Shigurui Chapter 84 Discussion

What did you think of this chapter?

DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this chapter. If you want to discuss future events, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to read/download this chapter or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Manga Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.

Oct 14, 2022 9:00 PM

#51

njonam

Offline

Oct 2022

Just finished the series and I had to share my thoughts.

1. Most controversial opinion first. I feel like there's really no way to do gore and nudity tastefully. If you enjoy seeing it, that's one thing, but it's really hard to make it seem "tasteful" to someone who doesn't, especially when nearly every panel has characters randomly being shown naked and nearly every sexual act is portrayed in full. What I'm saying is that most of the nudity was unnecessary to tell the story, but then again, most nudity in fiction is.

2. I agree that it was a beautifully told story and had great art. It makes me very glad that the world is no longer like it was back then. The additional characters served no purpose which made the ending feel abrupt. Are we sure the author wasn't forced to end it in a hurry?

3. I really wanted Fujiki to defeat Irako, as characters like him really annoy me in fiction. The type where everyone seems unable to resist his beauty and charm, all women want to be his eternal sex toys and his only enemy is his own hubris. You can say that both of them became monsters and are flawed in their own way, but I can't ignore that Irako actively ruined lives wherever he went, and things in Fujiki's life began to get worse as soon Irako arrived. One of these guys was arrogant, ambitious, greedy, treacherous, lecherous, narcissistic and lacked respect for anyone but also very charming, good looking and talented. The other was also talented, but also abrasive, determined, inflexible and loyal to a fault (a puppet you could say. I struggle to think of as many negative traits for Fujiki as I can for Irako. Perhaps I'm biased but it seems very clear to me that Irako is a far worse person). I really don't think they're both equally deserving of sympathy. Irako was a shit person from the beginning and knew it (look how he revelled in the fact that he was stealing both Mie and Kogan-ryuu from Fujiki, and the thrill he seemed to get from sleeping with Iku and other loved ones of high ranking samurai), whereas Fujiki became a monster due to his desire for revenge, caused by the actions of Irako and even then was far more limited in the number of people whose lives he actively ruined.

4. It makes total sense to me that there was almost no time spent on the tournament as the whole point of the manga was to talk about the lead up to this one historical particular fight that was so looked down upon. In fact I was actually worried that the final panel of the series would be the two warriors charging forward and then "END", because as much as I really wanted to see who would win, that would really fit the manga. To go ahead and have a full tournament arc would shit on the entire story imo.

5. Mie was very selfish and showed very little understanding throughout the story, and especially at the end. Granted she was very young and was traumatized enough that she wasn't all there by the time her father died, but the same can be said of every other major character so she stands out. I think her inconsistent feelings and motivations were probably due to some writing gaffs, but trauma and mental instability are easily acceptable explanations as well.
I think she did love Irako till the end, but she killed herself because of the whole puppet thing, which again, selfish. If revenge was the only thing sustaining her, she would've tried to kill him when he brought the monkey head for Fujiki. I think she believed Fujiki had broken free from the strings of her father and was willing to marry him, at least until he killed Irako.

6. And last but not least:
I'm surprised everyone thinks the girl the frogman is obsessed with has an actual dick. To me, as soon as I saw it, it looked like she had a really big clit that pops out when she's aroused or stimulated. I thought the whole sheathing imagery and the shape of it's silhouette were dead giveaways for that. Last I checked, if you have a dick you have a dick, it doesn't stay hidden (even from the owner no less) come out of a hole in the crotch. It'll be hanging around and would make itself known well before Chika would ever think of seducing that first guy.
Of course people in samurai-era Japan would have no way to describe it aside from it looking sort of like a dick and being located where dicks usually are. Hence everyone saying shit like "she's like a man" and she herself thinking it's a dick.

May 16, 2023 9:47 AM

#52

TheBiscuitMan

Offline

Feb 2018

To be honest, Mie's suicide does not make any sense. Fujiki becoming the puppet is just a rubbish reason. Firstly, Fujiki was commanded by the lords to participate in the tournament. So, he's been a puppet of following instructions to begin with. Why didn't she kill herself then?

What I understood is; Mei was just a manipulator herself as well. She does not like her man to be a puppet of others but a servant of her own command only. This was mentioned multiple times in the manga. Even Iku said that "Fujiki was not the one tried to kill me but Mei did. She is controlling him".

It has been established multiple times that Mei, answering and deciding for Fujiki while Fujiki remained silent. Even when Fujiki tried to intimate with Mei; the only thing she muttered was "Kill Him". Fujiki's emotion carried no value to her.

Now, there could be a lot of things this "Kill Him" could mean. Maybe that statement itself had a double meaning and she always meant Irako to be the one to kill Fujiki and that's why a non-subjective "Kill Him". Maybe she always used it in a cursing manner because she loved Irako more than anything. Even when Irako was killing Mei's father Kogan; she was smiling, laughing; dressing up like a prostitute (mentioned in the manga). She just fainted after seeing Kogan's dead body or she was acting it out (while Fujiki was present). She even visioned Fujiki getting killed (and lied about it).

If you remember correctly, During the first vengeance battle between Fujiki and Irako, Mei fainted when Irako was in danger or when it seemed like Irako was about to loose his head; not when Fujiki getting his arse whooped.

The last thing I wanted to say is; people are overcomplicating this manga but the story is just a linear hot mess. What I think is, Irako; son of a whore and Fujiki; husband (fiancé) of a toxic manipulative woman, never understood "woman" completely. Irako saw woman as a stepping stone to his career and Fujiki saw woman as a prized trophy and both getting manipulated to their demise at the end. It was the woman who were having their demands filled by using the men around them.

Aug 15, 2023 2:46 AM

#53

Baranka02

Offline

Apr 2022

It acctually is the only reason why she killed herself. We see her being thrilled and crying hapy tears when Fujiki wins, but once when he's cutting Irako's head we see panels of Fujiki holding Mie's arm when she was about to be raped by Irako. So yes, he followed another order like a pupped and she said herself she hates puppets. She loves Fujiki but she cannot be married to a puppet. And the whole Fujiki being commanded to participate was just an excuse to kill Irako. They both wanted him dead and participating in a match was a good reason for killing him.

It has been established multiple times that Mei, answering and deciding for Fujiki while Fujiki remained silent.

It was also said that Fujiki was always man of few words even during childhood he was believed to be "retarded" because of that. And her speaking insead of him is a simple explanation: she was the Kogan's daughter while he was only her fiance.

Even when Irako was killing Mei's father Kogan; she was smiling, laughing; dressing up like a prostitute (mentioned in the manga). She just fainted after seeing Kogan's dead body or she was acting it out (while Fujiki was present).

She was wearing a wedding gown. Brides are supposed to be happy on their wedding day and mind you she was in her mad state at that time believeing Irako came for her to wed her on that day. She fainted once she saw her fathers dead, who wouldn't faint?

She even visioned Fujiki getting killed (and lied about it).

Why would she tell him the truth tho? Before the match to make him uneasy and god forbid him actually getting killed? That way she wouldn't get the revenge she craved.

If you remember correctly, During the first vengeance battle between Fujiki and Irako, Mei fainted when Irako was in danger or when it seemed like Irako was about to loose his head; not when Fujiki getting his arse whooped.

She fainted right after Fujiki got his arm cut off and no one, not even Fujiki, knew about that yet.

The last thing I wanted to say is; people are overcomplicating this manga but the story is just a linear hot mess. What I think is, Irako; son of a whore and Fujiki; husband (fiancé) of a toxic manipulative woman, never understood "woman" completely. Irako saw woman as a stepping stone to his career and Fujiki saw woman as a prized trophy and both getting manipulated to their demise at the end. It was the woman who were having their demands filled by using the men around them.

While I agree that women for Fujiki were prizes and for Irako only an accesory in which he can put whatever part of the body he wanted, I don't agree that Mie was manipulating Fujiki, she was fueling his hatred and desire for vengance. And Irako was never manipulated by any women, he was the one manipulating them. Sleeping with Iku and making her his personal attendand after he went blind (she even wiped his ass like he couldn't do that himself), cheating on both Iku and Mie when he was betrothed to her, even lying to Mie about his adultery.

Baranka02Aug 15, 2023 2:52 AM

Aug 15, 2023 3:05 AM

#54

Baranka02

Offline

Apr 2022

It's not typical manga when you get the ansewers right when you needed, you get answers when you dig a little. I haven't been invested in any manga like that before. Tho Irako died a little too soon for my liking, comparing to their prevoius match, I was sweating like hell and praying for Irako to finally die. As it turns out, even if he would won, they would kill him anyway but having Fujiki kill him was the best option.

It's a shame Mie killed herself, seeing her and Fujiki's cute innocent interactions made me really root for them to get marry and be happy. But it is what it is, I'm glad Fujiki survived tho.

I actually liked fillers like the toad guy and super strong girl and I wish we could get a "a few years later" chapter to see how all they've been doing.
I think Shigurui dethroned Berserk as my favorite manga and I'm sure I'm gonna go back to it some time. Maybe I'll try to translate it to my language someday.

Aug 29, 2023 5:17 PM

#55

itstwentyfifteen

Offline

Jan 2013

1855

Baranka02 said:
It's a shame Mie killed herself, seeing her and Fujiki's cute innocent interactions made me really root for them to get marry and be happy. But it is what it is, I'm glad Fujiki survived tho.

I actually liked fillers like the toad guy and super strong girl and I wish we could get a "a few years later" chapter to see how all they've been doing.
I think Shigurui dethroned Berserk as my favorite manga and I'm sure I'm gonna go back to it some time. Maybe I'll try to translate it to my language someday.

Just finished this manga myself imo Shigurui isnt close to Berserk but I enjoyed both. Berserk has essentially all the fixtures of an epic quest story, characters, plot, history etc etc. Most of Shigurui's characters in comparison seem shallow, like Mie says, theyre just puppets. The negatives of Bushido are under a spotlight and there are no checks no other competing philosophy even though Seigen is the villain all of his actions are to be expected. That may be intentional but there isn't even a journey, the whole series takes place in only a handful of locations, most characters go to their death quietly. However, I've always liked things like this, a slightly enhanced reality in a quasi-realistic, historic setting, and time but its no epic.

Looks like there is a lot of optimists in this thread. I am more under the impression that all the samurai gathered before the lord that day are dead, that the spear guy, Fujiki, Irako, and one unknown (if it was narrowed down to semi finalists) were the survivors that is why they ran home muddy (bloody). The Spear guy at that point completely throws out the grudge from his pupil and helps Fujiki more but hopefully I'm wrong. There are other times in this series when things were glossed over.

See All Discussions

» Gannosuke and Chika (possible Spoilers in thread) kushmonatl - Jan 16, 2022	3	by Gekkouta »» Apr 15, 9:21 PM
Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 53 Discussion alpir - Jul 31, 2013	2	by Gros »» Feb 25, 2023 4:06 AM
» Ending RAHUL-haque - Jun 19, 2021	4	by Nishinga »» Feb 24, 2023 7:38 PM
Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 47 Discussion Gros - Feb 24, 2023	0	by Gros »» Feb 24, 2023 2:56 AM
Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 45 Discussion alpir - Jul 30, 2013	4	by iDensity »» Sep 9, 2022 4:39 PM

Shigurui Chapter 84 Discussion

More topics from this board

» Gannosuke and Chika (possible Spoilers in thread)

Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 53 Discussion

» Ending

Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 47 Discussion

Poll: » Shigurui Chapter 45 Discussion

MoreTop Anime

MoreTop Airing Anime

MoreMost Popular Characters