So Million knives was the Hero?

Vyt3x said:
Mathi, you should've made the first post and then gone outside, touched some grass, let other people debate this.

The first post was good and then slowly yours and other's arguments started getting worse and worse.

Now, as a note to the original question:
Knives can be argued as not being the villain, an emotionless arbiter might even call him good. - However - He is the antagonist. He's the counter force to the protagonist. He is by definition the opposition, assuming people can empathize with Vash.
Vash can empathize with knives, but their goals are diametrically opposed. This is something that makes the story great, at least in my opinion.

Now, I'm goingboutside and sugggest everyone in this thread go touch grass. :)

Menyor said:
I see your point. From my perspective, Vash in this Trigun seemed more biased towards humans as compared to the ambiguous way Vash was portrayed in old Trigun which was better as it didn't made him look too biased over any side rather more like a wandering leaf who does & doesn't belong to either & each of the side.

Even though his own race was being discriminated & tortured, he seemed more concerned about discrimination & and the torture of humans. I know that should be the way but it certainly didn't felt that he was walking in center.
He sometimes seemed as if he was willing to let his own race die for the betterment of humans.

Mathi786 said:
I keep wondering, why does million knives is being portrayed as villain, he essentially had a very good point, It had much depth and conviction, 

I kinda feel like I m bit weird but I keep understanding villains's point of view more here, human's were just exploiting plants and then killing them like they are machines, And Nai was fighting against oppression and injustice, why is he the bad guy? Bcz he's killing the enemy but enemy is also killing them, that's how war works,
Also Vash's idea and philosophy was a bit pathetic, he said I will just keep running from them, when he didn't even do anything wrong that only makes Nai's point stronger,

I would like people opinion on this but plz stay respectful
Thanks 

Edit: also I like to add this anime is just amazing, I never thought there would come a day when I might prefer 3d over 2d but now I do, some of the fighting scenes were so smooth and color Palette was top of the class, also the OP was amazing, I love the anime

Andr0o said:
It's a fair point. If you don't assign any special moral weight to humanity's existence, then you can justify basically anything Knives did as an act of self-defence. That's not to say his methods were justified, and his piggish inability to try to reason with people rather than use force to roll over them is classic "written to be dumb" villain shit. In another story, the final conflict might have been resolved by Vash agreeing to help Knives carve out a place for Plants alongside humanity, but neither character was willing to compromise on the key conflict - whether or not humanity could be trusted to let them live. Knives was probably strong enough to hold his own against anything humanity could throw at him, so the threat they actually pose him is negligible.
ETA: I don't want to give the impression that I think the writing is bad for doing this either, Knives' actions are very much in-line with his past experiences and trauma - as are Vash's. It speaks more to the place of desperation each character's motives are coming from that they can't see there is another way that could make them both happier.

DeltaWDunn said:
Do you also believe Eren Yeager is a good guy?

YasashiEndo said:

yeah, can't disagree, in the manga is different but I'll just talk about the anime.

the reason for the view of Knives as a Villain is cuz the methods he use to achieve this goal, human experimentation, genocide, etc. Even if you argue that the humans did as well that doesn't mean that what's he's doing is good, it just means he's as bad as his villains.

you can also see it as a grey area, there aren't heroes nor villains, is just perspective.

DeltaWDunn said:
Do you also believe Eren Yeager is a good guy?

Mathi786 said:


No Eren is a total idiot, Eren could've achieved coexistence cz there was balance in power, but Eren chose to do the dumbest shit ever,

The problem is that your brain doesn't register the difference in their situation, you just recognize some keywords like war,genocide or killing humans, and after seeing these words you just go to an automatic response, that's "oh this character is a bad guy 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭"

DeltaWDunn said:

No, one group of people can transform into monsters and another can't. They're pretty different. And I guess I'm dumb for thinking genocide is bad? You're also saying in your later posts that "everyone's a villain" or something, but the forum title says Knives was "The Hero", as if he's the sole figure who's justified for killing.

In reality, Knives isn't just doing this for his race, but also because he hates humanity. He expresses no sadness for humanity because he thinks they're beneath him. If he actually cared about humanity at all, he wouldn't go straight to genocide and at least try other avenues that have been hinted to having potential. The main thing that separates Knives and the other characters is intent.

Ysrwii said:
Well, if you lived on this planet and Nai's goal was obliteration of all humans, will you happily die for his goal of changing planet for independent units? If yes - well, I guess you can call him a hero, from grave if you can. Other people didn't want to die for his plan, so for them his is a villain.

Vash just wanted to live alongside people.

Ysrwii said:
My reply aimed not only at you, but toward other readers who ponder the same thought as well.


I disagree. Vash indeed is trying to survive, Nai collected plants from many cities depriving people of water and who knows what else. This and trying to erase humanity can't be considered as "trying to survive".