| Beastars, like many CGI anime, is animated on 2s, which basically means to hold something for two frame rather than one (so literally 12 fps). The reason why they do so is to replicate hand-drawn animation style. 2D hand-drawn anime is also usually animated on 2s too. It's not like this is a lazy way of animating, as it takes absolutely no effort to interpolate the frames and make it look smoother. If anything, going frame-by-frame and choosing how and where to hold frames takes a lot more effort. By not holding the frames, the character animations would lack weight to it. An example of an anime that interpolates its frames to make it look smoother is this trailer: Of course, it's all up to preference and all, but I find that trailer to be appalling. The character animation does have expression and is animated enough, but the lack of holding frames causes it too look too game-y. I think this show would've great benefitted if they held the frames and tried to replicate 2D animation's style. Hell, even some games try to do a better job of mimicking 2D animation. If you've ever seen what ArcSys has done with Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FighterZ, they hold the frames of the character animation to replicate 2D animation. No different from what Studio Orange does with Beastars. Video games and film/animations are separate mediums. For animation, more fluidity ≠ better animation. |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: Beastars, like many CGI anime, is animated on 2s, which basically means to hold something for two frame rather than one (so literally 12 fps). The reason why they do so is to replicate hand-drawn animation style. 2D hand-drawn anime is also usually animated on 2s too. It's not like this is a lazy way of animating, as it takes absolutely no effort to interpolate the frames and make it look smoother. If anything, going frame-by-frame and choosing how and where to hold frames takes a lot more effort. By not holding the frames, the character animations would lack weight to it. An example of an anime that interpolates its frames to make it look smoother is this trailer: Of course, it's all up to preference and all, but I find that trailer to be appalling. The character animation does have expression and is animated enough, but the lack of holding frames causes it too look too game-y. I think this show would've great benefitted if they held the frames and tried to replicate 2D animation's style. Hell, even some games try to do a better job of mimicking 2D animation. If you've ever seen what ArcSys has done with Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FighterZ, they hold the frames of the character animation to replicate 2D animation. No different from what Studio Orange does with Beastars. Video games and film/animations are separate mediums. For animation, more fluidity ≠ better animation. Your argument is flawed because the video you linked is sloppy itself and it also has trash art and quality overall, it's not even in 1080p. Beastars is better because it has its sense of aesthetics. I find this trailer appalling as well, and framerate is definitely not the worst thing in it. You can do mental gymnastics all you want, but eyes don't lie. Both the video you linked as a supposedly proof of something and Beastars are not a pleasurable experience for human eyes that are used to quality productions. You want to prove that something is good by linking something that it's worse but have somewhat better framerate? That's not exactly how it works. I see only trash. |
FpsArena said: All of your criticisms related to Beastars' animation had something to do with the framerate. So I was just bringing up how simply making it more smoother wouldn't necessarily make it look better. For example, for the Tesla Note trailer, wouldn't you say it would've looked better if they held the frames for longer to mimic 2D animation? By having every frame be different from the last, the characters come off as incredibly floaty to me. Especially considering how most animations are done on 2s anyways. GoldenDevilGamer said: Beastars, like many CGI anime, is animated on 2s, which basically means to hold something for two frame rather than one (so literally 12 fps). The reason why they do so is to replicate hand-drawn animation style. 2D hand-drawn anime is also usually animated on 2s too. It's not like this is a lazy way of animating, as it takes absolutely no effort to interpolate the frames and make it look smoother. If anything, going frame-by-frame and choosing how and where to hold frames takes a lot more effort. By not holding the frames, the character animations would lack weight to it. An example of an anime that interpolates its frames to make it look smoother is this trailer: Of course, it's all up to preference and all, but I find that trailer to be appalling. The character animation does have expression and is animated enough, but the lack of holding frames causes it too look too game-y. I think this show would've great benefitted if they held the frames and tried to replicate 2D animation's style. Hell, even some games try to do a better job of mimicking 2D animation. If you've ever seen what ArcSys has done with Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FighterZ, they hold the frames of the character animation to replicate 2D animation. No different from what Studio Orange does with Beastars. Video games and film/animations are separate mediums. For animation, more fluidity ≠ better animation. Your argument is flawed because the video you linked is sloppy itself and it also has trash art and quality overall, it's not even in 1080p. Beastars is better because it has its sense of aesthetics. I find this trailer appalling as well, and framerate is definitely not the worst thing in it. You can do mental gymnastics all you want, but eyes don't lie. Both the video you linked as a supposedly proof of something and Beastars are not a pleasurable experience for human eyes that are used to quality productions. You want to prove that something is good by linking something that it's worse but have somewhat better framerate? That's not exactly how it works. I see only trash. So would you say any CG work animated in 2s (12 fps) is bad? Even Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse? You know, a movie that's incredibly praised for its animations, despite basically using the same animation techniques as something like Beastars? I mean, it's fine if you don't like CGI in anime. It's very much a preference thing after all. I'm not even all that huge on CGI anyways. But at least you'd say that Beastars has some of the best CG work in the anime medium, right? |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: FpsArena said: All of your criticisms related to Beastars' animation had something to do with the framerate. So I was just bringing up how simply making it more smoother wouldn't necessarily make it look better. For example, for the Tesla Note trailer, wouldn't you say it would've looked better if they held the frames for longer to mimic 2D animation? By having every frame be different from the last, the characters come off as incredibly floaty to me. Especially considering how most animations are done on 2s anyways. Your argument is flawed because the video you linked is sloppy itself and it also has trash art and quality overall, it's not even in 1080p. Beastars is better because it has its sense of aesthetics. I find this trailer appalling as well, and framerate is definitely not the worst thing in it. You can do mental gymnastics all you want, but eyes don't lie. Both the video you linked as a supposedly proof of something and Beastars are not a pleasurable experience for human eyes that are used to quality productions. You want to prove that something is good by linking something that it's worse but have somewhat better framerate? That's not exactly how it works. I see only trash. So would you say any CG work animated in 2s (12 fps) is bad? Even Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse? You know, a movie that's incredibly praised for its animations, despite basically using the same animation techniques as something like Beastars? I mean, it's fine if you don't like CGI in anime. It's very much a preference thing after all. I'm not even all that huge on CGI anyways. But at least you'd say that Beastars has some of the best CG work in the anime medium, right? Not gonna lie, Spider-Man into the spider-verse was an unpleasant experience too. Beastars is a masterpiece compared to it. There are few scenes that are very well directed in Beastars despite the terrible visuals, and I personally think that's what sold it to people. The only non-serious comment I made in this thread is when I said that it's the worst anime I've seen, it was just to trigger that guy. From what I've seen in anime, which is not too much because I can't tolerate full CGI anime yet, Beastars is the best one. But saying something is the best in the group of mediocres doesn't make it good. If this is the best that this industry can offer, we are still very far from being able to express the full range of emotions that we are used to see in 2d anime, and more importantly having a pleasant experience on the eyes. What would you say is the best CG in anime/non anime? |
Pairedecar09 said: He obviously doesn't care about animation Berserk is his favorite anime, he cares about trolling all of you people lmao.Just because the animation isn't the best doesn't mean the anime is bad. I mean there are good things about Beastars that I like such as the plot, the psychological impact of carnivores & herbivores, the slice of life moments & the depth of the characters in it. I wasn't sure of the animation at first, but I am not bothered by it & there are other good anime with that doesn't have the best animation in it as well. |
MasterNeutral said: Pairedecar09 said: He obviously doesn't care about animation Berserk is his favorite anime, he cares about trolling all of you people lmao.Just because the animation isn't the best doesn't mean the anime is bad. I mean there are good things about Beastars that I like such as the plot, the psychological impact of carnivores & herbivores, the slice of life moments & the depth of the characters in it. I wasn't sure of the animation at first, but I am not bothered by it & there are other good anime with that doesn't have the best animation in it as well. I mean that's true lmao, Berserk 97 despite being basically a slide-show fest was way more enjoyable than Beastars. I don't value animation that much. |
FpsArena said: In terms of best CG I've seen from a technical standpoint, the Disney/Pixar stuff is top-tier. But its thanks to their $150-200 million budget that they're able to produce some incredibly detailed CG work with great attention to lighting and particles. In terms of western CG animation done more on a budget, Spider-Verse was something that I really liked. However, it's visual aesthetics were the main selling point for me. I can see it being an unpleasant experience though, since the movie also blurred objects near the camera to mimic the imperfections on a comic book print. I watched the movie with friends in theaters and one of the guys that was with me started getting motion sickness. GoldenDevilGamer said: All of your criticisms related to Beastars' animation had something to do with the framerate. So I was just bringing up how simply making it more smoother wouldn't necessarily make it look better. For example, for the Tesla Note trailer, wouldn't you say it would've looked better if they held the frames for longer to mimic 2D animation? By having every frame be different from the last, the characters come off as incredibly floaty to me. Especially considering how most animations are done on 2s anyways. So would you say any CG work animated in 2s (12 fps) is bad? Even Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse? You know, a movie that's incredibly praised for its animations, despite basically using the same animation techniques as something like Beastars? I mean, it's fine if you don't like CGI in anime. It's very much a preference thing after all. I'm not even all that huge on CGI anyways. But at least you'd say that Beastars has some of the best CG work in the anime medium, right? Not gonna lie, Spider-Man into the spider-verse was an unpleasant experience too. Beastars is a masterpiece compared to it. There are few scenes that are very well directed in Beastars despite the terrible visuals, and I personally think that's what sold it to people. The only non-serious comment I made in this thread is when I said that it's the worst anime I've seen, it was just to trigger that guy. From what I've seen in anime, which is not too much because I can't tolerate full CGI anime yet, Beastars is the best one. But saying something is the best in the group of mediocres doesn't make it good. If this is the best that this industry can offer, we are still very far from being able to express the full range of emotions that we are used to see in 2d anime, and more importantly having a pleasant experience on the eyes. What would you say is the best CG in anime/non anime? In terms of best CG I've seen in anime, Beastars and Land of the Lustrous stands out to me the most (both by the same studio). Especially in Land of the Lustrous, where they used the CG to their advantage to make some incredibly dynamic shots during action scenes. Some of the action would've been nearly impossible to hand-draw with how much the camera moved. Like, there was this one fight that was a minute long and done in one-shot (the camera never cuts to a different position). Moments like those made me feel like the anime was CG because it was the only way they could present the story, rather than it was CG because it would save time and money, which isn't something I can say for a lot of CG anime unfortunately. Undoubtedly, there's a lot of CG anime that's just CG just so they can get it animated faster. And a lot of those CG anime don't take the camera advantage that they have and make more dynamic shots. I'd say Beastars wasn't as creatively animated as Land of the Lustrous, but it still had some highlight moments. For a CG anime, I thought the character models were quite detailed and its custom lighting/shading helped the characters blend with the backgrounds nicely. A lot of CG anime leaves all of the lighting/shading up to the computer, but in Beastars, each character is manually given shading highlights and their shading isn't respective to the light source in any given scene. Like, characters would move around, but the shading on their fur remains the same at times. Stuff like that helps the anime to have a more 2D animation aesthetic. That being said though, animating CG in 2s could make the character animation come out as stiff. I personally really liked but, but I can understand why people would have issues with it. |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: FpsArena said: In terms of best CG I've seen from a technical standpoint, the Disney/Pixar stuff is top-tier. But its thanks to their $150-200 million budget that they're able to produce some incredibly detailed CG work with great attention to lighting and particles. In terms of western CG animation done more on a budget, Spider-Verse was something that I really liked. However, it's visual aesthetics were the main selling point for me. I can see it being an unpleasant experience though, since the movie also blurred objects near the camera to mimic the imperfections on a comic book print. I watched the movie with friends in theaters and one of the guys that was with me started getting motion sickness. Not gonna lie, Spider-Man into the spider-verse was an unpleasant experience too. Beastars is a masterpiece compared to it. There are few scenes that are very well directed in Beastars despite the terrible visuals, and I personally think that's what sold it to people. The only non-serious comment I made in this thread is when I said that it's the worst anime I've seen, it was just to trigger that guy. From what I've seen in anime, which is not too much because I can't tolerate full CGI anime yet, Beastars is the best one. But saying something is the best in the group of mediocres doesn't make it good. If this is the best that this industry can offer, we are still very far from being able to express the full range of emotions that we are used to see in 2d anime, and more importantly having a pleasant experience on the eyes. What would you say is the best CG in anime/non anime? In terms of best CG I've seen in anime, Beastars and Land of the Lustrous stands out to me the most (both by the same studio). Especially in Land of the Lustrous, where they used the CG to their advantage to make some incredibly dynamic shots during action scenes. Some of the action would've been nearly impossible to hand-draw with how much the camera moved. Like, there was this one fight that was a minute long and done in one-shot (the camera never cuts to a different position). Moments like those made me feel like the anime was CG because it was the only way they could present the story, rather than it was CG because it would save time and money, which isn't something I can say for a lot of CG anime unfortunately. Undoubtedly, there's a lot of CG anime that's just CG just so they can get it animated faster. And a lot of those CG anime don't take the camera advantage that they have and make more dynamic shots. I'd say Beastars wasn't as creatively animated as Land of the Lustrous, but it still had some highlight moments. For a CG anime, I thought the character models were quite detailed and its custom lighting/shading helped the characters blend with the backgrounds nicely. A lot of CG anime leaves all of the lighting/shading up to the computer, but in Beastars, each character is manually given shading highlights and their shading isn't respective to the light source in any given scene. Like, characters would move around, but the shading on their fur remains the same at times. Stuff like that helps the anime to have a more 2D animation aesthetic. That being said though, animating CG in 2s could make the character animation come out as stiff. I personally really liked but, but I can understand why people would have issues with it. I hard agree about Disney. I think that Zootopia work was really impressive. But it was still rendered at 24 fps, which I think is obsolete to be honest especially with 3d animation. You said that it takes no effort to interpolate frames before, and that is true. I watched Zootopia at home at 60 fps on my PC with SVP. I have a good PC and a high bitrate original copy of the film. Of course it's never going to be the same as native 60 fps, but it is undeniably smoother. And yes sometimes it can look unnatural, but just because you are creating frames that never existed. It is overall a much better way to watch Zootopia imo. I also recognize that rendering these works in native 60 fps would just take too much space. And thanks for your detailed comments, I'll give Land of Lustrous a try at some point. |
FpsArenaJul 17, 2021 12:50 PM
Infernalization said: Lol, the animation is amazing, even blind people can see that. If my assumption is right then you probably just don't like the artstyle, which is totally fine, the artstyle is not for everyone. Wdym I'm blind and I can't see that. But I heard it's the best thing ever created by mankind since pizza. |
| The artstyle is amazing but... Why is that video games like naruto ultimate ninja storm, or Dragon ball fighter Z have such amazing anime-styled 3D Animation, but 3D Anime is always so "choppy" and low-fps? It is really not about hating 3D for being 3D, it's more that you expect it to be done better, since it's been proven many times to be possible by video games. A would actually give this series a 10/10, but the framerate was visibly annoying at times |
rsc-pl said: FpsArena said: N I'm so disappointed, everyone says that the animation is amazing and reviewers give high praise but it is so bad. Because people are praising everything 3D that doesn't look like Berserk which is ridiculous. I don't know. Everything that I love about anime in a/v aspects (except voice acting) is permanently lost in 3D animation no matter how it is done. I tried this series, Houseki no Kuni and few other and everything looks wooden, stiff, sluggish and soulless. It can be done right if someone really cares about achieving the right "feel" to it. It's like in the movies where you don't even notice or think about CGI when it's really good. Check the Animation in Guilty Gear Strive, it is actually hard to believe at times that EVERYTHING is 3D rendered in that game thanks to some clever animation tricks and beautifully done cell-shading. |
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