| The anime seemed to have always confirmed Gilbert dead and the story seemed to be about Violet learning to move on, live on well, and learn how to feel emotion like other people. It really had Violet coming of age. And Eternity and the Automemory doll The character development in the anime, for me, was insane, and it is a classic for me. This movie seems to reverse that character development by making Violet dependent on Gilbert once again. And she never even calls him Gilbert, it's always "Major," even when Gilbert tells her he's not her major anymore. It feels like she still sees him as someone who is above her. And Gilbert was not even given a redemption arc or even made to apologize. He didn't even feel sympathetic besides some form of guilt. He hurt Violet, for *so* long. How do you do that? How do you run out on someone like that? I can understand guilt, but Violet didn't even get an apology. She instantly forgave him, without any communication. Personally, the movie should have been a 5-6 episode arc, in all honesty. For me, the movie gets an 8/10 (art, animation, music, other storyline), in comparison to 10/10 for both the anime and 10/10 for Gaiden. |
| “A lesson without pain is meaningless. That's because no one can gain without sacrificing something. But by enduring that pain and overcoming it, he shall obtain a powerful, unmatched heart. A fullmetal heart.” I like 95% of the anime I watch. Fashies and the like can go fuck themselves. |
| It's not a dissonance between the TV and the Movie (after all, I always knew that he was alive somewhere), it's more about the story withing itself. What you said it's one point of valid discussion. In the end Violet stayed the same little lost and dependent without a will child from when Gilbert first met her. His words about what he wished for her where hallow and my god, we can't not talk about how he, a grown adult was in love with a child. When in the beginning of the movie the narration mentioned Violet's age, 18 years old, I knew immediately that she would end together as a couple with Gilbert. I'm so tired of this dirty trick... "she 18 now, it's totally legal, ok? He is not pedo because now she is officially an adult". How many times did you see this before? Also, no one else can see that Violet relationship with Gilbert and Hodgins is swapped?!! Think about it, Hodgins is portrayed as an "father figure" to Violet right? The movie even ends showing his "pain of a father seeing his daughter/child leave home", right? But compare the time Violet lived with both of them. With Hodgins it was much more distant relationship, he was just there looking to her at a safe distance, a distance not close enough to make it natural for him to develop any parental or romantic feelings for her. It could be any, what decided to witch direction his affection for her went was... his age, right? Hi is old, and she was still a kid. For him was unthinkable to see her as anything other than a kid for which he was responsible to protect. Now think about Gilbert. When he met her he wasn't a kid anymore, he was already somewhat an adult. He met her much younger and how was the time he spend with her? Teaching basic things, like talk, read, how to behave, explain the world in a why she could understand... like a father does! How can he love her as anything other than a father? But that whole time he "loved" her in a romantic sexual way? Seriously? Now, think about the ending and the letter Violet gave to him... he was "struggling to do the right thing", let her live her life alone, independently, because he didn't felt deserving of her. And why would she need him? By the few news he got about her while in the island he must had understood that she was faring very well without him, so it wasn't about her, it was about him struggling with the desire to be with her. So when he read his letter, letter than said clearly that she was living him behind, she could live without him while still missing him, when he understood that he would stay on that island alone without her... he went running after her. It wasn't about Violet, it wasn't about what he thought was best about Violet, he never thought about was best for her, in the end he just used her from be begining. He never had any parental feelings for her like Hodgins. I never managed to like this series very much. Melodramatic stories don't work for me. I already knew that I would dislike a bit when the movie started with Ann's granddaughter. Nope, that story didn't worked for me, made me felt nothings, so it was a bit of a disappointment to see it be brought back. The only good part for me was the kid dying in the end because they did the right thing. Sometimes people just need to talk with each other directly, no matter the worlds, just be there and show what you feel, that simple. But still, this goes to show one of Kyoto Animation weakness, the writing. All their anime looks very pretty, the art directions is always good, there's a lot of thought put on it despite that to some it may be a bit obvious with all that flower symbolism. But the effort they put in the art and animation (character animation) is missing in the dialogue that is always very basic and frequently expository. Just rewatch the beginning with Daisay hearing about the letters her grandma receive... Really? She never ever heard about that story? She was there complaining about how her mother didn't understood her own mother, how she was closer to her grandma and knew how she felt, she must had loved her grandma and spend a lot of time with her, but he never heard about those letters? Kyoto Animation anime is always like this, they don't seem to have an interest in dialogue, in "better" writing. There's nothing to think about what comes from the characters mouths. That Violet Evergarden revolves around letters highlights this weakness. Bland letters become something special, just because they are written. It's all too blunt and unrefined, think again about other scenes and you'll notice this. Dialogue is kind of a bother than they have to deal with. Meanwhile those flowers trying to add some meaning to it... I don't think what I watch was a "Perfect Love" story. But partly at least is cultural. I mean, the whole Violet and Gilbert romance and Violet lack of personality. She is just another Yamato Nadeshiko. |
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| I always write too much and end forgetting a bit of what I wanted to say. Continuing from https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1964546#msg64655074 Related to what Gilbert feels about Violet and the whole drama about her understanding the words "love" and "love you", I think Violet missed the point. She understood only one interpretation of love, romantic love, in relation to Gilbert, right? When he said to her there on the battlefield that he loved her just after telling her to go live her life, he didn't meant that he wanted for her to stay by her side even in death, he meant for her to fuck off! I mean, it's not the type of "love" that asks the other person to stay, because you need her close to you for you and you both to be happy, it's the contrary. It's the type of love that puts the other person first, that wishes for both, or at least the other person to be happy even apart from you. This goes back to what I wrote about his reaction to her letter. With her letter she said that she would finally do what he had told her and this makes him freak out? Eren Jaeger feelings... the thought of Violet living her life happily without him made him despair... this is a very narrow and selfish love. Also, talking about Violet, he saw various types of love and yes, most of them involve wanting to be with the person you love (not only romantically as a couple in a sexual way also), but what she did also see? Remember the TV anime. Many of those stories were about being about with their loved ones, despite this life continues. She should had learned that her life could continue very well without Gilbert him being dead or not. Looked like she had finally reached this conclusion but the story immediately backtracks because Gilbert is a coward. |
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| I agree the anime kinda left me dissapointed because how other people in this thread already pointed it, it ruins violets development. I think it was fine if Gilbert was left dead but what can I do. I gave the anime a 10 but this movie a 7 sadly. |
| Well, I just saw The Movie as something totally unnecessary and a failure in term of characters' development, but others having received badly of it might have different ideas. |
SgtBateManOct 14, 2021 12:37 PM
Help! I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody. Help! You know I need someone. Helpppppp!  |
WeebiBOY said: Well this story shows that how violet(a person who doesn't have emotions, feelings and don't know the meaning of I LOVE YOU)meets with people,writing their letters and putting their emotions in the letters and started knowing what emotions and feelings are like and she wanted to convey her feelings to the major(but I can't disagree that after knowing that the major had died she moved on and started to live her life in a different way was a pretty good theme)but the fact that the major was alive and they meet each other and she conveyed her feelings towards major did not dissonance the theme at all FOR ME. Well violet of episode 1 and violet at the end of the movie was almost a different character and that is a great character development. Don't come after my bad english and I think you were able to understand my point and thank you for reading this. Even with your bad english I could understand your bad taste, don't worry. Makes not difference for me that Gilbert was alive. Could be something good because meeting but NOT getting with him would truly give closure to Violet. It's hard to overcome a loss when you still believe that the deceased might be alive somewhere. |
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| I used to hold a similar stance to you before I watched the movie in theaters. I watched the series, instantly fell in love with it and began sharing it with my whole family. Then I saw the trailer and found out that Gilbert is still alive. At first I was upset about this because I too felt like it was backtracking on the themes of the show, and ignoring all of the character growth Violet had. However, I came to grips with the fact that I would be okay with it, as long as it made sense and was handled well in the movie. And personally, after watching the movie months ago, I felt like those 2 conditions were met for me. While I agree the anime framed it that Gilbert was dead, we should keep in mind that that was from the perspective of our main cast: Violet, Hodgins, The Evergardens, etc. For all intents and purposes, to them he was dead. He disappeared after Intense and hid away on the island until the events of the movie happen obviously. They had no way of knowing that he actually survived, and logically, the probability pointed towards him having died. I personally disagree with Violet being dependent on Gilbert once again. This was actually what I was most afraid of once I found out he was still alive. I didn't want her arc of growing into her own person to be undermined by just shoving the major back in the story. But I personally didn't get any of those vibes from the movie. For me, it was much more so Violet finding out Gilbert actually survived, and wanting more than anything to thank him for what he did for her. Was following military orders and using Violet as a weapon an immoral decision by Gilbert? Yes. You see him torn up about this throughout the show, and that guilt was a major (pun intended) factor for him running away to the island. Was running away to the island and pretending he was dead messed up as well? Also yes. They address this in the movie as well, with Hodgins straight up calling out Gilbert on it. However, you can see his thought process for the reasons he did leave. Furthermore, despite the things he did wrong by Violet, she doesn't see any of that. In her eyes, Gilbert is the first person to ever treat her like a human being. He taught her to read and write, named her, and gave her a place to belong, no matter how twisted their original relationship was. In no way does this excuse Gilbert's other actions, but it also shouldn't be overlooked. In the series, Violet begins her journey of self discovery when she becomes an Auto Memories Doll, driven on by the desire to understand what Gilbert meant by I love you. Now I'm gonna go on a little tangent to rant about something I see constantly in discussion of Violet Evergarden. That being, the complex relationship of Gilbert and Violet, or in short: people calling Gilbert a pedophile. I absolutely hate this so much, and also feel it is completely unfounded. Don't get me wrong, child predators are immensely disgusting and reprehensible, which is why I hate when people taint discussion of this beautiful heart warming series with baseless accusations that numb the actual meaning of the word pedophile. To me, I had always viewed Gilbert and Violet's initial flashback relationship as a platonic, surrogate Father/Daughter dynamic. Obviously, Violet views it as a soldier to CO relationship, where she relies on Gilbert's orders. However, Gilbert clearly doesn't view it this way, which is why he is constantly torn up about sending her into battle: he sees her for what she is, a young girl. Off the battlefield, we see Gilbert essentially raise Violet, and never once do we see him romantically approach her, or force himself on her. In fact, from what I've heard from novel readers, this was actually what was happening on Dietfried's ship, in the flashback where we see Violet with a bloody knife, surrounded by corpses. Apparently, they found her on a deserted island, and when the piece of shit sailors tried to sexually assault her, she killed all of them in self defense. You can also see effects of this in the show as well. When Gilbert brings her to the Mansion, and tries to give her a blanket, she freaks out and zooms away. And yet, despite all this, some people chalk it all up to him grooming her. Excuse me? No. I don't belive Violet would grow to trust Gilbert as much as she did if at some point he had tried to assault her. One of the only other "pieces of evidence" people point to for him being a creep, is obviously when he tells her he loves her. However, something certain people for whatever reason overlook, is that there is more than one type of love, and they are actually showcased in the series. If my memory serves correctly, we only see 3 cases of "romantic" love as the main focus of the letters we see Violet commissioned to write. These being the special episode with the opera, the letters between Charlotte and Damian, and the dying soldier from episode 11. Other than that: we see the love between siblings with Luculia and her brother; we see love between a child and her parents with Iris; we see love between a father and his daughter with the playwright; we see love between a mother and her daughter with episode 10; we see love between adopted sisters with the first movie; and we see love between a dying boy, his family, and his friend with the final movie. That's 6 out of 9 cases (or 66%) where the love being expressed is not romantic but familial. This means that as Violet is becoming her own person, helping others, and trying to find out what Gilbert meant, she is realizing that Love is incredibly complex, and there are many different aspects to it. If I recall correctly, I think she even brings this up in her letter to Gilbert at the end of the movie, her realization over the years that there are many different types of love. Now I'll swing back around to the scene at the stairwell in Intense. I always have, and still do view Gilbert's expression of love here as the platonic, familial love that we see for the majority of the show. Violet only sees herself as a weapon, but Gilbert loves her, and wants her to see herself as a person like he does. This also neatly ties back in to the final movie. The characterization of Gilbert in the movie shows his reasons for escaping to the island. One of the clear ones to me, was that he felt if he remained around Violet, she would never be able to see herself as anything other than a weapon. We see him try to convey some of this in the tent before Intense, but it doesn't get across to her. Part of the reason he doesn't want to see her again, other than his guilt, is that he thinks things will revert right back to during the war between them. What he doesn't initially realize though, is that Violet actually was able to "Live, and be free" like he had pleaded with her to do. This was one of the reasons I did want their reunion to happen, so that he could see that Violet was able to grow into something more than a one track killing machine. Violet is no longer dependant on Gilbert, but on finding out he is alive still wishes to see him again. She wants to thank him for everything he did for her, and wants to be near someone she cares about. I would argue that your point about Gilbert not getting a "redemption arc" and not feeling sympathetic is not entirely true. We see that much of his existence on the island is him trying to atone for what happened in the war, through teaching the children and constantly helping out. I do believe part of this is just his nature, but also that the weight from the war also drives these actions. He regrets what happened with Violet, but also everyone else who suffered because of the bloodshed. He never actually wanted to be a soldier, but did so to appease his father. With Violet never referring to him by his name, I personally didn't have a problem with that. The entire time she knew him, he was "The Major" to her. Even though she has become her own person, that habit/reflex is still there, and that's not going to change immediately. Lastly, going back to their relationship in the movie, I once again do not believe it to be the twisted mess of dependency it was before. They have been able to move past that and Violet has learned to live without him. However, while she CAN live without him, she still WANTS to live with him. I don't have a problem with them having a romantic relationship at this point, because Violet is now an incredibly intelligent adult, who can understand what it means for two people to love each other. I still don't think years before Gilbert romantically loved her, but I can see that developing from the point of the movie onward, and that is completely fine to me. I know in the novels it is much more cut and dry near the end about defining their romantic relationship, but I also appreciate the sort of "open-ended" "left to interpretation" approach they took in the anime. Part of that to me, is that the romantic relationship at the end was never the focus of what they wanted to convey in the adaptation. There are so many other beautiful messages present there, that it kind of takes a side line in the movie, and I am more than okay with that. Anyway, that's my rather large two cents, as you can tell I love this series and movie to death. Even if some people didn't like the movie, I'm glad they were able to enjoy and be moved by the show like I was. |
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| I understand that Violet "wants" to live with Gilbert, this is obvious, by great part of this desire comes from her emotional dependence on him. The series had an obvious "overcoming loss" theme to it. Violet was in the same situation as millions in times of war, specially during the Great War that so much resembled the war shown in the series. The relatives and friends of the dead soldiers had to accept their deaths without ever seeing their cadavers. Violet was just some war veteran that had seem her comrades in arms dye, but she still had the advantage of hearing he say with his dying breath to overcome his death and live by herself (let's ignore how ridiculous his body disappeared from her side, just a plot convenience). So she failed, he never overcame his loss and it was ok. Many also never overcome their traumas of war, but remains the problem that she didn't learned much while she was "independent". Yes, she learned many things while she was apart from him, but just like she did learn when she was with him. Live by herself, by happy by herself, not needing him, this she never learned. The movie makes this "bad" because first Violet only trying to force herself to keep apart from him because he ordered her to, just to follow with Gilbert denying her this by calling her back. And make them a couple. because it's totally legal now, it's not pedo, he is exactly 18 years (this annoys me, if you'll use the card that "it was a different time" than have the courage to make them be together while she is still a minor). |
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