The Empty Box and Zeroth Maria (light novel)
LightBladeNova said: Finished Volume 1, was quite the entertaining read, but some of the prose/dialogue felt awkward and unnatural, especially coming from high school students... this might just be due to the English translation, but it was distracting sometimes. Know that I'm not saying that high schoolers aren't capable of using better vocabulary, but some lines just feel off nonetheless, in my opinion. [...] That's actually some great feedback -- thanks! I might edit the text accordingly, but don't hesitate to make changes that you see fit yourself on Baka-Tsuki. If it flows bad or sounds awkward, it's probably because of the translation. In terms of editing quality Hakomari is in a pretty poor state, sadly. The first volume still counts as one of the heavier revised ones though; the second volume should be quite a bit worse in this respect, since it hasn't been fully edited at all (and probably never will). Volume 5 & 6 are newer and thus in a much better state. |
EusthEnoptEron said: LightBladeNova said: Finished Volume 1, was quite the entertaining read, but some of the prose/dialogue felt awkward and unnatural, especially coming from high school students... this might just be due to the English translation, but it was distracting sometimes. Know that I'm not saying that high schoolers aren't capable of using better vocabulary, but some lines just feel off nonetheless, in my opinion. [...] That's actually some great feedback -- thanks! I might edit the text accordingly, but don't hesitate to make changes that you see fit yourself on Baka-Tsuki. If it flows bad or sounds awkward, it's probably because of the translation. In terms of editing quality Hakomari is in a pretty poor state, sadly. The first volume still counts as one of the heavier revised ones though; the second volume should be quite a bit worse in this respect, since it hasn't been fully edited at all (and probably never will). Volume 5 & 6 are newer and thus in a much better state. I see you're the translator (or one of them) for HakoMari then? Sorry if my feedback was kinda harsh, I do really appreciate your efforts in translating such an interesting LN. I may make some changes later on once I'm caught up with the story then haha, thanks. The problem is that I only know a little bit of Japanese, so I can only go off of the current translation, not the original Japanese text. I do know that sometimes, stuff that sounds cool in Japanese doesn't translate well to English, so yeah... we'll see, I guess. Out of all those lines I quoted in my previous post, I definitely think that the "I absolutely refuse to abandon you to solitude!" is the most glaringly awkward one, since it's supposed to be a very emotional, climactic line. The rest aren't as bad; some I can kinda accept. I'm just kinda picky haha, sorry. |
| "Beyond the veil of cherry blossom petals blown by the wind - almost like their promised reunion - Feelings pile up with the passage of time: once the torrent of emotions comes rushing down, what is the spectacle that awaits?" |
LightBladeNova said: I see you're the translator (or one of them) for HakoMari then? Sorry if my feedback was kinda harsh, I do really appreciate your efforts in translating such an interesting LN. Exactly. Also, don't worry about being harsh; I'm really thankful for any constructive feedback I can get, because as a non-native speaker who's not actively trying to work on his English, I sometimes simply lack the right vocabulary, and most readers just don't care enough to tell me where there's room for improvement. ;) Out of all those lines I quoted in my previous post, I definitely think that the "I absolutely refuse to abandon you to solitude!" is the most glaringly awkward one, since it's supposed to be a very emotional, climactic line. The rest aren't as bad; some I can kinda accept. I'm just kinda picky haha, sorry. That line was actually rewritten quite a few times (started off as "under no circumstances will I abandon you" which is also a bit quirky). I'll have to take a look at the source to judge if it's supposed to be a bit "over-the-top". :D |
EusthEnoptEronApr 17, 2015 6:49 AM
| There was times when I've also feels that language is somewhat unnatural and/or awkward but I let it slip for the story, I was too busy bein' immersed in text to think "how I would better say this or that?" And yes, anyway - thanks for translations. |
 There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value.  Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
| I'm in love with this series currently on volume 2. This is the first time I've ever read a light novel. I wasn't too sure I was going to adopt too well in reading a light novel, but it was actually pretty easy to get in it. I've a amazing imagination, so maybe that's why I was able to adopt so quickly to this reading style. The real reason why I started this series even knowing that it wasn't a manga is because it's rank #2. This series gives me the death note/ steins gate feel. Really like the first volume. |
| A very interesting premise. It seemed quite original, philosophical and amusing. And kudos to the translator(s), they did an amazing job. |
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| Damn, this was epic. After the first 50 pages I just got addicted and read the rest in one go. This is the first light novel I read so it did take some time for me get used to it espcially considering that I've grown so accustomed to watching anime and reading manga. The characters were really good but what I enjoyed the most was the dialogue, truly some of the best I've seen. The translation did seem a bit off and I did have some trouble understanding some parts ( I'm also to blame for that). Stories like these are the reason I love psychological mystery thriller genres so much, it just makes you crave for more. |
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| This is my first light novel, and I was blown away by the techniques the author used to make the the reader assume. It was all really confusing at first, but after going back and reading parts of it as I went along, it all started to piece together. There was that section after Kazuki was presumed to be killed by Maria where we were led to believe that it was Maria's monologue and that she was going insane from the iterations, but the monologue actually belonged to Kasumi! And it then turned out that Maria never killed anyone, and no one needed corpse to retain memories. It was just everyone saving each other from the unavoidable truck accident resulting in their deaths. And then due to Kokone being the one to call Kazuki to ask him to go to the park, we were led to assume that in the very next section, that it was Kokone that was confessing to him when her name was never even mentioned. And they were never digging through Kokone's bag, they were actually digging through Kasumi's. Kokone's name was never even mention here either! The author completely fooled me, and I was blown away when I realized all these things after the reveal of Kasumi being the owner of the box. I couldn't help but be in a state of awe within the next few minutes. This was fucking awesome. I loved it! |
| There wasn't chapter. Site: bakatsuki |
Cuckold said: I was just confused because the database entry says there are 40 chapters overall. Well, that happens when you count all the iterations as "chapters". I recommend just entering the volumes, since Hakomari doesn't really have chapters. |
alphacompton said: LightBladeNova said: Finished Volume 1, was quite the entertaining read, but some of the prose/dialogue felt awkward and unnatural, especially coming from high school students... this might just be due to the English translation, but it was distracting sometimes. Know that I'm not saying that high schoolers aren't capable of using better vocabulary, but some lines just feel off nonetheless, in my opinion. Like seriously (I'm mainly taking quotes from near the end of Volume 1, there are some more throughout the whole arc), "Don't address Kazu-kun with such familiarity!" - Mogi, pg 185. ("with such familiarity" sounds awkward, I would've written something like "Don't talk as if you know Kazu-kun so well!" EDIT: Going through the text again, I wouldn't have written that sorry, cuz my revision doesn't refer to Maria's familiar addressing of Kazuki as "Kazuki", by first name; basically the two sentences mean different things in context. The original still sounds pretty awkward though) "Do you know why I refrained, even though you were clearly a nuisance? - Mogi, pg 193. ("refrained" felt unnatural, just use "didn't" instead) "I can't forgive the Rejecting Classroom that's so removed from everyday life!" - Kazuki, pg 201. ("that's so removed from everyday life" sounds dumb, not to mention anti-climactic. But if there has to be "everyday life" in there, then I would've written it like "I can't forgive the Rejecting Classroom for screwing up [my] everyday life!"). "I absolutely refuse to abandon you to solitude!" - Kazuki, pg 203. (aw hell, this was just the dumbest... seriously, try saying this out loud -___- didn't help that this line was repeated a few times. Should've just been something like "I will not [or won't] leave you alone like this!") "If this is the Rejecting Classroom where everything is rendered void, then I can’t accept that. I have to engage in my genuine everyday life in order to protect the meaning of life. Therefore, I deny the box that denies true everyday life.” - Kazuki, pg 234. (not this again...this is less about the prose I guess, and more about just how awkward this sounds, even if it's a message I agree with) "Kazu-kun, do you think there are unchanging feelings?" - Mogi, pg 262. (eh, this one's okay I guess, but I feel that "do you think there are feelings that never change?" flows more smoothly, and just has a bit more impact. By the way though, the rest of this scene was great, no real complaints there) Those are just a few of the awkward lines I encountered throughout the arc. If they don't sound awkward to you, then that's good for you then, but it was just a little distracting for me. Besides that though, I did enjoy Volume 1 a lot, and am looking forward to reading the rest. _________________________________________________________________ I agree with you. There are a few places where I really didn't like the choice of words but that could be translation or English not being the first language issues. I just finished the first novel and I think the story is nice but somehow not as impressive as I thought it would be. With over 27,000 days you'd expect some characters to get fleshed out more. Especially Mogi, I liked that Kazuki questioned how he felt about her but I disliked that he was pretty unclear about how he felt. I guess because his love was forced? He liked her or at least he really believed he did so I was confused as to why he was rejecting her, or maybe I'm thinking of Kokone? I could have sworn that he was lying on Mogi's lap at gym one time and he was very happy about it. You'd think this person wouldn't say no to the girl he likes, at least while ignorant of the Rejecting Classroom. Yay, it's nice to hear someone agrees with me haha. Like you, I found Volume 1 nice, but not like... this amazingly godly masterpiece that so many people seem to be claiming around here. It was a good read (barring the prose distractions), but yeah. |
| "Beyond the veil of cherry blossom petals blown by the wind - almost like their promised reunion - Feelings pile up with the passage of time: once the torrent of emotions comes rushing down, what is the spectacle that awaits?" |
alphacompton said: I think the writing style is great. It's exactly what I want from an engrossing read, which it was. A good mix of internal monologue and characters who try to think things out. However even with lots of good points, I feel this story so far just has lots of potential but doesn't really use it. I think this books age shows ( I know... it's only a few years old) but there was a lot the author could have done to make things have more impact. We never really saw Kazu use the ability to remember things like Maria. I know it's inconsistent for him but doing other things with his time and attempting to "stress test" the system could have went a long way. Maria was probably meant to be an annoying character so I forgive her since she has been through so many transfers but it kinda feels like the author is going to use her as a romantic interest and she doesn't deserve it. I know I didn't skip any chapter but what happened with Mogi? Kazu was in love with her, why did he act like he didn't like her? I understand at the end she found out she was the one who trapped them there but I think his answer made no sense in the slightest , I know it was supposed to be somewhat nostalgic at that point of their original confession which would normally be cute but come on, the chick is about to die and lose everything because the guy she loves doesn't love her back, and the guys answer is "ask me tomorrow", that's like telling a kid with terminal illness that he will understand the world when he becomes an adult..... what the fuck? The last scene with Maria , again the nostalgia factor, we didn't even know she would be alive because she said she would disappear. I think a hug and/or tears would have been more appropriate considering the life or death circumstances. Have you still only read the first volume? If so, then I don't think you can talk about the story not using its potential... since the plot escalates in scope and intensity as the story progresses. But if this is just about Volume 1, then I'm not really feeling your complaints honestly, but I at least agree that it wasn't the best thing ever. I don't really get why people think the story deserves a 10 already just for the first volume alone. The mystery wasn't that mindblowingly great or intelligent; it was just a tricky manipulation of POV flashbacks and scene transitions. Certainly not "genius" material (though, the scene with O disguised as Haruaki near the end was pretty good). The suspense was good, but the prose (due partly to several unnatural-sounding sections, and due partly to the... explanatory way of writing that the story often uses) wasn't evocative enough to really convey much *power*. The characters were pretty well-handled given the relatively short story arc, but the unnatural, mechanical dialogue kinda screwed some of their scenes over for me. I'm almost halfway through Volume 6 and I still haven't been truly OMG-amazed (I'll still probably end up giving it a 9/10 though, cuz I tend to be pretty lenient with my ratings and inflate them). Quite a good read overall, but "masterpiece" and "best novel ever" is pushing it. |
LightBladeNovaSep 21, 2015 6:09 PM
| "Beyond the veil of cherry blossom petals blown by the wind - almost like their promised reunion - Feelings pile up with the passage of time: once the torrent of emotions comes rushing down, what is the spectacle that awaits?" |
| Loved it. Had my full attention the entire time, and I couldn't stop reading. I'm very interested in where the story goes on from here. 5/5 |
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alphacompton said: I know I didn't skip any chapter but what happened with Mogi? Kazu was in love with her, why did he act like he didn't like her? I understand at the end she found out she was the one who trapped them there but I think his answer made no sense in the slightest , I know it was supposed to be somewhat nostalgic at that point of their original confession which would normally be cute but come on, the chick is about to die and lose everything because the guy she loves doesn't love her back, and the guys answer is "ask me tomorrow", that's like telling a kid with terminal illness that he will understand the world when he becomes an adult..... what the fuck? Mogi's wish was to redo the real March 2nd, which the thousands of other loops weren't part of. Hoshi was never in love with her initially, and only fell for her during the other iterations. By answering as if he was the original Hoshi of the first iteration, he was effectively granting Mogi's wish. At least, that's my take on it. |
| Finished volume one. It was really good and would even work as a stand-alone story I think. I'd rate that volume 8/10. Looking forward to the rest of the series. It's the first Light Novel I ever read and I must say after some difficulties getting into it (probably more due to the plot, of course I've read other books before) I really like the possibilities it provides over visual mediums such as anime and manga. |
| This was a really good LN so far. I would give this volume 5/5. It reminds me kokoro connect, steins;gate, and higurashi all rolled into one for some reason. Well on to Volume 2 :D. |
| This was my first LN ever. Hell i do not even read manga so much because i was always that "Only anime because there is sound and action" guy but after reading Gantz (my first manga ever) i got really interested in reading so i decided to search for new thing to read. And i was surprised that Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria is on second place and i NEVER heard about it. I couldnt find it in any shop so i decided to read it from baka-tsuki (great work EusthEnoptEron, really amazing translation). Started reading it and what can i say...my mind is blown away. The pacing, the atmosphere, the mystery, characters...everything is perfect and the idea about "boxes" is pretty unique aswell. After watching Higurashi i though i wont ever find anything similar with time loops but here i fond that masterpiece novel. It is really worth reading, even just for Volume 1 that could be a standalone book. I hope rest of the volumes will be at least on a decent level and it won't end in such disappointing way as for example my previous manga that was for sure rushed through at the end. I just realised there will be an official release in my country and i will for sure buy it to support such great art. |
Ebrietas said: I thought it was .... merely ok, not nearly as good as people made it out to be. Yeah, I have no idea how people are calling it a masterpiece. Mystery never gripped me and never made me care who CULPRIT was, the characters felt like generic trope anime characters I've seen so many times before, the romance was weird and creepy and I feel like the author was trying to make me get into it, and the prose was usually rough at best. The only thing I kind of like was the time loops, but I'd rather read the Another One Bites The Dust arc of Diamond is Unbreakable again. |
wraith122 said: There is a [Spoilers] |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
| 8/10 or so, I enjoyed it for the most part. |
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| Awesome start to this series. At first I thought Kirino being the owner would have been too predictable, but when it was revealed that it was Mogi all along, I was really satisfied with the outcome. I already love the characters and the writing is top-notch. Some moments were really well done and the buildup was nice (like when it was revealed that Usui was O all along). It wasn't really complex but it was definitely unpredictable for the most part. I really likes the structure of the first volume, as it kept on jumping back and forth between "times/tries". Kazuki's monologues almsot always has my attention since they're so damn intriguing. He's quite aa simplistic character, but his monologues make him more complex. I don't think I've read anything that kept my attention for that long, so I'm really excited to see how things turn out. Luckily Mogi survived though :D 5/5 |
GoldenDevilGamerJul 30, 2016 12:56 PM
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| Ok, I really don't get the fuss around this. >9 rating, what?? The story is nothing special, characters are nothing special. It's really just a shitty generic school romance with some "unique" story perks. A lot of things feel super forced, the concept is good... but nothing more. I will continue reading it though, I hope it gets more interesting in the next volumes. |
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Aquamirror said: Ok, I really don't get the fuss around this. >9 rating, what?? The story is nothing special, characters are nothing special. It's really just a shitty generic school romance with some "unique" story perks. A lot of things feel super forced, the concept is good... but nothing more. I will continue reading it though, I hope it gets more interesting in the next volumes. -COMES TO THE DEFENCE !!!- (not really..) *reads vol1 a bit": >9 rating ?!?!? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS ?!?!?!?! What kind of answer do you expect :D ?I just don't get why some people like you always write this kind of posts, I guess I will never find out why. Do you expect someone to convince you otherwise ? No one has to like anything (yeah even if it's in top 10, I guess you didn't see that comin) Check out this guy for example: Velsu said: The pacing, the atmosphere, the mystery, characters...everything is perfect and the idea about "boxes" is pretty unique aswell. I guess he's out of his mind... such a shame. The thing is: with that mindset of "why is this in top 10, I don't get it", you just read it for the sake of reading it and to see "what's this fuss about", instead of just enjoying it. If you didn't like the story then drop it, no matter how "good" is the upcoming volumes, I highly doubt it will change your mind or the mindset you have. You don't have to read it, just don't force yourself to read it or make a fuss about it like "WHY IS THIS IN TOP 10 I DON'T GET IT" bcs it will just end up as a waste of your time. Oh, and btw : I didn't like Oyasumi Punpun to be honest. I was SURE that I would like it but I didn't (HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE !?!?!). Should I make a fuss about it ? Does it bother me that it it's in top 10 ? |
DustroDec 28, 2016 6:19 PM
| @Dustro, don't feed a troll. Didn't you recognize typical pattern? 0nly generic claims that can easily be applied to almost any other work, nothing specific. |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Persona anime are good. Deal with it. |
kitsune0 said: @Dustro, don't feed a troll. Didn't you recognize typical pattern? 0nly generic claims that can easily be applied to almost any other work, nothing specific. *sigh*, I know, I know... |
| Now I'm a troll because I didn't like this? top fucking kek Chill, my expectations were different, but I'm not dropping this. Do you want only positive comments here? I thought this forum was for the purpose of stating my opinion of the series. Too much fangays here I guess... |
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Aquamirror said: Now I'm a troll because I didn't like this? top fucking kek Chill, my expectations were different, but I'm not dropping this. Do you want only positive comments here? I thought this forum was for the purpose of stating my opinion of the series. Too much fangays here I guess... HAHAHAHAHA Then don't drop it, oh and btw wrote me when you "finish" it, I would love to hear your thoughts, seriously. |
DustroDec 29, 2016 5:06 AM
| Getting the monogatari vibes from this arc. Especially the gimmick with the classroom, it reminds me the phantom classroom in Owarimongatari - was it? |
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| I thought i wouldnt like this, the premise isnt really that interesting and the number of repetitions seems like overblown/an exaggeration but well those things doesn't even matter I liked how the author almost perfect paced out the storytelling, ending one repetition and giving us the slightest clues as to whats actually going on. He even saved the first ever repetition for last which heavily implied Maria already knew about the MC(but not of his involvement) |
| Nice. I had read this back in 2015 but I decided to re-read it in order to complete it. I liked the premise, the mystery and the cast, though I'm still quite indifferent towards Maria. 8/10 for the first volume, Kasumi was my favourite character. |
| A kinda cute of a mystery, or rather, a bizarre story of life and dreams.... My favorite part would be when Kazuki finally dared to be an accomplice with Maria and spouted those Shakespearean-like greetings. |
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| lemme preface this by saying i haven't finished the volume yet. i'm about half way through. i just kinda wanted to get some clarification, i guess? even though i'm enjoying reading this (it's certainly intriguing), it's also causing me a bit of a headache. am i just unused to light novels (i've only read one before this - vol 1 of the tg lns), or is this story purposefully confusing? i'm inclined to believe the latter, that the author is employing that sort of technique where they throw you in at the deep end without any information, but a part of me worries that i may just be stupid for not fully understanding/being able to get to grips with this plot lol. or maybe i should wait until i finish vol 1 before having any questions??? idk i mean, the PLOT itself i get. time loop shenanigans. pretty straightforward on that front. i guess it's just the narrative and timeline structure i'm struggling to come to grips with? tl;dr: 1. am i just unused to the light novel format, or 2. am i just stupid, or 3. this story is purposefully confusing and i'm not dumb |
fishpun said: It's #3, the story is intentionally confusing. Volume 1 makes more sense by the end. That's the case with most arc, where nothing truly makes sense until everything is tied up together by the end of the arc. The series is written in a very confusing matter and Mikage has a thing for tricking the readers in believe the opposite of the truth. Sometimes things are written in a way where it can mean two different things, yet the readers only perceive the wrong outcome. Though, this happens more during volume 3-6.3. this story is purposefully confusing and i'm not dumb |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: It's #3, the story is intentionally confusing. Volume 1 makes more sense by the end. oh my god, that's extremely relieving to hear haha! thank you :D |
| goddamn y'all weren't kidding, huh? still haven't finished the novel (only 55 pages left to go, though), i just had to stop by to comment about the sheer brilliance of the wording used in this story. ***BIG SPOILER ALERT, LOOK AWAY NOW!*** *** ** * i just got past the kitchen scene. when i read a little further onward, i was SO fucking confused, because i was like 'there's no way, you can't just do that, like that's some real bullshit narrative, he literally SAYS that mogi is the one on the floor???'. i went back, re-read it, and was like 'man, that's really crappy. like if you're going to have an unreliable narrator, at least do it right...' but then i re-read it again. and the wording of it really hit me. UTTER. GENIUS. the best/worst part of it all? i'd suspected for a LONG while that mogi was the owner of the box - so the kitchen scene kind of threw me for a tailspin. i wasn't completely dissuaded of my theory but it did make me think 'ok so i GUESS it COULD be kirino, too'. ......yeah, just kinda wanted to drop a quick props here, 'cause i've never been tricked by a narrative like this before. and to think it came from a light novel of all things lmao not that i can really talk as i've read hardly any ln's i just notice that they have a reputation for being trashy and pretty badly written |
| Just finished Vol. 1 (Yen Press) and gotta say that I'm a little disappointed. I found the premise intriguing and the rating promising, but I ended up giving it a 6/10. Near the end of the book I started to think this series must be overhyped or get way better later on, but after reading the comments here, I think it's a matter of perspective. I went into it just waiting for the plot twists that seemingly came as a surprise for others. Even if you don't predict what exactly is gonna happen, just waiting for the twist to come probably spoils the surprise a little. If something wasn't 100% clear or a little confusing I figured "and a twist here and a twist there", and that's what happened. In addition to that I found several dialogues or reactions of the characters weird, and like others have said not what I would expect from High School students. It's interesting that this was apparently a problem with the fan translation as well, so I guess it's either that way in the Japanese original too or just translates *really* bad. Despite all this I did find the base idea interesting and do kinda want to know what happens next, I'm just a little worried after reading that 1) volumes 1 and 7 supposedly are the best and 2) this twist style continues. I don't know how I feel about reading 5 more volumes that apparently aren't as good before getting to the next one that is on the same level as this one. If anyone here has a similar opinion to mine and has read all of the them, I'd appreciate a word about what I can expect^^ |
exectails said: Just finished Vol. 1 (Yen Press) and gotta say that I'm a little disappointed. I found the premise intriguing and the rating promising, but I ended up giving it a 6/10. Near the end of the book I started to think this series must be overhyped or get way better later on, but after reading the comments here, I think it's a matter of perspective. I went into it just waiting for the plot twists that seemingly came as a surprise for others. Even if you don't predict what exactly is gonna happen, just waiting for the twist to come probably spoils the surprise a little. If something wasn't 100% clear or a little confusing I figured "and a twist here and a twist there", and that's what happened. In addition to that I found several dialogues or reactions of the characters weird, and like others have said not what I would expect from High School students. It's interesting that this was apparently a problem with the fan translation as well, so I guess it's either that way in the Japanese original too or just translates *really* bad. Despite all this I did find the base idea interesting and do kinda want to know what happens next, I'm just a little worried after reading that 1) volumes 1 and 7 supposedly are the best and 2) this twist style continues. I don't know how I feel about reading 5 more volumes that apparently aren't as good before getting to the next one that is on the same level as this one. If anyone here has a similar opinion to mine and has read all of the them, I'd appreciate a word about what I can expect^^ Volumes 3 and onwards give the characters more depth, explains stuff about their personalities |
exectails said: I'll say this, I liked volumes 4-7 more than volume 1. But even if you don't like the first volume, you could still like the rest of the series. The thing is that each arc has its own style. Maybe the style of the first volume, which is time loops, might be unappealing to you. If you like stuff like Danganronpa (or the concept of it), you might like volume 3-4. If you like Death Note's style, you may like volume 5-6's approach. Since you liked Re:Zero, you might like the last volume. Since you've dropped Steins;Gate, it seems reasonable why you wouldn't like volume 1's approach. Volume 2 is the weakest for most people, but maybe you'd like that volume more. Just finished Vol. 1 (Yen Press) and gotta say that I'm a little disappointed. I found the premise intriguing and the rating promising, but I ended up giving it a 6/10. Near the end of the book I started to think this series must be overhyped or get way better later on, but after reading the comments here, I think it's a matter of perspective. I went into it just waiting for the plot twists that seemingly came as a surprise for others. Even if you don't predict what exactly is gonna happen, just waiting for the twist to come probably spoils the surprise a little. If something wasn't 100% clear or a little confusing I figured "and a twist here and a twist there", and that's what happened. In addition to that I found several dialogues or reactions of the characters weird, and like others have said not what I would expect from High School students. It's interesting that this was apparently a problem with the fan translation as well, so I guess it's either that way in the Japanese original too or just translates *really* bad. Despite all this I did find the base idea interesting and do kinda want to know what happens next, I'm just a little worried after reading that 1) volumes 1 and 7 supposedly are the best and 2) this twist style continues. I don't know how I feel about reading 5 more volumes that apparently aren't as good before getting to the next one that is on the same level as this one. If anyone here has a similar opinion to mine and has read all of the them, I'd appreciate a word about what I can expect^^ I don't think volume 1 was that heavy on plot twists. I think the real selling point for the volume was the writing style. The way certain scenes are written are to make the readers believe the opposite of the truth, without actually being lied too. The way things are worded can mean two different things, yet the reader is prone to believe what's actually not happening. And when the revelations do happen, the reader will be like "No, that doesn't make sense because before they mentioned that ___ did this". But when you look back, you'll realize that the writing never says that, the reader automatically assumes so because of the way its written. This happens much more during volume 3 and 4 though. And yeah, not only do certain character don't talk like normal high schoolers, they also don't act like it either. The characters have their reasons for their personalities, which will be focused on later. |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: fishpun said: It's #3, the story is intentionally confusing. Volume 1 makes more sense by the end. That's the case with most arc, where nothing truly makes sense until everything is tied up together by the end of the arc. The series is written in a very confusing matter and Mikage has a thing for tricking the readers in believe the opposite of the truth. Sometimes things are written in a way where it can mean two different things, yet the readers only perceive the wrong outcome. Though, this happens more during volume 3-6.3. this story is purposefully confusing and i'm not dumb This is rather disappointing for me to hear, because this was the big sticking point for me in this volume: a good mystery should be possible for the reader to solve through logic (not just a wild guess or "metagaming") before the solution is revealed, and that's really not possible here. It doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) guaranteed that you'll get it, but this explicitly ruled out the actual culprit as a possibility due to an unreliable piece of information that was presented as reliable, to the point that it seems like a major plot hole until they explain it later on. I admit that the way you're tricked is clever writing, but I think it was a poorly-conceived decision, and definitely not something you can pull more than once without alienating people. And even once is iffy, because now I can never be sure again if they're giving me correct information or if it's more "well, that's what we thought but I guess we were wrong." It didn't completely ruin the story for me though, it was still interesting, but if this is going to be a constant thing, then I'm concerned... |
| "EVERYBODY, CLAP YOUR HANDS!" "PLUS ULTRA!" |
MistLiigh said: Mikage's tricking the readers with his choice of wording, but he never lies either. The truth is always within the words, only if it were to be interpreted differently. Almost all the mysteries have logical answers to them, and a good chunk of them can be solved with the clues and hints given to the reader. It's just that the reader needs to make sure that he's interpreting the "clues" the way as they should. If you look back at the first volume, there's hints about who the culprit is from very early on. I think it's totally possible to assume the proper culprit ones you get to read the culprit's "backstory" or "past) and how their affection towards Kazuki came to be. And if you remember that Kazuki has gotten closer to a certain someone without remembering how, then you can easily piece the two together and find out who the real culprit it. Of course, not many people won't realize this until they're done with the novel, but the clues and hints were still there. Only the protagonist rules out culprits and the readers shouldn't be doing the same. Contrary to most light novels, Kazuki's not supposed to be a self-insert (and considering his behavior throughout the series, it's obvious that Kazuki's not necessarily an "ideal" character to put yourself into). Even if Kazuki rules out something, its important to consider the contrary too. And the later volumes have moments where the point-of-view switches to other characters, so it's important not to keep your views solely consistent with one specific character's point of view. GoldenDevilGamer said: It's #3, the story is intentionally confusing. Volume 1 makes more sense by the end. That's the case with most arc, where nothing truly makes sense until everything is tied up together by the end of the arc. The series is written in a very confusing matter and Mikage has a thing for tricking the readers in believe the opposite of the truth. Sometimes things are written in a way where it can mean two different things, yet the readers only perceive the wrong outcome. Though, this happens more during volume 3-6. This is rather disappointing for me to hear, because this was the big sticking point for me in this volume: a good mystery should be possible for the reader to solve through logic (not just a wild guess or "metagaming") before the solution is revealed, and that's really not possible here. It doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) guaranteed that you'll get it, but this explicitly ruled out the actual culprit as a possibility due to an unreliable piece of information that was presented as reliable, to the point that it seems like a major plot hole until they explain it later on. I admit that the way you're tricked is clever writing, but I think it was a poorly-conceived decision, and definitely not something you can pull more than once without alienating people. And even once is iffy, because now I can never be sure again if they're giving me correct information or if it's more "well, that's what we thought but I guess we were wrong." It didn't completely ruin the story for me though, it was still interesting, but if this is going to be a constant thing, then I'm concerned... Still though, it still may not be your type of mystery series. Also on a side note, volume 2's is considered the weakest in the series due to the outcome being highly predictable. It still has interesting character dynamics though. |
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GoldenDevilGamer said: MistLiigh said: Mikage's tricking the readers with his choice of wording, but he never lies either. The truth is always within the words, only if it were to be interpreted differently. Almost all the mysteries have logical answers to them, and a good chunk of them can be solved with the clues and hints given to the reader. It's just that the reader needs to make sure that he's interpreting the "clues" the way as they should. If you look back at the first volume, there's hints about who the culprit is from very early on. I think it's totally possible to assume the proper culprit ones you get to read the culprit's "backstory" or "past) and how their affection towards Kazuki came to be. And if you remember that Kazuki has gotten closer to a certain someone without remembering how, then you can easily piece the two together and find out who the real culprit it. Of course, not many people won't realize this until they're done with the novel, but the clues and hints were still there. Only the protagonist rules out culprits and the readers shouldn't be doing the same. Contrary to most light novels, Kazuki's not supposed to be a self-insert (and considering his behavior throughout the series, it's obvious that Kazuki's not necessarily an "ideal" character to put yourself into). Even if Kazuki rules out something, its important to consider the contrary too. And the later volumes have moments where the point-of-view switches to other characters, so it's important not to keep your views solely consistent with one specific character's point of view. This is rather disappointing for me to hear, because this was the big sticking point for me in this volume: a good mystery should be possible for the reader to solve through logic (not just a wild guess or "metagaming") before the solution is revealed, and that's really not possible here. It doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) guaranteed that you'll get it, but this explicitly ruled out the actual culprit as a possibility due to an unreliable piece of information that was presented as reliable, to the point that it seems like a major plot hole until they explain it later on. I admit that the way you're tricked is clever writing, but I think it was a poorly-conceived decision, and definitely not something you can pull more than once without alienating people. And even once is iffy, because now I can never be sure again if they're giving me correct information or if it's more "well, that's what we thought but I guess we were wrong." It didn't completely ruin the story for me though, it was still interesting, but if this is going to be a constant thing, then I'm concerned... Still though, it still may not be your type of mystery series. Also on a side note, volume 2's is considered the weakest in the series due to the outcome being highly predictable. It still has interesting character dynamics though. That's a fair way to look at it. I do realize that he never actually lied to the reader, but there is intentional deceit. And I'm not outright against that, red herrings exist for a reason, I'm just iffy on how it was handled here. When it comes down to it, what rubs me the wrong way is just that, even if I don't come to the right conclusion, I can usually think back and right away go "oooh, okay yeah, I guess they did hint at that at X time, and there too... Ya got me, but I can see where someone could have gotten this," but I can't do that here. Maybe I will go back and read this again sometime soon to see if I can find anything that will change my mind, maybe have an "aha!" moment that shifts my opinion of this. For now, I'm of the opinion that this is a really interesting story, there was just one major detail in the execution that I didn't care for. |
| "EVERYBODY, CLAP YOUR HANDS!" "PLUS ULTRA!" |
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