MyAnimeList.net

Oct 23, 2018 2:02 PM

time is running out

Anime Relations: Noblesse: Awakening

there's always the discussion of anime dying off, that's a fact. but it hasn't died because there's no other medium that compares to anime. using the same old rusted chains for your bike doesn't mean it's doing fine, it's just that it's the only chain you can use. but now it's not the same as it has been before. china is getting stronger connections with their IPs and line has it own animation studio. come the next three years, if anime isn't careful, it will be taken over.

what am i talking about, "if anime isn't careful"? it HASN'T been careful, for all these years. its been arrogant and reckless, and even without china and korea reving up their fryers, anime has been biting itself in the butt for years. it would die eventually, just not as fast if korea and china wasn’t on its tail. and even for the lukewarm content of china, they can easily just grab any webcomic out there. i haven’t read a lot of chinese webcomic if i must be honest, but the ones i have read have given promise (save for one), and at the very least they are different from japan

can japan catch up? sure, japan has time to catch up. but with all these years they could have had to focus on higher things, they didn’t. it’ll be quite a bit of effort for the fans to put their faith in anime again when its taken over.
here’s what happened. when you were looking at FMA 1 and naruto part 1, webtoon was newly being developed. by the time naruto part 2 and FMA2 came out, noblesse had branched webtoon from being korean to global, making way for ToG and god of highschool. in the meantime, anime is still holding onto naruto and bleach being dragged out to hell, the same anime that had been aired long ago. meanwhile webtoon keeps coming out with huge names that stay in their quality, like the breaker and its sequel. it’s being built by the foundations of new quality stories as the years went by, while anime was still relying on the power of bleach and naruto. now look what happens. anime only has one trump card left, one piece. they’re lucky that almost the entire country is obsessed with it or else who knows what state it would be in now. in a way, looking at the sorry state of manga and anime compared to webtoon is like looking at the carefulness of marvel back in 2008 and the rushed style of DCEU. it’s mindnumbing how wholly ignorant weebs are even now, with their precious industry in danger and they don’t even know the name of what’s killing it. man will they have a wakeup call in the next 3yrs.

anyways, as i said before anime can improve. it will HAVE to, or it will die. but that definitely won’t happen until after it gets demolished by either donghua or aeni, maybe even both. Oh and don’t think manga won’t be touched either. finally, something interesting happening to the industry.

Posted by TomDay | Oct 23, 2018 2:02 PM | 13 comments

	pluvia33 \| Nov 9, 2018 9:25 PM Yep, sounds good. See you in 2020. ^_^ Blog - Comment

TomDay | Nov 9, 2018 12:44 PM

Yes, it absolutely is up for interpretation and preferences. The quality of art is scientifically subjective.

nope. it really isn't. BNHA has some of the same formula as any other shounen out there. therefore, it is not special, it is not unique. these are proven facts. but i'm not here to talk about the story, it's for another post.

Cool, in your opinion.

>says i can factually prove something
>"in your opinion"

Personally, I would 100% disagree with this statement. I feel that there are many great things coming out nowadays. Looking through my list, there are at least 20 things that I’ve watched which I feel are of comparable or better quality than My Hero Academia which came out in the last three years. And this is just out of the stuff I’ve watched.

as i said it doesn't matter in the long run since literally 9 times out of 10 these anime get no sequels in their already 12-15 episode seasons.

Bwahaha!! “Lost the trust of fans” IS a loss in popularity!! Bleach lost popularity and therefore it was cancelled. I fail to see the irony here as you’re helping to prove my point without knowing it.... Maybe that’s ironic??

i really have to explain this don't i?
because of the loss of quality, the fans became uninterested and it lost viewership. it did not suddenly die because fans hated it for no reason. therefore, the loss of quality is what did it for fans, no matter how popular bleach was BEFORE its fall.

NOPE! “Adapting to the changing times” is NOT equal to “revolutionary”. For something to be revolutionary, a dramatic change has to take place. Adapting to changing times is just something that any business needs to make sure they do or they’ll die. That’s like calling a video rental place slowly phasing out its stock of VHS tapes to make room for DVDs as a “revolutionary” decision. On the other hand, having video streaming services come into prominence and whipping out the existence of most video rental places, THAT was revolutionary.

adapting to what times though. this is the only example you have brought up of BNHA's airing choices. therefore, using that logic, it would be perfectly fine for me to believe it was something revolutionary.

This statement seriously almost made me throw up a little in my mouth....

you still have provided no examples.

I’d never want Hero to take the place of One Piece, since I don’t like One Piece. That’d just be gross.

you don't want it? what does your feelings have to do with anything? i thought we were talking from a business perspective. and as a businessman, would not you want it to take the place of OP since it's the most successful manga in existence? not that it would be possible, but still.

Cool. If a studio had to close down, then it was weak and should have died. That is business. Though I find the statement of “participated in popular anime series” to be a bit questionable.

Manglobe Anime Studio Files for Bankruptcy

Shinichiro Kobayashi and Takashi Kochiyama founded Manglobe in 2002. The studio produced such series as Samurai Champloo, The World God Only Knows franchise, Hayate the Combat Butler franchise, Samurai Flamenco, Gangsta., and this November's Genocidal Organ film.

these anime were pretty popular, were they not?
Production IMS Consolidates Debt, Considers Filing for Bankruptcy
it even won an award this year and is known for the again, popular series of date a live.
Amo Subcontracting Anime Studio Files for Bankruptcy

TSR reported that amo was founded in 1993, and had 3 million yen (about US$27,000) in capital. The studio is credited for production assistance and subcontracting work on various anime projects, including Oreimo, Castle Town Dandelion, Psycho-Pass, The IDOLM@STER, High School DxD BorN, Yuri!!! on Ice, Twin Star Exorcists, and most recently, four episodes of Black Clover.

all these popular series, yet they're already thinking of shutting down.

just search up bankrupt in ANN and you'll see result after result.

If they weren’t a major part of the production, then they wouldn’t get much in a share of the product’s success. They would have likely just gotten a flat rate for their work and that be it. Many factors could have be a part of why they went bankrupt. Now, I wouldn’t say that everything is perfect in the anime industry. There are definitely issues. The Committee system can be very toxic and artists/animators don’t get paid enough. But I don’t see it as a quality issue; I see it as a business and management issue.

given my proofs above, i don't need to reply to this.

You know the true ONE true difference between Webtoon and the “monsters of manga”? Webtoon is “free”!!

daum's app (paired with piccoma) makes you pay for your stories and it's #2 on the most used manga app in japan. working on #1.

You can enjoy Webtoon as much as you want, but there is absolutely no objective difference in the quality of the average Webtoon and the average manga. None.

didn't you just say that quality/art is subjective and is up for opinion? it looks like you're doing exactly the opposite of what you said beforehand. interesting.

The only leg up that Webtoon has is that it’s free and distributed digitally. It therefore has a wider and easier range of exposure. It’s really easy for something that’s free to “surpass” something that you have to pay for when the two things are of comparable quality.

i already proved you wrong with piccoma (link here) there for i'm not replying to this.

um...that would make it their....opinion?

You can’t make the same argument when comparing Webtoon and manga or their respective adaptations (existing or hypothetical). From what I’ve seen, the quality between the two is comparable and that is it. A judgement between how “good” they are compared to each other is entirely subjective.

you just proved your own argument wrong by saying there is no difference of quality and manga. you are judging quality and as the same time saying it cannot be judged.

I know that you said you have stuff going on and weren’t able to respond to everything in my last comment, but I do feel like I made some of my most important points after where you stopped. But yeah, that’s understandable; it was a shit load of writing to go though. I hope things are okay. But yeah, I don’t feel like I ignored anything in your original post. I definitely acknowledged the existence of Korea and China and the fact that they are getting deeper into the animation game. I look forward to this “whole other ball game” that you speak of. It will be interesting, I’m sure. I’ll mark my calendar....

this is actually the best part of your reply, because as i said i'm not here for an argument but a discussion. maybe you addressed that in your previous post, i have no clue since i didn't have time to reply to everything. i understand that marking your calendar is a figure of speech but i really would like for everything to be put on hold for the next two years coming up. 2019 is only 2 months away. i'm not saying wait for 2020 as well but 19 would be a good starting point. that way, we can see if either was in the right. i hate wasting unneeded time and arguing over something that can be proven right or wrong withing 2 months is ridiculous to me.

I again fail to see the irony. Are you saying that just because I don’t see or understand how quality is a tangible, objective thing doesn’t mean that 100% objective quality doesn’t exist?? Okay.

um, yes actually considering you broke your own proposal twice already. you said it is "absolutely" up for interpretation. "absolutely" meaning completely, wholly, totally, 100%.

The only “objective” measure of Hero’s lack of quality is that it’s similar to the average shounen formula?? So what? Why does that even matter. You can say that every Quentin Tarantino movie is very similar to the average formula of some genre, but many people consider his films to be objectively great. You love the MCU, but those are some of the most formulaic movies in existence. That doesn’t make them bad or of low quality. Again, as I mentioned in my previous comment, I love those movies, too!

i haven't looked at a single movie of this tarantino guy, i only know that people hate him for including "the n word" in his movies. my liking the MCU doesn't change (or make) how bad or good it is, i simply said i was a fan. but even for my saying this i will concede that this isn't exactly a strong point of my argument because i didn't clarify what i meant to say, which is that BNHA is not special/unique, something that webtoon has and it does not. it follows the shounen formula too much for it to be labeled that.

Because it’s “free”!! Again, from my observations, Webtoon is comparable to manga in quality at best when it comes to both story and art. I can MAYBE see you thinking Webtoon is objectively superior if you’ve only been exposed to the stuff that you’ve mentioned here. Otherwise, it’s just a matter of tastes, and that’s okay. Good for you for finding something that you enjoy more than anime/manga. I hope you get many great adaptations of your favorites. I hope you really do have a lot to look forward to next year. Good luck!

i already brought up piccoma so skipping that.
i have actually read way more manga and watched more anime than webtoon, so i don't have a restricted POV. i'm not denying that webtoon being online has a gigantic hold above manga, and have said so repeatedly for a long time. that alone kills the industry by a lot. but that can't be the only case, because korean webtoon still has a billion-yen hold above japan in their webtoon industry as well. they're both online, you still have to pay for some of their most popular stories, so the only thing left to compare is yet again, the quality.

i would be lying if i said i wasn't hyped for what korea and china are going to do for the next upcoming new years, but that's very irrelevant to what's at hand. it's happening whether i want it to or not.

i brought up one piece and a big example, not my sore one. i brought up naruto, FMA, bleach and FMA2 as well as OP. you have only, so far, relied heavily on boku academia. and as i said before, i'm not trying to be stupid and i realise it is indeed a breath of fresh air from these tragic anime nowadays and of course would be a go to example. but the reason why i said it's your only example is because it is - there are no other anime nearly as exciting as boku academia. black clover, maybe, but still that's only two examples.

Nearly all non-shounen/non-kid’s anime ditched that release strategy long ago, so also mentioning that shows like Natsume’s Book of Friends and many other shows are also following this kind of release schedule didn’t seem important.

natsume is getting raped just as i said anime did to naruto and bleach and etc. when natsume ends, what is left? what are some other examples? an argument has to be backed up by multiple sources, multiple proofs.

As a shounen series, the My Hero Academia manga comes out rather quickly. They typically only needs a 6 or 9 month break in the anime to gain enough source material to adapt another set of episodes, as seen already with the first three seasons.

it hadn't caught up with the manga then though. it was just undergoing animation, not waiting to catch up. unless you can prove me wrong, which of course is perfectly fine.

Each season gets very close to becoming current with the most recent chapters and they only need less than a year to have enough new content to adapt into more anime. That is why they WON’T reach the same problem as long-running shounen series. That is my point. Smart business.

hm, at this point, it really doesn't even matter. as i said boku is only one example and it could be as valid and anything, we have nothing else to point and say "see, they're doing this as well!" so there really isn't much to talk about. i already agreed that this is a good way to choosing to air the show, but that's not enough we need more than one show. so i'm not going to argue boku being bad or good anymore, the points were proven and all. it's time for some fresh examples.

thanks for taking the time out at your work. i would never suggest wasting your time at something like that to talk about something much less important but i am still grateful nonetheless. and as i am imploring for the 3rd time i would much rather wait around and discuss before 2019 than try to arguing with proofs that will be proven wrong or right very soon.

Blog - Comment

pluvia33 | Nov 7, 2018 3:00 PM

no, a masterpiece and a crappy story isn’t up for interpretation or preference.

Yes, it absolutely is up for interpretation and preferences. The quality of art is scientifically subjective.

i can pick out, fact by fact, that boku academia isn’t what the fans crack it up to be.

Cool, in your opinion.

as i said before, it surpasses by heads and tails with the current horrible BS being thrown up over and over nowadays, and for that, i can understand the fans’ praise.

popularity does not win out in the end or else bleach wouldn’t have been cancelled. it wasn’t cancelled because the popularity was dying, it’s because it became a hot mess and lost the trust of fans. this is rather ironic for me to bring up since you brought this up in the first place.

the big 3 (which, btw, will never happen again, but that’s another subject)

Good! The “Big 3” was one of the worst things to ever happen to anime.

my point of bringing up one piece is because it is essentially the essence of not only shounen, but anime itself.

This statement seriously almost made me throw up a little in my mouth....

i don’t believe that even in the artists’ wildest dreams, boku academia will be able to take the place of one piece when it ends.

I’d never want Hero to take the place of One Piece, since I don’t like One Piece. That’d just be gross.

for proof, i want to see how the industry will react when it finally ends and see just how much of a mad scramble everyone will be in to keep it up.

Again, I look forward to the end of the “big” shows, but I’m kind of confused as to what you think they need to keep up.

within the year, at least FIVE japanese animation studios have shut down, ALL of them declaring bankruptcy. many of them participated in popular anime series (which as i said before, gets one or two seasons and then die), yet that couldn’t save them. that doesn’t tell you anything? you still believe everything is going fine?

Cool. If a studio had to close down, then it was weak and should have died. That is business. Though I find the statement of “participated in popular anime series” to be a bit questionable. If they weren’t a major part of the production, then they wouldn’t get much in a share of the product’s success. They would have likely just gotten a flat rate for their work and that be it. Many factors could have be a part of why they went bankrupt. Now, I wouldn’t say that everything is perfect in the anime industry. There are definitely issues. The Committee system can be very toxic and artists/animators don’t get paid enough. But I don’t see it as a quality issue; I see it as a business and management issue.

and these stories differ from anime because of one thing - quality.

NOPE!! That is NOT the “one thing” that they differ on....

in fact, some webtoon has already rivaled and surpassed some of the monsters of manga, such as naruto and bleach.

You know the true ONE true difference between Webtoon and the “monsters of manga”? Webtoon is “free”!! You can enjoy Webtoon as much as you want, but there is absolutely no objective difference in the quality of the average Webtoon and the average manga. None. The only leg up that Webtoon has is that it’s free and distributed digitally. It therefore has a wider and easier range of exposure. It’s really easy for something that’s free to “surpass” something that you have to pay for when the two things are of comparable quality.

as i said before, liking something or not is up to the person. it doesn’t change what it actually is. a warm, homemade cookie is better than a cookie doused with rotten milk. fact. whether a person prefers the rotten cookie doesn’t change that the homemade one is still superior.

False equivalence. This would be an appropriate comparison if you were judging the quality between anime to a flip book of a stick figure man walking. Some people might find the stick figure man to be more charming and therefore like it better, but anime is still objectively superior. You can’t make the same argument when comparing Webtoon and manga or their respective adaptations (existing or hypothetical). From what I’ve seen, the quality between the two is comparable and that is it. A judgement between how “good” they are compared to each other is entirely subjective.

as you said yourself, the series isn’t even 3yrs old. there is no way the industry can repair itself by its releasing strategy after literal decades of destructive blows it did to itself. and as i said in my original post (and what you ignore) is that there is a whole other ball game that’s going to happen next year.

it’s too late. they’ll just have to learn the full results of their failure when they eventually get surpassed.

Oh, okay.

rather ironic you say this since its exactly what i’m saying when you say that quality isn’t concrete.

it’s not that i don’t like the characters, it’s not that i don’t like the premise, the only reason i do not like boku academia is because it’s not nearly the quality fans say it is. when i say it is “boring”, that is my preference. but when i point out how similar it is of the average shounen formula, that is fact.

so here’s a question for you: if quality really was that useless, why is webtoon rivaling and in some cases surpassing manga if it wasn’t for their famously known unique and high quality stories?

keep in mind you’re only talking about one anime.

Yes, and? This is a specific situation that I brought up because you held up One Piece as the epitome of success in anime. In the changing business climate, the old constant release strategy that One Piece uses is obsolete for new properties. Nearly all non-shounen/non-kid’s anime ditched that release strategy long ago, so also mentioning that shows like Natsume’s Book of Friends and many other shows are also following this kind of release schedule didn’t seem important.

S4 means it’s nearing it’s end of an already extremely new series. come on, a business student such as yourself should realise this. they will still have to suffer and wait for new content to come out. seeing S4 is coming out, the content of the story is nearly swallowed. eventually, they will reach the same problem of long-term shounen has and catch up entirely. they’ll either be forced to wait a year or so for new content or just fall back on fillers.

Ummm, what?? I don’t know how this has anything to do with me being in business, but I already answered this “problem” in my last comment, in a section of text which you quoted (but just said that you didn’t need to reply to it). As a shounen series, the My Hero Academia manga comes out rather quickly. They typically only needs a 6 or 9 month break in the anime to gain enough source material to adapt another set of episodes, as seen already with the first three seasons. Each season gets very close to becoming current with the most recent chapters and they only need less than a year to have enough new content to adapt into more anime. That is why they WON’T reach the same problem as long-running shounen series. That is my point. Smart business.

Anyway, it’s almost time for me to leave work so I need to send this off. Hopefully I didn’t make any big mistakes. No rush on a response, man. I just respond quick because it’s a good way to kill time at work. Just give me a poke when you do respond just in case I’m not checking up on the post. Later!!

Blog - Comment

TomDay | Nov 7, 2018 12:27 PM

Well, shit. I absolutely missed/forgot that part of that comment. Probably brushed it off since it wasn’t really relevant to the overall discussion. And to go as far as saying you “don’t find anyone on this site rude” is rather impressive after looking at the “Forum Posts” stat on your profile. I tried to be more active in the MAL forums, but found them to be rather toxic and unconstructive overall. Maybe I’m just getting too old to put up with too many people’s bullshit. That’s why I end up checking MAL’s crappy Blog page in search of people who actually use their blog AS A BLOG instead of just a billboard to show little graphics they make or extensions of their profile. I also end up randomly commenting on some people’s profiles when I see interesting reviews pop up on my Panel. But that’s way off topic here....

the toxicity of MAL is focused on their anime section, which if you really checked my blog posts, i barely touch. it’s also where the most stupid of fans are. it may seem rude, but that’s really what i believe. very little intelligent talk goes down there. i seem to remember saying this before but perhaps not to you: i mainly stay in my own webtoon club i partly administrate and look around for new talk in the manga section. that’s how i stay sane. if i was in the anime section up to now i would have left the site long ago.

even so, as completely ignorant and undesirable as i find them, i have never found them rude.

Okay, so the issue with debating the “quality” of My Hero Academia and anything for that matter is that quality is largely suggestive. For example, I personally do not like One Piece. I also have a rather large amount of disdain for Death Note. However, I can’t deny the popularity of those series and that’s what matters in the end.

no, a masterpiece and a crappy story isn’t up for interpretation or preference. i can pick out, fact by fact, that boku academia isn’t what the fans crack it up to be. as i said before, it surpasses by heads and tails with the current horrible BS being thrown up over and over nowadays, and for that, i can understand the fans’ praise. but that doesn’t mean they are in the right. you can choose not to like a certain product (and THAT makes it preference and opinion), but that doesn’t change its actual quality.

popularity does not win out in the end or else bleach wouldn’t have been cancelled. it wasn’t cancelled because the popularity was dying, it’s because it became a hot mess and lost the trust of fans. this is rather ironic for me to bring up since you brought this up in the first place.

What I’m talking about is that the traditional long-running shounen adaptation style had been determined to be too much of a risk and becoming obsolete. The fact that they’re adapting a shounen series isn’t revolutionary at all (and that is not a term that I used). I said that they are being smart to adapt to the times. My Hero Academia could have just as easily been another long-running constant stream of episodes like Naruto and Bleach. But learning from past mistakes and understanding that entertainment consumption is changing, they’ve decided to go with broken up seasons instead so they don’t have to screw over the pacing and pad the anime version out with random filler episodes.

“revolutionary” isn’t the term you used, but it means the same thing as “adapting to the changing time”, especially since anime has all been the same for so long, this makes sense to be used. essentially, i just thesaurus’d you.

as for the new take on how shounen is being aired, i admit that is a good idea and wait to see if it will prove itself to be a strong hold on the industry. however i don’t think you clarified that in your previous post, thus why i assumed you meant sorely adapted boku academia was some sort of genius move. you clarified yourself now and i am grateful for that.

This is exactly my point of praising My Hero Academia in the context of this discussion; not for its quality (though, again, I personally love it), but for the structure they are using with the series. They are NOT making stupid amounts of filler content to pad out the series. They are going on “hiatus”, if you want to call it that, in between each season so they don’t have to do filler. It’s a shounen manga, so new content comes out rather quickly. They take a break for 6 to 9 months and then come out with the next set of episodes. It’s not so much a “hiatus” as it is a smart release schedule.

since you clarified yourself beforehand i don’t need to reply to this.

Again, this feels very contrary to your other points. You talk about how the anime industry can’t afford to lose its big titles, but then also call the big titles a roadblock for other things to rise up. Fun fact: the anime for My Hero Academia came out in 2016. It’s only two and a half years old. As it came up to be a success, many other shows will have the opportunity to do the same when that and One Piece eventually end. I’ll also love to see what happens to the industry when the baggage of shows like One Piece and Detective Conan are out of the way.

that wasn’t my point but okay, let’s say other stories come up after boku academia. there is no guarantee they will be close or rise the already “okay” quality of it, there is no guarantee they will last longer, and there is no guarantee they will come within miles of the success of the big 3 (which, btw, will never happen again, but that’s another subject). now onto what i was saying. my point of bringing up one piece is because it is essentially the essence of not only shounen, but anime itself. i don’t believe that even in the artists’ wildest dreams, boku academia will be able to take the place of one piece when it ends. for proof, i want to see how the industry will react when it finally ends and see just how much of a mad scramble everyone will be in to keep it up.

and that, my friend, is exactly what’s eating up the industry from the inside out. thank you for saying that.

within the year, at least FIVE japanese animation studios have shut down, ALL of them declaring bankruptcy. many of them participated in popular anime series (which as i said before, gets one or two seasons and then die), yet that couldn’t save them. that doesn’t tell you anything? you still believe everything is going fine?

and again, you are talking in a vacuum of anime itself. you would have been valid in discussing such things a couple years ago, but no more. anime can’t just keep shrugging off quality and keep hiding behind “welp, it’s popular at least”. for one thing, that’s how they ended up biting theirselves in the ass in the first place, and secondly (and most importantly) they will have not one but two rivals that will fight for their spot in the same medium it’s is. and these stories differ from anime because of one thing - quality. in fact, some webtoon has already rivaled and surpassed some of the monsters of manga, such as naruto and bleach.

It’s an INDUSTRY and all business is measured in successes, not some abstract measure of “quality” that can be vastly different from person to person.

As far as what’s stopping Hero from sharing the same fate as Bleach is what I just said: it’s release strategy. Yes, even in the manga (from what I’ve heard) Bleach kind of went off the rails and got blotted with its storylines. However, that problem was exacerbated in the anime by the filler arcs that went even further away from the core storylines. My Hero doesn’t have that issue because the release schedule doesn’t require the same amount of filler and padding.

And yes, the fact that My Hero is popular is also a big factor and just because you don’t see the quality of the series does not mean that it’s not there.

rather ironic you say this since its exactly what i’m saying when you say that quality isn’t concrete.

Again, I have to scratch my head to understand why the hell One Piece and Death Note get as much praise as they do. In the end, I except it because I understand that they just aren’t to my taste and I move on.

looking at this, it makes me look at fans who don’t like or aren’t interested in HXH (2011). without a doubt, its quality is high tier, yet they don’t like it. this doesn’t change that HXH is the near masterpiece of a show that it is. i don’t like the shojou genre. it doesn’t change the quality that is holds (although i have yet to see proof of that).
but my reason is completely different. it’s not that i don’t like the characters, it’s not that i don’t like the premise, the only reason i do not like boku academia is because it’s not nearly the quality fans say it is. when i say it is “boring”, that is my preference. but when i point out how similar it is of the average shounen formula, that is fact.

very good. glad to see we have something in common. so here’s a question for you: if quality really was that useless, why is webtoon rivaling and in some cases surpassing manga if it wasn’t for their famously known unique and high quality stories?

When a discussion comes up about an industry suffering, my mind automatically thinks in terms of business. And what My Hero is doing makes good business sense. Not only does the breaking into seasons help fix the typical shounen filler issue, it also makes the series more marketable overseas. Season collections that can be bought (for those of us still buying DVDs/Blu-rays) without feeling like you’re wasting you money on filler, or feeling like it will be a constant, endless run of episodes that you will never fully collect is a very good thing from a consumer standpoint. Even if you don’t buy physical media, this also makes a series more palatable for digital downloads and initially getting into the show via streaming.

keep in mind you’re only talking about one anime.

I wouldn’t say that it’s “single handedly” saving the industry, but it is helping to push forward what I see as a positive change in business strategy. But what exactly does it going into Season 4 have to do with anything? Saying that it is “nearing its end even faster” is like saying, “every day, I’m dying a little more.” It’s kind of silly. Again, things end. That’s what they do. No one knows if the anime adaptation of My Hero will end with the 4th or 5th season, but it could just as likely last for 10 seasons. It all hinges on how successful it continues to be, both in anime and manga form.

S4 means it’s nearing it’s end of an already extremely new series. come on, a business student such as yourself should realise this. they will still have to suffer and wait for new content to come out. seeing S4 is coming out, the content of the story is nearly swallowed. eventually, they will reach the same problem of long-term shounen has and catch up entirely. they’ll either be forced to wait a year or so for new content or just fall back on fillers.

insult is an expression or statement which is disrespectful or scornful. Insults may be intentional or accidental. An insult may be factual, but at the same time pejorative, such as the word "inbred".

Yeah, no. You can’t just make up new definitions. Sorry to play grammar nazi or word police or whatever, but it doesn’t matter how constructive a statement may be or what the intent is; it can still definitely be an insult. But no, you did not hurt me in any way.

i meant how insults are used in arguments debates….like when you have no evidence left and you just throw ad hominems everywhere? have you not been in an argument before? this happens all the time, i thought you knew what i meant. anyone who debates constantly would understand, i wasn’t making a new definition.

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pluvia33 | Oct 26, 2018 2:23 PM

Hmmm, I think we might be getting somewhere with this discussion? Sort of? I think I’ll start doing the “quote and respond” thing now, too, because this is getting to be a rather large amount to unpack and keep straight....

i already told you i never found you rude in the first place.

i can end this argument right here, right now, by saying that is the subject at hand, and my post wasn't talking about how unpopular or popular anime is, rather that is has crap stories that don't compare to webtoon and even the small amount of web-manhua i read.

literally what are you talking about. they adapted a shounen manga. that's it. what's so revolutionary about that?

sooner or later (more sooner than later), BNHA (a will run out of content, (b be put on haitus because it's caught up to the story or (c end for whatever reason. because c is unlikely (but unsurprising if it happened), we are now forced with two options. either end the series and wait for the manga to come out with more content, or to keep up viewship no matter what, go through 70 dozen filler episodes. okay, say that a or b doesn't happen. c definitely will happen, regardless of how long it will take.

BNHA will end, and then what will anime have in the end? yet another peg of their foundation is gone. ironically, the one franchise that strenghened them will cripple their crash all the worse. and let's not even get into what will happen to one piece, as it is already nearing its end. i'd love to see what happens to the industry when even luffy cannot help anymore. can't wait for that day, it'll be interesting.

i was never talking about anime being a sucess or not, only the quality of their content. and BNHA is no exception in my example or even yours. bleach was once a well told epic that sucked in viewers over the years and ended in a disgrace. what's stopping BNHA from doing that exactly, ESPECIALLY considering that it's nowehere near the quality fans make it up to be? it makes more sense to assume that it won't be the god that saves anime and will instead die and turn to dust in the end. if even the legendary and cultural phenomenon such as bleach couldn't even escape it, what's your solid reasons for BNHA for not falling for it? because it's popular?

I don’t want to put down your original post since it is your personal ramblings, but in light of this information I fail to see the point in your logic. As I said already, the subjective level of quality has very little relevance in if anime can survive as an industry or not. The end success of the content is what matters. It’s an INDUSTRY and all business is measured in successes, not some abstract measure of “quality” that can be vastly different from person to person. As far as what’s stopping Hero from sharing the same fate as Bleach is what I just said: it’s release strategy. Yes, even in the manga (from what I’ve heard) Bleach kind of went off the rails and got blotted with its storylines. However, that problem was exacerbated in the anime by the filler arcs that went even further away from the core storylines. My Hero doesn’t have that issue because the release schedule doesn’t require the same amount of filler and padding. And yes, the fact that My Hero is popular is also a big factor and just because you don’t see the quality of the series does not mean that it’s not there. Again, I have to scratch my head to understand why the hell One Piece and Death Note get as much praise as they do. In the end, I except it because I understand that they just aren’t to my taste and I move on.

I wouldn’t exactly call My Hero “industry changing” in and of itself, but the main point of me bringing it up, again, is what I talked about above. It’s not so much the quality of it, but the structure of its release. I’m sorry, but I’m a business person. That’s what I went to college for, I work in finance, and I’m part of an independent business on the side. When a discussion comes up about an industry suffering, my mind automatically thinks in terms of business. And what My Hero is doing makes good business sense. Not only does the breaking into seasons help fix the typical shounen filler issue, it also makes the series more marketable overseas. Season collections that can be bought (for those of us still buying DVDs/Blu-rays) without feeling like you’re wasting you money on filler, or feeling like it will be a constant, endless run of episodes that you will never fully collect is a very good thing from a consumer standpoint. Even if you don’t buy physical media, this also makes a series more palatable for digital downloads and initially getting into the show via streaming. I wouldn’t say that it’s “single handedly” saving the industry, but it is helping to push forward what I see as a positive change in business strategy. But what exactly does it going into Season 4 have to do with anything? Saying that it is “nearing its end even faster” is like saying, “every day, I’m dying a little more.” It’s kind of silly. Again, things end. That’s what they do. No one knows if the anime adaptation of My Hero will end with the 4th or 5th season, but it could just as likely last for 10 seasons. It all hinges on how successful it continues to be, both in anime and manga form.

also i may have "insulted" you, but it wasn't intentional. insults are just needless spats because one is so angry they can't make up any legitmate points. this entire conversation at hand is what i think of your arguments, not you as a person. if i hurt you i must also apologize.

An insult is an expression or statement which is disrespectful or scornful. Insults may be intentional or accidental. An insult may be factual, but at the same time pejorative, such as the word "inbred".

Yeah, no. You can’t just make up new definitions. Sorry to play grammar nazi or word police or whatever, but it doesn’t matter how constructive a statement may be or what the intent is; it can still definitely be an insult. But no, you did not hurt me in any way. At worst, some of your statements just confused me a bit, but that’s not anyone’s fault really. And I guess this is as good of a time as any to address that text-based communication can be a difficult thing. Whether you know the person on the other end or not, it can be hard to understand the context of and feelings behind some of what is said. That is what brought on the overly apologetic nature of my last comment. I wasn’t sure if I might have offended you in some way and thought that some of my comments might have come off as more aggressive than I would have liked. Again, if I would have seen/remembered your earlier comment about rudeness and seen how active you are in the MAL Forums before I wrote my last comment, I likely wouldn’t have bothered with the constant apologies. =P

all this is telling you is that it's "thriving like crazy"? are you serious? with all these anime fanchises supposedly ended, you don't think their sudden reboot is because the industry is dying and so they're pulling back anime that was sucessful in the past to keep it alive?

You appear to have missed or disregarded a very important part of my statement. I said, “The Japanese anime movie industry is also thriving like crazy.” This statement has absolutely nothing to do with the other series that I mentioned as those were all TV series. If you include the very important “movie” part of my statement, then yes, I am absolutely series, though again, this is something completely unrelated to the TV shows mentioned. However, this is still very important to the Japanese anime industry overall. With the success of things like the Suzumiya Haruhi and Fate/stay night movies in 2010, it was realized that an anime film doesn’t have to be a Ghibli production or part of a major kid’s franchise to be successful at the box office. Shortly before that, Summer Wars also helped lay the groundwork for this realization. For the last ten years, anime films have truly been thriving. 2016 in particular was an amazing year for anime movies, both in “quality” and box office numbers, with A Silent Voice, In This Corner of the World, and of course the juggernaut that was Your Name. And franchise anime films outside of the typical kid’s stuff has also been doing well with a recent example being the Natsume’s Book of Friends anime movie topping the charts on its opening weekend. Speaking of which, there’s another constant evergreen title in anime right now.

you don't think so? that's okay. because the article i linked suspiciously says the same thing:

The terrible thing about this view, Fukuhara argues, is that Japan has coasted on the ghosts of past successes. Fukuhara believes that very little of value has been created over the last 30 years and nothing as impactful as Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, and Studio Ghibli’s early output.

hm. even for me not having a single hand in anime, i wonder how this producer and i think alike.

Hahahaha!!! Fun fact: One Piece was first created in 1997. Funny that the guy you’re using to support your line of thinking doesn’t seem to have a high opinion of the series that Japan has supposedly “done nothing but proclaim their love” for over the years, to the point of having “literal graves and statues” for the characters. XD But all snideness aside, this guy’s fearfulness is pretty amusing; that’s Japanese isolationism and xenophobia for you! (#NotAllJapanese - Don’t kill me, weebs!) He also seems to be a bit ignorant of his own industry. The three movies that I mentioned earlier easily qualify as “modern classics” on the same level as most Ghibli productions. Personally, I consider In This Corner of the World to blow Grave of the Fireflies out of the water in every way. God, I borderline-hated Grave of the Fireflies....

Time of me to pointlessly bitch about a pet peeve of mine: I can’t stand the term “MC”!! Seriously, how hard is it to type out “main character” or just say “lead” instead? It’s not that hard. This isn’t directed towards you exactly; I just can’t stand seeing so many people using such an absolutely stupid, lazy term all the time. It fills me with an irrational rage that very few other things can.

Back on topic, saying Japan is “more focused on” high school shounen stuff is rather incorrect. Out of the 1,275 TV anime in the MAL database which came out over the last 5 years, only 180 are categorized as Shounen. Even fewer than that have any kind of “high school” focus (meaning shows that either take place in high school or have high school-like characters as the argument can be made that shows like Fairy Tail fit your description). For instance, Akame ga Kill, Hajime no Ippo, Kekkai Sensen, Mahoutsukai no Yome, and Shingeki no Kyojin are included in that count. And on that subject, I’ve seen a ridiculous amount of Korean and Chinese content that is high school focused/shounen style, just as I’ve seen plenty of Japanese manga and anime that is the furthest from that description as possible. And not that this is a good or bad thing one way or the other. It’s all a matter of perspective, tastes, and what you’re exposed to.

one piece and SAO are two different franchises with two different vibes.

Just because I mentioned the two series in the same sentence doesn’t mean I was comparing them. The only thing that they have in common is that they both have a decent amount of longevity and I frankly don’t give a shit about either franchise. Sorry if it’s insulting, but fuck both series. I dislike them about equally.

do you really want to make this argument considering people are saying the exact thing about cartoons? how worthless and meaningless it is? and how CN is continuously dying? and, just as anime did, it raped all the power of their most popular show like adventure time and gumball, and now that they are gone (gumball's confirmed final season is nearing), CN is dying all the faster?
do you really want to make this argument?

Hahaha! What? US animation is doing pretty great. Depending on your tastes, I may or may not get flack for this, but I don’t really give a shit. I love Rick and Morty. It’s probably my favorite piece of non-Japanese entertainment and only falls just below my top two piece of favorite Japanese stuff. The series is a huge success and so are many other adult focused cartoons. South Park is still going strong. BoJack Horseman is insanely popular as is Archer, Bob’s Burgers, and Big Mouth. Cartoon Network isn’t the end-all-be-all of animation in the US. But even in the realm of Cartoon Network, they seem to be doing fine from where I’m standing. Aside from the aforementioned Rick and Morty, Robot Chicken is still going strong and The Venture Bros. still exists. Steven Universe is another great show with a big following and say what you will about them, but Teen Titans Go and the new version of the Powerpuff Girls have been very successful. But again, outside of Cartoon Network, Gravity Falls was amazing while it lasted, the animated Star Wars stuff has been great from what I’ve heard, the animated DC stuff gets constant praise, and then of course there is our massive animated film industry from Disney, Pixar, and Dreamworks. I think US cartoons are doing just fine.

no, but as cartoon did, they barely scratched the potential of their smaller stories and adapted series that were just smaller, crappy cookie cutter versions of their biggest works. they had no life to them and therefore died soon after they ended. you can't jusify literally dozens of anime dying off and being forgotten because nothing lasts forever. there is a problem here. there always was, and now that "the big three" are almost over and done, the mistakes of the industry are becoming more clear than ever.

Ummm, what’s to “justify” here?? Every anime production has a purpose and more often than not that purpose is rooted in one thing: Business. Sorry to bring this up again, but if you’re going to talk about an industry dying, it kind of needs to be talked about in terms of business. The truth is that many anime serve little point beyond acting as an advertisement for its source material and/or merchandise. It’s the same thing as with kid’s cartoons in the US as they are usually beholden to toy companies to get funding. If an anime is one of the many that end up “dying off” after its first season, it is because it was either a commercial failure or it already fully served its purpose. It may have already given the source material all of the sales boost that they hoped for or they already fully (or close enough to fully) adapted that source material.

Now, I would agree that the industry has issues, but I don’t see it as being as dire of an issue as you. And yes, the problems always have been there, but the industry is about 50 years old and still going and adapting to the situations that come its way. And as far as the “smaller, crappy cookie cutter versions of their biggest works” comment, that just comes off as an oversimplified and cynical way of saying “draws inspiration from the past” which is something that pretty much every creative individual does. Nothing is wholly original. You can apply the exact same comment to most Korean and Chinese works as well.

and i saw that marvel jab there, if it was. as a MCU fan i should have the right to embowel you right here and now, but i have a controlled temper, so i'll refrain from doing so.
for now.

Bwahahaha!! Wow, way to get defensive right away and nearly put words in my mouth. XD
No, that was not in any way a Marvel jab. I also love the MCU. It was largely a jab at all of the things trying to copy the MCU formula, to mostly shitty results. DC trying to do their own version of the MCU has been a disaster; they should have just stuck with individual stories like the Dark Knight Trilogy instead of trying to force everything together. Trying to make The Mummy (2017) the first in a cinematic universe was stupid, and do we really need a giant monster cinematic universe for Godzilla and King Kong? Disney even got a bit greedy with the Star Wars franchise as they overreached a bit with their prequel/side-story plans. Not that this is exactly a new thing. The concept of cash-in franchise entries has been a thing for decades with things like Jaws, Friday the 13th, etc.

so you think it's okay for all this anime to be inhaled, digested and crapped out within the span of 1 or 2 years and have nothing more to its name other than being on an anime list?

Yes.

and if a person made money from a franchise, why wouldn't they continue?

They should continue.

out of all the anime i listed in my previous post, only noragami survived, and is getting a third season. and that's okay to you?

What exactly do you mean by “survived”?? Parasyte and Sakamoto were pretty much full adaptations of completed manga series and I still hear all of the series that you mentioned talked about to this day. Just because you might not hear them talked about in the circles where you discuss anime doesn’t mean that no one else is talking about them. The anime hive mind tends to be laser-focused on the newest of the new as we do get such a large constant stream of content. And again, yes, I am perfectly okay with the “some are remembered, others fade away” nature of entertainment.

wake up my friend. it's not just anime. it's not just japan. the movie industry, if it wasn't for the MCU, would have been in a far worse state than it is now. TV shows are just like the pattern i said of anime, not lasting more than 2 seasons, cancelled after 1, heck even netflix is losing member subscriptions. it's the end of an era. another is rising. we don't quite know what it is, but it's there.

Yep, this is a true statement. I would argue that, to an extent, entertainment has always been rather disposable. I mean, who can forget the 1980 Academy Awards Best Picture winner Ordinary People? Out of Africa, the 1985 winner? 2007 Best Picture nominee Michael Clayton? But yes, with the information age, we are definitely facing a much higher saturation of entertainment content than ever before. It very much is an end of an era. I lived through the 1990s and early 2000s when pretty much everyone watched the same stuff because that was all there really was. For the most part, everyone had the same 6 or so TV channels for entertainment. Even with cable TV that didn’t expand things all that much, especially from a kid’s perspective as we mostly just had Nickelodeon, Disney Channel, and Cartoon Network. We had the same few Saturday morning cartoon options, same after school stuff, same prime time dramas, same TGIF family programing, etc.

But now with digital distribution and the full opening up of content from other countries, there is an insane amount of content available to us. All of the old networks are still there, but they’re pushing out more content so they can compete with streaming platforms. The streaming platforms then get a lot of the same content from networks, but now it is all available easily to everyone with those platforms all the time whenever you want it. Plus, the streaming platforms push out their own original content at a fast rate. Of course a lot of stuff is going to just come and go. Some things stick around and are remembered while others get the axe. However, where did you hear that Netflix is supposedly losing subscriptions? All I could find is information about their stocks going down because their subscription growth isn’t as good as they hoped and some BS about people threatening to get rid of their subscriptions because they were bitter about the Obamas getting a show or some shit.

But anyway, back to the point, with digital distribution and global accessibility, we are definitely in an era of disposable entertainment. That’s not something that I need to “wake up” to; I’m well aware of the state of things. The difference between me and you is that I already know that it’s here and have accepted it. This is just the way things are. We can’t go back. All you can do is enjoy the entertainment that fits your tastes and hope that it is successful on a level that will produce enough content to satisfy you. Some things will be remembered by the masses while others will be forgotten. It’s kind of sad, but that’s the way things are.

aeni and donhua definitely have the chance to fall on the same near-fatal fate as anime, but with a LOT their stories being of high quality - not just their version of "the big three" - there is a higher chance they can survive longer with smaller aeni/donhua stories because people will be interested in their compelling storywriting, not because the premise of the story is tendy/popular.

Highly doubtful. Korean and Chinese animation will be just as much of a disposable form of entertainment as everything else in the world. I’m sure a few properties will have the opportunity to be remembered as something great, but no more of a chance than anything Japan or America can produce. And I find it amusing that you speak of their stories as something greater, like some form of high art, when LINE Webtoon is riding the wave of trendy and popular harder than anime and manga ever did. It’s cool if you like that stuff more, though. Good for you.

i understand this paragraph more than any of your others. what little i have to say is that you shouldn't have come here with an argument, but discussion. with disussions, there is a leeway of proof and sources and even though it is needed here and there, it's more on folks just throwing around their ideas and theories - which is what i was doing in my orignal post. i'm more than happy to discuss the matters of the anime+manga industry state, rather than argue about it. that will be when my theories are either proven wrong or solidified in the next 3 years.

Okay, I’m glad that we’ve come to an understanding. I NEVER came here for an “argument” as you see it. I did use the term “counterargument” in my first comment, but I only meant it as providing my point of view, an opposing opinion. It was never my intent to have a fully researched debate. I didn’t realize that you had such a specific, narrow view of what an “argument” is.

no, i received it alright, i was just being a jerk about it and kidding around. thus why i inserted the word "salty" for you to catch on that i was overreacting a bit as well. as i said before, if you want to discuss any matter of the subjects we talked about at hand, i'd much rather do that than try to knock down your argument and build up my own.

Sorry, the sentence in which you previously used the term “salty” just looked very odd and I couldn’t quite get what you were saying or trying to imply. And again, that just brings back the issue of casual text-based communication being complicated.

And I think that’s it for me! Thank you so much for your response! Writing this really helped me keep my mind busy and made a very slow Friday at work go by quick. I’m glad that my work computer remembered this blog entry and had it pop up when I typed “myanimelist” into the web browser. XD

Maybe I’ll check back next week if work continues to be slow. Have a great weekend! ^_^

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	LeonhartAugust \| Oct 25, 2018 2:57 PM Quite a lot seasonal anime are pretty much forgotten by the time the next season comes around or in 1 year, seeing what I observed. It would be nice if there was less of that isekai bs (sad that isekai anime are a total joke these days, given its cool concept. I don't bother watching stuff ulysses and that slime anime). Blog - Comment

TomDay | Oct 25, 2018 1:20 PM

33, i'm skipping your apology because (1 i do not need to respond do it and (2 i already told you i never found you rude in the first place. but if you felt an apology was necessary, then i'm not taking that from you. with that being said, i'm starting here:

However, I do continue to stand by my statement that everything I've said still applies to your statement. What you describe, even if it is in the early stages, IS the act of something killing anime, even if the process takes the next three years to do so.

you can stick to your proposal, you're still wrong. even for my chopped up and scattered thoughts in my first post, i lightly touched on the current state of anime, and i said that right now, the industry is killing itself, and has been for quite a while, even in its naruto and bleach days. seeing as korean animation, as huge of an industry it is, still isn't breaking any serious boundaries without being under the guise of anime-animation (and US animation), there is no way it can kill anime at this current state. same for donghua.

And yes, I am absolutely series in my logic and still believe it to be sound. Even your example works. You do naturally start healing as soon as you sustain an injury. That is absolutely how biology works. I am 100% dead serious with my logic, because this is how logic works.

your body can attempt to heal, but it's not actually going to heal unless the proper necessities are at hand (the cast). your knee can try to heal from a wound scratch, but if you don't clean it the bacteria will keep attacking it and it won't do crap. that's all i'm going to say on this. continue on if you'd like, i'm not going to drag on this subject.

The thing about mentioning My Hero Academia is that the quality wasn't at all the point and for the most part it still isn't.

I was simply posing it as a good example of how anime producers in Japan have been adapting to the changing time, something that you seem to be saying they need to do if they want to survive.

literally what are you talking about. they adapted a shounen manga. that's it. what's so revolutionary about that?

You can dislike and think the series is overrated as much as you want, but the fact is that it is doing well enough to get a fourth season.

how much i hate this franchise is irrelevant, i hate the series being brought up over and over because it isn't a good example.
and it's actually pretty great you bring up that BNHA is hitting S4, because you introduced the subject better than i ever could.
sooner or later (more sooner than later), BNHA (a will run out of content, (b be put on haitus because it's caught up to the story or (c end for whatever reason. because c is unlikely (but unsurprising if it happened), we are now forced with two options. either end the series and wait for the manga to come out with more content, or to keep up viewship no matter what, go through 70 dozen filler episodes. okay, say that a or b doesn't happen. c definitely will happen, regardless of how long it will take. BNHA will end, and then what will anime have in the end? yet another peg of their foundation is gone. ironically, the one franchise that strenghened them will cripple their crash all the worse. and let's not even get into what will happen to one piece, as it is already nearing its end. i'd love to see what happens to the industry when even luffy cannot help anymore. can't wait for that day, it'll be interesting.

This isn't a case of a shounen series petering along in a constant stream until it crashes and burns hard enough with fans that it ends up getting cancelled after years of being on the air (like Bleach). The series is proving itself with each batch of episodes and earning its continuation. That is proof in and of itself that it is a success.

Again, I do apologize. I see now that I did come off rather confrontational in my initial comment. That really was rude of me. However, I would appreciate it if you would actually think about the points that I made instead of getting so hard on the defensive and deciding to insult me far more than I ever did you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my line of thinking or reading comprehension. I've re-read your blog and my points still do fit. Japan really is taking steps to preserve their craft.

needless (but humbly taken) apology aside, you still haven't said what's changing about the anime industry. simply bringing up BNHA isn't going to to cut it. what exactly is so industry changing about this show? and don't bring up the premise, i understand the premise. i watched the entire first season. so what is so amazing about this series that will (apparently) single handedly remold the anime industry? take in mind that it's already going on S4 as you said yourself, nearing its end even faster.

also i may have "insulted" you, but it wasn't intentional. insults are just needless spats because one is so angry they can't make up any legitmate points. this entire conversation at hand is what i think of your arguments, not you as a person. if i hurt you i must also apologize.

I would have to disagree with your dismissal of the popular, returning shows that I mentioned, though. These are not the only big evergreen anime out there and there is plenty of room for a lot of series to grow and thrive in the global market that anime is now a part of. The ones that I mentioned are just the ones which had new anime debuting this current season. And speaking of Tokyo Ghoul, that is still very much a thing and a series that also had a new anime debut this season. Going a season before, there was Shingeki no Kyojin Season 3 and Overlord III. Before that, Boku no Hero Academia 3rd Season, Steins;Gate 0, Tokyo Ghoul:re, Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online, and Shokugeki no Souma: San no Sara - Toutsuki Ressha-hen. Before that, Overlord II and Nanatsu no Taizai: Imashime no Fukkatsu. And so on and so forth. The Japanese anime movie industry is also thriving like crazy.

-tokyo ghoul will flop and you don't even need to take my word for it. watch the series come out and no-one will care. you may remember or not, but S2 was not recieved with any sort of praise. therefore it makes sense to utterly doubt the third season, which BTW, is years too late after its previous season anyway.
-we don't need to bring up BHNA as we both know there is undeniable proof it's popular. and again, it's not the subject at hand.
-the SnK anime is a franchise that needs context. S1 aired in 2013. only 2 other seasons have come out and it won't even finish until 2019 because of the hiatus. that's over 5 whole years after the animation with only two seasons to its name. and within those years, the popularity of SnK, which was so popular it had gotten frequent cameos in US cartoons, was shot down. i have fans theirselves admitting it's dying.
-the fact you brought up steins gate only proves my point further that the industry is dying. right along with stiens gate, which aired in 2011, and it only gets a sequel 7 years later, almost immmediately after naruto ended, the industry scrambled to keep up its pegs by the trash boruto series, osomatsu san is a sequel to the anime that was in the 20th century (it only lasted 2 seasons btw), yu yu hakusho has suddenly been announced even for the ending being perfectly fine, and of course there's the reboot of the DB series. all this is telling you is that it's "thriving like crazy"? are you serious? with all these anime fanchises supposedly ended, you don't think their sudden reboot is because the industry is dying and so they're pulling back anime that was sucessful in the past to keep it alive?

you don't think so? that's okay. because the article i linked suspiciously says the same thing:

The terrible thing about this view, Fukuhara argues, is that Japan has coasted on the ghosts of past successes. Fukuhara believes that very little of value has been created over the last 30 years and nothing as impactful as Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, and Studio Ghibli’s early output.

hm. even for me not having a single hand in anime, i wonder how this producer and i think alike.

And I'm not exactly sure what you think is the best strategy for anime improvement here. On the one hand, you hold up One Piece as the benchmark for success and compare the new shows that I mentioned to the staying power of SAO, but then you also say that relying powerful franchises is a "mistake that put them in this problem in the first place."

my strategy is simple - make excellent stories. korean can do it. china can. japan on the other hand is more focused on making the same old high school shounen with the same pathetic and meaningless MCs every time.

one piece and SAO are two different franchises with two different vibes. SAO relies on the trend and popularity of the internet and games. one piece took japan (and the world) over because of its stories and characters. SAO only has 1 generation of viewers, one piece has at least 2. SAO never had a strong story in the beginning, while one piece promised and continues to give an ongoing story revolving around a likable MC and sub-cast. SAO does not and will not have the same meaning of one piece, not even in anyone's dreams. japan loves one piece. they love luffy. and country has done nothing but proclaim their love for this franchise over the years, and you can bet your heart beating right now the country will mourn for this story like never before when it ends. to even hint SAO is within the realm of such things as the accomplishments one piece did is nothing short of an insult.

and again, if you read my first post correctly, you would know that i said the anime industry is lucky to have one piece because they are raping its power until the very end, just as they destroyed bleach and naruto. i never didn't bash the industry for using one piece, no matter how much cultural power the anime and manga have over the japanese people. i simply said that it's different from all the other franchises because it is genuinely loved and literally woshipped by not only fans but the general public as well.

Really, holding One Piece as any kind of benchmark of success for anime in general is rather silly. That's like saying that no other TV cartoon in America has ever had the same level of cultural impact as the Simpsons had and therefore all other US cartoons on TV aren't very successful.

There is nothing wrong with a number of smaller series being very successful and then being over. Nothing lasts forever and most things shouldn't. Not every TV series has to last for 10+ years. Not every movie has to spawn a franchise of sequels.

Yes, there is absolutely a pattern. I am just not at all convinced that it's a bad one. It is a rather natural pattern for entertainment if you ask me. Things come, they make money, then they go. A select few hang around in the minds of those who enjoyed then a great deal while the rest is forgotten by the masses. That's how entertainment has worked for decades and the same will happen with Korean and Chinese animation when their industries are more developed.

so you think it's okay for all this anime to be inhaled, digested and crapped out within the span of 1 or 2 years and have nothing more to its name other than being on an anime list? and if a person made money from a franchise, why wouldn't they continue? out of all the anime i listed in my previous post, only noragami survived, and is getting a third season. and that's okay to you? wake up my friend. it's not just anime. it's not just japan. the movie industry, if it wasn't for the MCU, would have been in a far worse state than it is now. TV shows are just like the pattern i said of anime, not lasting more than 2 seasons, cancelled after 1, heck even netflix is losing member subscriptions. it's the end of an era. another is rising. we don't quite know what it is, but it's there.

aeni and donhua definitely have the chance to fall on the same near-fatal fate as anime, but with a LOT their stories being of high quality - not just their version of "the big three" - there is a higher chance they can survive longer with smaller aeni/donhua stories because people will be interested in their compelling storywriting, not because the premise of the story is tendy/popular.

Yeah, I have 0 credibility, despite my 20+ years of consuming anime.... I'm sorry that I'm not providing citations and references and forgive me more not actually looking at the one piece of someone else's opinion that you have provided. I was only interested in having a dialog. I have no desire to write a research paper on this subject. Well, that's actually not totally true. I actually would be a little interested in providing research and references and "proof" and such, but I'm writing this while at work and the network that I am on is rather restrictive and I don't want to get deep into researching my points just to notice that 4pm has come and I have to cut things short and go home. Please forgive me for my continuing process of just talking about of my ass. Sorry, that was a bit snide there. I couldn't help myself.

In all sincerity, I thought that my line of dialog was built in a way that would be easily followed and understood, but I guess I was mistaken. I suppose I'll get back to actual work now. Thank you very much for helping me kill a few hours of boredom.

Blog - Comment

pluvia33 | Oct 24, 2018 12:58 PM

Okay, I do legitimately apologize for my rudeness. Honestly, the main reason that I responded again is because I'm rather bored at work. It's also why I commented in the first place yesterday. I tend to go to the Blog page as often as I can because I'm personally a big fan of using MAL's blog function. It really bothers me that they haven't improved it in any significant way over the last 9 years that I've been using this website. Now, please try to not take my response personally....

I'm sorry for coming into your blog and bashing your writing style. That was a rather rude and defensive move on my part after you criticized my writing and reading comprehension. However, I do continue to stand by my statement that everything I've said still applies to your statement. What you describe, even if it is in the early stages, IS the act of something killing anime, even if the process takes the next three years to do so.

And yes, I am absolutely series in my logic and still believe it to be sound. Even your example works. You do naturally start healing as soon as you sustain an injury. That is absolutely how biology works. I am 100% dead serious with my logic, because this is how logic works.

The thing about mentioning My Hero Academia is that the quality wasn't at all the point and for the most part it still isn't. I was simply posing it as a good example of how anime producers in Japan have been adapting to the changing time, something that you seem to be saying they need to do if they want to survive. You can dislike and think the series is overrated as much as you want, but the fact is that it is doing well enough to get a fourth season. This isn't a case of a shounen series petering along in a constant stream until it crashes and burns hard enough with fans that it ends up getting cancelled after years of being on the air (like Bleach). The series is proving itself with each batch of episodes and earning its continuation. That is proof in and of itself that it is a success.

Again, I do apologize. I see now that I did come off rather confrontational in my initial comment. That really was rude of me. However, I would appreciate it if you would actually think about the points that I made instead of getting so hard on the defensive and deciding to insult me far more than I ever did you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my line of thinking or reading comprehension. I've re-read your blog and my points still do fit. Japan really is taking steps to preserve their craft.

And no, I wasn't trying to imply that simply the quantity of my writing equates to having proof. I was just pointing it out because I have a tendency to go on and on and it was a little silly for me two write more than the individual who I was responding to. It actually is rather rude of me in a way and I'd like to thank you for actually taking the time to read and respond to it.

Hmmm, I'm sorry to have misunderstood your points again. I thought that one of the main issues here in comparing Korean/Chinese content with Japanese content was that webtoon has made huge advancements on their side while Japan didn't have much in the way of modern digitally distributed comics to keep up. My bad.

I would have to disagree with your dismissal of the popular, returning shows that I mentioned, though. These are not the only big evergreen anime out there and there is plenty of room for a lot of series to grow and thrive in the global market that anime is now a part of. The ones that I mentioned are just the ones which had new anime debuting this current season. And speaking of Tokyo Ghoul, that is still very much a thing and a series that also had a new anime debut this season. Going a season before, there was Shingeki no Kyojin Season 3 and Overlord III. Before that, Boku no Hero Academia 3rd Season, Steins;Gate 0, Tokyo Ghoul:re, Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online, and Shokugeki no Souma: San no Sara - Toutsuki Ressha-hen. Before that, Overlord II and Nanatsu no Taizai: Imashime no Fukkatsu. And so on and so forth. The Japanese anime movie industry is also thriving like crazy.

And I'm not exactly sure what you think is the best strategy for anime improvement here. On the one hand, you hold up One Piece as the benchmark for success and compare the new shows that I mentioned to the staying power of SAO, but then you also say that relying powerful franchises is a "mistake that put them in this problem in the first place."

Really, holding One Piece as any kind of benchmark of success for anime in general is rather silly. That's like saying that no other TV cartoon in America has ever had the same level of cultural impact as the Simpsons had and therefore all other US cartoons on TV aren't very successful.

There is nothing wrong with a number of smaller series being very successful and then being over. Nothing lasts forever and most things shouldn't. Not every TV series has to last for 10+ years. Not every movie has to spawn a franchise of sequels.

Yes, there is absolutely a pattern. I am just not at all convinced that it's a bad one. It is a rather natural pattern for entertainment if you ask me. Things come, they make money, then they go. A select few hang around in the minds of those who enjoyed then a great deal while the rest is forgotten by the masses. That's how entertainment has worked for decades and the same will happen with Korean and Chinese animation when their industries are more developed.

Yeah, I have 0 credibility, despite my 20+ years of consuming anime.... I'm sorry that I'm not providing citations and references and forgive me more not actually looking at the one piece of someone else's opinion that you have provided. I was only interested in having a dialog. I have no desire to write a research paper on this subject. Well, that's actually not totally true. I actually would be a little interested in providing research and references and "proof" and such, but I'm writing this while at work and the network that I am on is rather restrictive and I don't want to get deep into researching my points just to notice that 4pm has come and I have to cut things short and go home. Please forgive me for my continuing process of just talking about of my ass. Sorry, that was a bit snide there. I couldn't help myself.

In all sincerity, I thought that my line of dialog was built in a way that would be easily followed and understood, but I guess I was mistaken. I suppose I'll get back to actual work now. Thank you very much for helping me kill a few hours of boredom.

Blog - Comment

TomDay | Oct 24, 2018 11:44 AM

so you came back to my blog for no reason other to get a response since @s don't work. nice to know.

Okay, I hope this doesn't come off as too rude, but one of the main reasons that I misunderstood you is that your entire statement is a bit of a mess both structurally and grammatically. Reading "more carefully" wouldn't have helped much. I read as carefully as I could, but I'm not a mind reader or detective. Again, hopefully that isn't taken as being too rude, especially if English might not be your first language.

maybe it's because it's MY blog and i was dishing out MY thoughts on what the industry is and will be in the future. i KNOW a lot of my thoughts went nowhere and were random, because i was just getting out my jumbled thoughts i've had running in my head these past 2 days. but absolutely none of this is intended to be read by anyone especially you. it's fine if folks read my blog, which is why i allowed comments. but what you are completely out of line is for you to tell me to adjust my post for your own liking. and reading "come the next three years, if anime isn't careful, it will be taken over" in literally my first paragraph is so woefully grammatically incorrect you couldn't read that i was talking about the future?

if i was an asshole i would say that "english isn't my first language" is just a lazy cop out, but because i'm not, i lay this down and no longer wish to talk about this anymore since you can have your own troubles with another language.

also, i don't find you rude. i don't find anyone on this site rude, as a matter of fact.

However, I also feel like you're splitting hairs a bit.

i'm not splitting hairs. as i said before my entire post is about the future. if you cannot be willing to admit you were wrong and therefore your entire previous argument is worthless, there is no point continuing after this post.

Getting into a position from which these other forms of content CAN kill anime is more or less the same thing as killing anime, as they are still in the process of killing anime.

.....are you serious? if i break my foot right now and say "well, it'll be healed in 2 months from now" that "more or less" means it's being healed as i speak, even without a cast?
are you dead serious with this logic?

You speculating this as a real possibility does NOT make my "argument" moot because everything that I said is also form the perspective of anime running into trouble in the future. Maybe YOU should read more carefully??

it does. it really does. but since you used that ridiculous logic beforehand of course you wouldn't think so would you?

And seriously, WHERE did I say ANYTHING about My Hero Academia being a masterpiece??

it's not you, it's any weeb who talks about boku academia all the freaking time. it's not that good, it's not worth the hype, it's just 1% above average. the "masterpiece" bit is how many times it's brought up and how people keep praising tf out of it.

And as for your second comment: What?? Really, why is the burden of proof on me

dude i am three minutes off of not even finishing this. YOU started the argument. YOU are coming up with examples and arguments. i simply was writing out my points. i started ZERO arguments. if i wanted to start one, it wouldn't be in a bloody blog where anyone barely pays any attention to. the fact you even brought up "burden of proof" in the first place shocks me considering how empty your knowledge is of making an actual argument.

As it was, I had already written nearly the same amount that you did in your original statement.

"I wrote as long as you! That's proof enough!"

Anime based on web manga:

-Gaikotsu Shotenin Honda-san
-Uchuu Senkan Tiramisù II
-Jashin-chan Dropkick
-Ani ni Tsukeru Kusuri wa Nai! 2
-Aguu: Tensai Ningyou
-Wotaku ni Koi wa Muzukashii
-Mahou Shoujo Ore
-Uchuu Senkan Tiramisù
-Amai Choubatsu: Watashi wa Kanshu Senyou Pet
-Omae wa Mada Gunma wo Shiranai
-Miira no Kaikata
-Gin no Guardian 2nd Season
-25-sai no Joshikousei

useless. i was talking about the content of japan's stories, not where they came from. try again.

And if you're asking for more examples of anime that is generally successful, that's a bit of a broad concept. However, anime still has multiple successful titles every season. In this season alone, continuations of "evergreen" franchises like Sword Art Online, Jojo, Index/Railgun, and Fairy Tail have come out and new anime like Goblin Slayer, Tensei shitara Slime Datta Ken, and Seishun Buta Yarou wa Bunny Girl Senpai no Yume wo Minai are all getting a lot of buzz already.

all of these anime you listed have proven my original post. SAO, jojo, fairy tale, railgun. all of them are anime being raped to hell by the anime industry as their main money makers, not making room for other stories. they're making the same mistake that put them in this problem in the first place.

and we are both not so bovine brained to believe these recent anime will last even half as long as even SAO. just no. need i remind you about tokyo ghoul, people were screaming about that, the quality it had and how popular it was? it died. SnK has 66 million views on its first OP. completely dead and is only alive for hardcore fans. parasyte, agame ga kill, terraformers, noragami, sakamoto desu ga, mekaku city actors, awari no seraph. yes, i know about anime. in fact i was very active in the years of this era. yet every single one the anime i listed came out within the span of 1 year of so of each other, got crazy popularity and hype, and died soon after. no-one talks about them anymore, nothing new is being done to them, no-one cares. it's all happened before. don't tell me after the points i listed, you don't see a pattern. so please spare me the "___is popular" argument.

as for my bolded choice on your words, you again are arguing on a completely different league, even if your arguments were stable. "getting a lot of buzz lately" means you are still arguing about the current state of anime, which i never touched on. if i was, i would say it's crap and nothing on earth can save it right now. unlike you, who have 0 credibility (and even less since you have provided no proof), a certain anime producer agrees with me.
anyway, i'm leading off. i could say that again, yet another one of your arguments is 100% useless but i'm not even doing that.

Again, your seeming mindset of recognizing One Piece as the sole example of successful anime right now just shows your ignorance of the state of anime.

until any of the anime you listed gets literal graves and statues dedicated to the characters such as the ones in one piece, stop talking about this right now.

Also, before you start putting words in my mouth again, I have not stated that I personally believe any of the titles that I've named are masterpieces. I MIGHT love a few of them, but I am currently only stating that these are examples of web manga adapted and/or successful anime.

i already touched on this. not repeating myself.

And now between my two comments I have written more than you have for this blog post. Are you happy now? Probably not.

you came to a blog that was not directed at you, defended a subject that wasn't even at hand, and continued to do so with the same amount of proof you came in with - 0. you provided no links, no videos and no sources even now. anyone insulted with this argument would be salty enough if they knew what was good enough for them.

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pluvia33 | Oct 24, 2018 9:39 AM

BWAHAHAHA!!

First, just FYI, the blog system on MAL sucks and if you actually wanted to reach someone who comments on an entry of yours, the @ tag does absolutely nothing in blog comments and no one will be notified by other comments that are made in a blog entry that they've commented on by default. I just happen to be looking at the Blog page again and saw that there were other comments on this post. Anyway....

Okay, I hope this doesn't come off as too rude, but one of the main reasons that I misunderstood you is that your entire statement is a bit of a mess both structurally and grammatically. Reading "more carefully" wouldn't have helped much. I read as carefully as I could, but I'm not a mind reader or detective. Again, hopefully that isn't taken as being too rude, especially if English might not be your first language.

However, I also feel like you're splitting hairs a bit. I may have initially said that your claim was that other content is "killing anime", but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is actively killing anime RIGHT NOW. Getting into a position from which these other forms of content CAN kill anime is more or less the same thing as killing anime, as they are still in the process of killing anime. You speculating this as a real possibility does NOT make my "argument" moot because everything that I said is also form the perspective of anime running into trouble in the future. Maybe YOU should read more carefully??

And seriously, WHERE did I say ANYTHING about My Hero Academia being a masterpiece?? I mean, it is currently my #49 favorite series and I do love it, but I said NOTHING about it being a masterpiece in my first comment. I just said that it's a positive change that they have broken up the series into seasons instead of trying to show it in a constant stream of episodes like One Piece and other shounen shows. Again, where are YOUR careful reading skills??

And as for your second comment: What?? Really, why is the burden of proof on me when you also provided absolutely no kind of proof whatsoever in your initial post?? As it was, I had already written nearly the same amount that you did in your original statement. If I'd brought in more examples and citations then I would have written far more than you did. I was just making a few quick points off of the top of my head. And what are you asking for as far as more than two examples of anime anyway? More successful anime? More anime adapted from digital content? Well, here you go....

Anime based on web manga:

-Gaikotsu Shotenin Honda-san
-Uchuu Senkan Tiramisù II
-Jashin-chan Dropkick
-Ani ni Tsukeru Kusuri wa Nai! 2
-Aguu: Tensai Ningyou
-Wotaku ni Koi wa Muzukashii
-Mahou Shoujo Ore
-Uchuu Senkan Tiramisù
-Amai Choubatsu: Watashi wa Kanshu Senyou Pet
-Omae wa Mada Gunma wo Shiranai
-Miira no Kaikata
-Gin no Guardian 2nd Season
-25-sai no Joshikousei

And those are all just over the last four seasons of anime. So yes, anime is definitely NOT ignoring their digital manga. The web manga platform is being utilized in Japan and it is being supported by the anime industry. Another example is Mob Psycho 100 which has been a great success both as a web manga and anime, with a second season of the adaptation coming out next season.

And if you're asking for more examples of anime that is generally successful, that's a bit of a broad concept. However, anime still has multiple successful titles every season. In this season alone, continuations of "evergreen" franchises like Sword Art Online, Jojo, Index/Railgun, and Fairy Tail have come out and new anime like Goblin Slayer, Tensei shitara Slime Datta Ken, and Seishun Buta Yarou wa Bunny Girl Senpai no Yume wo Minai are all getting a lot of buzz already. Again, your seeming mindset of recognizing One Piece as the sole example of successful anime right now just shows your ignorance of the state of anime. Also, before you start putting words in my mouth again, I have not stated that I personally believe any of the titles that I've named are masterpieces. I MIGHT love a few of them, but I am currently only stating that these are examples of web manga adapted and/or successful anime.

And now between my two comments I have written more than you have for this blog post. Are you happy now? Probably not. Either way, have a great day! ^_^

Blog - Comment

TomDay | Oct 23, 2018 4:46 PM

also, i love how you claim to know your stuff in your "counterargument" when you provided absolutely nothing but your mouth as proof. what a great way to lay down an argument. and the fact you only brought up two examples in the shitload anime has pumped out for decades and decades speaks so much louder about the state it's in more than you ever could do to defend it.

Blog - Comment

	TomDay \| Oct 23, 2018 3:44 PM @pluvia33 i never said it was killing anime, i said it would. this whole post is about what happens in the future, so really that whole argument of yours is moot. read more carefully next time. and i swear i will spam report the next acc that mentions boku academia as some masterpiece FPS Blog - Comment

pluvia33 | Oct 23, 2018 2:49 PM

I am honestly very confused about what you are talking about here. You talk about how "ignorant weebs" like me needing to wake up or whatever, but wake up to what exactly?? HOW is Korean and Chinese content killing anime? I feel like you have a false causality cooking up here. You seem to be lightly brushing upon some truths, but then are so in love with Korean/Chinese content and ignorant of the full extent of the trouble that's facing Japanese content that you are drawing a connection where there isn't really one.

Korean and Chinese content isn't going to pose any major competition to Japanese content any time soon. Yes, "webtoon" has gotten rather big and popular, but most of the people consuming that content hasn't been consuming much manga to begin with, and what manga they were consuming was likely not from a legitimate source.

Japanese manga at large is indeed struggling, but that is mainly a result of an overall trend of print dying as a medium. Japan can be very stubborn when it comes to change. With something with as much history as manga, they are struggling to make the jump to digital and that has been hurting them. They are getting better with there being a lot of popular manga which originated online now, some of which have gone on to become great anime (such as Made in Abyss). But overall, it will take time and they will suffer during that adjustment period.

However, I do not really understand what you're getting at when it comes to anime. Holding up the big shounen titles as the only things keeping anime as a medium afloat simply shows how ignorant YOU are about anime. While One Piece is very popular in Japan, it is not representative of the health of the medium as a whole. Anime has big hits every season which do rather well both in Japan and abroad. Japan's partnership with Crunchyroll and other streaming platforms has also breathed new life into the industry.

Really, I don't understand what you mean by anime needing to "improve". With your only stated benchmark for success being big shounen shows, I don't know what you expect them to do. Make everything a mass produced, rushed work of "good" animation showing every week for years on end? That is far from what the industry needs and they are finding success in moving away from that model with shows like My Hero Academia. While anime is getting rather oversaturated with many more shows than can possibly be successful coming out every season, producers are making some smart choices to keep the industry alive.

Anyway, that's my counterargument. Have a wonderful day, sir.

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