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May 30, 2024 9:36 PM
#1

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Feb 2016
14764
I believe the MAL database will be more reliable if scores are NOT influenced by the number of votes a title has, assuming it has the minimum votes needed for a score. When obscure entries were more susceptible to bots and trolls, weighted scores were expected to minimize that impact. Now that MAL has a new method of countering illegitimate votes, there is no more need for the original formula. It only serves to lower the scores of unpopular anime, making them look worse than they are.
LucifrostJun 5, 2024 7:57 AM
その目だれの目?
Jun 2, 2024 9:58 PM
#2

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Jan 2017
6537
Lucifrost said:
All 5 of the entries in the "most obscure" section of my profile has a score below 7, and not a single one has been scored by over 1,000 users.


And what's the score distribution ?

The algorithm itself is fair. It's even a weighted based one, made to be fairer than the average one, which is exactly why it's used in almost every site proposing a ranking. The problem comes from the mentality of the people ratings entries.

You'll see more 10/10 scores on popular entries that you'll do on obscure one, because those who goes deep to find these obscures entries won't rate the same way as someone who's only looking at the mainstream entries. Trying to do something about that will straight up be manipulation, and be inequitable.
"Genius lives only one story above madness."
– Arthur Schopenhauer.

"Stupidity is a talent for misconception."
– Edgar Allan Poe.

"I'm tired... and hungry."
– Alexioos95.
Jun 3, 2024 11:31 AM
#3

Offline
Jul 2016
501
That's because the site uses weighted score based on popularity to prevent trolls scores from affecting the top shows list. (like it happened with https://myanimelist.net/anime/36259/Pingu_in_the_City/stats and https://myanimelist.net/anime/40010/Ishuzoku_Reviewers/stats)


this means that a show with a number of user's score much higher than the required minimum for the site to calculate the its score will be very similar to its normal mean,

Whereas a show with a number of user's scores closer to the required minimum for the site to calculate its score will be very similar to the mean score across the entire database

scores equation
https://myanimelist.net/info.php?go=topanime
Jun 3, 2024 12:16 PM
#4
Offline
Aug 2016
78
To answer the question of whether the algorithm is "fair", we need to look at what the algorithm actually does, and MAL has helpfully provided a full explanation:

https://myanimelist.net/info.php?go=topanime
All scores given in the database are calculated as a weighted score.

Weighted Score = (v / (v + m)) * S + (m / (v + m)) * C
S = Average score for the anime/manga
v = Number users giving a score for the anime/manga †
m = Minimum number of scored users required to get a calculated score
C = The mean score across the entire Anime/Manga database

† Note that v does not correspond to the "number of scored users" as seen on the database page. Scores from users who have not viewed 1/5 of the series upon its completion are not included. Scores given from illegitimate accounts created to sway votes are also not included in the scoring algorithm.

Not Yet Aired entries have no score and will display N/A. Entries that do not meet the minimum number of scored users will also not display a calculated score.


To quickly explain the formula: The weighted score is composed of two components: The average score of the anime and the mean score of all anime in the database. These are weighted by how many users have scored the anime. The more users have scored a show, the larger the weighting for the anime's own score is, and the less it is "corrected" by the database score.

There are some intransparent parts; we don't know how illegitimate accounts are filtered, but if we knew they'd just avoid the filter. We don't have an easy way of extracting all scores used for calculation as some are from private lists, and some in the statistics section of a show may not be counted due to being illegitimate or not included because of the 1/5 rule. We also don't have a solid number of the database's mean score as far as I know.

But now to put some numbers to this formula:
The minimum number used to be 50, but my understanding is that it has been raised to something in the range of 100.
The mean score of all titles is in the range of 6.3-6.5 according to numbers I've seen thrown around. I'll use 6.4.
So let's calculate a score or two with these approximate numbers.

Anime X has 1000 users and an average score between them of 7.00. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(1000/(1000+100)) * 7.00 + (100/(1000+100)) * 6.40 = 6.3636... + 0.58181... = 6.94545... = 6.95

Anime Y has 400 users and an average score of 5.50. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(400/(400+100)) * 5.50 + (100/(400+100)) * 6.40 = 4.4 + 1.28 = 5.68

Anime Z has 1,000,000 users and an average score of 7.91. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(1000000/(1000000+100)) * 7.91 + (100/(1000000+100)) * 6.40 = 7,90920907... + 0,00063993600... = 7,909849015... = 7,91

So the MAL formula does pull shows up or down towards the average. But as you can see the effect is relatively minor, to the point of imperceptibility on the very big shows; this is all intentional of course.

Is this unfair? No, it simply accounts for the small sample size of scores and basically prevents a show from being pushed super high or low with very few votes, as that would not be representative of the community opinion (if such a thing even exists for a show that 300 people have watched).

I think that the main factor behind obscure shows generally being rated lower is what Alexioos has mentioned: Different people score differently, and thus not all scores are created equal, as such a thing would be impossible given how people watch anime and what anime they watch (it could only work if everyone scored every show, or the opposite extreme, only the shows that everyone has scored get rated).
Another factor is that many shows are niche for a reason. They often do not have a wide appeal, so you shouldn't expect them to get big scores from everyone who watches them, even if they're great shows in your eyes.
Jun 3, 2024 12:20 PM
#5

Offline
Jan 2017
6537


These are different cases tho.

Weighted scores are used instead of the average ones, to avoid having an obscure entry with a single user who rated it 10/10 skyrocketed to #1.
Pingu in the City and Ishuzoku Reviewers were bombarded via bots and vote brigading/raids, and were countered with the illegitimate account detection algorithm.
"Genius lives only one story above madness."
– Arthur Schopenhauer.

"Stupidity is a talent for misconception."
– Edgar Allan Poe.

"I'm tired... and hungry."
– Alexioos95.
Jun 3, 2024 2:01 PM
#6

Offline
Jul 2016
501
Reply to Alexioos95


These are different cases tho.

Weighted scores are used instead of the average ones, to avoid having an obscure entry with a single user who rated it 10/10 skyrocketed to #1.
Pingu in the City and Ishuzoku Reviewers were bombarded via bots and vote brigading/raids, and were countered with the illegitimate account detection algorithm.


My bad, I thought the amount of users' scores, required for a show to be rated was higher and played a role in preventing trolls from inflating scores. But if its just 100 like Darkerplayer said it really doesn't change much


For show when a mean of 8.00 with

500 users' scores, Its weighted MAL score is
(500/(500+100)) * 8.00 + (100/(500+100)) * 6.40 ≈ 7.73


1 000 users' scores, Its weighted MAL score is
(1000/(1000+100)) * 8.00 + (100/(1000+100)) * 6.40 ≈ 7.85


10 000 users' scores, Its weighted MAL score is
(10 000/(10 000+100)) * 8.00 + (100/(10 000+100)) * 6.40 ≈ 7.98


100 000 users' scores, Its weighted MAL score is
(100 000/(100 000+100)) * 8.00 + (100/(100 000+100)) * 6.40 ≈ 8.00


Basically anything with over 10 000 users is barely unaffected by the weighted score



So for a show to have less than 7.00 it's because it has already a low users' mean score to begin with.

Jun 3, 2024 2:41 PM
#7

Offline
Feb 2016
14764
Reply to Darkonius
To answer the question of whether the algorithm is "fair", we need to look at what the algorithm actually does, and MAL has helpfully provided a full explanation:

https://myanimelist.net/info.php?go=topanime
All scores given in the database are calculated as a weighted score.

Weighted Score = (v / (v + m)) * S + (m / (v + m)) * C
S = Average score for the anime/manga
v = Number users giving a score for the anime/manga †
m = Minimum number of scored users required to get a calculated score
C = The mean score across the entire Anime/Manga database

† Note that v does not correspond to the "number of scored users" as seen on the database page. Scores from users who have not viewed 1/5 of the series upon its completion are not included. Scores given from illegitimate accounts created to sway votes are also not included in the scoring algorithm.

Not Yet Aired entries have no score and will display N/A. Entries that do not meet the minimum number of scored users will also not display a calculated score.


To quickly explain the formula: The weighted score is composed of two components: The average score of the anime and the mean score of all anime in the database. These are weighted by how many users have scored the anime. The more users have scored a show, the larger the weighting for the anime's own score is, and the less it is "corrected" by the database score.

There are some intransparent parts; we don't know how illegitimate accounts are filtered, but if we knew they'd just avoid the filter. We don't have an easy way of extracting all scores used for calculation as some are from private lists, and some in the statistics section of a show may not be counted due to being illegitimate or not included because of the 1/5 rule. We also don't have a solid number of the database's mean score as far as I know.

But now to put some numbers to this formula:
The minimum number used to be 50, but my understanding is that it has been raised to something in the range of 100.
The mean score of all titles is in the range of 6.3-6.5 according to numbers I've seen thrown around. I'll use 6.4.
So let's calculate a score or two with these approximate numbers.

Anime X has 1000 users and an average score between them of 7.00. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(1000/(1000+100)) * 7.00 + (100/(1000+100)) * 6.40 = 6.3636... + 0.58181... = 6.94545... = 6.95

Anime Y has 400 users and an average score of 5.50. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(400/(400+100)) * 5.50 + (100/(400+100)) * 6.40 = 4.4 + 1.28 = 5.68

Anime Z has 1,000,000 users and an average score of 7.91. Its weighted MAL score is thus:
(1000000/(1000000+100)) * 7.91 + (100/(1000000+100)) * 6.40 = 7,90920907... + 0,00063993600... = 7,909849015... = 7,91

So the MAL formula does pull shows up or down towards the average. But as you can see the effect is relatively minor, to the point of imperceptibility on the very big shows; this is all intentional of course.

Is this unfair? No, it simply accounts for the small sample size of scores and basically prevents a show from being pushed super high or low with very few votes, as that would not be representative of the community opinion (if such a thing even exists for a show that 300 people have watched).

I think that the main factor behind obscure shows generally being rated lower is what Alexioos has mentioned: Different people score differently, and thus not all scores are created equal, as such a thing would be impossible given how people watch anime and what anime they watch (it could only work if everyone scored every show, or the opposite extreme, only the shows that everyone has scored get rated).
Another factor is that many shows are niche for a reason. They often do not have a wide appeal, so you shouldn't expect them to get big scores from everyone who watches them, even if they're great shows in your eyes.
Darkerplayer said:
Another factor is that many shows are niche for a reason. They often do not have a wide appeal, so you shouldn't expect them to get big scores from everyone who watches them, even if they're great shows in your eyes.

I do understand this, but they're not always niche for a good reason. An untranslated title, for example, can't be watched even by those users who are likely to rate it highly.
その目だれの目?
Jun 3, 2024 2:42 PM
#8
Offline
Jul 2021
12
That's because MAL uses "weighted score"
ngl, I find it very stupid.
Jun 3, 2024 3:08 PM
#9
Offline
Aug 2016
78
Reply to Lucifrost
Darkerplayer said:
Another factor is that many shows are niche for a reason. They often do not have a wide appeal, so you shouldn't expect them to get big scores from everyone who watches them, even if they're great shows in your eyes.

I do understand this, but they're not always niche for a good reason. An untranslated title, for example, can't be watched even by those users who are likely to rate it highly.
@Lucifrost
That's why I said many. There certainly are titles that are great but untranslated, and thus much less available to interested users. That doesn't mean that this is always the case, and not being translated is not an insurmountable wall (as you can just learn Japanese - which will also help with many shows that are "translated" but the subs are gibberish, which has happened a lot over the years, thanks to bad fansubs, bad 90s dubtitles, bootleg DVDs, or even official Engrish subtitles from Japan, which is a big factor in some shows' bad reputation).
And, from a translator's perspective, it can be said that a lot of the titles that are untranslated are untranslated for a reason. If licensors or fansubbers think a show is no good (or way too niche), they won't pick it up. The anime that do get translated officially and unofficially are thus already pre-sorted through these instances, even if these filters aren't always to our liking.

In any case, this has nothing to do with MAL's scoring algorithm, it's entirely beyond the algorithm's power. The "underrating" of such titles is nothing MAL can solve, it's simply a consequence of how the world is.

Jun 3, 2024 7:24 PM
因果導体

Offline
Sep 2021
1610
The algorithm is fair, the problem here lies in the user's fairness ourselves.
Jun 5, 2024 8:04 AM

Offline
Feb 2016
14764
Reply to Alexioos95
Lucifrost said:
All 5 of the entries in the "most obscure" section of my profile has a score below 7, and not a single one has been scored by over 1,000 users.


And what's the score distribution ?

The algorithm itself is fair. It's even a weighted based one, made to be fairer than the average one, which is exactly why it's used in almost every site proposing a ranking. The problem comes from the mentality of the people ratings entries.

You'll see more 10/10 scores on popular entries that you'll do on obscure one, because those who goes deep to find these obscures entries won't rate the same way as someone who's only looking at the mainstream entries. Trying to do something about that will straight up be manipulation, and be inequitable.
Alexioos95 said:
The algorithm itself is fair. It's even a weighted based one, made to be fairer than the average one, which is exactly why it's used in almost every site proposing a ranking. The problem comes from the mentality of the people ratings entries.

You have no proof a weighted system is more fair. VNDB no longer uses one for titles with over 100 votes. I have rewritten the OP with a straightforward suggestion based on my newfound thoughts.
その目だれの目?
Jun 5, 2024 9:52 AM

Offline
Jan 2017
6537
Lucifrost said:
You have no proof a weighted system is more fair.


True.

We would need to compare the factual stats between an average and a weighted system, which is not truthfully possible on MAL due to the stats given to us containing the illegitimate accounts. Logically speaking, the weighted one should be more fair tho, which explain why it's used everywhere.

Lucifrost said:
VNDB no longer uses one for titles with over 100 votes.


I'm not really familiar with vndb and their system, but looking at the site, the most popular entry is Saya no Uta with 17067 votes... with only this much votes, the threshold of 100 is 0.5% at the strict maximum, which is absolutely tremendous. (In comparison, it is 0.0035% on MAL, also at maximum.) That means the shift in score due to the weighted system will also be at that level...

Applying the system to only unpopular entries seems very weird tho... but as i'm not very good at maths or knowledgeable about such datas, and that i don't know their exact calculation, i'll just let someone else talk about that.

Lucifrost said:
I have rewritten the OP with a straightforward suggestion based on my newfound thoughts.


The weighted system is not done to counter trolls and bots tho. It's really just because a score made of the ratings from thousand of peoples is more trustful than one being made from only a single rating (or in the case of MAL, less than 100).

As pointed out by Darkerplayer above, the weighted system has almost no impact on very popular entries, and with the actual distributions of ratings on the less popular ones, these ones lose only a few 0.01 points. Only a handful entries gets degraded through the system, and as i've seen it, it is always a newly released entry of a very popular franchise (especially Movies, as they are, most of the time, not available quickly).

Edit : Even with illegitimate accounts counted, you can try to make a comparison between an average and weighted score of a random entry tho. That may show you the very little bit of difference it does on most entry.
Alexioos95Jun 5, 2024 9:58 AM
"Genius lives only one story above madness."
– Arthur Schopenhauer.

"Stupidity is a talent for misconception."
– Edgar Allan Poe.

"I'm tired... and hungry."
– Alexioos95.
Jun 5, 2024 10:37 AM

Offline
Feb 2016
14764
Reply to Alexioos95
Lucifrost said:
You have no proof a weighted system is more fair.


True.

We would need to compare the factual stats between an average and a weighted system, which is not truthfully possible on MAL due to the stats given to us containing the illegitimate accounts. Logically speaking, the weighted one should be more fair tho, which explain why it's used everywhere.

Lucifrost said:
VNDB no longer uses one for titles with over 100 votes.


I'm not really familiar with vndb and their system, but looking at the site, the most popular entry is Saya no Uta with 17067 votes... with only this much votes, the threshold of 100 is 0.5% at the strict maximum, which is absolutely tremendous. (In comparison, it is 0.0035% on MAL, also at maximum.) That means the shift in score due to the weighted system will also be at that level...

Applying the system to only unpopular entries seems very weird tho... but as i'm not very good at maths or knowledgeable about such datas, and that i don't know their exact calculation, i'll just let someone else talk about that.

Lucifrost said:
I have rewritten the OP with a straightforward suggestion based on my newfound thoughts.


The weighted system is not done to counter trolls and bots tho. It's really just because a score made of the ratings from thousand of peoples is more trustful than one being made from only a single rating (or in the case of MAL, less than 100).

As pointed out by Darkerplayer above, the weighted system has almost no impact on very popular entries, and with the actual distributions of ratings on the less popular ones, these ones lose only a few 0.01 points. Only a handful entries gets degraded through the system, and as i've seen it, it is always a newly released entry of a very popular franchise (especially Movies, as they are, most of the time, not available quickly).

Edit : Even with illegitimate accounts counted, you can try to make a comparison between an average and weighted score of a random entry tho. That may show you the very little bit of difference it does on most entry.
Alexioos95 said:
The weighted system is not done to counter trolls and bots tho. It's really just because a score made of the ratings from thousand of peoples is more trustful than one being made from only a single rating (or in the case of MAL, less than 100).

But MAL does not even score anime with fewer than 100 legitimate votes. I am in favor of maintaining this restriction. I only wish to modify the formula for those entries that do have scores. I trust a system that displays the genuine opinions of 100 users over a system that handicaps them. For anime with few votes, the scores currently displayed are no different from lies.

Alexioos95 said:
As pointed out by Darkerplayer above, the weighted system has almost no impact on very popular entries, and with the actual distributions of ratings on the less popular ones, these ones lose only a few 0.01 points.

That means there is no drawback to implementing my suggestion, and that a weighted formula is wholly unnecessary.
その目だれの目?
Jun 5, 2024 12:03 PM
Offline
Aug 2016
78
Reply to Lucifrost
Alexioos95 said:
The weighted system is not done to counter trolls and bots tho. It's really just because a score made of the ratings from thousand of peoples is more trustful than one being made from only a single rating (or in the case of MAL, less than 100).

But MAL does not even score anime with fewer than 100 legitimate votes. I am in favor of maintaining this restriction. I only wish to modify the formula for those entries that do have scores. I trust a system that displays the genuine opinions of 100 users over a system that handicaps them. For anime with few votes, the scores currently displayed are no different from lies.

Alexioos95 said:
As pointed out by Darkerplayer above, the weighted system has almost no impact on very popular entries, and with the actual distributions of ratings on the less popular ones, these ones lose only a few 0.01 points.

That means there is no drawback to implementing my suggestion, and that a weighted formula is wholly unnecessary.
@Lucifrost
The scores are not lies. You just don't seem to understand the concept of a representative score.
If you ask 100 people of their opinion on a score, your result will not be representative. What if 10 people get together and watch some hyper obscure thing that's obviously not for them, and give it terrible scores? Is that "fair", or should this unrepresentative sample be counteracted in some way? Or are you fine with people being kept from discovering obscure shows because of something like this?
Conversely, should a show enter the Top ranks of anime with vanishingly few votes?

In very simple terms, the way the MAL weighting works is that it basically emulates 100 average joes, who give a show the database mean score. This is a cheap and effective way to reduce naturally biased ratings as well as bot ratings (because not all of them are caught immediately - you were the one who made a thread about the massive score shifts ultimately caused by bots that went on for an entire month). The effect reduces as more and more votes are added (because the 100 don't grow in size), and because it has no cut-off, there is no sharp dividing like between "affected" and "unaffected" shows, just a fall-off where it rapidly gets less relevant. A show with 900 counted votes is 90% "real scores" and 10% "fake" scores. And any show that was going to be high up in the rankings naturally has more members than that by sheer word of mouth.

Let's give you some thought experiments:

100 people rate a show 8.5/10 because they're all the kinds fanboys who'd love it. Maybe a limited screening of a niche franchise film. The weighting counteracts it and reduces it to only be 7.5/10, so it's not in the Top 100 off 100 votes.
100 people hate an OVA because they watched a butchered dubbed VHS 30 years ago and rate it 4/10 on average. The weighting pushes it up to 5.2/10, so now it's not in the bottom 100 off 100 votes.
A guy sends 60 bots on a random untranslated 70s show that was rated 6/10 by the original 100 viewers, and rates it all 10/10. Now it would be 7.5/10 (easily the highest rated show of most seasons before 1995), but the weighting brings it back down to 7.07 before the bots are removed.

The weighting system is a brake that only applies with full force on the very edges of the scoring system, and prevents weird outliers at these edges. Most shows are not meaningfully affected, and there are very few titles (particularly in your most obscure section) that are actually "held down" by it.

I looked through my "most obscure" titles just now, and the highest rated is 6.52/10, with the next highest rating being 6.05, i.e. all but one title are being pulled up by the weighting system. These titles are not rated lowly because of MAL's weighting system. They're rated lowly because the few people who watched them generally aren't big fans (or just rate more harshly). And I can guarantee you that most titles obscure enough to be majorly affected will be pulled up.

In fact, let's prove it:
On the most popular anime ranking, starting from #13000, to #13500, the most popular entry has 1185 members and the least popular has 1027. None of these titles will have more than a few hundred votes and all will be notably affected by the weighting.
Out of our sample of 500 entries, 36 titles are unrated, 71 are rated above 6.40, and 393 are rated below 6.40.
~15% of titles in this popularity range are being held down, and 85% are being pulled up. The lower rated shows also tend to be rated much lower on average, many scores are in the 5s, but very few scores go beyond 7. This means that very obscure titles are being helped more often, and more strongly than they are being held down.
Jan 15, 8:16 PM

Offline
Feb 2016
14764
I don't feel the current system is helpful. It is difficult to tell good obscure anime apart from bad obscure anime when they all have the same low scores.
その目だれの目?
Jan 16, 3:18 AM

Online
Mar 2008
53282
Reply to Lucifrost
I don't feel the current system is helpful. It is difficult to tell good obscure anime apart from bad obscure anime when they all have the same low scores.
@Lucifrost
It should be possible for MAL to predict your score. Just make it find users who meet the criteria of having watched/read the anime/manga trying to be scored and have a very high closeness in similarity to how you rate and it can average it out from those few to make a guess. Technically a user can do that with a webscraping but without MAL doing it but could be hard on the site making those kind of detailed requests.
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⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Jan 17, 2:57 PM
Review Moderator
Onii Chan

Offline
Mar 2018
1840
What you are describing is indeed possible given that Netflix does something like this. But I guess big data analytics is something more in the wheelhouse of large tech companies and not MAL scale companies.
Aug 16, 12:41 AM

Offline
Sep 2019
80
ACasualViewer said:
I guess big data analytics is something more in the wheelhouse of large tech companies and not MAL scale companies.
Indeed, which circles us back to these quotes and reality checks:
hacker09 said:
Luna says all the time that Xinil "sucked as a dev" when he made mal, and mal still has his messed codes in it, so current mal devs are afraid of touching and changing it...
PxHC said:
If you want to ask something from devs, you have to ask for small and easy things.
Did you know that Notes are public? How do you personally use them?
Cast your vote and add a reply to this suggestion to let the devs know:
Add list setting to make notes private (on public lists)

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