| After watching most of the second season of Black Lagoon, I wonder about the suffering of children... An excerpt from Brother's Karamazov: Listen! If all must suffer to pay for the eternal harmony, what have children to do with it, tell me, please? It's beyond all comprehension why they should suffer, and why they should pay for the harmony. Why should they, too, furnish material to enrich the soil for the harmony of the future? I understand solidarity in sin among men. I understand solidarity in retribution, too; but there can be no such solidarity with children. And if it is really true that they must share responsibility for all their fathers' crimes, such a truth is not of this world and is beyond my comprehension. Some jester will say, perhaps, that the child would have grown up and have sinned, but you see he didn't grow up, he was torn to pieces by the dogs, at eight years old. Oh, Alyosha, I am not blaspheming! I understand, of course, what an upheaval of the universe it will be when everything in heaven and earth blends in one hymn of praise and everything that lives and has lived cries aloud: 'Thou art just, O Lord, for Thy ways are revealed.' When the mother embraces the fiend who threw her child to the dogs, and all three cry aloud with tears, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' then, of course, the crown of knowledge will be reached and all will be made clear. But what pulls me up here is that I can't accept that harmony. And while I am on earth, I make haste to take my own measures. You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really may happen that if I live to that moment, or rise again to see it, I, too, perhaps, may cry aloud with the rest, looking at the mother embracing the child's torturer, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' but I don't want to cry aloud then. While there is still time, I hasten to protect myself, and so I renounce the higher harmony altogether. It's not worth the tears of that one tortured child who beat itself on the breast with its little fist and prayed in its stinking outhouse, with its unexpiated tears to 'dear, kind God'! It's not worth it, because those tears are unatoned for. They must be atoned for, or there can be no harmony. But how? How are you going to atone for them? Is it possible? By their being avenged? But what do I care for avenging them? What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don't want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price. I don't want the mother to embrace the oppressor who threw her son to the dogs! She dare not forgive him! Let her forgive him for herself, if she will, let her forgive the torturer for the immeasurable suffering of her mother's heart. But the sufferings of her tortured child she has no right to forgive; she dare not forgive the torturer, even if the child were to forgive him! And if that is so, if they dare not forgive, what becomes of harmony? Is there in the whole world a being who would have the right to forgive and could forgive? I don't want harmony. From love for humanity I don't want it. I would rather be left with the unavenged suffering. I would rather remain with my unavenged suffering and unsatisfied indignation, even if I were wrong. Besides, too high a price is asked for harmony; it's beyond our means to pay so much to enter on it. And so I hasten to give back my entrance ticket, and if I am an honest man I am bound to give it back as soon as possible. And that I am doing. It's not God that I don't accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return him the ticket." Why must children suffer for the sins of the parents? |
| Walls of text fail. And children suffer because uncle Bender approves of child abuse. |
| And I thought I had a habit of making huge posts. Despite some popular beliefs, debts do not always die with the debtor, including one's sins. |
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| Oh come on guys, it takes two minutes to read, are everyone's attention spans really that short? Plus it is excellent literature. |
| 1. Bible 2. Someone's gotta pay it |
Curfin said: Oh come on guys, it takes two minutes to read, are everyone's attention spans really that short? Plus it is excellent literature. Actually, I was referring to your initial post pre-edit that wasn't paragraphed. It's incredibly harsh on the eyes to read huge blocks of text, which is why paragraphing exists. |
| Yes I took your advice, it was a pertinent observation. |
Curfin said: I too first saw the pre-edit wall of text.Oh come on guys, it takes two minutes to read, are everyone's attention spans really that short? Plus it is excellent literature. And at times, yes. Sometimes I suspect I'm ADD (my father is), but a psychologist told me long ago I wasn't. Excellent literature is a matter of opinion. |
|
| Huh, I think I made a wrong turn at that black lagoon :wanders off: |
Asako said: Walls of text fail. And children suffer because uncle Bender approves of child abuse. I'm officially joining the Asako fanclub now. And quoting from Dostoevsky is really fucking pretentious and uncalled for. I mean, I've read "Crime and Punishment", "The Brothers Karmazov", and "Notes from the Underground" in their Russian original, but I'll be damned if I'm going to quote half a page of text from there. |
| Well, it is pertinent, it is well written, I simply copied it and did not have to write it all out, and I fail to see how it is pretentious unless it is considered highbrow and snobbish, which in that case it points toward a lack of open-mindedness of the accuser. It is sad that people are more interested in leaving two line comments on social networking sites than truly engaging in a conversation, or would rather have their thought mediated to them through watered down sources. I have nothing against playing around and leaving funny comments, but it would be a shame if things like this are not talked about or referenced. If I think it is something beautiful, why would I not want others to see it? And to argue that this is not the forum for such discussion is a belittlement of all those associated with the site. There is nothing pretentious about it, it is not an arrogant display nor an excluding allusion. Anyone can read the text and judge it for themselves. If you do not wish to participate in such discussions, why deride others for their enthusiasm in such areas? |
| Because most people who like discussing complicated things, including myself, can summarize them in several clear sentences, instead of quoting half a fucking page from classic literature and still not getting to the point. |
ShaolinRibiero said: Asako said: Walls of text fail. And children suffer because uncle Bender approves of child abuse. I'm officially joining the Asako fanclub now. And quoting from Dostoevsky is really fucking pretentious and uncalled for. I mean, I've read "Crime and Punishment", "The Brothers Karmazov", and "Notes from the Underground" in their Russian original, but I'll be damned if I'm going to quote half a page of text from there. ^ Lol Good Point is Good <3 |
Curfin said: It is sad that people are more interested in leaving two line comments on social networking sites than truly engaging in a conversation, or would rather have their thought mediated to them through watered down sources. I have nothing against playing around and leaving funny comments, but it would be a shame if things like this are not talked about or referenced. If I think it is something beautiful, why would I not want others to see it? And to argue that this is not the forum for such discussion is a belittlement of all those associated with the site. There is nothing pretentious about it, it is not an arrogant display nor an excluding allusion. Anyone can read the text and judge it for themselves. If you do not wish to participate in such discussions, why deride others for their enthusiasm in such areas? No offense, old chap, but I can see where they're coming from. Dostoevsky is hardly an accessible read, and most people are going to find it difficult to extract your salient points from a chunk of his work like that. You'd probably get a better reaction if you tried to summarize what is being said in that excerpt. |
| Peace through Superior Firepower! formosan said: Are you using some kind of advanced logic I don't know about? Have you decided to assign new meanings to English words? Are you just intentionally burning a straw man and knowing full well that you're changing the subject and misrepresenting a claim? |
| I liked it when that brother and sister in Black Lagoon Season 2 mutilated all those people and made out on top of their dead corpses... ...that turned me on. |
iloveboobs said: I liked it when that brother and sister in Black Lagoon Season 2 mutilated all those people and made out on top of their dead corpses... ...that turned me on. That sounds hot.. |
ShaolinRibiero said: This. It's an anime board. Summarize the passage and COMPARE it to the anime you sorta name dropped. Or put in the general discussion board. It should still be presented as a conversation, not a block of quotes.Because most people who like discussing complicated things, including myself, can summarize them in several clear sentences, instead of quoting half a fucking page from classic literature and still not getting to the point. |
| Well this turned into a methodological introduction to posting topics instead of a discussion. Fair enough, I will take the advice in the future, but I still refuse to believe it is pretentious, rather I submit to the arguments to offer a comparison (it is still annoying that I should have to spell it out) instead of letting the comparison be drawn out of an allusion. |
| It is not necessary to have sinned in order to suffer. Just because you've sinned doesn't mean you'll suffer. Is vengeance justice, I don't know. Is the suffering of the innocent unjust, perhaps. Why must children suffer the sins of their parents? It is not that they must, rather that they do. It is sad, but that's reality for you. The innocent suffer, and one can hardly think of anyone more innocent than a child. Children do not suffer because of the sins of their parents, unless the sin is the failure of the parents to protect their child from suffering. Is society responsible to prevent the innocent from suffering? I think it should be, and it most often is. Suffering is too high a price to pay in order to achieve harmony. I guess we should all just return God our ticket, but I doubt the suffering will end even then. |
| A past can last a lifetime. How to Read Manga! | AnimeBytes | iMangaScans |
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