Who is the father of Konatsu's first child? *SPOIER?*

Sep 30, 2020 9:30 AM

Offline

Sep 2020

1

What if we looked at the bigger picture ?
The mangaka wrote nothing but yaoi mangas, this is her only josei beside a very small recent one, and the whole first season I kept getting gay vibes, I don't think the reason he didn't come out was because of the 50's , cuz in Japan, homosexuality was accepted from very ancient times.
So what I think is this: the bloody mangaka managed to get sekuroku and kikuhiko together and the result was konatsu's firstborn !
It's messed up, and it blowed the beauty of the anime, at the last episode.
I mean why would he do it with her when he rejected her mother who literally throw herself at him ?
I loved the anime because of the culture, the rakogu, but now it's all corrupted with these thoughts .

Oct 9, 2020 7:07 AM

#52

_hakase

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Jun 2020

91

Pretty obvious old man Yakumo pulled off a Woody Allen.

my anime/manga list

Dec 23, 2020 5:02 PM

#53

UfolyCloud

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Oct 2018

75

AryaxHunter said:
It's NEITHER Yakumo NOR the Yakuza Boss.

It is indeed true that Konatsu fell for Yakumo, and flirted with the Yakuza boss and did all the juvenile things to get Yakumo's attention. As it's shown in the manga and the anime, the teenage Konatsu was stormed by both her romantic feelings and hate for Yakumo. She labelled it as "hate" and "wanting to kill him". Only when she grew up that she realized her true feelings for Yakumo- as reported by Yakumo and Konatsu herself. So, she sleeping with Yakumo is out of the question for a young Konatsu, because she herself thought she only hated him. Who would sleep with the person they hate???? And Yakumo clearly says he is only troubled by her feelings and feel sorry for Konatsu thinking of the time when she would finally realize that it's all not hate what she feels for Yakumo. He thought it would be better for her mental health if she continued to believe that she only hated him. So it's actually only sympathy and wanting to protect are yakumo's feelings towards her. It's unlikely he'd just sleep with her once and then continue to live in the house as if nothing happened. Konatsu also thanks him for raising her despite the many tantrums, not for "giving something to treasure" or any other subtle hints.

The yakuza boss himself says he saved her from a lot of trouble with other gangs and random men. And that he would never lay a hand on a kid. Konatsu, who started behaving like a delinquent and trying to seduce the boss was ALREADY pregnant by an unknown man. The only thing he did was to save Konatsu from falling into deeper shit by getting into a different gang (and perhaps into prostitution like her mom) Despite it being none of his business, the boss did it out of respect for Yakumo. And he never denied speculations about him being the dad to save Konatsu from having more trouble (who would dare call names if she's the yakuza's woman? even in an era where single moms are frowned upon?). The mistress of the boss also knew it, that's why she was kind and protective towards Konatsu. That's also the debt that Yakumo says that he can never repay. Coz imagine the kid having to grow up not knowing the father's name?? That's also the reason Konatsu keeps it a secret. Speculations are better than not knowing. And as far as the kid is concerned, he has a father- Yotaro

So PLEASE don't disrespect those nice two elderly men, and re-read the manga to figure it out. The clues that you claim are only to confuse you and now you will see a different meaning to the dialogues. :)

This is the best explanation I read here. Thanks, because I was getting confused by this thread (and worried/grossed out). Thanks for clearing things up. You managed to summarize the stuff I was considering but couldn't really form into a coherent sentence.

Jan 6, 2021 10:12 AM

#54

ImagoDaruma

Offline

Oct 2020

2

Smoku said:
Isn't it...

Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details.

It is! This is the whole point of the second season. People that don't get it couldn't understand way the woman (forgot her name sorry) behaved the way she did the entire show. The scene in the restaurant/Cafe also confirmed it. Just re-watch it and you will see.

Mar 4, 2021 5:59 PM

#55

Levais

Offline

Jul 2016

42

AryaxHunter said:
It's NEITHER Yakumo NOR the Yakuza Boss.

It is indeed true that Konatsu fell for Yakumo, and flirted with the Yakuza boss and did all the juvenile things to get Yakumo's attention. As it's shown in the manga and the anime, the teenage Konatsu was stormed by both her romantic feelings and hate for Yakumo. She labelled it as "hate" and "wanting to kill him". Only when she grew up that she realized her true feelings for Yakumo- as reported by Yakumo and Konatsu herself. So, she sleeping with Yakumo is out of the question for a young Konatsu, because she herself thought she only hated him. Who would sleep with the person they hate???? And Yakumo clearly says he is only troubled by her feelings and feel sorry for Konatsu thinking of the time when she would finally realize that it's all not hate what she feels for Yakumo. He thought it would be better for her mental health if she continued to believe that she only hated him. So it's actually only sympathy and wanting to protect are yakumo's feelings towards her. It's unlikely he'd just sleep with her once and then continue to live in the house as if nothing happened. Konatsu also thanks him for raising her despite the many tantrums, not for "giving something to treasure" or any other subtle hints.

The yakuza boss himself says he saved her from a lot of trouble with other gangs and random men. And that he would never lay a hand on a kid. Konatsu, who started behaving like a delinquent and trying to seduce the boss was ALREADY pregnant by an unknown man. The only thing he did was to save Konatsu from falling into deeper shit by getting into a different gang (and perhaps into prostitution like her mom) Despite it being none of his business, the boss did it out of respect for Yakumo. And he never denied speculations about him being the dad to save Konatsu from having more trouble (who would dare call names if she's the yakuza's woman? even in an era where single moms are frowned upon?). The mistress of the boss also knew it, that's why she was kind and protective towards Konatsu. That's also the debt that Yakumo says that he can never repay. Coz imagine the kid having to grow up not knowing the father's name?? That's also the reason Konatsu keeps it a secret. Speculations are better than not knowing. And as far as the kid is concerned, he has a father- Yotaro

So PLEASE don't disrespect those nice two elderly men, and re-read the manga to figure it out. The clues that you claim are only to confuse you and now you will see a different meaning to the dialogues. :)

Just perfect, it's exactly as you say, this comment is the answer to all questions. I don't understand how the people think, even after reading the special chapter, that the father is Bon. Also, for further confirmation, it's revealed that Bon's only love is Shin (we already knew, but one more confirmation never hurts).

Aug 19, 2021 4:19 AM

#56

Von_1295

Offline

Jan 2021

59

Czar said:
Well, the last episode pretty much answers this question.

who is the father?

Sep 26, 2021 9:09 PM

#57

UltimateKai

Offline

Oct 2020

700

Oussamabenzekou said:

AryaxHunter said:
It's NEITHER Yakumo NOR the Yakuza Boss.

It is indeed true that Konatsu fell for Yakumo, and flirted with the Yakuza boss and did all the juvenile things to get Yakumo's attention. As it's shown in the manga and the anime, the teenage Konatsu was stormed by both her romantic feelings and hate for Yakumo. She labelled it as "hate" and "wanting to kill him". Only when she grew up that she realized her true feelings for Yakumo- as reported by Yakumo and Konatsu herself. So, she sleeping with Yakumo is out of the question for a young Konatsu, because she herself thought she only hated him. Who would sleep with the person they hate???? And Yakumo clearly says he is only troubled by her feelings and feel sorry for Konatsu thinking of the time when she would finally realize that it's all not hate what she feels for Yakumo. He thought it would be better for her mental health if she continued to believe that she only hated him. So it's actually only sympathy and wanting to protect are yakumo's feelings towards her. It's unlikely he'd just sleep with her once and then continue to live in the house as if nothing happened. Konatsu also thanks him for raising her despite the many tantrums, not for "giving something to treasure" or any other subtle hints.

The yakuza boss himself says he saved her from a lot of trouble with other gangs and random men. And that he would never lay a hand on a kid. Konatsu, who started behaving like a delinquent and trying to seduce the boss was ALREADY pregnant by an unknown man. The only thing he did was to save Konatsu from falling into deeper shit by getting into a different gang (and perhaps into prostitution like her mom) Despite it being none of his business, the boss did it out of respect for Yakumo. And he never denied speculations about him being the dad to save Konatsu from having more trouble (who would dare call names if she's the yakuza's woman? even in an era where single moms are frowned upon?). The mistress of the boss also knew it, that's why she was kind and protective towards Konatsu. That's also the debt that Yakumo says that he can never repay. Coz imagine the kid having to grow up not knowing the father's name?? That's also the reason Konatsu keeps it a secret. Speculations are better than not knowing. And as far as the kid is concerned, he has a father- Yotaro

So PLEASE don't disrespect those nice two elderly men, and re-read the manga to figure it out. The clues that you claim are only to confuse you and now you will see a different meaning to the dialogues. :)

I wish more people read your comment and know the true answer

This leads me to the question: Why the fuck is Yotarou left to clean up this woman’s life? After she gets to go through whatever she wants, he just accepts whatever she throws at him like idk, someone else’s child? Being a nice friend doesn’t mean accepting this level of ‘using’ for lack of a better term. A nice happy ending doesn’t erase the bad taste this left on my mouth regardless of who the father is. She acts like it’s her right to keep this secret bruh I don’t understand the deepness of this situation like y’all maybe but this is plain wack. So he’s a consolation prize at the end? Piss off. Rewatch s2 ep8 for example and his smile on the bridge when konatsu hugs him and his following comments about her love followed by the scene with the mob boss talking about keeping secrets is proof enough.

UltimateKaiSep 27, 2021 12:14 AM

Sep 28, 2021 9:40 PM

#58

VirgilVerne

Offline

Apr 2021

8

Actor_Irelend719 said:

jeannelle said:

they end up receiving given names when entering rakugo, no?

You don't clearly know the importance of names in Japanese culture. Names are not that easily changed, especially the last names. The last names tends to indicate the familial name that expresses ties with one's family. Therefore, it wasn't given because Shinnosuke has entered into the rakugo, but it was already given when he was already born at that moment. Your point is not plausible because names are not that easy to alter in Japanese culture in general. That's my critique for you, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. :)

Old post, I know, sorry to dig this up but this seems to be nonsense. Kikuhiko is not the last name of the 8th Yakumo Yuurakutei/Bon, it is a stage name assigned by the Rakugo performer's master when they begin performing. Inheriting it does not mean you're related to that person, just as 2nd Sukeroku chose the name Sukeroku for himself even though he had no formal relations to the 1st Sukeroku, and 3rd Sukeroku/Yota also had no relations to the 2nd Sukeroku. Shinn inherited Kikuhiko's stage name as the 5th Kikuhiko due to the 8th Yakumo/4th Kikuhiko being a strong influence for him as shown in the last episode. Shin's last name was not revealed in the series.

Actor_Irelend719 said:

heroyin said:
Kiku IS not the father - confirmed gay by Kumota
https://twitter.com/KUMOHARU/status/1132973187472355328?s=20

I translated it and read the message and it said it was a REMAKE by a BL author. Meaning, it was rewritten by a BL author, making the gay ship or whatever you're talking about. Also, it's interesting that the author him/herself has a Twitter account. Thanks for telling though.

Again, this appears to be incorrect. The original message roughly translates to 'the exhibition "Diversity in Manga LGBT +" at the "Japan House London Library" in the UK, a duplicate original picture [as in the art book shown in the second picture] of "Rakugo Shinjuu" is also exhibited along with my work. It seems that he [the curator] chose it because he is also a writer who draws BL. There is also an exhibition of original manga art [manga in general] at the British Museum, and manga is very popular in the UK, so if you're nearby please join us'. The original point is correct tho, this tweet does not confirm anyone in the series to be gay, merely that the series was displayed due to it being one of Kumo's most distinguished works, and probably for some 'homoerotic overtones'.

AryaxHunter said:
It's NEITHER Yakumo NOR the Yakuza Boss.

It is indeed true that Konatsu fell for Yakumo, and flirted with the Yakuza boss and did all the juvenile things to get Yakumo's attention. As it's shown in the manga and the anime, the teenage Konatsu was stormed by both her romantic feelings and hate for Yakumo. She labelled it as "hate" and "wanting to kill him". Only when she grew up that she realized her true feelings for Yakumo- as reported by Yakumo and Konatsu herself. So, she sleeping with Yakumo is out of the question for a young Konatsu, because she herself thought she only hated him. Who would sleep with the person they hate???? And Yakumo clearly says he is only troubled by her feelings and feel sorry for Konatsu thinking of the time when she would finally realize that it's all not hate what she feels for Yakumo. He thought it would be better for her mental health if she continued to believe that she only hated him. So it's actually only sympathy and wanting to protect are yakumo's feelings towards her. It's unlikely he'd just sleep with her once and then continue to live in the house as if nothing happened. Konatsu also thanks him for raising her despite the many tantrums, not for "giving something to treasure" or any other subtle hints.

The yakuza boss himself says he saved her from a lot of trouble with other gangs and random men. And that he would never lay a hand on a kid. Konatsu, who started behaving like a delinquent and trying to seduce the boss was ALREADY pregnant by an unknown man. The only thing he did was to save Konatsu from falling into deeper shit by getting into a different gang (and perhaps into prostitution like her mom) Despite it being none of his business, the boss did it out of respect for Yakumo. And he never denied speculations about him being the dad to save Konatsu from having more trouble (who would dare call names if she's the yakuza's woman? even in an era where single moms are frowned upon?). The mistress of the boss also knew it, that's why she was kind and protective towards Konatsu. That's also the debt that Yakumo says that he can never repay. Coz imagine the kid having to grow up not knowing the father's name?? That's also the reason Konatsu keeps it a secret. Speculations are better than not knowing. And as far as the kid is concerned, he has a father- Yotaro

So PLEASE don't disrespect those nice two elderly men, and re-read the manga to figure it out. The clues that you claim are only to confuse you and now you will see a different meaning to the dialogues. :)

'It's unlikely he'd just sleep with her once and then continue to live in the house as if nothing happened.' Why is this part relevant? It's not as if they were still living together when Konatsu got pregnant.

'And that he would never lay a hand on a kid. Konatsu, who started behaving like a delinquent and trying to seduce the boss was ALREADY pregnant by an unknown man.'

Are you saying that Konatsu was pregnant as a teenager by an unknown man? If so is this some manga exclusive info?

I think there's quite a lot of info that line up and point towards Shin being Yakumo's son, nothing explicit and concrete. However, I do agree that the biggest hole in the theory is that it seems unlikely Yakumo himself would be willing to sleep with Konatsu, despite some hints towards him feeling guilty about it later on in the series.

Personally, I favour the theory of Yakumo being the father, if only for the pure narrative purpose and that it makes no sense to add that scene if it wasn't the truth. Then again maybe Kumo really did just wanted to mess with us and muddy the water further, and to further illustrate how perfectly imperfect these characters are. Not to mention I honestly thought Miyokichi getting together with Sukeroku was already kind of a gut punch, and remember Miyokichi didn't like Sukeroku first either, so Kumo definitely does not shy away from this kind of uncomfortable soap drama-ish relationship, or the hate/love relationship transition (and yes I do understand that Miyokichi got together with Sukeroku in part to spite Yakumo).

Again, personally, I don't mind any of the outcomes, whether it's the boss, Yakumo, or just someone else. Most people probably found it disturbing, I think that's just how families with skeletons are, and some skeletons are chunkier than others.

In fact, I think Yakumo being the father fits in with Konatsu's character nicely, I'll leave a quote from
Avis Tagular (some guy who wrote a comment on youtube).

'She said she had her son for both Yakumo and Sukeroku's sake, and since she got pregnant ten years after Yota was taken as an apprentice, she had to have been pushing 30. She was afraid of romantic commitment because of her parents so she rejected trying to find an equal partner. She also only gets pregnant when Yakumo really starts showing his age. No matter how much she disdains him, she wants part of him to live on. At that time, felt she couldn't do Rakugo herself, I feel like she was trying to transmit and pass on Rakugo, and keep both her 'fathers' alive the only way she thought a woman could.'

In the end, I don't think it matters who Shin's father was, if last ep shows anything is that despite the tragedies, and impulsive or meandering decisions Konatsu or anyone in the series made, it all turned out fine and everyone was able to move on, including Yakumo and Sukeroku in the afterlife.

VirgilVerneSep 28, 2021 9:48 PM

Jan 22, 2022 2:14 AM

#59

Detector1977

Offline

Mar 2017

104

There are just to many hints all over for Yakumo to be the father. You have to be either extremely ignorant or just refuse to see reality for what it is. Just disturbing to have sex with a person 30 years younger and who he raised since she was a little child. And also disturbing that Yotaru is celebrated for winning the simping world chamipnship. Just disgusting the whole premise that men should pick up the pieces after women have had their hoe phace.
Kotetsu treated him like an afterthought the entire time and the moron swops in like a knight in shining armor and is willing to raise another mans child, that happens to be his master and her foster father. And doing the deed in the same house the Yotaru is living in....
And Kotestu is the real winner here who had here little fun and still got a sucker to take care of her.
Which is EXACTLY what her mother did only that she picked Sukeroku to be the simp and that was a mistake...

Jan 28, 2022 7:38 AM

#60

Daklover77

Offline

Nov 2020

2

I say Yakumo is the father of Shinnosuke imo. When Sensei speaks to Konatsu in the final episode she doesn't flat out say it but she gives out all of the hints as to Yakumo being the father. The Yakuza boss and the Mistress knew of this and kept it a secret. Yotaro might've thought it was the Yakuza boss but it seems he eventually was able to add things up. Konatsu does admit having a moment of love towards Yakumo and having Shinnosuke for Yakumo.
As for the rakugo recital I. the afterlife. Konatsu shows up for Sukeroku but Shinnosuke for Yakumo. Someone stated that he showed up because he wanted to hear his rakugo but Yotaro also did, a person who idolized Yakumo and respected him the most. I feel Yotaro eventually knew but he worshipped Yakumo and rakugo so much that he just let it be. Add the fact that Konatsu gave him a child also helped as well. Just my opinion.

Jan 28, 2022 7:46 AM

#61

Daklover77

Offline

Nov 2020

2

lenalena said:
That volume 10 extra posted just proves that Konatsu loved Yakumo. And that Yakumo felt it was bothersome. I would also like to see the extra that supports him being Shinnosuke's father.

I don't think Yakumo is the father. He just wouldn't have slept with Sukeroku's child. That's not in his character. And it goes against many things he's said in the past in reference to Miyokichi, Sukeroku, and raising Konatsu.

He did hide many secrets. I think one of the main problems of the 2nd season is that a lot of stuff seems to have been left out. I think that's why many things seem unclear to the viewers.

Feb 3, 2022 11:31 PM

#62

TheUnknown13

Offline

Aug 2015

1

[s2e8] The talk with bossman is probably not about this but more about something else that's not disclosed. If I had to make a guess, it might have something to do with how they got acquainted in the first place.

Besides it doesn't make sense for yakumo to tell bossman and mistress about it, and there's no way they'd know it without him telling , unless konatsu told them, which is possible. She might've told mistress and she encouraged her to discuss with bossman, which would be unlikely if it were yakumo, since there's no reason to get him(boss) involved in yakumo's personal matters. Implying it is probably someone else.

I see some arguments citing s2e2 where she said to him ''why are you here during the day''.
To which he says''I asked the association to lighten my load this summer'' meaning she's asking him why he's at home instead of not being busy with some rakugo work and not something else.

[s2e9] ''in return, I'll never take a wife'', this is probably the reason he stayed single.

I see some people who immediately thought it was yakumo because they thought yota and yakumo as the probable option at the time.
There is no reason to think it was yota and absolutely no reason to think it was yakumo at the time, I don't see what their probability is based on.
Unless it is her living under the same roof, which is unbelievably shallow.

As for the last episode,
1)sensei has a terrible track record of predictions about yakumo.
2)konatsu sitting there like 'you couldn't be more wrong about the child, but it is true that I might've had a thing for yakumo when I was younger'.
3)when she said she's taking the secret to grave, she probably left out the real father's name as to not give sensei more clues.

'' I'm a slave to my blood'' probably mean she had a kid to annoy yakumo.

The only compelling argument for thes is the kid's appearance.

Conclusion
The author probably did not decide who the father so he left it vague. So think whatever you want.

TheUnknown13Feb 3, 2022 11:34 PM

Mar 21, 2022 7:25 PM

#63

Yuai

Offline

Jul 2019

56

The "revelation" in the last episode was for them slowpoke, I guessed it at the end of the S1. That's also why I dropped this show.
I'm not a moralist or anything and I can even say it is well written but honestly, it felts disgusting. Everything is understandable even more with the last omake chapter which permit us to learn more about Yakumo feeling about it but still when I learned this, even if it has nothing to do with the "plot", it make me feel so bad and uncomfortable that I couldn't care anymore.

Jul 15, 2022 6:07 AM

#64

andrecdefg

Offline

Sep 2019

1

Old thread, I know... but there really isn't anything conclusive on who Shinnosuke's father is. From reading the manga and watching portions of the show related to the topic it's most likely the yakuza boss, followed by a mystery man related to the yakuza, and then Yakumo.

The Yakuza boss is most likely the father due to Yotaro's confrontation to the yakuza boss and Konatsu's strong reaction to the situation. If the Yakuza boss isn't connected then someone within the yakuza would be the father due to Konatsu's reaction.

Aside from Shinnosuke's appearance there isn't much of a connection with the Yakumo. The Yakumo just cared for Shinnosuke as a grandparent would do and simply has a strained relationship with Konatsu.

Konatsu is just messing with the writer at the end when answering the question and leaves it up in the air. Secrets are important in this story with one being kept from Konatsu and one Konatsu keeps to herself. Yakumo is troubled with his past and tried his best to protect Konatsu and his actions toward her just aren't romantic. Konatsu keeping Shinnosuke's father a secret is most likely due to her wanting to not associate with her past self or to protect someone (which is the hole in the theory that shows Yakumo is the father).

To each their own on who Shinnosuke's father is since there are way too many holes to come to a conclusion. This is just my two cents and personally I believe this subplot on who the father is comes off as awkward in the grand scheme of things.

Aug 14, 2022 9:54 AM

#65

MonthOfFebruary

Offline

Jun 2021

7

Yuai said:
The "revelation" in the last episode was for them slowpoke, I guessed it at the end of the S1. That's also why I dropped this show.
I'm not a moralist or anything and I can even say it is well written but honestly, it felts disgusting. Everything is understandable even more with the last omake chapter which permit us to learn more about Yakumo feeling about it but still when I learned this, even if it has nothing to do with the "plot", it make me feel so bad and uncomfortable that I couldn't care anymore.

same i guessed it at the end of s1 as well when kikuhiko was talking to sukeroku "ghost" saying something like "are you angry, for what i did to your daughter", i thought the meaning of that line was pretty obvious

Aug 19, 2022 7:31 AM

#66

Volkslied

Offline

Mar 2021

36

I truly don't understand why the author had to include that little hint at the end. I was content with the assumption that it was the yakuza boss. Yes, it adds to the drama, but certainly not in a good way. It's disgusting.

one anime, two anime

Oct 31, 2022 12:09 AM

#67

Kriptonid09

Offline

Oct 2022

1

It really is confusing the amount of people that are into the idea of konantsu and yakumo having sex. It's obvious the father was Yotaro's aniki, they have both the same hair texture and eye color palette. The extra chapter explains that konantsu would do things simply to sleight yakumo due to her hatred/love for him. And she herself even states that she is a slave to her blood. You can interpret this as love for yakumo leading to her sleeping with him. But more so within the context of the show it's very obvious she means as her mother wanted yakumos affection but went to another man who was close to him as a substitute.
So did she, heck we can take this interpretation even deeper and say her being a slave to her blood had nothing to do with yakumo at all, but had everything to do with Yotaro and his Aniki set up as parallels to Yakumo and Sukeroku. Yotaro being Yakumo and his Aniki being Sukeroku.

In that way we can even see the drama ending up generationally, but either way I think it's very silly to think that yakumo is the father. It goes against his character and makes no sense from a narrative standpoint. It's wild fanfiction, and this is why the least credible character proposes the theory because it's baseless whimsy.
Again you can just look at Shinnosuke's physical attributes compared to yakumo's aniki when he was young, they're very similar in bot hair texture, color and eyes.

But either way Yakumo is Shinnosuke grandfather and his Shinnosuke is Yakumo's living legacy. He didn't need to have a child to pass on his legacy because as the show kept saying, Rakugo is about the people in and around it. The soul is left with those you love and cherish.

Apr 17, 12:04 PM

#68

Maahir97

Offline

Sep 2018

2

Late to this but after reading the manga that child is definetely Yakumos lol same face and everything. Normally a person would feel insulted if someone insinuated that they slept with their foster father but Konatsu wasnt, she likely kept it secret to preserve Yakumos reputation.

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Who is the father of Konatsu's first child? SPOIER?

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