What do female anime fans want to see in terms of ecchi/fan-service?

Anjuro said:
@GreyStoneSlinger
@JKKH

Actually while I have you here, I'll do you one better. Does this look like manservice to you? (The image is NSFW btw, look at your own risk). I did not draw it specifically for manservice purposes but this story is a bit femdomy so I was wondering maybe there's some accidental crossover. If not could you maybe point out what the problem is (aside from the horrible art -_-). Thanks.



edit: JKKH could you take a looksie too please thanks :)

JKKH said:
When girls act openly horny online you sometimes get weird guys in your dms lol. And some people might also just be shy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't really mind talking about it personally though, just explaining why some people are deflecting or not saying much

JKKH said:
And sorry for making you sign up for reddit, forced your hand lmao.

JKKH said:
As for what's cringe and not cringe it depends on individual taste. Though I think on that subreddit people who post their own art get upvoted a lot even if it's kinda cringe, because people like supporting artists. But if you sort by top of all time that's where you'll find the more widely liked popular stuff.

GreyStoneFlinger said:


I’m not masochistic. Just vengeful. Female characters victimized by fanservice often end up in these extremes, even not counting hentai. Men have often been the “upper-class” in humanity’s history, and many men view women as submissive and as sex objects. Many of the worst crimes are of men attacking women. These views bleed into anime in the form of fanservice.

I just want to see the reverse, where men are submissive, nonconsensual, and objectified for the pleasure of women (and fudanshis). Increasing the popularity of manservice could also balance the percentages of good and bad people in this world. Men could be appalled, or even horrified by the manservice, and women could find relief in knowing that men can also be sexualized. Some women might even decide to victimize men in real life, which can help be the counterbalance to men victimizing women. If women became the upper-class, it would allow our species to repent for its past mistakes.

GreyStoneFlinger said:
The way the man is bent over, and how his crotch is pointed towards the viewer… delicious.

Anjuro said:
@GreyStoneSlinger
@JKKH

Actually while I have you here, I'll do you one better. Does this look like manservice to you? (The image is NSFW btw, look at your own risk). I did not draw it specifically for manservice purposes but this story is a bit femdomy so I was wondering maybe there's some accidental crossover. If not could you maybe point out what the problem is (aside from the horrible art -_-). Thanks.



edit: JKKH could you take a looksie too please thanks :)

JKKH said:


Yeah I think that counts as manservice! Femdom stuff is actually kinda popular with women. And it looks good, leg muscles are a good thing to focus on for manservice imo, butts too. Something that might make it more femgazey is including the face, showing the character's expression/emotions.

Anjuro said:


For sure its up to taste but there's some reccuring patterns that I'm really curious about. I can give you some specifics if you'd like to try to answer me.

One thing I'm seeing constantly is that female targeted art tends to round out all the shapes and just make everything cuddly, personally I really hate this artstyle, I'm more of a semi-realistic and/or angular guy, is this fundamentally a deal breaker?

Another thing that's strange is that some of the images just look normal to me, like genuinely sometimes the only thing I can even conceive of as being for women is the guys expression (which tends to be more animated and bashful in female targetted art). Is that all it takes?

One more, Probably half of the art is femdomy in nature, previously in this thread someone mentioned that the main reason BL is so popular is that there is a shortage of hetero stuff women like, what is your own opinion on this, does female targeted hentai fundamentally mean the guys need to be feminized?

Anjuro said:

Ah excellent, the thing is I actually quite like that image (but I cannot say the same for a lot of stuff in the femgaze gallery I browsed), its nice to get some confirmation that man service for men and women is a thing that can exist :) Actually the reason his face is hidden is I was doing that trope where the person turns their gaze to the sky, the previous page does indeed have the guys expression.

JKKH said:
Yeah I don't like the super cutesy soft art style either, I like it more realistic anatomy wise. I don't think your style is a dealbreaker, it can definitely work!

JKKH said:
Do you mean normal as in it looks similar to stuff made for guys?

JKKH said:
And yep think expressions are pretty important for female targeted stuff, men being more expressive, emotive, or vulnerable is pretty popular.

JKKH said:
Empathizing with the characters is a pretty big draw, I think it's why women also like a lot of build up and slow burn type stuff.

JKKH said:
Going too far with the expressions can start heading into cringe territory, for me at least. Like I don't like ahegao expressions. Characters being kinda flustered is good though

JKKH said:
As for why it's really femdom oriented I think it's just the way that sub is lol, I'm neutral to femdom. It's not super my thing but I don't mind it. People probably post a lot of femdom content because it seems more obviously femgazey, people kinda argue about what counts as femgaze porn or not when really it's kinda subjective. Like I said regular porn dudes like might also be enjoyed fine by women.

erikkamirs said:
I want more BL content, and crossdressing guys!

erikkamirs said:
I'm also not opposed to sexy, butch ladies.

erikkamirs said:
Muscle guys can be pretty sexy as well...

Anjuro said:

I feel like femboys/crossdressing type stuff is enjoyable for both sexxes, no objections there


I'm sorry to inform you that is just a normal looking lady, when I hear butch I'm thinking Bisuke from hunter x hunter in her original form (although she do be damn sexy).


I mean this is like saying the sky is blue

erikkamirs said:
Literally, my only exposure to Kaori and I'm in love...🥰

erikkamirs said:
I guess she's not like ultra-butch, maybe like futch (femme-butch) or a tomboy. I'm also partial to Haruka from Sailor Moon, and Tomo from Tomo-chan is a girl!. I'm not like huge into yuri, but lesbians are lovely!!! Like Quanxi from Chainsaw Man. Or Kanbura from the Monogatari Series.

erikkamirs said:
Also when I say muscle guys, I mean like bara-type muscle guys. Like Gengoroh Tagame's muscle guys. Super sexy 😍.

erikkamirs said:
I think someone mentioned Redo of Healer. The anime wasn't that great, but watching this little guy getting tormented was pretty entertaining...👌

Anjuro said:
Thats so mean XD Well I guess fetishizing women getting destroyed is literally akin to vanilla for men so its only fair, still just the way you said it I felt the malice, as a guy I always want the girl to be ok ya know.

erikkamirs said:
Lol yeah, but it's a disconnect because it's a cartoon, or if live action actors are consenting beforehand and it's just pretend. Wouldn't be into IRL
dark web red room stuff, I would just feel bad.

erikkamirs said:
I also don't want girls to get hurt! Men always seem a little more resilient, so less need to worry.

erikkamirs said:
It's like Nagatoro-san and Senpai. Senpai is submissive, and it's fun to see him get frazzled and embarrassed.

Anjuro said:
I think you'll be happy to know I only draw hot ripped guys, never understood the ugly bastard thing either, makes no goddamn sense.

GreyStoneFlinger said:


I’m not masochistic. Just vengeful. Female characters victimized by fanservice often end up in these extremes, even not counting hentai. Men have often been the “upper-class” in humanity’s history, and many men view women as submissive and as sex objects. Many of the worst crimes are of men attacking women. These views bleed into anime in the form of fanservice.

I just want to see the reverse, where men are submissive, nonconsensual, and objectified for the pleasure of women (and fudanshis). Increasing the popularity of manservice could also balance the percentages of good and bad people in this world. Men could be appalled, or even horrified by the manservice, and women could find relief in knowing that men can also be sexualized. Some women might even decide to victimize men in real life, which can help be the counterbalance to men victimizing women. If women became the upper-class, it would allow our species to repent for its past mistakes.

Anjuro said:
I see the appeal too, for example in Chihayafuru they have this slow romance burn between taiji, chihaya and arata. Its very subtle, mostly silent contemplative pauses with virtually nothing explicit happening, but at the end of season 3 when chihaya goes crying to her teacher because she just realized she had been trampling all over taijis feelings this whole time it just hits you like a truck. One thing I would like to clarify here is does this sort of thing truly feel like fan-service to you? I.e. for me I perceive it as romantic but not erotic, in my view fan-service is more about the feeling of erotic stimulation.

Anjuro said:
Another thing I would like to explore is what actions and circumstances exactly would you say build that tension? I realize this might be a difficult question, to give some examples from chihaya, the basic premise of taiji's romance with chihaya is that chihaya only cares about karuta which forces Taiji to get better at karuta in order to pursue her, however in the back of his mind he knows arata is the one she is closest to in the world of karuta, and so there is this interplay between karuta and romance which drives the tension. When Taiji is exerting himself beyond his limits at karuta he is doing it to win chihaya over, but chihaya doesn't understand that and often responds with unintentionally hurtful comments, meanwhile both her and arata are constantly improving at karuta leaving him behind, it is this context that gives the scene in which both chihaya and arata are competing side by side to get the finals its romantic power, this is the first time Taiji has caught up to Chihaya but it is simultaneously his last chance to show that he is a strong karuta player and win her love.

Anjuro said:
Actually even as a guy I find build up extremely important, I can enjoy it even when it's not that subtle but if they jump straight into sex that kills the mood for me. One thing I'm still trying to figure out here is does an explicit ending ruin a subtle build up for women? What about if there some slightly more explicit stuff mixed in with the subtlety. The thing is as far as my male perspective is concerned you need unsubtle actions to build eroticism and sexual excitement, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Anjuro said:
Interesting you say that, judging from previous responses in the thread there seems to be a common trend that more overt sexual content triggers a bashful response, but the thing is I don't view that as a negative feeling. If anything the way your describing it sounds like you rather enjoy this sort of thing in its own way.

Nutella71 said:
Good question. I can only speak for myself here, but I'm honestly not sure, never really thought about it. For me fanservice is anything that I feel like was thrown into with the intention of fans feeling good without it having much impact to the story. It doesn't have inherent erotic or romantic connotations linked to it, even if I acknowledge that for a vast majority of people it does.

Nutella71 said:
I haven't seen Chihayafuru yet, but I do get what you're saying. Now I understand this may sound very vague, but the tension for me can be built in a more mild manner than one would think. Characters playing off each other well and having chemistry is one thing I can think of that has a substancial role in building tension (and not just the romantic one). As you mentioned with Chihayafuru, actions of care, passion (in whatever form), even the character's inner/self-reflective thoughts also show that. Without it I think you only get two people that are together on the same screen. Other than that, some more specific things I think would be little moments that the characters share (like sitting on the sofa and cuddling, reading books, having breakfast), when one caresses the other's hand, putting their foreheads and noses together, hearing the other's breathing and heartbeat, one of them dancing or posing and the other watching them intently with a slow song in the background, getting each other very personal presents, remembering one loves the opera or anything of the sort so you take them there for an occasion. Some of these are so damn cheesy, but they could be done in a masterful way.

Nutella71 said:
As far as build up goes, I guess I partially answered that in the previous paragraph. An explicit ending however does not neccessarily ruin the subtle build up for me, no. Build up for me can be ruined if the one writing it steers into territory that reads like you're handling a blow up doll and not a person, unless that was the intention. But then again, people's tastes are different so something being too explicit or rough can be right up someone else's alley. I think it also somewhat depends on what people consider is „real/true“ sex or not.

Nutella71 said:
I also try not to see it as something one should be ashamed of, it's a normal human reaction to a bunch of things (from compliments to people in dapper outfits), but judgy people wil judge no matter what and I do have a need to conform and not really voice out much so *shrugs* Whether I enjoy it or not, dunno can't put it exactly into words. On one level the feeling of bashfulness isn't exactly a pleasant feeling, but it's not bad per say either. But subconsciously my immediate answer to it is to repress it.

alienness said:
as a bonified bisexual woman i want more focus on tits.

alienness said:
but for real, more meganes that aren't trope-y. I need the flirty megane. the not awkward megane. the real bad bitch megane. i just... i'm bad at this. i want more men in glasses.

Anjuro said:
What took you so long ;) Well still, a late answer beats no answer so thank you! Sorry I was rambling about Chihayafuru when you hadn't seen it, I kinda felt I had to talk specifics to get my point across

Anjuro said:
good fan service either ties into the plot or complements it (kind of like how comic relief is used to lighten the mood). So I guess I have to reprise my question with the added specificity "Does subtle romantic interaction feel erotic to women in the same way say a woman in lingerie is erotic for men"?

Anjuro said:
To give an example of what I consider "good fan service" , heres' one I have planned for my story, at one point a female character is promoted to the head of a department at a manufacturing company, her first action as leader is to confiscate all of her subordinates meanial work and force them to focus on creative work, in doing so she wants to protect them from the bureaucratic inertia of large organizations that often stymie creative and positive outcomes in favour of tried and true, safe but dysfunctional mediocrity. She puts up a front to her team saying she's just so much smarter than them that this trivial work is nothing to her but behind the scenes she is working her ass off to keep the arrangement going, finally at some point in the future her superior is shifting through a report of the work her department has done and to his surprise he finds one of the documents has been replaced with a photoscan of the girls boobs (which she kind of tries to play off as a bribe). So basically the point of this scene is to titillate, sure, but really more so it is to show that the girl is a kind person for whom a slight embarrassment like this is a small price to pay so that her department can get closer to realizing something wonderful.

Anjuro said:
The question for me is how does the romance tie into erotisicm (Like so far I genuinely don't think anyone in this thread has address sexual gratification, too taboo for girls to discuss maybe?).

Anjuro said:
Your heart beats faster and your body feels hot, you're tunnel visioning a little bit. It's a surge of emotion, not a steady feeling.

Anjuro said:
In most media there is a heavy veil of prudishness when it comes to portaying sex but to me sitting in the authors chair it almost feels like kind of rude

Anjuro said:
if it's a positive thing you show it to people even if it makes them uncomfortable, that's a rare occasion where I think the audience has to sort themselves out and let themselves experience positive feelings.

Nutella71 said:
No problem, I was just busy with going through and grading some exams for my mom's students.

Nutella71 said:
Yes complements! That was the word I was also looking for. However I don't think many fans notice whether fanservice does that or not, or maybe I have a wrong impression. And by "not having impact on the story" I didn't mean that in a negative way, on the contrary. Coexisting or complementing the story can do wonders.

Nutella71 said:
Hmm that kind of fanservice goes in the characters and plots favor, not something I've seen often. It's not something very overt, but more lowkey while still tangibly being there and definitely thought through. It's not something easy to pull off either so kudos to you! It's always nice to see passionate writers.

Nutella71 said:
Now I think I have to preface this by saying that I have never been in any sort of a romantic and/or sexual relationship so my opinion might prove itself to not be of value (so do correct me if you see I'm writing eye roll worthy nonsensical rubbish). Although, I think it would be rude of me if I didn't at least tried to offer something (that is not from Hallmark rom coms), even if doesn't come from first person experience. I could quote a female friend is attracted to both men and women, and she says that subtle romantic interaction and lingerie are both erotic when it comes to women, but it depends on the context and approach. One could be considered inherently more crass and erotic than the other, but I think they can be equally stimulating and exciting. From what I've seen, the "woman in lingerie" could possibly be compared with "a man with his shirt off" type of thing on the same level. I honestly wouldn't know much more since I'm not close enough with that many people whom I could talk about such topics, if we exclude internet conversations.

Nutella71 said:
Yeah you feel like you're depraving the readers/watchers from something they should not be depraved of. We could open a whole new can of worms and tie in how sex ed in a lot of countries is atrocious or non-existant and how that affects how many people percieve human sexuality in all its sizes and shapes. There's also some irony in there being dozens giant advertisements for woman lingerie on display while that same lingerie also being this mystical thing.

Nutella71 said:
I understand what you're describing but only in theory and what I've heard from others. Maybe a bit TMI, but I've never felt like that for another person (and I'm not a pre-pubescent child for that matter). So I don't know how to respond, I'm sorry.

Nutella71 said:
Pardon me but I genuinely had to google what exactly sexual gratification meant, it was one of those words you kind of know the meaning of but when directly asked can't explain (English also isn't my native language so more complex words can escape me). From what I've read it's a pleasure gained from the satisfaction of a desire. Kind of like post nut clarity? Or just when you're horny for a loved person and that person reciprocates? (I'm really making this needlessly convoluted aren't I.) I don't know if it's that taboo for girls to discuss, I'm just that uninformed.

Nutella71 said:
In the end, we're here to enjoy anime and life, not sit like a wrinkled anxious raisin and hold our breath every other step. Easier said than done I know. To release those, sometimes year long, brakes can take a lot of courage and mental strength out of a person.

Anjuro said:
Ah, now I feel bad, I'm basically just giving you another assignment to grade here aren't I? XD

Anjuro said:
Also, at least in this thread, I have observed that it has generally been just the bisexual women who have expressed interest in erotic subjects, this makes me doubly anxious to generalize what you said to all women (not that I would generalize one persons account to half the human population, just that I'm not even sure if I can take it as being half right).

Anjuro said:
I have simultaneously been trying to figure out whether there really exists a special combination that makes romance feel erotic for women. (In men, believe it or not it can have the opposite effect, you may have heard of guys saying things like "I can't fantasise about her" when talking about their crush, I have felt this way in the past as well, it is the feeling of romantic attraction interfering/overpowering erotic attraction).

Anjuro said:
Ok this sentence has actually shattered my mind. A million apologies for what I'm about to say but it almost sounds like you have never orgasmed before (or maybe female sexuality is just so different that you literally don't feel the emotion I am describing). This reaffirms that this is such a difficult discussion to be having, but thank you for trying to have it with me because I do feel I have at least made some progress.

Anjuro said:
It is definitely a horny feeling but at least for men love is not required to feel this emotion (again tieing into my previous message where I tried to exaplain to you the difference between romantic attraction and erotic attraction). It may be different for women though (again, I cannot say with absolute certainty given the circumstances).

Nutella71 said:
Oh this is certainly not the case. You might've heard of those "very spicy novels that are usually read by housewives or erotic asmr that is listened by teen girls", as per their stereotypes. Then there's also r-18 rated fanfiction and art that is enjoyed by many women. I also forgot to mention, my best and closest friend is very, very open about her colourful sex life which I've observed in conversations with me and some of her friends, so calling her not interested in erotic subjects would be a major understatement.

Nutella71 said:
Hmm well I'm inclined to say there isn't a definitive, special combo but a case by case basis. I can't deny there are differences between how men and women on average experience this (which is influenced by a ton of things, from upbringing, ones personality to what society has to say about this), but I also don't think the difference is that big. See this is why I steer clear of generalizing because something always goes unsaid.

Nutella71 said:
I've probably heard of something along the lines, but can't really say it went fully understood, so when you say "I can't fantasize about her." what do you mean exactly, fantasize in what way?

Nutella71 said:
It's okay I had a feeling I've said something that gave that impression. I'd prefer to not go into further detail as it concerns some parts I'd really not talk about with a stranger on an anime forum, hope you don't mind. And no I heavily doubt it's that different, it's just me in this case.

Nutella71 said:
'm fairly certain it goes similarly for women (considering what my friend has told me and some other things), why wouldn't they be capable of feeling that horny emotion without love. Yeah I was familiar with the difference between the two (romantic and erotic attraction) even before you mentioned it, I just haven't been able to discern between the two when it comes to my experiences personally (or the lack thereof).

Nutella71 said:
Also thank you for the friend request!

Anjuro said:
First, I'm not sure if there's a specific reason it's just the housewives who have a hankering for this stuff (There seems to be an image that its only because they are so dissatisfied with their real sex life do they find escapism in that kind of thing), it may be irrelevant though because either way it shows the interest exists although once again I'm not sure exactly what it is that's in these books.

Anjuro said:
Second, I would really like to know about the visual dimension of this as well, with books its hard to distinguish erotica from romance cause they kind of blend in, most of the heavy lifting is done by the imagination which cannot be observed.

Anjuro said:
I'm still not sure if the prerequisite for female sexual stimulation is a romantic relationship.

Anjuro said:
I don't know to be honest, some of the things you said definitely point me to believe there is a significant difference and I don't think it's its nurture factors necessarily (if we think about this from a biological perspective, men can reproduce with a virtually unlimited amount of women but women must pick and choose one, it's not too far fetched to say women need to feel that trust and connection before they are biologically allowed to feel erotic emotions), but the information is very conflicting (keep in mind, you probably don't have a full grasp of what men feel either).

Anjuro said:
Man, I'm really spilling the beans here aren't I? I might not wake up tomorrow for telling you this lol XD
By fantasise I meant "think about in an erotic way" (so imagine doing things of a sexual nature with that person). How this phenomenon has worked for me is that you first need to satiate the romantic desire by doing romantic things (talking, being around the person etc.) and only then do you "calm down" enough to start thinking about erotic attraction.

Anjuro said:
The more you get your heart broken with failed relationships the more your ability to feel romantic feelings dimishes, so all you have left is lust and you have a very hard time bonding with anyone.

Anjuro said:
This is also how you get the "playboys" who basically don't feel much romantic attraction at all (or have learned to suppress it) and simply operate to fulfill their erotic desires. (I'm going off here a little bit but this is how I understand male sexuality)

Anjuro said:
This is why I said before you may want to talk to me in the dms but I completely understand if the conversation is getting too uncomfortable for you. This is unfortunately that coyness I've been talking about (I'll answer anything you ask me I don't care XD), but thank you for having the courage to actually come out and say it because it's really hard for me when instead of that I get deflections and lies. Maybe it comes with age, although I assume I'm probably not that much older than you (25) so I don't know.

Anjuro said:

Interesting perspective. I'm definitely over the whole prude virgin girl act as well, I wanna see more feisty women in anime. Gonna second the muscle women, they are more popular than you know ;) I'm surprised you didn't mention guys though, am I correct to assume you're fine with the fan service revolving mostly around the women?