Mushoku Tensei II: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu Part 2 Episode 4 Discussion

@Shinola and @Tylaen here is that fucking essay I promised.

First and foremost, let's address your primary argument, which is that Rudeus is an adult when, in fact, he isn't. Not physically. Not mentally. Spiritually, it's arguable, and again, Shikogami makes it clear that that is how Rudeus perceives himself. I couldn't even begin to describe to you how utterly gut-wrenching that reveal was, even post-Mass Teleportation Incident. Rudeus had spent much of the Demon Continent being more adult than he ever had been. He observed advice given to him by a higher being, made decisions that benefited his group, and even faced death knowing that was probably where his story would end. And after all that, how does he see himself? Still as the jobless, friendless shut-in sack of crap he was in his past life. No amount of external praise or goodness could alter the crappy image he had of himself.

Rudeus suffered trauma during his adolescence and in his past life. That being chained up incident? Believe it or not, that's a glimpse of what he experienced. It's uncomfortable because it's a microcosm of how utterly devastating it can be to be bullied so severely. Rudeus was a broken youth who regressed and shut himself away. He stopped trying, and despite the best efforts of his family, he rejected all aid because at his core, he believed himself unworthy. He didn't want to be saved. He saw the world at its cruelest and like any other victim of abuse, chalked it up to him deserving it. He then engaged in behaviors which helped him further validate that opinion he had of himself.

For further insight: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187546/

Particularly, Masch (2006) wroter that,



In other words, adverse experiences can confound the most surface-level understanding of how victims choose to interpret their trauma and how they behave going forward. Only within the last 10-ish years have we had a better understanding of how trauma can cause victims to escalate into more criminal behavior. This actually ties into how Rudeus behaves, but it's a small part of it.

Peter Pan Syndrome is described as,



Rudeus did not mature beyond his adolescent years. He's irresponsible, has difficulties in social and professional relationships as a result of both his irresponsible behavior and narcissistic properties. For the record, narcissists are considered to be persons with low self-esteem who present as highly competent and with above average confidence, but are also incredibly defensive. Rudeus, while I wouldn't say he is defensive, is rather arrogant and presents as far more competent than he actually is. At least, pre-Mass Teleportation Rudeus is.

The author is presenting the narrative as it is because it's presented from the perspective of a victim who regressed and withdrew from society. It killed him, first emotionally, then mentally, and finally, physically. The Rudeus we know before the Demon Continent is a person deeply damaged and given another chance to do better. He has all the support he could want. But, we see brief glimpses like with the bath incident where even though it was a misunderstanding, he still felt regret that he had betrayed someone so severely. Sylphie still wanting to be his friend must have made his inner self feel like it was reborn a second time.

People who are abused are often as likely to be perpetrators later in life. To quote,



(Lev-Wiesel R. Childhood sexual abuse: From conceptualization to treatment. J Trauma Treat. 2015;4. doi:10.4172/2167-1222.s4-016)


In short, Rudeus molesting anyone was himself trying to take back a power he was robbed of in his past life. It doesn't make what he does right, but it does enlighten one as to why he does what he does.

Rudeus, at his core, is a crappy person. You can't really empathize him without the greater context of his trauma, and the narrative gives it the briefest regard inasfar as it's necessary to comprehend what made him this way. The trauma is his main motivating factor for his more offensive behaviors because as far as he's concerned, it's the one thing he can control. Heck, our introduction to him is him jerking off inter-spliced with his parent's funeral. That should show you how depraved he has become that he's basically jerking off on his parent's graves. But, it's also the one part of himself he can control.

Assaulting Sylphie was a re-awakening of that trauma, but only in that he had now evoked the same harm that was done unto him upon someone he cared about. He probably wanted to die in that moment because it was a reminder of what had been done to him. Sylphie had no context, but forgave him regardless because their friendship was more important than a misunderstanding. Rudeus could go on living, but likely mistaking (like a child would) that his misdemeanors would be more readily forgiven in this world.

Through Eris, he learned there were indeed boundaries and crossing them had consequences. He learned respect for those boundaries, even if he might at times regress.It should be noted that from the onset, Eris was difficult to educate. She resented someone younger than her being in a position of power over her. Rudeus, in turn, resented that she was not receptive to his lessons and feeling powerless, likely desired to use the one thing he felt gave him power as a means of "taming" her. It clearly backfired multiple times.

Sex and sexual deviancy are a core factor of Rudeus as a character, but is not regarded favorably by the narrative. It's clear through his form when he meets with Shikogami that he regards himself as some disgusting, unwashed, abhorrent mass of wasted flesh that should be discarded immediately. He hates the form, but is inflicts it upon himself because at his core, he hates who he is despite whatever positive qualities he has acquired. The narrative considers Rudeus to be a terrible person given a second chance, and that's the kindest way of defining who he is. You have to imagine as he's written, how such a person might regard themselves, that they cling to that old, abhorrent self so desperately, yet desire to reject it just as much.

Which is why I have no respect for people who come into the MT fandom with their most basic, drooling infant understanding of media in general and proceed to make absolute asshats of themselves. You're not making a point by parroting the same ignorant idiocy of some dullard with zero subscribers on youtube. You're proving that critical thinking and effort into basic research is being replaced by mass stupidity because the dumbest opinion with the least insight can be parroted by a dozen fools who did even less research and applied even less thought to what they're consuming. I defend this show not because Rudeus is a good character, but because it took me multiple fucking google searches to do a basic character study of the main protagonist.

Hell, look at my forum signature. Not the one about Thorkell. Everyone knows tall people regard that as a highly-protected secret not meant for the masses. Imagine if short people learned how to do a seven-foot-high flying dropkick. Dwarfism would become a desirable trait.

I'm speaking about the Nanami Kenta quote. Being an adult isn't how you handle big situations. It's about control. Specifically, there are two types of control: internal, and external. Internal control is ourselves, how we react to things, how we interact with others, etc. It's personal, things we can influence. An example is doing a bit of extra studying before bed. You have the option to push yourself a bit further ahead than others, but there isn't a guarantee that your efforts will merit long-term benefits. But, it's something we can control.

External control are things we cannot influence. It's something like hairs falling out, or your favorite stuffed bread going out of rotation. Those are things we wish we could influence, but which we never can. We can choose to let it frustrate us to the point of action, or recognize that what once was is simple no longer. We can feel saddened briefly, but it is essential to acknowledge that those things matter little in the grand scheme of things.

Rudeus desperately desires to regain that control he lost and will regress in situations where he feels he has none. He's not doing it out of malice (not intentionally) or a general disregard for others. He's doing it as a way to cope with his trauma because it's the one thing he knows. Nobody in the fandom has ever said Rudy is a good person. We've all said he's a damaged person, even a crappy person, who does crappy things. But, the fandom loves the story because it's also a hopeful story of someone who was beaten and broken by a cruel world and saw his second chance as an opportunity to be more. It's a story about someone who was ruined finding a way to live for tomorrow.

And if that doesn't jive with you, well, kick rocks. This story is top-tier and your waifu is trash.

-Sylphie crew

@SentiOnikawa, gods you're sore about this topic.

Ok, to debunk your "non-basic" understanding of MT, explain how would you react, if he was not put into young boy's body, as that seems the main point of anyone defending deviant behaviour?

He's like 30 or 40+, he's even comparing that he's older than his dad in one of the series.

@Shinola



Because the guy who just did a well-researched essay on Rudeus as a character and how his traits align to those of victims who suffered abuse has left a lot of wiggle room for your wholly uneducated perspective to debunk anything, right? You're the equivalent of a grade-schooler trying to debate Socrates. Back in your own lane.



So, not only did you not even skim the post, but you insist on this idiotic strawman, as if anyone had ever issued that argument? I've already explained in greater detail why you're not just wrong, but ill-equipped to even present your opinion on this. For future reference, Peter Pan Syndrome. You'd be wise to educate yourself before replying further.



You know what is regarded as an indicator of immaturity in an adult? The insistence in discriminating based upon known physical traits rather than individual merit. We mock bigots nowadays because the idea that people can find fault in a physical appearance or justify immaturity by age alone is such a vapid and worthless position to hold. It's like holding your high school accolades in high regard because those are the only time you were worth a damn to anyone. We tell those people to grow up because it's so pitiable that someone can't find value in something they can't measure.

Rudeus was physically middle-aged. But, that didn't play into his mental maturity by any degree. In fact, it was more a detriment because it meant he wasn't granted the kind of empathy an adolescent would have, which is where he mentally stagnated. Rudeus had the appearance of a middle-aged man, but what got shoved into that newborn wasn't anything remotely approaching an adult. I'd go so far as to say that Rudy got placed into a more appropriate vessel for his maturity.

Still realllllyyyyy slow, can't like or dislike it right now. What's with so many slow shows right now?

@Shinola and @Tylaen here is that fucking essay I promised.

First and foremost, let's address your primary argument, which is that Rudeus is an adult when, in fact, he isn't. Not physically. Not mentally. Spiritually, it's arguable, and again, Shikogami makes it clear that that is how Rudeus perceives himself. I couldn't even begin to describe to you how utterly gut-wrenching that reveal was, even post-Mass Teleportation Incident. Rudeus had spent much of the Demon Continent being more adult than he ever had been. He observed advice given to him by a higher being, made decisions that benefited his group, and even faced death knowing that was probably where his story would end. And after all that, how does he see himself? Still as the jobless, friendless shut-in sack of crap he was in his past life. No amount of external praise or goodness could alter the crappy image he had of himself.

Rudeus suffered trauma during his adolescence and in his past life. That being chained up incident? Believe it or not, that's a glimpse of what he experienced. It's uncomfortable because it's a microcosm of how utterly devastating it can be to be bullied so severely. Rudeus was a broken youth who regressed and shut himself away. He stopped trying, and despite the best efforts of his family, he rejected all aid because at his core, he believed himself unworthy. He didn't want to be saved. He saw the world at its cruelest and like any other victim of abuse, chalked it up to him deserving it. He then engaged in behaviors which helped him further validate that opinion he had of himself.

For further insight: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187546/

Particularly, Masch (2006) wroter that,



In other words, adverse experiences can confound the most surface-level understanding of how victims choose to interpret their trauma and how they behave going forward. Only within the last 10-ish years have we had a better understanding of how trauma can cause victims to escalate into more criminal behavior. This actually ties into how Rudeus behaves, but it's a small part of it.

Peter Pan Syndrome is described as,



Rudeus did not mature beyond his adolescent years. He's irresponsible, has difficulties in social and professional relationships as a result of both his irresponsible behavior and narcissistic properties. For the record, narcissists are considered to be persons with low self-esteem who present as highly competent and with above average confidence, but are also incredibly defensive. Rudeus, while I wouldn't say he is defensive, is rather arrogant and presents as far more competent than he actually is. At least, pre-Mass Teleportation Rudeus is.

The author is presenting the narrative as it is because it's presented from the perspective of a victim who regressed and withdrew from society. It killed him, first emotionally, then mentally, and finally, physically. The Rudeus we know before the Demon Continent is a person deeply damaged and given another chance to do better. He has all the support he could want. But, we see brief glimpses like with the bath incident where even though it was a misunderstanding, he still felt regret that he had betrayed someone so severely. Sylphie still wanting to be his friend must have made his inner self feel like it was reborn a second time.

People who are abused are often as likely to be perpetrators later in life. To quote,



(Lev-Wiesel R. Childhood sexual abuse: From conceptualization to treatment. J Trauma Treat. 2015;4. doi:10.4172/2167-1222.s4-016)


In short, Rudeus molesting anyone was himself trying to take back a power he was robbed of in his past life. It doesn't make what he does right, but it does enlighten one as to why he does what he does.

Rudeus, at his core, is a crappy person. You can't really empathize him without the greater context of his trauma, and the narrative gives it the briefest regard inasfar as it's necessary to comprehend what made him this way. The trauma is his main motivating factor for his more offensive behaviors because as far as he's concerned, it's the one thing he can control. Heck, our introduction to him is him jerking off inter-spliced with his parent's funeral. That should show you how depraved he has become that he's basically jerking off on his parent's graves. But, it's also the one part of himself he can control.

Assaulting Sylphie was a re-awakening of that trauma, but only in that he had now evoked the same harm that was done unto him upon someone he cared about. He probably wanted to die in that moment because it was a reminder of what had been done to him. Sylphie had no context, but forgave him regardless because their friendship was more important than a misunderstanding. Rudeus could go on living, but likely mistaking (like a child would) that his misdemeanors would be more readily forgiven in this world.

Through Eris, he learned there were indeed boundaries and crossing them had consequences. He learned respect for those boundaries, even if he might at times regress.It should be noted that from the onset, Eris was difficult to educate. She resented someone younger than her being in a position of power over her. Rudeus, in turn, resented that she was not receptive to his lessons and feeling powerless, likely desired to use the one thing he felt gave him power as a means of "taming" her. It clearly backfired multiple times.

Sex and sexual deviancy are a core factor of Rudeus as a character, but is not regarded favorably by the narrative. It's clear through his form when he meets with Shikogami that he regards himself as some disgusting, unwashed, abhorrent mass of wasted flesh that should be discarded immediately. He hates the form, but is inflicts it upon himself because at his core, he hates who he is despite whatever positive qualities he has acquired. The narrative considers Rudeus to be a terrible person given a second chance, and that's the kindest way of defining who he is. You have to imagine as he's written, how such a person might regard themselves, that they cling to that old, abhorrent self so desperately, yet desire to reject it just as much.

Which is why I have no respect for people who come into the MT fandom with their most basic, drooling infant understanding of media in general and proceed to make absolute asshats of themselves. You're not making a point by parroting the same ignorant idiocy of some dullard with zero subscribers on youtube. You're proving that critical thinking and effort into basic research is being replaced by mass stupidity because the dumbest opinion with the least insight can be parroted by a dozen fools who did even less research and applied even less thought to what they're consuming. I defend this show not because Rudeus is a good character, but because it took me multiple fucking google searches to do a basic character study of the main protagonist.

Hell, look at my forum signature. Not the one about Thorkell. Everyone knows tall people regard that as a highly-protected secret not meant for the masses. Imagine if short people learned how to do a seven-foot-high flying dropkick. Dwarfism would become a desirable trait.

I'm speaking about the Nanami Kenta quote. Being an adult isn't how you handle big situations. It's about control. Specifically, there are two types of control: internal, and external. Internal control is ourselves, how we react to things, how we interact with others, etc. It's personal, things we can influence. An example is doing a bit of extra studying before bed. You have the option to push yourself a bit further ahead than others, but there isn't a guarantee that your efforts will merit long-term benefits. But, it's something we can control.

External control are things we cannot influence. It's something like hairs falling out, or your favorite stuffed bread going out of rotation. Those are things we wish we could influence, but which we never can. We can choose to let it frustrate us to the point of action, or recognize that what once was is simple no longer. We can feel saddened briefly, but it is essential to acknowledge that those things matter little in the grand scheme of things.

Rudeus desperately desires to regain that control he lost and will regress in situations where he feels he has none. He's not doing it out of malice (not intentionally) or a general disregard for others. He's doing it as a way to cope with his trauma because it's the one thing he knows. Nobody in the fandom has ever said Rudy is a good person. We've all said he's a damaged person, even a crappy person, who does crappy things. But, the fandom loves the story because it's also a hopeful story of someone who was beaten and broken by a cruel world and saw his second chance as an opportunity to be more. It's a story about someone who was ruined finding a way to live for tomorrow.

And if that doesn't jive with you, well, kick rocks. This story is top-tier and your waifu is trash.

-Sylphie crew

@SentiOnikawa

I’m only gonna address these two parts, because honestly, whatever the fuck you went on about is so utterly fucking irrelevant to what was said as to be laughable as to think you’ve got any sort of point, beyond seeming to throw a bunch of intellectual-sounding references in there to get some good boy points.

Whatever trauma he went through, it does not matter. It did not regress his lived experience in the least bit, it did not change the fact that he was ported over as he was and that is how it’s presented as. We do not permit retarded adults to have sexual relations with children because they have the brain capacity of a child. Rudy expressly confirms those experiences, again and again. His trauma does not diminish his age 1 year, 1 month, 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 1 minute, 1 second, nothing.

Maturity is also such nebulous fucking concept as to be absolutely useless, as that is why we have the phrases "Mature for ones age" or "Wise beyond their years", and so forth. It tells us nothing, it only tells us what someone perceives to be adult behavior of which one could very likely just find an adult with those trait, like y'know, a retarded adult.

He has only age upwards, and his new physical body has no bearing on that as fantasy tends to allow us to make logical leaps, a kin to how a lot of very young looking girls tend to be just coincidentally very old. Y'know, kinda like Rudy's crush Roxy. A convenience to whatever the author wants to achieve.

Nothing in your whole-ass spiel reckoned with this. You made a side-argument to make yourself feel intellectual about yourself, so congratulations on finding the time to achieve nothing.



Too bad the Story proceeds to reward this bad behavior by having her so easily forgive him, an adult, and then later reward him with the same child as a prize for his good boy points. You could even frame the incident in the bedroom with Eris this way, except it ends the some way. Rudy is again forgiven, manchild that he is, and is rewarded not just with forgiveness but with promised sex with a child. This is, by the way, framed as a triumphant moment.


It's top tier trash. Having a Waifu in Sylphie whose only real thought since returning to the story has been some variation of "UwU roody"

Lmao.

@Tylaen I could effectively summarize both your entire perspective on people with actual trauma and how completely media illiterate you are with your own words.



Nothing I say could even approach anything resembling a reasonable justification for how utterly worthless you are as a Human being, that you deny a victim's trauma because it doesn't give the good feels to know that people can be so screwed up by something that hurt them that they become worse for it. People aren't homeless for the sole reason of being lazy. Some people have been abused as kids and got so messed up over it that they can't function as adults. And here you are, entitled little shit-stain of a Human being that you are, saying victim trauma doesn't matter.

I hope someone elects to remove your ability to breed. I can't imagine the suffering that any children you spawn would experience while under your care. Mostly because I can't imagine being such a monstrous sack of shit that I would wish that on anyone, even Hitler.

@SentiOnikawa

Rudy is a construct of writer, not an actual real life victim of anything beyond a writers inability to reckon with the concept he wrote into the lifeblood of the story itself. I do not have to feel an ounce of sympathy for a character someone wrote into their story as an effective unrepentant pedophile, and proceed to treat it as a joke material. Learn to differentiate between fiction and reality, like so many of your ilk says.

@Tylaen



Rudeus was the victim of abuse to the point he regressed and became a lifelong shut-in who indulged in the worst proclivities of Humanity before his demise. Being reborn into a new world with the memories and experiences of his past life wasn't going to undo his trauma. I would wager the writer did more research on the topic of abuse and victims than you did on breathing. Would explain why every reply is you choking on your own stupidity.



1) Hard to call someone a pedophile when they've mentally regressed since adolescence and are now an actual child. I bet you go around calling children pedophiles when they hold hands together. You seem that mentally ill.

2) Provide me 3 examples where it is treated as a joke. With Eris and in both cases, he wasn't immediately forgiven nor was it meant as a joke. He crossed lines, got his crap slapped, and then the scene moved on. Fuck around and find out, as the kids say nowadays.



The irony is palpable. You're stuck in your own fiction where invalidating the experiences of abuse victims is fine and where everyone engages with media objectively and from a perfectly moral position. Like, aight bud, you keep believing that.

Meanwhile, Mushoku Tensei's second season is currently in the top 100 of anime, above Oshi No Ko. I would say statistically-speaking, the consensus would weigh heavily in my favor. Imagine not just getting humiliated publicly by a superior, but also ratio'd solely through viewership and still insisting that the hill you are dedicated to dying on is worth looking like a clown for. Yikes.

Anyways, humiliated you enough. Don't worry, this is the last time I'll engage you anywhere. I got bored enough that my replies became sporadic, that's how ill-equipped you are as a person. I advise going back to school and I dunno, touching grass.