| I've seen a few anime with excessive amount of grains. What are they, and what are they for. I remember hearing somewhere that apparently videos with grain supposedly have better quality and have bigger file size and whatnot. Is this true? Or are grains just bad encode? |
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| So basically... Grains = Highest quality and Removing them via fansub encode = reduce file size while sacrificing quality? |
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| Which anime have grains? |
skullkid0 said: Which anime have grains? Like Thora's release of Mardock. |
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| Grains in anime? Never heard of this before. |
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| Do you mean "artifacts"? If so, it might just be a bad encode. I've only noticed them in dark scenes in certain anime. |
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fdsfgs said: Madeline said: Do you mean "artifacts"? If so, it might just be a bad encode. I've only noticed them in dark scenes in certain anime. Nah, I'm pretty sure OP meant film grain. To quote Wikipedia: "Film grain or granularity is the random optical texture of processed photographic film due to the presence of small particles of a metallic silver, or dye clouds, developed from silver halide that have received enough photons. While film grain is a function of such particles (or dye clouds) it is not the same thing as such. It is an optical effect, the magnitude of which (amount of grain) depends on both the film stock and the definition at which it is observed. It can be objectionably noticeable in an over-enlarged photographic film photograph." "Digital photography does not exhibit film grain, since there is no film for any grain to exist within." Anime is not filmed though. |
fdsfgs said: Slyr3do0n said: fdsfgs said: Madeline said: Do you mean "artifacts"? If so, it might just be a bad encode. I've only noticed them in dark scenes in certain anime. Nah, I'm pretty sure OP meant film grain. To quote Wikipedia: "Film grain or granularity is the random optical texture of processed photographic film due to the presence of small particles of a metallic silver, or dye clouds, developed from silver halide that have received enough photons. While film grain is a function of such particles (or dye clouds) it is not the same thing as such. It is an optical effect, the magnitude of which (amount of grain) depends on both the film stock and the definition at which it is observed. It can be objectionably noticeable in an over-enlarged photographic film photograph." "Digital photography does not exhibit film grain, since there is no film for any grain to exist within." Anime is not filmed though. Before the rise of digital anime it used to be composed of animation cells that were shot on 16mm and 35mm film, hence the presence of film grain in older anime. I guess if that's what he's talking about, however: AirStyles said: skullkid0 said: Which anime have grains? Like Thora's release of Mardock. Mardock was made in 2010. |
| Post a screenshot of "grains", because I have no idea wtf you're talking about.. |
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| Something like this They move around like flow of sands. |
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| I think he means when they add the film grain effect to anime, which is sometimes done in flashback/vision/dream sequences. If not, I have no clue what this is about either. |
| Ara ara. |
AirStyles said: skullkid0 said: Which anime have grains? Like Thora's release of Mardock. Yes that troubled me too. Thora basically left the grain because that's how the Blu-Ray is and they don't want to remove anything from how the ones making it wanted it to be. On the other hand even if some kind of detailed might be removed by removing the grain at the same time you get a clearer picture which basically allows you to see more so is removing it really bad? Mardock is absolutely wonderful visually, the artwork, colors and animation is splendid and that makes you wonder if having grain doesn't just ruin the enjoyment of seeing a more clear picture of that artwork and colors. Why did they add so much grain in making it? What exactly did they hope to achieve with adding that? Old films had it because the equipment couldn't do better but Mardock isn't old so it was a directing choice. They wanted it to have grain for some reason but i can't see exactly any artistic benefit in something like Mardock having it. Maybe if it was a gangster anime about the 50's then it would fit the atmosphere but Mardock is a sci-fi, cyperbang work. Why the grain? |
| I happen to like the post-processing grain effect in certain works. Mujun Rasen had a grain effect, which definitely added to the professional theatrical feeling of the movie, as well as the disorientating and discontinuous chronology. |
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Monad said: AirStyles said: skullkid0 said: Which anime have grains? Like Thora's release of Mardock. Yes that troubled me too. Thora basically left the grain because that's how the Blu-Ray is and they don't want to remove anything from how the ones making it wanted it to be. On the other hand even if some kind of detailed might be removed by removing the grain at the same time you get a clearer picture which basically allows you to see more so is removing it really bad? Mardock is absolutely wonderful visually, the artwork, colors and animation is splendid and that makes you wonder if having grain doesn't just ruin the enjoyment of seeing a more clear picture of that artwork and colors. Why did they add so much grain in making it? What exactly did they hope to achieve with adding that? Old films had it because the equipment couldn't do better but Mardock isn't old so it was a directing choice. They wanted it to have grain for some reason but i can't see exactly any artistic benefit in something like Mardock having it. Maybe if it was a gangster anime about the 50's then it would fit the atmosphere but Mardock is a sci-fi, cyperbang work. Why the grain? Despite the video being grainy, I'm actually not the least bit bothered by it. I mean, they don't look so bad. I'm just curious about what they are and why they're there... As well as why some fansub group worked on "removing" them... |
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| Grains are fucking awesome. Why would you want to remove them? AirStyles said: Something like this They move around like flow of sands. |
AirStyles said: Monad said: AirStyles said: skullkid0 said: Which anime have grains? Like Thora's release of Mardock. Yes that troubled me too. Thora basically left the grain because that's how the Blu-Ray is and they don't want to remove anything from how the ones making it wanted it to be. On the other hand even if some kind of detailed might be removed by removing the grain at the same time you get a clearer picture which basically allows you to see more so is removing it really bad? Mardock is absolutely wonderful visually, the artwork, colors and animation is splendid and that makes you wonder if having grain doesn't just ruin the enjoyment of seeing a more clear picture of that artwork and colors. Why did they add so much grain in making it? What exactly did they hope to achieve with adding that? Old films had it because the equipment couldn't do better but Mardock isn't old so it was a directing choice. They wanted it to have grain for some reason but i can't see exactly any artistic benefit in something like Mardock having it. Maybe if it was a gangster anime about the 50's then it would fit the atmosphere but Mardock is a sci-fi, cyperbang work. Why the grain? Despite the video being grainy, I'm actually not the least bit bothered by it. I mean, they don't look so bad. I'm just curious about what they are and why they're there... As well as why some fansub group worked on "removing" them... The doesn't look so bad is a matter of perspective. I mean the thing is wonderful that a little grain won't make it seem bad but whether it's actually bad can only be evaluated if you could compare it with a good no grain version. Watching my DVD's on my old CRT TV didn't look so bad ether but everything is a matter of comparison. Someone like me of course gets a little more distracted by such things because am a visual guy as you can get. Saying my eyesight is perfect is quite the understatement. The last time i tried to buy an HD TV i return back the TV's three times because of things i could see that other couldn't see very easily or just was so minor they could completely ignore and watch without noticing. So that little grain might barely be visible to some but to my eyes is very highly intensively visible especially when is on top of a rather otherwise perfect image like Mardock blu-ray. |
MonadJan 1, 2013 2:29 PM
| What fdsfgs said. Think of old films and older anime. At that time, grains were just there and couldn't be edited out. They're practically a symbol of traditional, hand-done work, and make people giddy with nostalgia. In digital/newer work, however, it's a fake effect added to evoke certain moods and atmospheres. It's typically seen in dreams and flashbacks, like DoctorDoom said. I don't know the anime, but having done a brief search and seeing some trailers/screenshots, Mardock looks really artsy and moody. The grain is most likely an added filter to further push the "look" the makers were going for. Monad said: For "grit" and/or "theatricality," according to some sources. But that's just what they wanted to do. They thought it worked with what they wanted to make. Old films had it because the equipment couldn't do better but Mardock isn't old so it was a directing choice. They wanted it to have grain for some reason but i can't see exactly any artistic benefit in something like Mardock having it. Maybe if it was a gangster anime about the 50's then it would fit the atmosphere but Mardock is a sci-fi, cyperbang work. Why the grain? It seems to be a matter of taste; some people have some issues with it being in newer, cleaner work, which is probably why some sub groups removed it. Off topic: thanks for giving me something to add to my "plan to watch" list, OP. |
fdsfgs said: AirStyles said: As well as why some fansub group worked on "removing" them... I'm curious, what group was this? That was my mistake. I recalled that some fansub group are trying to remove them to reduce file size... But that's just bad memory. More complex animations that contain graining and dark scenes will require higher bitrates, thus larger file sizes. (Said group only talk about grains = larger file size) |
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