Attack on Titan
| I'll quote myself here from the episode 23 thread. A few modifications, but same message. HalfMetalJacket said: This is definitely a find. Thanks who ever posted the truth first, you have enlightened me. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/isayamahazime/imgs/f/2/f2a48d8d.jpg The laughter was totally cool, in fact, I'm totally okay with it. Most manga readers reckon its the whole blushing business, rather than the laugh itself. I mean look at that close up! Too sexualised IMO. The lighting, blushing, lips, eyes, OH GOD!!! It belongs in a parody or something. Tone it down like Isayama's draft for the BD, and I'll be very happy. The laugh can stay. |
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| Dumping my post from the main thread in here as well: Don’t wanna burst manga people’s bubble but Annie’s laugh is approved if not PUSHED by Isayama: I’ve seen some manga fans call out this scene as being OOC for her character but I personally thought it matched her character very well. I felt that key moment showed a sense of irony in the situation. Annie’s outburst shows a sense of guilt, fear, sadness, and it was filled with self-irony (contrary to what many manga fans condemned as a moment of ooc sexualized fan-bait galore…. yeah I’m not even lying about this one) Notice how she laughed after Mikasa CASUALLY addressed her as the Female Titan? As if Mikasa could easily take her on like any normal person? The sheer irony that all four of them were casually talking about her with the clear assumption that she’s the Female Titan must have been both a relief and a moment of utter sadness in Annie’s mind. She’s cornered. She’s been found out. And the best these three can do is bicker with her as if she’s someone they truly know as a casual friend? Funny isn’t it? Two of her most respected former classmates have already accepted her role as the designated “antagonist”, and their insistence on making herself come clean makes it even worse. There’s a hilarious sense of irony that the trio are suddenly able to confront the Female Titan the moment they’re able to recognize the person behind. This sense of recognition allowed Annie to find a sense of relief in what she’s done, but also feel disappointed in the two classmates that she developed respect for (Eren and Armin). People claim that the laugh is problematic because it shows Annie’s subservience to a higher force………How anyone made that glaring assumption out of ONE single outburst/laughter is beyond me and it saddens that the people defending Annie’s depiction in the manga even viewed her that way so as to defend what they’ve come to interpret from the original source. What because any moment of break in composure signals a lack of sense of control? Is that truly wrong? Annie is character filled with conflicted emotions. It’s why she lets her instincts dictate her actions as she has always internalized everything she’s felt. And to let this all out and laugh at it in its face somehow makes her less of a brilliant and strong female antagonist? Wow. It’s interesting to note how I’ve found that many anime fans actually interpreted the exact opposite regarding this issue: Annie was in control, and her laughter is one moment of relief in her mind, showing how she felt about it all. Just as she always thought about the system, how everything has been going on in her life, how these same people she respected and admired came to condemn her while still attempting to convince her…just like how she always viewed the world as it is right now: it’s all one huge farce. Annie finds this sad. She feels guilty, and lonely for all of this. And most of all, Annie finds this funny. Annie realizes that she’s essentially allowed to stop hiding all those pent up emotions, at the expense of giving up that very image of being the “good” person that Armin and Eren had viewed her initially. If there’s one word to describe that feeling that Annie had felt when everyone finally knew it, when everyone understood that she is well and truly the Female Titan: Liberation. And my response to HalfMetalJacket's initial reply to my own post: HalfMetalJacket said: The laugh is not the problem. The kinky blushing, the eyes and lighting effects were. Now if you tone that down, no problems. It's the blushing itself. Not the whole laughing snippet. While I personally had no problems with it (mainly because I don't always associate blushing as being sexual in nature, not to mention even Isayama added blushing on his drawings since it signified frustration and shyness on her part), that's fair enough and I can definitely understand where you're coming from with that especially given the stereotypes surrounded with blushing in anime. Still I don't think that such stereotypes should dictate the intention of its implementation, especially since it's not always necessarily an expression that's sexual in nature (this is my opinion though, as of course, one could argue that people should avoid treading near the stereotype to avoid being associated with it). I'm mainly posting as a food for thought though, so it's not like I'm advocating if I'm right or wrong here. |
| It was sooo much better than the manga imo. So well-directed and the Death Note reference was pretty darn obvious. I just wanted the final sentence she says to be more well drawn @herface. She looked fatter than she is. I guess it will be fixxed in the BDs. |
| So, What do you think is on the other side? |
maconi said: HalfMetalJacket said: I'll quote myself here from the episode 23 thread. A few modifications, but same message. HalfMetalJacket said: This is definitely a find. Thanks who ever posted the truth first, you have enlightened me. http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/isayamahazime/imgs/f/2/f2a48d8d.jpg The laughter was totally cool, in fact, I'm totally okay with it. Most manga readers reckon its the whole blushing business, rather than the laugh itself. I mean look at that close up! Too sexualised IMO. The lighting, blushing, lips, eyes, OH GOD!!! It belongs in a parody or something. Tone it down like Isayama's draft for the BD, and I'll be very happy. The laugh can stay. incase u didnt notice, she was blushing in panel "A" But what about the light? Or the eyes? Maybe blushing wasn't going to be THAT red, like in the anime. Like I've said, turn it down and I'll be happier. |
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Unchou said: It was sooo much better than the manga imo. So well-directed and the Death Note reference was pretty darn obvious. I just wanted the final sentence she says to be more well drawn @herface. She looked fatter than she is. I guess it will be fixxed in the BDs. Godammit. Cannot unsee it. They must fix that. Shit I double posted. Sorry. |
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| Food for thought: While I personally didn't interpret it as being utterly sexualized, I have seen some fans of Annie discussing about this as well in a serious light. On one hand they felt surprised by the blushing, but on the other hand, a lot of them thought that Annie wasn't beyond being a character that's sexual in nature, mainly in the sense of maintaining her emotions so as to exert a controlled dominance over herself. But then the fact that Isayama confirms that this is Annie unhinged, showing her mix of emotions of sadness, shyness, loneliness, and guilt, and she's LAUGHING about it, wouldn't it make sense for her to react that way (even with the blushing) Again, these are from interpretations of some fans of Annie and not necessarily my viewpoint (aside from the suggestion I made with that last line), so make what you will out of that. |
HalfMetalJacket said: Unchou said: It was sooo much better than the manga imo. So well-directed and the Death Note reference was pretty darn obvious. I just wanted the final sentence she says to be more well drawn @herface. She looked fatter than she is. I guess it will be fixxed in the BDs. Godammit. Cannot unsee it. They must fix that. Shit I double posted. Sorry. Yeah, kinda felt a bit off to see her face like this. It should have ended with that face she did on the manga, so ominous and sadistic. |
| So, What do you think is on the other side? |
| Hey, I'm a total fan of Annie. She should be unhinged. But the excessive blushing, lighting, eyes, the angle! All melding into something too much for me to take! Amazing, yet not suitable. Annie has so many lewd moments in this series (counting her FT screentime). Imma compile them. |
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| Thanks for clearing up! I'm glad there's actually a reason why Annie was being portrayed this way. It makes sense now. |
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| ^That, or we're just defending the Studio ; D |
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HalfMetalJacket said: ^That, or we're just defending the Studio ; D Defending the studio? Not necessary the case. The studio certainly did stuff that were bad but at the same time, they did some pretty amazing stuff owo I'm honestly glad to hear that a lot of these stuff that were added to the anime were approved by Hajime Isayama. BTW, Most of the fillers and extra scenes and all are all suggested by Hajime Isayama. In one of the interview with the producers and the director of SNK, they've mentioned how Hajime Isayama wrote a very long and detailed proposals about some of the things he would like to change/add in the anime v.v |
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yuquall said: Well if Isayama himself approved the whole scene then what can we say. Too bad that in a way I feel slightly betrayed and disappointed. I thought she was supposed to be cool but in the end she was made just like any typical sheepishly blushing 16 year old girl once she had dropped all her act?? After what she had been through or done?? No matter what, I can only see her expression not as someone losing her mind but as some slutty girl trying to flirt with some boy she likes. So typical Japanese anime girl. If that's the real her then.. . Such a blow.. Sorry for making such a scene. She's not like that really. More like she just lost the plot and completely snapped right there. End of the line type of thing, you know? |
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Estherella said: HalfMetalJacket said: ^That, or we're just defending the Studio ; D Defending the studio? Not necessary the case. The studio certainly did stuff that were bad but at the same time, they did some pretty amazing stuff owo I'm honestly glad to hear that a lot of these stuff that were added to the anime were approved by Hajime Isayama. BTW, Most of the fillers and extra scenes and all are all suggested by Hajime Isayama. In one of the interview with the producers and the director of SNK, they've mentioned how Hajime Isayama wrote a very long and detailed proposals about some of the things he would like to change/add in the anime v.v We need and 'just joking' font. Hard to detect emotions on the net =\ |
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HalfMetalJacket said: yuquall said: Well if Isayama himself approved the whole scene then what can we say. Too bad that in a way I feel slightly betrayed and disappointed. I thought she was supposed to be cool but in the end she was made just like any typical sheepishly blushing 16 year old girl once she had dropped all her act?? After what she had been through or done?? No matter what, I can only see her expression not as someone losing her mind but as some slutty girl trying to flirt with some boy she likes. So typical Japanese anime girl. If that's the real her then.. . Such a blow.. Sorry for making such a scene. She's not like that really. More like she just lost the plot and completely snapped right there. End of the line type of thing, you know? On the other hand, i'm glad to hear that Annie would be what i thought she's like. I've been perceiving her as someone that's easily engulfed with guilt, regret and sadness since that one scene with the female titan crying so i'm glad to hear that i wasn't wrong about that. That laugh really shows me that she finally lost it. |
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HalfMetalJacket said: Estherella said: HalfMetalJacket said: ^That, or we're just defending the Studio ; D Defending the studio? Not necessary the case. The studio certainly did stuff that were bad but at the same time, they did some pretty amazing stuff owo I'm honestly glad to hear that a lot of these stuff that were added to the anime were approved by Hajime Isayama. BTW, Most of the fillers and extra scenes and all are all suggested by Hajime Isayama. In one of the interview with the producers and the director of SNK, they've mentioned how Hajime Isayama wrote a very long and detailed proposals about some of the things he would like to change/add in the anime v.v We need and 'just joking' font. Hard to detect emotions on the net = Oh! Uh....oops C: Sorry...i'm bad with jokes :c.... |
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yuquall said: Well if Isayama himself approved the whole scene then what can we say. Too bad that in a way I feel slightly betrayed and disappointed. I thought she was supposed to be cool but in the end she was made just like any typical sheepishly blushing 16 year old girl once she had dropped all her act?? After what she had been through or done?? No matter what, I can only see her expression not as someone losing her mind but as some slutty girl trying to flirt with some boy she likes. So typical Japanese anime girl. If that's the real her then.. . Such a blow.. Sorry for making such a scene. Wow, no. I find it kinda sad that you think a character should only have one trait and that blushign is a sign of flirting. I think youve beenw acthing too many japanese cartoons. |
yuquall said: Crochax said: yuquall said: Well if Isayama himself approved the whole scene then what can we say. Too bad that in a way I feel slightly betrayed and disappointed. I thought she was supposed to be cool but in the end she was made just like any typical sheepishly blushing 16 year old girl once she had dropped all her act?? After what she had been through or done?? No matter what, I can only see her expression not as someone losing her mind but as some slutty girl trying to flirt with some boy she likes. So typical Japanese anime girl. If that's the real her then.. . Such a blow.. Sorry for making such a scene. Wow, no. I find it kinda sad that you think a character should only have one trait and that blushign is a sign of flirting. I think youve beenw acthing too many japanese cartoons. Yeah I have been watching too many animes, probably. But I don't think so. Not that I'm complaining how Annie would react nor her character. I get what she is going through, got cornered and all. I'm just disappointed with how they had agreed to portray her in such way. There should've been other way to handle it.. ? Maybe I was expecting something better than this because she is my top fav female character. Hence, the disappointment and betrayal feeling. Just can't help it but to overreact... Like I've been harping on about. If they tone down the whole close, I'll be happier. |
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Crochax said: Wow, no. I find it kinda sad that you think a character should only have one trait and that blushign is a sign of flirting. I think youve beenw acthing too many japanese cartoons. Agreed, mainly because it didn't come across that way at all when I first watched it (it only did when some people started labeling it as such and I ended up forcefully picturing it). As I said, while I had no problems with the depiction of the blushing/laughter, I can understand where HalfMetalJacket is coming from considering the kind of stereotypical depictions we've seen in anime. That said, my point still stands in that such stereotypes shouldn't hinder their decisions and actual intentions in depicting a scene, and the fact that I've read some people actually taking her character more seriously after that laugh, at least it means that Isayama somehow did SOMETHING right (even if just a little) in that regard. yuquall said: HalfMetalJacket said: Like I've been harping on about. If they tone down the whole close, I'll be happier. Let's hope they do. We'll see how it goes, I mean there's still the BD tweaks right? |
yuquall said: I'm just disappointed with how they had agreed to portray her in such way. There should've been other way to handle it.. ? Maybe I was expecting something better than this because she is my top fav female character. Hence, the disappointment and betrayal feeling. Just can't help it but to overreact... Sorry to have misinterpreted you then. I found it kinda over the top, but I, as ronri said, I didn't even think about teeange girl flirting untill you pointed it out. |
ronri said: Crochax said: Wow, no. I find it kinda sad that you think a character should only have one trait and that blushign is a sign of flirting. I think youve beenw acthing too many japanese cartoons. Agreed, mainly because it didn't come across that way at all when I first watched it (it only did when some people started labeling it as such and I ended up forcefully picturing it). As I said, while I had no problems with the depiction of the blushing/laughter, I can understand where HalfMetalJacket is coming from considering the kind of stereotypical depictions we've seen in anime. That said, my point still stands in that such stereotypes shouldn't hinder their decisions and actual intentions in depicting a scene, and the fact that I've read some people actually taking her character more seriously after that laugh, at least it means that Isayama somehow did SOMETHING right (even if just a little) in that regard. yuquall said: HalfMetalJacket said: Like I've been harping on about. If they tone down the whole close, I'll be happier. Let's hope they do. We'll see how it goes, I mean there's still the BD tweaks right? Like Isayama said, "And I thought the anime’s art, production, and performance was SUPER EXCELLENT!! The scene, with its gradual tension, fit my image for it so well that my stomach was churning." I'm still hoping they fix it, but if they take Isayama's critique to heart, then it might not happen D= |
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| Maybe they should have thrown in tears for good measure. Gives us a more 'pained' look to go with her mental breakdown. *Thinks deeply about it* Mmmmmm yeah, verily. |
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yuquall said: HalfMetalJacket said: Maybe they should have thrown in tears for good measure. Gives us a more 'pained' look to go with her mental breakdown. *Thinks deeply about it* Mmmmmm yeah, verily. There should have been according to Isayama's storyboard. Though probably not the same tears you had in your mind, I imagine. Oh no, of course not. Make it happen Studio Wit! |
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| I liked the scene even as a manga reader, it mostly just startled me. I would have preferred if they had kept in the drafted tears, and personally I could have done without the exaggerated blush, but the laugh itself I have no issue with. (Although I still prefer the original scene.) I like Annie. |
DragonCactusSep 16, 2013 11:11 AM
| "Your argument is like a naked banana--it simply lacks appeal." |
| Since everyone is making a fuss about it, I photoshopped the scene for fun lol... v1 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit3_zpsc705b966.jpg V2 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit1_zpse9d7aa8f.jpg v3 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit2_zps5d132f32.jpg |
| I loved every minute of it when poor Annie fans felt so disgusted and betrayed when the infamous laugh came out. Why...? It's simple; because like Annie's friends in the series they were played. Annie is awesome because if she can deceive people who like/love her in both both worlds(anime & reality) then bravo. Well played. |
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yuquall said: kuroikishi said: Since everyone is making a fuss about it, I photoshopped the scene for fun lol... v1 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit3_zpsc705b966.jpg V2 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit1_zpse9d7aa8f.jpg v3 http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b542/kuroganesetsu/annieedit2_zps5d132f32.jpg Wow V1 so some tears really do make a difference!! Now we're talking! They should've done this instead. I like this! Thank you for posting them! Good Job! V2 and V3..er I don't know, they really resemble her in titan's form too much. As happy as I am with the current version, I think that the addition of tears alone would make this scene even better. Janethan23 said: I loved every minute of it when poor Annie fans felt so disgusted and betrayed when the infamous laugh came out. Why...? It's simple; because like Annie's friends in the series they were played. Annie is awesome because if she can deceive people who like/love her in both both worlds(anime & reality) then bravo. Well played. I won't lie, I was one of the people defending the laugh and I slowly found myself overwhelmed by the amount of people that ranted about their dislike for it. Imagine my surprise when Isayama addressed the issue. |
ronriSep 16, 2013 1:42 PM
| I haven't read the manga ver. because I'd rather enjoy it unravel with its epic music, voice acting & animation. To me; I consider the manga releases of almost every anime out there as raw material like a storyboard still being tweaked here and there simply because most of the writers of these manga are operating mostly on a tight schedule and limited space(pages/cells to use) and funding to carry out their intended work. A lot are sometimes cut out or omitted before publishing and these writers compromise some of their work just to make it. I'm glad Hajime Isayama didn't waver in pushing for Annie to be depicted(that laughter) as a real sociopath masquerading as a cool and collected individual everyone thought she was. This proves that some writers really want to change some things they already published but are held back by pressure from fans and publishers who want to hijack and decide how a character & story should go for selfish reasons. |
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Janethan23 said: I'm glad Hajime Isayama didn't waver in pushing for Annie to be depicted(that laughter) as a real sociopath masquerading as a cool and collected individual everyone thought she was. This proves that some writers really want to change some things they already published but are held back by pressure from fans and publishers who want to hijack and decide how a character & story should go for selfish reasons. I disagree on the use of the word "sociopath" especially considering Annie's portrayal of self-awareness towards her guilt/moral responsibility (something that's practically hammered on us across the series) along with Isayama's sincere intentions of using the laughter to humanize her than to make her seem random crazy, and not to mention how such a misused term almost seem null and void when used in a harsh world like that of SNK that's filled with pragmatic individuals. "Psychopath" maybe, but definitely not "sociopath" (it gets to the point of redundancy where even characters like Eren, Mikasa etc. can be called a psychopath given their overall behavior as characters) That said, I'm certainly pleased to see Isayama have such a strong hold over the creative process for the anime adaptation. Admittedly I personally disagree on the notion that manga releases serve as storyboards because really, beyond the fact that the manga often serves as the first iteration of the main canon, they're still two different mediums that account for different factors when being made. Although the idea that manga panels can serve as basis for storyboard is an idea that definitely makes sense, especially when you consider that they're trying to make an adaptation anyway. Prosexema said: Give me break do you seriously like that shit? Annie is a character who never laugh and blush and that scene wasn't a scene who would make anyone character laugh or bless, it was TERRIBLE come on... In the manga is a creepy smile and in the anime is a "yeah baby fuck me" laugh let's be real here. Honest question: Did you even read anything in this thread before posting in it? |
ronriSep 16, 2013 2:14 PM
Prosexema said: Give me break do you seriously like that shit? Annie is a character who never laugh and blush and that scene wasn't a scene who would make anyone character laugh or bless, it was TERRIBLE come on... In the manga is a creepy smile and in the anime is a "yeah baby fuck me" laugh let's be real here. Aww... you poor thing. You got played by Annie too? How cute. Wake up! If Hajime Isayama wants her to be a crazy ass bitch pretending to be a quiet yet gentle soul then let him because what he decides will always be cannon. Bravo Annie! You go girl!! Woot.. woot. You can finally go crazy on these humans with no regrets. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Prosexema said: Janethan23 said: Prosexema said: Give me break do you seriously like that shit? Annie is a character who never laugh and blush and that scene wasn't a scene who would make anyone character laugh or bless, it was TERRIBLE come on... In the manga is a creepy smile and in the anime is a "yeah baby fuck me" laugh let's be real here. Aww... you poor thing. You got played by Annie too? How cute. Wake up! If Hajime Isayama wants her to be a crazy ass bitch pretending to be a quiet yet gentle soul then let him because what he decides will always be cannon. Bravo Annie! You go girl!! Woot.. woot. You can finally go crazy on these humans with no regrets. Oh was sleeping? now i realized it. Time too wake up too. Oh you expose me let's laugh my ass while im blushing I don't get "you got played by Annie too?" part, i guess you fanboyism speaks. kawaiiii. I'll be blunt: you're being painfully ignorant here. If you read any of the earlier posts at all, or even the OP's post, you'll realize that it was the author who pushed for the changes made into the anime and not just something random that the anime added in. |
ronri said: Prosexema said: Janethan23 said: Prosexema said: Give me break do you seriously like that shit? Annie is a character who never laugh and blush and that scene wasn't a scene who would make anyone character laugh or bless, it was TERRIBLE come on... In the manga is a creepy smile and in the anime is a "yeah baby fuck me" laugh let's be real here. Aww... you poor thing. You got played by Annie too? How cute. Wake up! If Hajime Isayama wants her to be a crazy ass bitch pretending to be a quiet yet gentle soul then let him because what he decides will always be cannon. Bravo Annie! You go girl!! Woot.. woot. You can finally go crazy on these humans with no regrets. Oh was sleeping? now i realized it. Time too wake up too. Oh you expose me let's laugh my ass while im blushing I don't get "you got played by Annie too?" part, i guess you fanboyism speaks. kawaiiii. I'll be blunt: you're being painfully ignorant here. If you read any of the earlier posts at all, or even the OP's post, you'll realize that it was the author who pushed for the changes made into the anime and not just something random that the anime added in. Don't bother with this one. He's probably googling who Isayama is. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Prosexema said: I already know that. If you already knew that, then I find it hard to believe that you can easily say that you know Annie's character a lot better than the author (to the point that you thought that the laughter was terribly out of character). Janethan23 said: Don't bother with this one. He's probably googling who Isayama is. No worries, if it gets to the point where talking to them is becoming pointless, I'm definitely gonna stop replying back. |
Prosexema said: Oh shit you have cameras on my room? Calm down tiger. ............I'm pretty calm right here you know. o_O |
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