssjokg said: I dont remember that. I am replaying throug F/SN VN as we speak. It was mentioned 2 times in 2 diffrent routes stating clearly that Ilya's mother was left by Kiritsugu in Einzbern country. + several times it is mentioned indireectly that Ilya's Mother never left Einbern Castle (the one in Europe) This aint even speculation on my part but it was clearly stated like that. I am replaying through all3 routes of Fate/SN fight right now, i am allmost finished, as I was always on guard searching for any plot holes, I can tell that there arent many things not fitting. Fate is narrated in a way that lives a lot of room for interpretations, and first of all even theose routes arent 100% consistant with each other. Nevertheless it is obvious that character of Irilsviel was created only for the needs of F/Z, and she should never come to Fuyuki if F/SN VN is to be considered Cannon. PS. As for Kirei resurection thanks to his contract with Gilgamesh it sounds fishy to me. Gilgamesh didnt had resurecting powers to start with, and he mearly survived getting drowned in the Grail contents, nothing more. Well it was saaid that he was able to regain his body in this world thanks to that - but thats another lie of kirei, since he still have to feed on magical energy to remain in this world. I myself like to think that Kirei is nt a human actualy - he is an aberation, a feature Angra Manyu maybe, anti human made of bad emotions and sin. Thus beeing washed in all the evil of the word- ie Grail Contents must have been like entering Heavens for him - thus the resurection. Anyway there is no concrate evidence of eighter theory beeing true, adn his revival will forever remain a mistery. Its HEAVILY Implied that its what the Einzberns wanted Illya to think. Kerry tried multiple times to go back, but could not. Einzberns on other hand spent time telling horrible things about him to her as revenge. DawnJ said: ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. Church are hypocrites like that. Executors know magic, otherwise they could not have ways todefend against it. |
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DawnJ said: ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. lol in F/SN he is Aprentince to Tokiymi and a senior to Tohsaka, I havent reach the part of the story in HF route that depicts Kirei background in detail, but there is no contradiction here. Even in Fate Zero Kiritsugu says Kirei leaned a dozen diffrent kind of magics until mastery point, then cast it away chasing after another. Tokiyomi is only his last teacher. |
DawnJ said: ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. Wait, was Kirei an executor before the grail war? |
| "After I finish fucking you. I am going to kill you." |
JackFisher said: DawnJ said: ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. Wait, was Kirei an executor before the grail war? Black Keys are something only executors are allowed to wield since only they have a training. He has received training, but I am not sure he ever officially became one. |
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Fai Its HEAVILY Implied that its what the Einzberns wanted Illya to think. Kerry tried multiple times to go back, but could not. Einzberns on other hand spent time telling horrible things about him to her as revenge. [/quote said: I dont deny that Kiritsugu loved Iri and Ilya, and he wanted to take her back. This is propaganda Ilya heard from Einzberns all right. But the fact that Iri never came to Japan with Kiritsugu is another fact (acording to F/SN) It is not only Ilya saing that, Kirei and Saber also mention this. And ofc nobody mentions Irisviel ever taking a part of Holy Grail war in F/SN. Thats the inconsistency between F/SN and F/Z that I am talking about. |
Angmir said: lol in F/SN he is Aprentince to Tokiymi and a senior to Tohsaka, I havent reach the part of the story in HF route that depicts Kirei background in detail, but there is no contradiction here. Even in Fate Zero Kiritsugu says Kirei leaned a dozen diffrent kind of magics until mastery point, then cast it away chasing after another. Tokiyomi is only his last teacher. I'm talking about Fate/Zero, you know. 1) He never knew about how to use magic before joining Tokiomi. (IN FATE/ZERO) 2) He learned magic under Tokiomi for 3 years. (IN FATE/ZERO) Well, open the book (or file) and just read a few pages. It's in the very first volume. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
JackFisher said: Wait, was Kirei an executor before the grail war? Executor is somethign similar to Witch Hunter. Kirei isnt acting as Executor durring events of F/Z or F/SN, this is a title he earned a long time before that. Itbasicly means he is the member of the Church trained in anti-Magus combat. Thats why he says he is the same as Kiritsugu who is also a Magus-killer. But those are times long before events of F/Z. Anyway Kotomine Kirei past is definatly complicated, /sasugu/ Kirei one of my favorite characters of FSN universe |
Angmir said: Fai said: Its HEAVILY Implied that its what the Einzberns wanted Illya to think. Kerry tried multiple times to go back, but could not. Einzberns on other hand spent time telling horrible things about him to her as revenge. I dont deny that Kiritsugu loved Iri and Ilya, and he wanted to take her back. This is propaganda Ilya heard from Einzberns all right. But the fact that Iri never came to Japan with Kiritsugu is another fact (acording to F/SN) It is not only Ilya saing that, Kirei and Saber also mention this. And ofc nobody mentions Irisviel ever taking a part of Holy Grail war in F/SN. Thats the inconsistency between F/SN and F/Z that I am talking about. Kirei is a troll. Saber hates Kerry's guts. She also has no idea that this Illya is THE Illya because age does not fit. Neither are a reliable source. |
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Angmir said: JackFisher said: Wait, was Kirei an executor before the grail war? Executor is somethign similar to Witch Hunter. Kirei isnt acting as Executor durring events of F/Z or F/SN, this is a title he earned a long time before that. Itbasicly means he is the member of the Church trained in anti-Magus combat. Thats why he says he is the same as Kiritsugu who is also a Magus-killer. But those are times long before events of F/Z. Anyway Kotomine Kirei past is definatly complicated, /sasugu/ Kirei one of my favorite characters of FSN universe He says he is same as Kerry not for this reason but for his status as Sociopath/twisted/warper person. Kirei genuinely believed that he found someone like himself. THat's why he gets pissy at Kerry latter on when he realizes that Kerry DOES have emotions, but instead subdues them for his job. For Kirei who has been searching for emotions, for meaning, all his life that's a travesty. |
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DawnJ said: ssjokg said: Kirei already knew magic.He wouldnt be a skilled Executor if he didnt know about magic.But the magic the Church uses and the one Tokiomi/any magi would teach him are quite different. The church forbids their members from learning or using magic. In F/SN he learned to help his wife (as I wrote above), and In F/Z he learned magic under Tokiomi. It's in Fate/Zero vol.1. He was not involved in any kind of business related with magic or holy grail war before. DawnJ said: Angmir said: lol in F/SN he is Aprentince to Tokiymi and a senior to Tohsaka, I havent reach the part of the story in HF route that depicts Kirei background in detail, but there is no contradiction here. Even in Fate Zero Kiritsugu says Kirei leaned a dozen diffrent kind of magics until mastery point, then cast it away chasing after another. Tokiyomi is only his last teacher. I'm talking about Fate/Zero, you know. 1) He never knew about how to use magic before joining Tokiomi. (IN FATE/ZERO) 2) He learned magic under Tokiomi for 3 years. (IN FATE/ZERO) Well, open the book (or file) and just read a few pages. It's in the very first volume. Nope.The church does use magic.Except that it has different foundation than "heretical magic". Unless if you mean that Tokiomi taught him how to fight spirits and demons and how to use Black Keys.What Kirei used against Zouken Being an Executor, he is allowed to learn magic that is based on foreign magecraft. Tokiomi taught him magecraft that arent taught at all in the Church, being Executors or not. |
ssjokgJan 30, 2014 6:31 AM
DawnJ said: Angmir said: lol in F/SN he is Aprentince to Tokiymi and a senior to Tohsaka, I havent reach the part of the story in HF route that depicts Kirei background in detail, but there is no contradiction here. Even in Fate Zero Kiritsugu says Kirei leaned a dozen diffrent kind of magics until mastery point, then cast it away chasing after another. Tokiyomi is only his last teacher. I'm talking about Fate/Zero, you know. 1) He never knew about how to use magic before joining Tokiomi. (IN FATE/ZERO) 2) He learned magic under Tokiomi for 3 years. (IN FATE/ZERO) Well, open the book (or file) and just read a few pages. It's in the very first volume. Oknow i know where are our diffrent views commign from - you are talking about F/Z manga, i am talking about F/Z anime. Aparently F/Z manga isnt cannonical at all. Since even in F/Z anime Kiritsugu says Kirei used all di\ffrent schools of magic in his past. Anyway for me most importatnt source is the original work - F/SN Visual Novel Anime fro Deen is jsut an adaptation. I guess F/Z anime can be considred quite close to Cannon since it was directly supervised by T-moon ppl. I also guess that the new Aniem will be made to straighten all the inconsistencies, and establish new cannon "route" through 5th Grail War for the sake of easly expanding the story past it later on. |
Angmir said: DawnJ said: Angmir said: lol in F/SN he is Aprentince to Tokiymi and a senior to Tohsaka, I havent reach the part of the story in HF route that depicts Kirei background in detail, but there is no contradiction here. Even in Fate Zero Kiritsugu says Kirei leaned a dozen diffrent kind of magics until mastery point, then cast it away chasing after another. Tokiyomi is only his last teacher. I'm talking about Fate/Zero, you know. 1) He never knew about how to use magic before joining Tokiomi. (IN FATE/ZERO) 2) He learned magic under Tokiomi for 3 years. (IN FATE/ZERO) Well, open the book (or file) and just read a few pages. It's in the very first volume. Oknow i know where are our diffrent views commign from - you are talking about F/Z manga, i am talking about F/Z anime. Aparently F/Z manga isnt cannonical at all. Since even in F/Z anime Kiritsugu says Kirei used all diffrent schools of magic in his past. Anyway for me most importatnt source is the original work - F/SN Visual Novel Anime fro Deen is jsut an adaptation. I guess F/Z anime can be considred quite close to Cannon since it was directly supervised by T-moon ppl. I also guess that the new Aniem will be made to straighten all the inconsistencies, and establish new cannon "route" through 5th Grail War for the sake of easly expanding the story past it later on. There's no F/Z manga. Only a novel. And it also states same stuff. The new anime won't be a new route. |
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Fai said: There's no F/Z manga. Only a novel. Same Fate as Tsuki... |
| Actually there's f/z manga, but I was talking about the novel. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
DawnJ said: Actually there's f/z manga, but I was talking about the novel. Well eighter way... It is aparently not a good source to base your opinions on. Its like various Star Wars novels comming trom before original Trilogy. Then came Groge lucas with The Phantom Menece and ruined it all |
Angmir said: DawnJ said: Actually there's f/z manga, but I was talking about the novel. Well eighter way... It is aparently not a good source to base your opinions on. Well, if you're saying F/SN VN is the only source (as hardcore f/sn fans claim that f/z is only a fanfic), I don't know what to say. F/Z novel is the original of F/Z, anime and manga are adaptations. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
Angmir said: DawnJ said: Actually there's f/z manga, but I was talking about the novel. Well eighter way... It is aparently not a good source to base your opinions on. Its like various Star Wars novels comming trom before original Trilogy. Then came Groge lucas with The Phantom Menece and ruined it all F/0 novel is equally canon and actually MORE accurate than the F/0 anime. And it states same things. |
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DawnJ said: Angmir said: DawnJ said: Actually there's f/z manga, but I was talking about the novel. Well eighter way... It is aparently not a good source to base your opinions on. Well, if you're saying F/SN VN is the only source (as hardcore f/sn fans claim that f/z is only a fanfic), I don't know what to say. F/Z novel is the original of F/Z, anime and manga are adaptations. Of coure F/SN VN is primary source (not only) becouse this in the one that started this universe in the first place. It is olso most detailed and most Widespread. (although its popularity is dwindling as more ppl come to this series not reading the VN - which is sad) And F/Z novel was indeed just a fanfiction that gained general aproval of the T-moon to be released as loosly connected expansion of the universe. (such exoansions have usualy quite a lot of freedom to interpret and change universe beoue they arent considered mainstream and canon.) Although with time T-Moon saw a potencial F/Z had and decided to make it into offical and mainstream part of the Fate universe, by releasing directly supervised Anime - and while doing so fixing some of the things they didnt approved in the novel to better match their future plans. Bigest problem T-M had with Fate was the refraction created in the VN that created 3 difftent stories. This efectively humpered any attempts to create any sequel. I guess those times are over and they finaly decided to make a canon, but we will never know until we see it. |
Fai said: F/0 novel is equally canon and actually MORE accurate than the F/0 anime. And it states same things. Cant argue with that as i havent red Novel myslef. I can only say that aparently the part about kotomine never knowing magic before becoming Tokiyomi aprentice is false both to F/Z anime and F/SN VN. I know it can be vexing for fans of that Novel, but in this case sheer popularity and income generated by Anime overwrites the importance of Novel in eyes of the Fate universe rightfull owners, thus determines which is canon. |
| I just looked up in the FSN text. Shiro talks to Kirei that he is surprised that Kirei can use 'healing magic' because he's not supposed to learn as the church forbids, then Kirei explains that he learned that because a person with fatal illness (=his wife) died before his eyes. His wife died before meeting Tokiomi. So that's the inconsistency between FZ and FSN. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
Angmir said: Fai said: F/0 novel is equally canon and actually MORE accurate than the F/0 anime. And it states same things. Cant argue with that as i havent red Novel myslef. I can only say that aparently the part about kotomine never knowing magic before becoming Tokiyomi aprentice is false both to F/Z anime and F/SN VN. I know it can be vexing for fans of that Novel, but in this case sheer popularity and income generated by Anime overwrites the importance of Novel in eyes of the Fate universe rightfull owners, thus determines which is canon. Novel states same thing that F/0 anime does. DawnJ said: I just looked up in the FSN text. Shiro talks to Kirei that he is surprised that Kirei can use 'healing magic' because he's not supposed to learn as the church forbids, then Kirei explains that he learned that because a person with fatal illness (=his wife) died before his eyes. His wife died before meeting Tokiomi. So that's the inconsistency between FZ and FSN. What part of "kirei had multiple teachers" is so hard to get? |
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DawnJ said: I just looked up in the FSN text. Shiro talks to Kirei that he is surprised that Kirei can use 'healing magic' because he's not supposed to learn as the church forbids, then Kirei explains that he learned that because a person with fatal illness (=his wife) died before his eyes. His wife died before meeting Tokiomi. So that's the inconsistency between FZ and FSN. yeah between F/SN VN and F/Z novel. not between F/SN VN and F/Z anime. And only if what you say about F/Z novel is true (i cant tell as i havent red that) Fai said: Novel states same thing that F/0 anime does. Well maybe. I cant tell. I was only oposing Dawn J with his statement about kotomine in F/Z I havent red Novel so listening to Dawn J i thought maybe it says incorectly that Kirei didnt know magic before becoming Tokiyomi Aprentince. Anyway that seems settled |
AngmirJan 30, 2014 8:03 AM
Fai said: What part of "kirei had multiple teachers" is so hard to get? Inconsistency isn't that hard to catch here. Multiple teachers only makes sense that if he lied(or never told) about magic to his father and Tokiomi and everyone. That's an assumption. Unless using that assumption, IN FATE/ZERO, Tokiomi is his only teacher and he never learned magic before. Angmir said: yeah between F/SN VN and F/Z novel. not between F/SN VN and F/Z anime. Well then. I cannot really remember the anime part. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| The church does use magic.Except that it has different foundation than "heretical magic". Unless if you mean that Tokiomi taught him how to fight spirits and demons and how to use Black Keys.What Kirei used against Zouken Being an Executor, he is allowed to learn magic that is based on foreign magecraft. Tokiomi taught him magecraft that arent taught at all in the Church, being Executors or not. Which part of that is hard to get? Executors fighting demons,wraiths and spirits only with their bare fists is asinine. Magecraft is transforming the outside world by using the prana one has.The Black Keys Kirei uses are materialized by using prana.His clothes are enchanted by the Church's spells. Kirei doesnt know heretical/magi association magecraft.His School is different. |
| oke i don't think i have a clear view of what the "routes" are, can some explain me or link me to a page with a explanation. |
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olha2 said: oke i don't think i have a clear view of what the "routes" are, can some explain me or link me to a page with a explanation. Fate Stay Night consists of three different versions of the same event. First you play through the first one, then it goes back to the first day and you play start again, but this time something different happens, leading the storyline into entirely new direction. After finishing it, the story starts again giving you a third version of events. All three versions are significantly different, lead to different deaths and different events and lead to the lead developing in three different directions. All three are equally canon and the existence of multiple different parallel realities is acknowledged within the storyline. However while separate stories, they rely on each other to tell a complete picture - what you learned about the characters or the world in one route, might be very relevant in the next, for example. |
AhenshihaelJan 30, 2014 10:25 PM
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