| The biggest flaw I see here is the bullet casing and how you express it must be her own because it was too far from the road. That's not a problem at all. It's very easy for casings to be launched 10, 15, even 20 feet away from where they were fired. Especially in the case of a round fired through a suppressor, which chokes the gas that is released when a round is fired, which in turn creates more back pressure which will exit out of the ejection slot with the spent casing. What I think happened is that Reiji finally helped Elen find the place that would make her whole. A past; an existence outside of a life of death and despair. He knew inferno was tracking him, and having finally fulfilled the promise he made to one of the people he loves the most, could finally stop running. He stepped away from Elen because he knew his time had come, and didn't want her to bear witness to his end and ruin their final moment together, when she finally smiles. The man in the cart kills Reiji, and when Elen discovers him, she ends her life. She says the memories of him are enough for her to continue living, but earlier in the series she also says she has nothing and noone if Reiji dies, and could not go on to live without him. She has her memories and that will never change. Her entire will to live was driven by the love she developed for Reiji, and their plans together. Having killed the man who put her in a state of pure despair, escaping with the one she loves, and finally finding her home, where she came from, she can die in peace and forever be with Reiji. They've finally found peace. |
ShiveronSep 13, 2012 7:07 AM
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise the Oppai ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ  |
drakere said: This is just a stupid addition and distasteful addition to the anime just to add a "shock" factor to the ending of the anime This never happens in the VN. Rest assured, they both live happily live ever after. Seriously, Zwei, an infamous assassin and survived impossible life and death situations and who can dodge bullets like dodging rain in a storm, is somehow found in the middle of who knows, Mongolia and caught off guard? Yeah right. Just a extremely bad way to shock viewers. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally I think the ending was great. I feel that maybe after months of feeling he was free, Reiji let his guard down. I think that maybe he knew death was coming for him and instead of worrying about survival (something that Inferno and Sythe used to control him) he tried to enjoy what time he had left with Elen as an act of defiance for the two years he spent as their slave. I also belive that Elen was shot. Overall great anime! I need to find a U.S. copy of the video game that started it all :) |
| This thread is stupid. You can't kill yourself by eating a geranium. The worst you could get is some nausea or irritations. |
| -Fixing- |
| Ha, thanks. I was like "da hell just happened?" |
 |
hhickey said: That ending made me so mad I stormed out of my living room! I really appreciate your thoughts on the ending because I was lost. I never understood the missing petal just assumed it was a symbol for losing Reji but your idea makes more sense. It would have been nice to have a happy ending but the bitter sweet and more realistic ending was needed. I know they are just characters but I really wished they could have grown old together. This show put forth effort in showing how fucked up the world can be at times so it's only fitting they didn't get a happy ending. Fact is most people like them never do. btw Geraniums aren't even deadly if eaten lol |
AvereOct 1, 2012 5:29 AM
| Sorry for butting in, but quick question. Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom has like a Mafia setting so I was wondering if you guys think it's better in dubs or subs ? |
| "However, by that point you'll have been torn into pieces." |
| Thanks again everyone for both positive and negative feedback, I really do appreciate it! I fixed a few things so feel free to check it out! :) - OriginANIME Matthew671 said: Sorry for butting in, but quick question. Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom has like a Mafia setting so I was wondering if you guys think it's better in dubs or subs ? Subs definitely better, though that's just my opinion. |
funkotakuOct 7, 2012 12:40 PM
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| Geraniums aren't toxic T . T though I like that as the idea of Elens death better. |
| how do we even know if hes dead? they kind of cut it off with out explaining i though it was the cart driver O_o who was stalking them at the ending. why! do we have to think hes dead? maybe he was tired and passed out? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| thank you for posting this, that was fun xDDD |
| Thanks originanime. Your theory makes sense. They're both dead for sure. Such a sad end, yet fitting for a series that is entitled "Requiem for a Phantom" Good, I wish people who read VN's would get it through their heads that things can change from one medium to the other. |
FarabeufOct 17, 2012 12:11 PM
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
hazerddex said: how do we even know if hes dead? they kind of cut it off with out explaining i though it was the cart driver O_o who was stalking them at the ending. why! do we have to think hes dead? maybe he was tired and passed out? Yeah he's really tired. So tired that he's taking a dirt nap :p |
| I really liked this show, however I would like to know how Elen got out of the water when she was "killed" by Reiji. Your explanation of the ending was really good, Origin, because it helped me to get over the first shock ;) Well my opinion, after I rewatched the ending: Elen and Reiji found that place together. There are scenes where they are definately together and talking to each other, up to the point when he gets shot. I think Inferno found them (things have to be done...), shot Reiji. We don't see how Elen escaped, but she did. Then she gets back to that point, thinking about the time with Reiji. And she decides to live on for him, holding the memories. I don't think she killed herself. She failed to do so before and she evolved her mind up to that point. So my opinion is, that she lives on to fulfill Reijis dream: that she can live a happy life. The bullet shell could be the old one, from the shot that killed Reiji. And as others already said: Geranium can not kill you and even is used for medication ;). With this explantion...I am okay :D Great show! |
 |
Hyunckel said: Nice condensed explanations... Still doesn't explain how the fuck could Reiji dies by a mongol bullet whereas he danced with yakuza and mafia bullets through out all the anime meh. I wonder how are the endings in the Visual Novel. I should give it a go. even great assassins have their blind spots.. that's where assassins find their chance, when your on your lowest guard.. this just shows that he's still human and btw.. i really think origin's idea is close.. though Reiji's place of death differs from Elen, (Reiji's area somewhat looks like a cliff or close to a cliff) |
tounoyaboysNov 17, 2012 12:14 AM
| The ending was pretty obvious since the start of the anime, it's not even worth telling my interpretation of it. |
OriginANIME said: Its up to you if you want to read it or not. I just made this for people who are having trouble understanding the ending. No one is right, and no one is wrong in my opinion. Its all speculation. Here is a copy and paste of my blog entry explaining the ending. (my take on it with pictures, quotes, and evidence) Awesome explanations, thanks a lot :-). This anime is vying in my head for top spot. In the past, St. Luminous Mission High School was uncontested, but now I'm not so sure. They're very different types of animes, but I just can't get some of the scenes from Phantom out of my head. My favourite scene in the anime (actually, probably in any anime) is the scene starting at about 21:35, where a certain someone is revealed to definitely still be alive and well: I play the musical piece in that scene on a regular rotation these days. |
| The bullet casing is among the flowers, is it impossible it to have just been a murder suicide thing? I know that's morbid but I think that the way they avoided showing the shooter or the shooting exactly is slightly suspect and that fact that he didn't call out to warn her is also pretty odd. A large part of Ryuji's prowess in fighting was that he had excellent instincts and to whoever said that they would be hunted for the rest of their lives by Inferno, I would've thought that two of the strongest assassins in the world could've killed the man in charge. This isn't a particularly well written response but if I leave it 'til later I'll just end up leaving it. I don't think that Elen and Ryuji would've split up, they were practically living for each other. The part with Elen fading away after Ryuji was shot also makes me thing that she shot him and then ate the poisonous flowerpetal and died. I would've liked for them to have survived to be honest, I think that they could've had a decent life together and that they would've been able to escape Infero or destroy them if they had chosen to. I also wish they hadn't killed Cal, I really felt for her and I think that they could've worked things out if they'd made an effort to... Still, I enjoyed the series and I'm glad I saw it. |
| Hachikuji: Araragi-san, you don't look even the least bit apologetic. You should at least say something after touching a girl's delicate chest! Araragi: *Clueless look* Thanks? Bakemonogatari, Episode 5. |
| I was really enjoying the anime, the ending is the segment you should always execute well, unfortunately it wasn't. A prime example of a failure to execute a last second twist ending. No matter how I interpret the ending, considering any theory (which you've done a good job on) it was still lackluster and disregards everything else; a shame, I was excited to watch this after seeing Nitroplus made this, after they handled Chaos;head (the VN) so well. |
BeryllusFeb 12, 2013 10:22 PM
| This ending was really depressing, it was a huge twist at the very end, I came here immediately to see what others had to say, well what I can say I fell better, but true it was a bitter sweet realistic ending. |
 |
| Guys for the geranium debate here it is: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7740078_poisonous-geraniums.html Hum Elen was not a dog or a cat so yeah... |
   |
| I'm rather certain that Elen poisened herself with the petal, in not, it wouldn't have been shown. The death of Reiji wasn't that clear and it probably wasn't supposed to be either. But it's quite possible Inferno is behind it. Your explanation about 3 differen't scenes and 3 different times seems legal enough, but this won't change much in my oppinion. Either way, she will still poison herself in the end. I think this was a perfect ending! Each death was just so meaningfull! |
| This is amazing. Thank you! |
 |
| The gun shot may have been a "silent warning", (eg episode 20) saying I know where you are. Reij may be alive afterall. Right :O |
| all I have to say it was a great anime :) |
 |
vexium said: WOW! I'm shocked by the responses you guys have to this ending. Let me clear some things up: regardless if Ein lives or dies (seems pretty clear she's alive and Zwei is dead at the end, just going off what we see in the animation), Zwei DESERVED to die. It's surprising to see so many of you befuddled over the fact that Zwei died so promptly. I cannot be more concise: Zwei DESERVED to die. Hell, he even said repeatedly he wanted to die to atone for his sins. Listen, listen: Zwei did the following: - Shot and nearly killed Ein - Massacred countless people (including Stone's mother and child) in the name of Inferno, which he secretly hated - Massacred countless people in the name of Claudia, who he later ends up hating just as much as Inferno - Abandons Claudia, the person who grants him freedom and a chance at life away from Inferno (however deceptively), leaving her to die at the hands of Inferno - Abandons Lizzie, the person who keeps him sane during his time in Inferno and away from Ein - Abandons Cal (this is the big one, folks), who then becomes just like him, successfully fulfilling his worst nightmare - KILLS CAL BECAUSE HE CANT ESCAPE HIS LIFE OF KILLING TO SURVIVE - Slaughters the remaining wannabe Phantoms, who he knows are also innocent people that were tormented just like him ------------ As for a quick logical explanation as to why Zwei dies and Ein doesn't, it was clear ever since McGuire personally called upon Zwei to be Cal's mentor that Zwei was far more intertwined in the internal affairs of Inferno that Ein ever was. I would go so far as to make the claim that Ein was never revealed by Scythe Master as being alive to Inferno, and to that end, wise as he was, Scythe Master kept her a secret from everyone in Inferno after his return. Yes, Drei is a loudmouth, but she's also under Scythe's careful watch. Yes, Lizzie sees Ein, but she's also the only person from Inferno to see Ein again on-screen before immediately dying. It's clear from her conversation with Zwei towards the end that she doesn't plan on revealing all her reconnaissance to Inferno and that that has been the case for some time. So again, it makes perfect sense why McGuire would be looking to kill Zwei after Scythe fails to execute him and knows very well that someone killed Scythe. Zwei was a major traitor in McGuire's eyes to Inferno as the right-hand man of Claudia, whereas Ein was merely Scythe's puppet (and Scythe, again, was reintroduced to Inferno with praise). -------------- So go ahead and tell me Zwei didn't deserve to die, that Inferno didn't have every reason to find and kill him, that this ending wasn't entirely appropriate. Damn, to think I was thoroughly dissatisfied with the genre switch that took place in Part 3 and was only relieved by this apropos ending episode. Meanwhile, you folks are busy ranting about it! Ha! While I'm here chatting, I might as well mention that that transition to the high school setting was just pathetic. The switch-ups in the intro and ending sequences were devastatingly girlish and lost the beautifully haunting touch the original intro-outro bits had. Really, the only thing that made up for Part 3's pitiful high school melodramatic squabbling was the bitter finale and utter realization that Zwei simply DIDN'T DESERVE TO LIVE. HE NEEDED TO DIE. HE FUCKED UP BIG TIME - HE LET CAL BECOME THE MONSTER HE NEVER WANTED TO BE, AND HE DID IT BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID OF HIMSELF, EIN, AND HIS OWN ACTIONS. This ending could not have been better. Again, I just wish Part 3 had been a touch more graceful, mafia-oriented, and action-adventure-styled (I mean, come on, what happened to following Ein and Zwei through their daring escape through Inferno?) Overall, I give Phantom ~ Requiem of the Phantom the following score: 8/10 for pt. 1 (up until Ein/Zwei nearly die), 9/10 for pt. 2 (up until Cal is taken), and 6.5/10 for pt. 3, rounding up to an 8/10 overall. I really want to see this series remade into a live-action movie or TV series. It has a great plot, incredible characters, and exceptional thematic elements. The tragedy is that the animation here wasn't too unique and nor was the atmosphere or focus of Part 3, leaving a bland, high school immaturity that is eradicated by a properly poetic mafioso finish. I don't know, man... Even though you bring up some very valid points, a big part of me still wanted for Zwei and Ein to "live happily ever after". I actually didn't like Zwei in the first part of the series, but then his relationship with Cal in the second part made me really appreciate his character (he didn't want her to walk the same path as him, and he didn't know she had survived the explosion, otherwise he would have never abandoned her). Yes, he did kill a lot of people, but with the exception of Stone's wife and little kid (which I never forgave him for), they were all mafiosos and gangsters. And even though in your view Inferno had their reasons for wanting him dead, when did they actually act on moral and principles? Zwei was a traitor, but he was out of the picture and had all intentions to stay out. He held no importance to Inferno, so I really don't see any reason for them to bother so much in order to find and kill him. So, yeah, the ending did make sense, but even if it had ended the other way around, I think it would have been a fine and adequate conclusion to the series. |
| Honestly I think they both died. Though I don't know if they assassinated or just Reiji and Elen committed suicide. I think Elen died too because she looks like she died at the end. Someone brought up a point that the grass next to her neck was had a reddish hue. I hope she didn't kill Reiji because that would go against everything she said she lived for after met Reiji. If they both died, though shocking, I think it was their "faith" or "karma" because they knew they would have to face death one day for what they've done. I don't mean it in a spiritual way, but they knew there were consequences for their actions. It's not like they would be forgiven so easily, especially not by Inferno. It's just how things work, there was bound to some kind of reaction to their actions and it looks like they were able to accept it. I would of been happy if they both lived happily but that would be running away and rejecting their past and crimes which I think goes against this series' theme. The "oh they didn't exist at all after that they were shot and fell in the ocean" theories are funny because that would be completely inconsistent with the plot after that especially with Cal's role in the series. |
penguindrum264Jun 14, 2013 1:59 PM
 |
| I originally started watching this anime because it's categorized under the "thriller" genre, which I happen to be a big fan of. However, it never really felt like a thriller to me. Although I felt like it was a disappointment as a thriller, I ended up watching it to the very end for Reiji and Elen. This is the first time I actually cared about a relationship between two characters in a very, very long time. This gets a solid 9 from me. OriginANIME said: Its up to you if you want to read it or not. I just made this for people who are having trouble understanding the ending. No one is right, and no one is wrong in my opinion. Its all speculation. Here is a copy and paste of my blog entry explaining the ending. (my take on it with pictures, quotes, and evidence) I agree with nearly everything you said. The ending really confused me, but you made a whole lot of sense out of it with your post. Pretty much everything you said made sense, and I really believe that's what happened myself as well. I didn't even know those flowers contained a deadly poison until you said that! However, there's just one thing I must disagree with you on: OriginANIME said: This is what I was referring to by saying "Even Elen knew it wouldn't work out even though she wanted it to.". (the quote below) "Please go to hell first. I still want to stay with him for a little longer." - Elen (episode 26 right after she shot Scythe Master) I interpreted that in a completely different way. Elen said "Please go to hell first. I still want to stay with him for a little longer," however, the part that you should be focusing on is not "a little longer", but "go to hell first". She told Scythe Master to go to hell "first", followed by her saying she wants to stay with Reiji "a little longer". I don't see this as an implication that she felt she couldn't continue living a happy life with Reiji, rather, it implies that she believes she will go to hell too. That's why she tells him to go to hell "first", because she wasn't ready to die and did not want to throw away a future spent with Reiji. If you recall near the beginning of this arc, she was shown in the chapel praying, where she explicitly stated she was trying to atone for her sins. Reiji asked her who she was trying to seek forgiveness from, and she told him "To God directly, because I'll meet with him one day." I interpreted that as her feeling guilty of the countless murders she had committed, so she turned to religion in hopes that it would help her wash away all of her unwanted memories of serving Scythe Master, to help her enjoy living her new life with only good memories of her time spent with Reiji. After Cal showed up, their "dream" ended, and they were forced to give up the peaceful life that they worked so hard to obtain. After that series of events, she once again found herself killing people in order to protect Reiji, which revived and added to the old memories she was trying to forget. This culminated with her showdown against Scythe Master. She began the arc by saying she wanted to atone for her sins and seek forgiveness from God, but after the firefight, she said "go to to hell first", which implies that she believes she will go to hell. The reason she said that is because she realized that she would never truly be able to escape her past. This is the reason she said "go to hell first". drakere said: This is just a stupid addition and distasteful addition to the anime just to add a "shock" factor to the ending of the anime This never happens in the VN. Rest assured, they both live happily live ever after. Seriously, Zwei, an infamous assassin and survived impossible life and death situations and who can dodge bullets like dodging rain in a storm, is somehow found in the middle of who knows, Mongolia and caught off guard? Yeah right. Just a extremely bad way to shock viewers. Nothing more, nothing less. Oh man... if that's true, I have to read the VN. |
| Some parts of this post may be exaggerated. |
| This thread brings me nostalgia. |
 |
| good anime :D |
| Cty Best mid |
| loved thank you very much! helped me a bunch lol! |
| Like robots? Then watch getter robot :D |
| This thread was awesome in so many levels. Even though those are all speculations, OriginANIME, you did an excellent job. I enjoyed this anime quite a bit, I even watched it all in one day. I just couldn't stop. Ending was like a ice cold water on hot steel for me. 22nd minute in 26th episode was so fu*ked up that it made me wanna kill the one who put that scene there. But, after reading all of this, I relaxed and now I can let it go a bit. Thanks. |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
| Thank you SO MUCH for the explanation. |
Live, Laugh, Love.  |
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