This is one of the biggest television accidents I have ever seen...

Jul 19, 2023 9:26 PM

Philleotardo1954

Offline

Mar 2022

378

Higurashi (2006) is worth it. I’m okay with gou but don’t understand why they did that too keichi and even that didn’t make sense with keichi fighting Rena away with a clock when she had a knife. You’re right I definitely liked Kai and original more

Jul 19, 2023 9:40 PM

#3

certainmiracle

Offline

Jun 2015

1040

I'll be that person and tell you the visual novel's the best way to consume the series, but yes Sotsugou is a huge mess from a storytelling standpoint. No one actually has any idea what went wrong, which imo already started from Gou, not Sotsu. One of the theory's is that Ryukishi07, the original author, either wrote out a rough outline, or the start of Gou's script, and handed it off to the studio to fill in the rest of the story with whatever they want. It sounds plausible, but it's also kinda handwaving Ryukishi's potential involvement in it. No one really expected it to be this bad, which is why everyone's trying to find their own reasons as to why it sucks so hard. Maybe Ryukishi really has just fallen off.

Anyway, I personally liked the story and the way Satoko and Rika were characterized, and I think the way they were both developed this season fits their core personalities. I just think the storytelling was absolutely abhorrent, and the final 2 eps were my favorite (especially Sotsu's final episode) because of the conclusion the two of them come to. It was a really satisfying ending in a vacuum, but didn't feel earned nor did any of the storytelling leading up to it make any coherent thematic sense. They should've focused way more on Satoko, rather than the murder mystery aspect and the multi-character PoV changes involved with it: i.e. all the arcs with Keiichi, Mion, Rena, and their PoV... none of that should've existed, and should've been replaced with Satoko and Rika's trauma and experiences. It's trash.

I personally liked it more than the original, and Kai, but only because it reminded me of the vn more.

Jul 19, 2023 9:48 PM

#4

Saimatsu_Fan

Offline

Sep 2021

1097

oh look another sotsu hater with the same dumb points

Jul 19, 2023 10:12 PM

#5

Apratim

Offline

May 2021

2647

Dante012 said:
Don't mind me, I just need that out of my chest, lol.

I didn't like the original Higurashi series, but I still checked out the remake because I did love the concept and found it had potential. And... I freaking loved it! Gou was a brillant season, although a bit boring at times since we revisit what we already knew (and the SoL parts were already pretty boring in the original...).
Then that brillant twist happened, the flashbacks started... and things got even better! Gou ended at a weird place though, I was concerned the ending would be rushed, until I found out it actually had a sequel, this season, Sotsu. And, again... it was absolutely great!

But the flashbacks drag on, and when we reach the twist, there's only two episodes left... and the show suddenly becomes an ultra-cliché, inconsistent, badly animated shônen anime.

Then the battle ends, plagiarizing Naruto as much as they could because why fkin not, and

and things just end there. So there is absolutely no repercussion, no resolution to the conflict the two seasons had developed.
Worse than that: since we didn't see that loop from the beginning to the end, we have absolutely no idea how these characters reached that point in their story. I assume it's a follow-up to the original true end, but nothing shows it.

I feel like the author had absolutely no idea what to tell after the twist. He had this brillant idea for a sequel, played it out, but didn't know how to go from the twist to the ideal happy ending he wanted for Higurashi.

I mean, seriously, not only did those last two episodes not fit in Higurashi in terms of story or mood, the lack of consequences on the characters just make me wonder: what was the point?

I heard an argument online that Rika isn't really human anymore, which is why she doesn't react a in a logical way. But the thing is, Rika's character is always shown as very humane. We can always relate to her reactions... except in those last two episodes where she doesn't really make sense.

Now I hear this show also ties in with Umineko. I have to admit: I didn't watch nor read this one. But from what I heard, even knowing the tie-ins don't really help that ending.

Worse than that, there WAS a more consistent way to write this season.

First, the flashbacks had to be much shorter. We need enough time to develop the story after the twist, to make that twist more worthwhile.
Then, even though the twist happens, it shouldn't break the concept of the show: Rika should still live through loops. She should still try to survive, despite Satoko's powers. After all, Rika's goal is the exact same: she wants to break out of this loop no matter what. Now the difference is things get harder because Satoko controls the plot of each loop.

We could have a first part where Rika refuses to hurt Satoko. She is her most precious friend after all. Rika is confused, but she knows one thing for certain: she can't hurt Satoko!
Now how do we handle the Slice of Life part of the story when both girls know about each other? Well, both girls act as if nothing had happened in front of their friends, like they have been doing forever. And when they are alone, they argue about their real intentions. Meanwhile, Rika would still try to make things perfect for everyone, and wouldn't try to kill Satoko because, again... that's her best friend!
Satoko, on the contrary, would keep trying to break Rika's spirit. Her goal doesn't change just because Rika is aware of it! Satoko would still try to make Rika fall into dispair, she would still try to make her give up on the idea of leaving. After all, no matter what Rika does, the only way to break out of this loop is to kill Satoko... which Rika refuses to do!

But since Satoko keeps chasing her, Rika eventually realizes she has to fight. She has to accept that Satoko is gone. Because Satoko would never dare hurt Rika, especially not to that extent. At this point, Rika realizes Satoko isn't herself anymore.
The story finally ends with either Rika letting herself die, causing Satoko to break down realizing what she had done, or by Rika killing Satoko in a tragic fight, thus breaking free from this new curse, but paying the heavy cost. She may be free from the loop, but she has to bear her best friend's death with her until her very end.

And if you truly want a happy ending to this, then the only logical option would be to have Rika go to the other dimension and fight the witch's entity instead of Satoko's body ; and in a final fight, Rika would kill the witch, giving Satoko her body back. Then the two girls talk things through in a tearful dialogue. At some point Rika tells Satoko she'll never be able to understand what living through the century of loop feels like, to which Satoko replies she does know, because she went through this century of loops to understand. This is horrific for Rika, but also sweet. Satoko then apologizes, Rika tells her she knows Satoko wasn't really aware, it's a similar situation to the Hinamizawa Syndrome, it's an illness. Then they split up, promising that even though they have to live apart for a few years, they'll still care for each other for all eternity.

See, I feel like Sotsu was a huge waste of potential ; these last two episodes are one of the biggest wastes I've ever seen on television. And given how BRILLANT Gou and the rest of Sotsu were, that's the very definition of an accident, I just don't understand how it happened, lol.
Note that I still find it's worth watching.

Bruh I loved all seasons of Higurashi. And idk what's wrong with people Hating Higurashi Sotsu?? All episodes were literally answer arcs for the question arc presented in Gou. They were showing the other side of picture as how it went and this was so dam interesting!! How people can hate it bruh?

Jul 19, 2023 10:13 PM

#6

Apratim

Offline

May 2021

2647

Saimatsu_Fan said:
oh look another sotsu hater with the same dumb points

Sotsu is literally the answer arc which fans wanted as so many questions were left after gou ended. And sotsu solved all the questions, still these people don't understand 🤦🏻‍♂️

Jul 19, 2023 11:35 PM

#7

Homura24

Offline

May 2020

1434

I still liked sotsu
the ending was a bit meh
but other than that it was still a pretty solid season

Jul 20, 2023 2:24 AM

#8

Dante012

Offline

May 2018

368

@Saimatsu_Fan
Some of you guys need to learn how to read.

Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.

Jul 20, 2023 2:29 AM

#9

Hitagi__Furude

Offline

May 2020

2826

Wait!!!

Theres a sequel to Gou called Sotsu???

I didnt know that!!!

" Kindness can sometimes lead you to trouble. "

Jul 20, 2023 2:33 AM

#10

Dante012

Offline

May 2018

368

Hitagi__Furude said:
Wait!!!

Theres a sequel to Gou called Sotsu???

I didnt know that!!!

You just found it out? I don't blame you, I had no idea it existed too until I suddenly heard about it. I think it didn't make a lot of noise when it was released, unlike Gou.
It's basically the "answer arc" of Gou. It's a great season, aside from the last two episodes. I hope you didn't read my comment too much if you haven't seen it yet ^^'.

Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.

Jul 20, 2023 10:40 AM

#11

Bijou146

Offline

Dec 2021

1739

Dante012 said:
Don't mind me, I just need that out of my chest, lol.

I didn't like the original Higurashi series, but I still checked out the remake because I did love the concept and found it had potential. And... I freaking loved it! Gou was a brillant season, although a bit boring at times since we revisit what we already knew (and the SoL parts were already pretty boring in the original...).
Then that brillant twist happened, the flashbacks started... and things got even better! Gou ended at a weird place though, I was concerned the ending would be rushed, until I found out it actually had a sequel, this season, Sotsu. And, again... it was absolutely great!

But the flashbacks drag on, and when we reach the twist, there's only two episodes left... and the show suddenly becomes an ultra-cliché, inconsistent, badly animated shônen anime.

Then the battle ends, plagiarizing Naruto as much as they could because why fkin not, and

and things just end there. So there is absolutely no repercussion, no resolution to the conflict the two seasons had developed.
Worse than that: since we didn't see that loop from the beginning to the end, we have absolutely no idea how these characters reached that point in their story. I assume it's a follow-up to the original true end, but nothing shows it.

I feel like the author had absolutely no idea what to tell after the twist. He had this brillant idea for a sequel, played it out, but didn't know how to go from the twist to the ideal happy ending he wanted for Higurashi.

I mean, seriously, not only did those last two episodes not fit in Higurashi in terms of story or mood, the lack of consequences on the characters just make me wonder: what was the point?

I heard an argument online that Rika isn't really human anymore, which is why she doesn't react a in a logical way. But the thing is, Rika's character is always shown as very humane. We can always relate to her reactions... except in those last two episodes where she doesn't really make sense.

Now I hear this show also ties in with Umineko. I have to admit: I didn't watch nor read this one. But from what I heard, even knowing the tie-ins don't really help that ending.

Worse than that, there WAS a more consistent way to write this season.

First, the flashbacks had to be much shorter. We need enough time to develop the story after the twist, to make that twist more worthwhile.
Then, even though the twist happens, it shouldn't break the concept of the show: Rika should still live through loops. She should still try to survive, despite Satoko's powers. After all, Rika's goal is the exact same: she wants to break out of this loop no matter what. Now the difference is things get harder because Satoko controls the plot of each loop.

We could have a first part where Rika refuses to hurt Satoko. She is her most precious friend after all. Rika is confused, but she knows one thing for certain: she can't hurt Satoko!
Now how do we handle the Slice of Life part of the story when both girls know about each other? Well, both girls act as if nothing had happened in front of their friends, like they have been doing forever. And when they are alone, they argue about their real intentions. Meanwhile, Rika would still try to make things perfect for everyone, and wouldn't try to kill Satoko because, again... that's her best friend!
Satoko, on the contrary, would keep trying to break Rika's spirit. Her goal doesn't change just because Rika is aware of it! Satoko would still try to make Rika fall into dispair, she would still try to make her give up on the idea of leaving. After all, no matter what Rika does, the only way to break out of this loop is to kill Satoko... which Rika refuses to do!

But since Satoko keeps chasing her, Rika eventually realizes she has to fight. She has to accept that Satoko is gone. Because Satoko would never dare hurt Rika, especially not to that extent. At this point, Rika realizes Satoko isn't herself anymore.
The story finally ends with either Rika letting herself die, causing Satoko to break down realizing what she had done, or by Rika killing Satoko in a tragic fight, thus breaking free from this new curse, but paying the heavy cost. She may be free from the loop, but she has to bear her best friend's death with her until her very end.

And if you truly want a happy ending to this, then the only logical option would be to have Rika go to the other dimension and fight the witch's entity instead of Satoko's body ; and in a final fight, Rika would kill the witch, giving Satoko her body back. Then the two girls talk things through in a tearful dialogue. At some point Rika tells Satoko she'll never be able to understand what living through the century of loop feels like, to which Satoko replies she does know, because she went through this century of loops to understand. This is horrific for Rika, but also sweet. Satoko then apologizes, Rika tells her she knows Satoko wasn't really aware, it's a similar situation to the Hinamizawa Syndrome, it's an illness. Then they split up, promising that even though they have to live apart for a few years, they'll still care for each other for all eternity.

See, I feel like Sotsu was a huge waste of potential ; these last two episodes are one of the biggest wastes I've ever seen on television. And given how BRILLANT Gou and the rest of Sotsu were, that's the very definition of an accident, I just don't understand how it happened, lol.
Note that I still find it's worth watching.

You should read Higurashi no Naku Koro ni: Meguri, it's so much better than Gou and Sotsu

Jul 20, 2023 5:02 PM

#12

IceCreamScene

Offline

May 2020

96

Apratim said:

Saimatsu_Fan said:
oh look another sotsu hater with the same dumb points

Sotsu is literally the answer arc which fans wanted as so many questions were left after gou ended. And sotsu solved all the questions, still these people don't understand 🤦🏻‍♂️

we just gonna ignore the poor pacing, lazily rehashed story, poor character motivation, the desensitisation of blood, lazy villain, absolute laughable final fight scene (both between rika x satoko and with Hanyuu x Eua) and the fact that literally nothing changes in their relationship when all's said and done???????
Don't get me wrong you are entitled to like the show but please acknowledge that it isn't good.

Jul 20, 2023 10:18 PM

#13

Saimatsu_Fan

Offline

Sep 2021

1097

Dante012 said:
@Saimatsu_Fan
Some of you guys need to learn how to read.

you can also learn that, ngl

Jul 20, 2023 10:20 PM

#14

Saimatsu_Fan

Offline

Sep 2021

1097

IceCreamScene said:

Apratim said:

Sotsu is literally the answer arc which fans wanted as so many questions were left after gou ended. And sotsu solved all the questions, still these people don't understand 🤦🏻‍♂️

we just gonna ignore the poor pacing, lazily rehashed story, poor character motivation, the desensitisation of blood, lazy villain, absolute laughable final fight scene (both between rika x satoko and with Hanyuu x Eua) and the fact that literally nothing changes in their relationship when all's said and done???????
Don't get me wrong you are entitled to like the show but please acknowledge that it isn't good.

crazy how none of these are true

Jul 20, 2023 10:44 PM

#15

Apratim

Offline

May 2021

2647

IceCreamScene said:

Apratim said:

Sotsu is literally the answer arc which fans wanted as so many questions were left after gou ended. And sotsu solved all the questions, still these people don't understand 🤦🏻‍♂️

we just gonna ignore the poor pacing, lazily rehashed story, poor character motivation, the desensitisation of blood, lazy villain, absolute laughable final fight scene (both between rika x satoko and with Hanyuu x Eua) and the fact that literally nothing changes in their relationship when all's said and done???????
Don't get me wrong you are entitled to like the show but please acknowledge that it isn't good.

I never felt bored I loved it. But ya that final fight like Dragon Ball and other shounem was kinda stupid and not like Higurashi at all 😂. I also wanted Satoko to die but she didn't. There were some flaws at end but it's not like it was so bad as people claim. Ending was also good, the character's deserve happiness after all that shit they went through and satoko regained her self and witch part hibernated Or something.

Jul 21, 2023 11:08 AM

#16

Dante012

Offline

May 2018

368

@Saimatsu_Fan : Speech 0...
Unlike you, I didn't prove that I hadn't read the comment I was replying to. You called me a hater, even though I said THREE TIMES in my original comment that I loved Sotsu. You can't read.

Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.

Jul 21, 2023 11:16 PM

#17

Saimatsu_Fan

Offline

Sep 2021

1097

Dante012 said:
@Saimatsu_Fan : Speech 0...
Unlike you, I didn't prove that I hadn't read the comment I was replying to. You called me a hater, even though I said THREE TIMES in my original comment that I loved Sotsu. You can't read.

funny saying this considering how you talked about it

Jul 24, 2023 5:06 AM

#18

Dante012

Offline

May 2018

368

@Saimatsu_Fan: Again: learn to freaking read.

Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.

Jul 25, 2023 12:28 AM

#19

Saimatsu_Fan

Offline

Sep 2021

1097

Dante012 said:
@Saimatsu_Fan: Again: learn to freaking read.

same thing to you buddy

Aug 23, 2023 9:51 AM

#20

IceCreamScene

Offline

May 2020

96

Saimatsu_Fan said:

IceCreamScene said:

we just gonna ignore the poor pacing, lazily rehashed story, poor character motivation, the desensitisation of blood, lazy villain, absolute laughable final fight scene (both between rika x satoko and with Hanyuu x Eua) and the fact that literally nothing changes in their relationship when all's said and done???????
Don't get me wrong you are entitled to like the show but please acknowledge that it isn't good.

crazy how none of these are true

Can you actually debunk my points instead of simply stating that they're false, PLEASE

Aug 23, 2023 10:27 PM

#21

Dumb

Online

Jun 2020

4163

I’m not a big fan of higurashi like I was when this first came out, but I found this season horrible. The first 13 episodes were pointless and could have been shown in the time span of like 5 episodes. I remember there was one episode where Hanyuu was half naked, bondaged up, and forced to watch Satoko gruesomely kill Rika. That just felt like a torture ero anime, gross.

The references made were also pointless. Why bring Featherine into the mix and reference Ciconia if that’s going to be a dead project and there were no further connections than that? Either make a solid connection to Umineko or don’t do it at all.

Higurashi 2006 and Kai were all about friendship and talking your issues out, but Gou and Sotsu just shat on that message and made every other character besides Rika and Satoko irrelevant. Not to mention that even the author didn’t know what their relationship was supposed to be, just that it had to be complex in some way. So all that focus on them was just useless, just so that we can hear them call each other witches one time 🙄

Aug 24, 2023 9:00 AM

#22

Dante012

Offline

May 2018

368

@Jailed: The flashbacks in Sotsu definitely should have been 5 episodes. I wouldn't say they were pointless though: they responded to every mystery Gou brought up. That's how the original series went out too: there was the "questions arc" and the "answers arc". Gou/Sotsu does the same thing.

The main cast is definitely underused in Sotsu, but I'll argue it was the exact same issue with the original series. In the second season, even though everyone is technically here, no one is really useful outside Rika.
And in fact, that's a major problem with Visual Novels as a whole: as they like to have parallel stories centered around each character, many characters end up transparent outside their own story. Even Fate suffers from it, as some characters are useless in some routes.

I think the new series kept the friendship theme. But the way it was handled was, eh... weird.

Everything changes. Even the happy and funny things eventually disappear. How can I still enjoy this place then?
- Furukawa Nagisa (Clannad)

You have to make a choice. Either you give up on your soul for the sake of science, or you give up on science to save your soul. In my case, the soul was already in pieces.
- Lloyd Asplund (Code Geass)

Do you understand the meaning behind Nunnaly's smile? She can't see or walk. So there are things in this world that she knows she can't do alone. Her smile... is her only way to show gratitude.
- Lelouch Vi Britannia (Code Geass)

Death is part of Life.
- ... Me.

Aug 24, 2023 5:55 PM

#23

Dumb

Online

Jun 2020

4163

@Dante012 These answer arcs were very different from the originals though. In 2006/Kai, the only identical answer arc was Shion’s and even that expanded upon a lot of important things like Mion’s family and their bunker. Rena’s and Rika’s answer arcs were entirely different types of worlds while still finding a clever way to give answers to the mysteries of previous worlds, and managed to expand upon Rena’s family and Rika’s abilities. The answer arcs in Sotsu were just recaps, there was no mystery being solved except answering when Satoko stabbed her friends with L5 syndrome. I guess her uncle’s redemption was pretty interesting, even if I don’t like it.

In the original show, Keiichi still felt very important. He gave Rika a lot of hope to break through the cycle. But I agree that everyone else felt underused especially in the final arc, but at least they got to shine in their own answer arcs when that was still new. In Sotsu answer arcs, especially because they’re the same as the Gou question arcs, the character feel very robotic and don’t shine like they got to in Kai.

As a side note, I hated the comical overuse of blood in Gou and Sotsu. Felt like it was trying to be gorey for the sake of it, when original higurashi was never about gore, people just associated it for no reason. But in Gou and Sotsu, there is so much blood that it doesn’t even feel real

Dec 18, 4:47 AM

#24

ayynat

Offline

Sep 2021

15

Problem with Sotsu for me was that even though they were answer arcs they felt stagnant and at times tedious to get through. In the original series, going through the answer arcs, It still wanted you to think about what was going. For me that kept it interesting and engaging. Sotsu kinda just gives you the answers, and you kinda just gotta sit and wait to get back where Gou left off since you can already infer the answers.

Honestly, I wonder if they hadn't put that end scene in Gou maybe everyone would like have Sotsu more lol.

Poll: » Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Sotsu Episode 14 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Stark700 - Sep 23, 2021	398	by susisa_tagumpay »» Dec 11, 9:36 AM
Poll: » Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Sotsu Episode 15 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) Stark700 - Sep 30, 2021	414	by Bullard »» Dec 5, 2:11 PM
Poll: » Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Sotsu Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 ) Stark700 - Aug 26, 2021	117	by bananachips »» Oct 17, 12:20 PM
» Higurashi’s characters bananachips - Oct 14	11	by Saimatsu_Fan »» Oct 15, 7:08 PM
Poll: » Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Sotsu Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 ) Stark700 - Aug 12, 2021	161	by Tennouji »» Oct 11, 9:12 AM

This is one of the biggest television accidents I have ever seen...

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