| I felt at least two of these Zenins should have had more screentime aside from being killed off in a single episode. |
Laplace_kunJan 24, 9:43 AM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| They were all trash, so it's good they died, but overall, Naobito could have lived longer. I wonder how his duel with Maki would have gone and what his approach to certain situations would have been. He saved her in Shibuya, but during the Zenin massacre, he'd probably side with those creepy dudes. |
| If we are only talking from anime perspective then Jinichi shouldn't be even on the list. Seriously, He was really walking slowing, trying to look menacing and Aura farm while Ranta was fighting for his life bleeding heavy trying to hold maki and the choice of background music just make it worse lol. Atleast in the manga Jinichi didn't waste time and run directly to attack maki and only turned toward Ranta because he was really worried and the expression in his face was clearly that compared to the anime where there is just no expression just white eyes. |
| @E-Satie Well I don't read the manga, but my instincts told me he was one of the more redeemable characters. Thanks for showing the manga perspective. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
None of them are lol. People claim Ranta is the nicest Zenin because of that image Gege supposedly said was canon (even though it’s obviously fake)… This is the actual image, and all it really shows is him being polite to other members of the misogynistic family. |
| Ranta was the only one with good nature, but he still worked to maintain this corrupt system. He was simply misguided. That's why Gege did not got him killed brutally by Maki. You may also add Maki's mother, who was just as a victim as Maki was. |
 |
| Ranta is the only one that seemed "good"... But the fact that he even supports the rest of the clan despite how terrible everyone is very clearly means he's not some innocent kid. |
Reply to humzassgss
I don’t think people realize that Naobito is very similar to Naoya but is just an old man
| @humzassgss True. People seem to forget that he as the clan leader played an active role in holding Maki back from getting a higher rank. If he was actually good he could have changed the clans perspective and ideals. He's also the one who made Naoya like that. Never interrupting any of the bullying and mistreatment of weaker members of the clan. |
 |
| Good Zenins... 1. Mai 2. Maki 3. Toji End of the list |
Alright, on what basis? (don't need one on Maki) |
Laplace_kunJan 25, 5:02 AM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
weezerseyeball1 said: does toji count?? idk they all sucked lol Toji is a damaged guy who hasn't left much room to redeem himself. In degree of coolness, yeah, would have liked more of him. But there's also the very core of this character, he cast it all away. He's Toji Fushiguro, not Toji Zenin. That is the character that has charmed us. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
humzassgss said: I don’t think people realize that Naobito is very similar to Naoya but is just an old man Doesn't feel that way except for the arrogance. Won't mind if you elaborate. As an anime-only, Naobito felt like somebody who has somewhat stopped caring about his clan despite being hard boiled in it's traditionalist values. He doesn't outright hate Maki (even saved her iirc), if there was an equally less powerful individual with him he would treat them likewise. Maki also didn't seem to totally view him in disgust. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Reply to Laplace_kun
Alright, on what basis?
(don't need one on Maki)
| @Laplace_kun Mai is just normal girl who wanted to live in peace. Her family tortured her throughout her childhood but still she just wanted to survive. She didn't have any ambition still followed Maki to JJK high. And when she realised she is holding her back willingly sacrificed her life. Idk how better can a person ever get than this? Toji faced similar struggles in his childhood as them but just straight up left. Honestly he should have done what Maki did but didn't bother. He is a peice of shit who only lives for money but I can't see any fault in that. Money is everything unless you are trampling on someone. Yes killing Riko was cruel but that's it for his wrongs. Several people did way worse in this universe. And despite being shitty father he still tried to provide best for his child even after his death. Yes no idea father but not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins. |
Reply to WaterMage
@Laplace_kun
Mai is just normal girl who wanted to live in peace. Her family tortured her throughout her childhood but still she just wanted to survive. She didn't have any ambition still followed Maki to JJK high. And when she realised she is holding her back willingly sacrificed her life. Idk how better can a person ever get than this?
Toji faced similar struggles in his childhood as them but just straight up left. Honestly he should have done what Maki did but didn't bother. He is a peice of shit who only lives for money but I can't see any fault in that. Money is everything unless you are trampling on someone. Yes killing Riko was cruel but that's it for his wrongs. Several people did way worse in this universe. And despite being shitty father he still tried to provide best for his child even after his death. Yes no idea father but not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins.
Mai is just normal girl who wanted to live in peace. Her family tortured her throughout her childhood but still she just wanted to survive. She didn't have any ambition still followed Maki to JJK high. And when she realised she is holding her back willingly sacrificed her life. Idk how better can a person ever get than this?
Toji faced similar struggles in his childhood as them but just straight up left. Honestly he should have done what Maki did but didn't bother. He is a peice of shit who only lives for money but I can't see any fault in that. Money is everything unless you are trampling on someone. Yes killing Riko was cruel but that's it for his wrongs. Several people did way worse in this universe. And despite being shitty father he still tried to provide best for his child even after his death. Yes no idea father but not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins.
| @WaterMage a lot of Mai's problems stem from her own shitty attitude and inferiority complex, the victim card can be played only so far. Being bitchy to a lot of people doesn't help when you need strong connections. Shitting on Maki while selfishly clinging to her being a salvation. Mai's sin was giving up on life and being bitter about it until she got the opportunity for a perfect redemption through sacrifice. She is 'good' in the sense that she might have been one of the best Zenins in a headcanon where the problems didn't exist for her. I would never consider her to be some paragon of virtue: "Idk how better can a person ever get than this?" That being said, I would have included her in the poll, had I seen even the slightest hints of her going through character growth to make an impact despite her shortcomings; the writing and power system didn't leave any room for that. Her death was constructed as a necessity for the story to continue, as both Mai and Maki dies nevertheless without that happening. ------- Toji was literally a sorcerer slayer for money who does trample on people, he does do things like stepping on noodles and bullying people to submission. He literally attempted to murder 16 yr old Gojo in a grotesque non-clean manner to make a show of himself, abandoned his child for some Zenin perks despite leaving them. He's basically a much more gifted Maki (pre-Perfect Preparation) but with infinitely more devious crashout. I feel his redemption through death was apt. And that was Toji Fushiguro, anyway. And Ig other people would express their facepalm at you disregarding the casual murder of an innocent non-sorcerer 14 year old, I am not doing that. As I see it, Toji was a downhill going tragedy who peaked in his sins in Hiden Inventory/Premature Death. Maybe before that, he had a chance. "not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins" - said other Zenins are barely mentioned feats/records. In fact the names I mentioned here have a "cleaner record" than Toji unless I am missing information. They just didn't have the guts to break out of the system by themselves. |
Laplace_kunJan 25, 9:16 AM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Reply to Avamarie316
the old guy from season 2 with the better frame jutsu wasn't there and didn't die did he?
| @Avamarie316 well unless you haven't started S3... |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Avamarie316 said: oh shit he was the guy who died in bed. wasn't 100 per cent sure if he was by his aura and lazy vibe.my bad. do you read manga also. if you do i have a small question No I don't read it, in fact made this post to see what manga readers think of these disposed characters |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Reply to Laplace_kun
@WaterMage a lot of Mai's problems stem from her own shitty attitude and inferiority complex, the victim card can be played only so far. Being bitchy to a lot of people doesn't help when you need strong connections. Shitting on Maki while selfishly clinging to her being a salvation. Mai's sin was giving up on life and being bitter about it until she got the opportunity for a perfect redemption through sacrifice.
She is 'good' in the sense that she might have been one of the best Zenins in a headcanon where the problems didn't exist for her. I would never consider her to be some paragon of virtue: "Idk how better can a person ever get than this?"
That being said, I would have included her in the poll, had I seen even the slightest hints of her going through character growth to make an impact despite her shortcomings; the writing and power system didn't leave any room for that. Her death was constructed as a necessity for the story to continue, as both Mai and Maki dies nevertheless without that happening.
-------
Toji was literally a sorcerer slayer for money who does trample on people, he does do things like stepping on noodles and bullying people to submission. He literally attempted to murder 16 yr old Gojo in a grotesque non-clean manner to make a show of himself, abandoned his child for some Zenin perks despite leaving them. He's basically a much more gifted Maki (pre-Perfect Preparation) but with infinitely more devious crashout. I feel his redemption through death was apt. And that was Toji Fushiguro, anyway. And Ig other people would express their facepalm at you disregarding the casual murder of an innocent non-sorcerer 14 year old, I am not doing that.
As I see it, Toji was a downhill going tragedy who peaked in his sins in Hiden Inventory/Premature Death. Maybe before that, he had a chance.
"not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins" - said other Zenins are barely mentioned feats/records. In fact the names I mentioned here have a "cleaner record" than Toji unless I am missing information. They just didn't have the guts to break out of the system by themselves.
She is 'good' in the sense that she might have been one of the best Zenins in a headcanon where the problems didn't exist for her. I would never consider her to be some paragon of virtue: "Idk how better can a person ever get than this?"
That being said, I would have included her in the poll, had I seen even the slightest hints of her going through character growth to make an impact despite her shortcomings; the writing and power system didn't leave any room for that. Her death was constructed as a necessity for the story to continue, as both Mai and Maki dies nevertheless without that happening.
-------
Toji was literally a sorcerer slayer for money who does trample on people, he does do things like stepping on noodles and bullying people to submission. He literally attempted to murder 16 yr old Gojo in a grotesque non-clean manner to make a show of himself, abandoned his child for some Zenin perks despite leaving them. He's basically a much more gifted Maki (pre-Perfect Preparation) but with infinitely more devious crashout. I feel his redemption through death was apt. And that was Toji Fushiguro, anyway. And Ig other people would express their facepalm at you disregarding the casual murder of an innocent non-sorcerer 14 year old, I am not doing that.
As I see it, Toji was a downhill going tragedy who peaked in his sins in Hiden Inventory/Premature Death. Maybe before that, he had a chance.
"not bad either specially comparing with other Zenins" - said other Zenins are barely mentioned feats/records. In fact the names I mentioned here have a "cleaner record" than Toji unless I am missing information. They just didn't have the guts to break out of the system by themselves.
| @Laplace_kun you are analyzing way to much into JJK writing and the 2 people you mentioned except Nobito has combined 2-3 min screentime where's the proof they are good better than these two. And speaking of Nobito I don't hate him he did save Maki and others but he is still misogynist and abuser. Now. What's Mai supposed to do? What's wrong with wanting to live peacefully and then how it's good for Maki to disregard your sister for your revenge quest. If you cared that much live as bottom feeder no one would have cared. No one gets a perfect world and gets to live happily specially in a universe where people's live worth shit and 90% cast will just die. I faced injustice whole my life I have every right to be bitchy it's not like I am hurting people. Mai isn't perfect but she is still a great person without her sacrifice Maki would also die.. Now before "it's her fault for being week" just look at yourself you are blaming someone to not want to be strong and live with peace even through struggle. Too much battle shonen has damaged your brain. Now again life matters shit in this universe. How many people died in 2 weeks since Shibuya becz so called lord and saviour Satoru Gojo was casually toying with Mahito gang rather just destroying them. But but plot.. ik But this guy can destroy everyone and still not fall in the real if he was serious which he wasn't. He always underestimated his foes and tried to act cool result is here to see and will be too in future. I won't blame anyone for trying to live shitty live for money. Many sorcerers did it themselves. Toji is a rotten person and it's true without his 2 heroic acts before death he will only be that. But after death he isn't. Also about selling Megumi. With recent info about death of Nobito and promise to Toji when Gojo dies Megumi was supposed to become head of Zenin so if he managed to kill Gojo (which I sure loved to see) he is making her son the future head. So that wa the deal. I really not seeing it as "selling off". Yeah Megumi would rather not stay there but Toji is not doing anything horrible here. He is absent father sure but not a hopeless one. Again it's third class writing of not developing any charcter. I am supposed to believe Ranta is good becz Gege said in back of a manga what kind of bullshit is this🤣🤣 |
| @WaterMage you are analyzing way to much into JJK writing and the 2 people you mentioned except Nobito has combined 2-3 min screentime where's the proof they are good better than these two. I just stated what was directly shown, "analysis" is for JJK nerds. The same thing I am asking you, what's the proof they are worse than these two? And I clearly mentioned why I didn't pick Mai anyway. And speaking of Nobito I don't hate him he did save Maki and others but he is still misogynist and abuser. Good, now show me proofs of him being so called misogynist and abuser. I'll patiently wait. Not that I care for him, but I like to form a concrete idea. No one gets a perfect world and gets to live happily specially in a universe where people's live worth shit and 90% cast will just die. I faced injustice whole my life I have every right to be bitchy it's not like I am hurting people. Very hand wavy collection of words which doesn't form any objective standpoint or usage of actual stuff from the series. Also I didn't ask for meta stuff here. Mai isn't perfect but she is still a great person without her sacrifice Maki would also die.. Haven't got a sniff of this "great" person yet, and without her sacrifice both dies. More painfully. Now before "it's her fault for being week" just look at yourself you are blaming someone to not want to be strong and live with peace even through struggle. Too much battle shonen has damaged your brain. Stop projecting and using typical copypasta braindead replies. Stay on the topic. Or I'll just ignore your pathetic arse. Now again life matters shit in this universe. How many people died in 2 weeks since Shibuya becz so called lord and saviour Satoru Gojo was casually toying with Mahito gang rather just destroying them. But but plot.. ik But this guy can destroy everyone and still not fall in the real if he was serious which he wasn't. He always underestimated his foes and tried to act cool result is here to see and will be too in future. I won't blame anyone for trying to live shitty live for money. Many sorcerers did it themselves. Toji is a rotten person and it's true without his 2 heroic acts before death he will only be that. But after death he isn't. Also about selling Megumi. With recent info about death of Nobito and promise to Toji when Gojo dies Megumi was supposed to become head of Zenin so if he managed to kill Gojo (which I sure loved to see) he is making her son the future head. So that wa the deal. I really not seeing it as "selling off". Yeah Megumi would rather not stay there but Toji is not doing anything horrible here. He is absent father sure but not a hopeless one. Again the meta commentary... this irresponsible guy can also live a peaceful life where he gives 0 fucks, grow a dojo, make big money through athletics, etc. And bam, he didn't. Making the son he abandoned to be the head of a clan that he hated is... big daddy move Ig. Again it's third class writing of not developing any charcter. I am supposed to believe Ranta is good becz Gege said in back of a manga what kind of bullshit is this🤣🤣 I don't care about criticism for now, there are lots who'll do it in my stead. I don't even know what Gege wrote about Ranta before @yasunagaoribe posted it. For now, it's just about an objective assessment of the undeveloped dead characters and whatever we know about them. |
Laplace_kunJan 25, 12:37 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| Ranta seemed like a good guy. |
*kappa* |
Laplace_kun said: Stop projecting and using typical copypasta braindead replies. Stay on the topic. Or I'll just ignore your pathetic arse It's obviously in topic and obviously if you triggered by this then just proves my point all the more... A person can be week by choice. If people don't accept that it's clearly there problem. Laplace_kun said: proofs Everything done to Maki,Mai, Toji?? As a clan head he didn't stopped it's and if not maybe even encountered it. Enough surface level proof there... Laplace_kun said: Also I didn't ask for meta stuff here. So what to say here Mai herself barely got 1 episode worth of screentime and what shown in her backstory is already said above. I still didn't get it what she did wrong not to say she isn't a good person even above these 3. Just because her attitude is bad so she she is bad person? Again the god and saviour of this fandom is a narcissistic asshole so what's wrong here? Laplace_kun said: Again the meta commentary... this irresponsible guy can also live a peaceful life where he gives 0 fucks, grow a dojo, make big money through athletics, etc. And bam, he didn't. Making the son he abandoned to be the head of a clan that he hated is... big daddy move Ig. My point stands killing one innocent girl obviously despicable and I still hate that about him but same applies of millions died in Tokyo that day. And I already said Toji before his death is not a good person only after death. And still he is better than random no impact characters. For all I know Ranta could be rapist and Junichi could also be a mass murderer. There's nothing to prove for and against it. Junichi (alongside Noaya) was absolutely ready to kill Maki Mai and Megumi to help maintain Zenin power. Ranta got 1 min where he accepted the weakness of Zenins but that's it. Toji have 1000 bad deeds and only few good ones but it's still more than 0 to of no impact characters as these. Laplace_kun said: irresponsible guy can also live a peaceful life where he gives 0 fucks, grow a dojo, make big money through Also there is a literally a guy shown in one episode end idk who that tried to make money failed as comedian. Just opening a dojo get money sounds good only on paper. If you are in this buisness you can't leave it. Same happend to Nanami |
WaterMageJan 25, 1:36 PM
| @WaterMage It's obviously in topic and obviously if you triggered by this then just proves my point all the more... you weren't though in that part? You haven't made any point yet, especially in that portion where you were speculating things. Or are you just an egotistical liar? You have said nothing to trigger me, but you can trigger me by wasting time going into uncorrelated rants. A person can be week by choice. If people don't accept that it's clearly there problem. you are still out of topic. And not referring to anything I mentioned. Everything done to Maki,Mai, Toji?? As a clan head he didn't stopped it's and if not maybe even encountered it. Enough surface level proof there... Toji best girl fr fr. Also he was the one Toji approached for his son Megumi and Naobito agreed. And he wasn't even shown to care much for his son Naoya nor his clan, how does being irresponsible for whatever happening to the twins show misogyny? In fact, I would have liked it if you had given the slightest of examples which show his disdain towards women or something. This is superficial beyond surface level... So what to say here Mai herself barely got 1 episode worth of screentime and what shown in her backstory is already said above. I still didn't get it what she did wrong not to say she isn't a good person even above these 3. Just because her attitude is bad so she she is bad person? Again the god and saviour of this fandom is a narcissistic asshole so what's wrong here? First of all, there's a good reason I wrote "good" in quotes. Secondly, I mentioned why Mai isn't in the poll despite me considering her more on the "good" side, so I didn't call her "bad", but she definitely isn't a person to look up to in terms of virtues. Thirdly, it's not simply her attitude, it's her approach towards life. Maki herself pointed it out. She has oscillated between "sister, damn you for not giving up like me" and "sister, destroy it all". And still he is better than random no impact characters. You are replying under the wrong post then. This post is not about better written characters, more screentime characters or bigger impact characters. For all I know Ranta could be rapist and Junichi could also be a mass murderer. There's nothing to prove for and against it. Junichi (alongside Noaya) was absolutely ready to kill Maki Mai and Megumi to help maintain Zenin power. Ranta got 1 min where he accepted the weakness of Zenins but that's it. They both died protecting their clan. I picked Junichi because he was almost set up as an interesting character when he was shown to be calm and smart, instead of being a chauvinist or straight up pathetic guy like Ogi. He was willing to assist Naoya even if he disliked him, just for the clan's better interests. There wasn't even demonstration of jealousy or hunger for power from his side regarding not getting the clan head position for looking ugly. Toji have 1000 bad deeds and only few good ones but it's still more than 0 to of no impact characters as these. By now, you should be realizing what my post is about, so I won't be commenting on this. Toji is in my top 3 characters in JJK currently anyway, but that is going in a different direction. Also there is a literally a guy shown in one episode end idk who that tried to make money failed as comedian. Just opening a dojo get money sounds good only on paper. If you are in this buisness you can't leave it. Same happend to Nanami Extremely poor examples. Nanami has responsibilities and duties. Meanwhile, Toji has liberated himself, even from his family. Being a comedian and just using your gifted body strength are miles apart in terms of execution. |
Laplace_kunJan 25, 2:30 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| @humzassgss wait, in your second para were you talking about Naoya or Naobito? By not caring, I meant Naobito doesn't really support anything happening in the plan nor is he motivated to stop it. He seems full of himself, but I needed to see the asshole side. An example or two will help. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
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