| Seems like we've got a thread for EP5 and EP7, but not one for EP6. I think the first thing which stands out to me about EP6 is the continued confusion of author. Is the story a creation of Lord BATTLER as an answer to Beatrice? Is it a story written by the author Tohya as a sign-post to others seeking the truth? Is it Ryukishi's creation for us, his readers? Perhaps they are nested like matryoshka dolls: Ryukishi has written a story about Tohya writing a story about Battler writing a story for Beatrice's game. In any case, I think the intended meaning behind this confusion is to highlight the fact that it does not really matter who wrote the story, nor whether or not it is a true story - that is, true in any of the sub-universes of Umineko, or true in our own universe. What the story communicates is truths which can be applied to each universe, regardless of the actual "facts". Similarly, Beatrice's Game is one that can be played by each participant, including us. In fact, I think we are intended to play the game: "Think, child of man. ......Thinking is not only a job for the characters within the tale. ......As a Reader, you too have the right to enjoy thinking." Ryukishi almost resurrects the corpse of authorial intent by cleverly breaking the 4th wall. But enough of this meta-meta-meta train of thought. On to the most important new character this episode: Featherine. She appears as some sort of deity - the most powerful being we have seen thus far. Interestingly, she also seems to be the most stricken with sickness of boredom, which continues the idea that as one grows more powerful, one becomes more susceptible to this "illness". I could spend an entire post discussing this idea, but I will leave it alone for now. As a divine observer and the Goddess of Theatergoing, Featherine seems to be something of a metaphor for us, the audience - similar to how Bern and Lambda are likewise metaphors for the readers of Umineko. However, they represent very different kinds of readers... whereas Bern and Lambda are the people who read Umineko merely for entertainment (taking wicked pleasure in the various gruesome murders, living for any kind of plot twist to stave off boredom a little longer), Featherine represents a more benevolent, creative force. She is the kind of person who has thought deeply about the meaning of Umineko, solved it, and has transcended to the point of being able to create new stories as an "Endless Witch". I think she might represent Ryukishi himself, to some degree. Now perhaps on to the actual content? As far as solving the mystery itself goes, it seems that Shannon = Kanon has been absolutely confirmed, so congratulations to those who figured that out! Should be interesting to go back and play the earlier episodes with this tidbit in mind; might lead to some more answers. I don't feel like there was much character development for any of the people on the island - unless you count Erika, and even then, her back story was extremely vague. Not that much character development is necessary at this point. All in all, a very good episode. I don't mind calling it one of my favorites, although I think I prefer EP5 still. |
| What bothers me the most is: Who was the culprit? Erika claimed that she killed those 5 victims, but since she introduced herself as the detective later, this is forbidden due Knox's rules. Also, she doesn't exist ;P So we have the question "Who is Erkia?" since it was stated in red that three persons (Erika, Kanon, Battler) entered the room. Sadly, I've got no answers :( All in all I liked Episode 6. It was not as great as Episode 5 and lacked Ronove, but still a <Good> Episode. |
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| I don't think that detective proclamation counts as applying to the entire episode. It's no different than Beatrice saying "I am the Golden Witch, Beatrice." in the meta world - which would technically end the game if it were true. So we have the question "Who is Erkia?" since it was stated in red that three persons (Erika, Kanon, Battler) entered the room. Sadly, I've got no answers :( Why can't she exist? I'm pretty sure the trick to Battler's closed room is something like this:Shannon leaves the next room over through the window. She saves Battler as her "Kanon" persona. Then she becomes her Shannon persona and hides under the bed. A cheap trick that wouldn't be allowed in mystery novels indeed. :P Objection, I'm pretty sure Kyrie had some character development during this episode. Anything we didn't already know from her fight with Envy in EP3? |
naikouJul 18, 2010 10:15 AM
| I think George had a bit of character development. I'd say Amakusa did too, but I think that was more of him actually getting a useful role (If speculation is true, anyway) then development. Bern and Lambda had some as well, but nothing major. Also, Somebody please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that Erika was confessing to Dlanor when she started running off everything her old boyfriend said. Either way, I'm now shipping Erika/Dlanor... |
naikou said: I think the first thing which stands out to me about EP6 is the continued confusion of author. Is the story a creation of Lord BATTLER as an answer to Beatrice? Is it a story written by the author Tohya as a sign-post to others seeking the truth? Is it Ryukishi's creation for us, his readers? Perhaps they are nested like matryoshka dolls: Ryukishi has written a story about Tohya writing a story about Battler writing a story for Beatrice's game. In any case, I think the intended meaning behind this confusion is to highlight the fact that it does not really matter who wrote the story, nor whether or not it is a true story - that is, true in any of the sub-universes of Umineko, or true in our own universe. What the story communicates is truths which can be applied to each universe, regardless of the actual "facts". I agree that the meta-layering is the most intriguing part of EP6; as the mysteries about what really happened on Rokkenjima in October 1986 draw towards resolution, suddenly we have this new complication thrust in front of us. I don't think Ryukishi doesn't care who really wrote the story, though. Look at the announcement of EP7: "Due to the interference of bystanders, both the story and its points of view become ever more complex. When is reality? What is illusion? Which is production? By whose will is this story truly being repeated?" Since he prominently raises these questions, I believe he intends to give us an answer. I can't imagine what that answer is right now, but I suspect that it could end up being the biggest twist of EP7. naikou said: Featherine represents a more benevolent, creative force. Still a monster, though! naikou said: Now perhaps on to the actual content? As far as solving the mystery itself goes, it seems that Shannon = Kanon has been absolutely confirmed, so congratulations to those who figured that out! Should be interesting to go back and play the earlier episodes with this tidbit in mind; might lead to some more answers. Now that Shkanon's been confirmed, a lot of things from EP1-4 fall into place. For instance, it explains why Kanon was so heavily camouflaged when he visited Jessica's school in EP2; it was riskier for Shannon to appear in the "Kanon" persona in the outside world than Rokkenjima, where she at least had help from Genji. It still raises a number of other questions: What was "Shannon's" corpse in the first twilight of EP1? What was going on in the first twilight of EP3? Why didn't Erika seem to catch on to anything in EP5? How the heck did Shannon manage to pull off this illusion (and so many costume changes!) in front of the entire family for so long? naikou said: I don't feel like there was much character development for any of the people on the island. I disagree. There was considerable character development for George, some for Eva, Kyrie, and Rosa, and a little for Jessica and Shannon/Kanon. Nothing to rival the incredible attention Natsuhi received in EP5, of course. naikou said: Anything we didn't already know from her fight with Envy in EP3? Kyrie gave a much more detailed description of her relationship with Rudolf - we didn't know the exact circumstances of how she and Asumu became important to him, and that story gave further insight into Kyrie's (and Asumu's) character. Also, it clarified for me that Rudolf was already married when Kyrie and Asumu gave birth. Featherine said: Also, Somebody please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that Erika was confessing to Dlanor when she started running off everything her old boyfriend said. Either way, I'm now shipping Erika/Dlanor... Ah, ha, I thought that too. "So she's that kind of girl... oh wait, false alarm." |
HosannaExcelsis said: I actually wrote that before Featherine's big display during the Witches' Tea Party. naikou said: Featherine represents a more benevolent, creative force. Still a monster, though! I am not entirely convinced that she is truly a monster, though. Mostly because I think Bern is the least trustworthy person in the entire series. HosannaExcelsis said: That's true. That scene served to convince me more that Kyrie's and Asumu's children were switched at birth (Asumu's being the one that really died), and that Rudolf knows. I think that's why Rudolf is so afraid for his life in EP1 - he intends on telling Kyrie the truth about Battler, and she makes it pretty clear that those 8 years she spent without Rudolf were a literal hell. I know I'd be afraid of Kyrie if I had to tell her that.Kyrie gave a much more detailed description of her relationship with Rudolf - we didn't know the exact circumstances of how she and Asumu became important to him, and that story gave further insight into Kyrie's (and Asumu's) character. Also, it clarified for me that Rudolf was already married when Kyrie and Asumu gave birth. HosannaExcelsis said: Third'ed. Actually I'm not sure that pairing is a complete lie at all...Featherine said: Also, Somebody please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that Erika was confessing to Dlanor when she started running off everything her old boyfriend said. Either way, I'm now shipping Erika/Dlanor... Ah, ha, I thought that too. "So she's that kind of girl... oh wait, false alarm." |
naikou said: That's true. That scene served to convince me more that Kyrie's and Asumu's children were switched at birth (Asumu's being the one that really died), and that Rudolf knows. I think that's why Rudolf is so afraid for his life in EP1 - he intends on telling Kyrie the truth about Battler, and she makes it pretty clear that those 8 years she spent without Rudolf were a literal hell. Even more twisted: Asumu's Battler was given to Natsuhi (the man from 19 years ago) and is in fact Jessica. I would take my hat off to Ryukishi if he pulls out something like that. |
naikou said: I am not entirely convinced that she is truly a monster, though. Mostly because I think Bern is the least trustworthy person in the entire series. Bern may be that, but I'm not about to trust Featherine either. She's the one giving Bern the position of Game Master, after all. naikou said: That's true. That scene served to convince me more that Kyrie's and Asumu's children were switched at birth (Asumu's being the one that really died), and that Rudolf knows. I think that's why Rudolf is so afraid for his life in EP1 - he intends on telling Kyrie the truth about Battler, and she makes it pretty clear that those 8 years she spent without Rudolf were a literal hell. I know I'd be afraid of Kyrie if I had to tell her that. Yes, that's been my belief since EP4; if Battler isn't Asumu's son, he's obviously Kyrie's. dioptase said: Even more twisted: Asumu's Battler was given to Natsuhi (the man from 19 years ago) and is in fact Jessica. I would take my hat off to Ryukishi if he pulls out something like that. I can believe that Asumu's Battler is the man from 19 years ago, but Jessica? Natsuhi had been unable to give birth before she was given the adopted baby to look after, and afterwards she definitely gave birth to someone - it's not possible that another switch took place, this time between a newborn and someone already at least a year old. It's more likely to be Shkanon. naikou said: Third'ed. Actually I'm not sure that pairing is a complete lie at all... Not like we'll get any more info; I imagine that Erika is out for the rest of the series. |
HosannaExcelsis said: I can believe that Asumu's Battler is the man from 19 years ago, but Jessica? Natsuhi had been unable to give birth before she was given the adopted baby to look after, and afterwards she definitely gave birth to someone - it's not possible that another switch took place, this time between a newborn and someone already at least a year old. It's more likely to be Shkanon. It's the most likely solution indeed. Still, what exactly happened 19 years ago is a huge can of worms. Rosa witnessing Beatrice's death, Natsuhi's great parenting plus the whole shenanigan between Rudolf, Asumu and Kyrie. If Shannon is really Rudolf's daughter, then the whole BattlerxBeatrice is...disturbing to say the least. |
| But wait. If Asumu had the still birth, and her baby was swapped with Kyrie's, how could Asumu's Battler be the man from 19 years ago? If one of the babies is dead, how can one be Battler and one be elsewhere? |
| I don't think Jessica being Asumu's baby is a viable theory, dioptase is just trying to tie all of the missing children problems together. I hope the man from 19 years ago is also Maria's father. |
naikou said: I hope the man from 19 years ago is also Maria's father. Wouldn't that mean he was 10 when Maria was born? |
| Rosa likes em young. |
naikou said: I don't think Jessica being Asumu's baby is a viable theory, dioptase is just trying to tie all of the missing children problems together. I hope the man from 19 years ago is also Maria's father. Exactly. Let’s sum up what we know and what we can deduce from it. EP4 and earlier: Both Battler and Jessica are 18; Shannon is said to be 16. Battler mentions the fact that Shannon used to be a big sister figure back in the days. Rudolf (what a pimp) impregnated both Kyrie and Asumu 19 years before the Rokkenjima massacre. Both had a child, and Kyrie’s baby supposedly died. However, the idea is destroyed by the red text. My name is Ushiromiya Battler It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that Ushiromiya Battler was born You are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son The Battler we know is Kyrie’s son. That’s pretty much a given at this point. Then what happened to Asumu’s baby? Plus we have Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son. This red text is open to interpretation; Asumu’s Battler could be female. Is Asumu's Battler alive or dead? EP5: Natsuhi has trouble to conceive for 10 years. Kinzo entrusted her a baby, the “man from 19 years ago”, whose gender is never specified. Then a wild cliff appeared, it was super effective and the baby apparently died. By miracle, Natsuhi became pregnant soon after and had Jessica. Natsuhi is threatened by phone during EP5, but she isn’t able to tell if the caller is male or female. EP6: Near the end, there’s this quote “19 years old, is the age of the territory lord” (Not 100% accurate quote but the idea is here). We have several possibilities: - Asumu’s Battler was a stillbirth. The baby from 19 years ago was totally unrelated, and Natsuhi killed him/her. - Asumu’s Battler survived, was given to Natsuhi who killed him/her. Kyrie has uncovered everything and the phone calls are bullshit in order to make Natsuhi break. - Asumu’s Battler died. The baby from 19 years ago survived and tries to frame Natsuhi. It would make him the mysterious person X, so we can discard this one easily. - Asumu’s Battler is alive and is “the man from 19 years ago” who survived the fall. [if the fall really happened at all, Natsuhi is clearly delusional] Now it gets interesting. Who could be the other Battler? Only Jessica or Shannon can fit. It would explain how the caller knows which Natsuhi's favourite season is |
dioptase said: Now it gets interesting. Who could be the other Battler? Only Jessica or Shannon can fit. It would explain how the caller knows which Natsuhi's favourite season is Actually, not even Jessica could fit. We have Natsuhi's statement I never told anyone except Shannon that I like Fall, which means that not even her family knew. What I'm wondering is, if the baby from 19 years ago did by some miracle survive, how did he/she come to know what Natsuhi did? Who knew besides Natushi, Krauss, Kinzo, and the servant who supposedly died along with the baby? I guess if the baby survived the servant could have survived too. |
| Ah, I forgot that red. Thanks. Well, it could also be a trick: hide 4 cards with all the seasons and give the location of the appropriate card depending on the response. Anyway, there's also this screenshot from EP5: |
| Natsuhi only told Shannon that she likes Fall, but we don't know if Shannon has loose lips and told others. |
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Yopee said: Natsuhi only told Shannon that she likes Fall, but we don't know if Shannon has loose lips and told others. True, and it could be a simple parlor trick as well (though that would require cooperation from at least one of the servants). But since Ryukishi went to the trouble of putting this random expository sentence in red, I have to believe it's a real clue and not just a pointless statement. |
| Ok, I just finished the game, and I have a ton of questions that I have been writing down since I started...so here they are. QUESTIONS: -Before Erika became Bernkastel's peice, was she a normal girl in the human world? -After all, humans are not allowed to use ------------. What is the blank? -Are the George and Jessica that killed Kyrie and Eva separate than the pieces on the gameboard? Are they meta world versions of themselves? -Ever since EP2 I have been thinking this. If this is a game to decide wether or not magic is real, doesn't the metaworld itself prove that magic does exist? Or is the game only to decide that the murders have been done by magic? And if so, why does Battler care about the murders not being magic but magic existing in general? -When Jessica is attacking Kyrie, why do her eyes turn grey? -Why can Sakutarou call "diplomatic immunity"? -What is the "truth" Rudolf wanted to tell Battler and Kyrie? -After the bodies are discovered, in the character section, why are they only half shaded? Is it because Erika doesn't have detective's authority, and thus can't be completely sure they are dead? -Who is Battler's mother? -Erika said she re-killed all of the corpses, and that they were all alive. Doesn't that mean that everyone in the love trial failed the first trial? They didn't successfully kill the pieces on the game board, right? -Was the hell Lambda and Bern were in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni? Or are only their appearances homages to the series, but their pasts have nothing to do with it? -How can Erika say she was the 18th person in red, but Beatrice and Battler can say that with her there are only 17 in red? How can both of them say it in red? -Since Beato and Battler said that even with Erika there are 17 people, does that mean that there are only 16 people on Rokkenjima in the first four games? -Can someone explain the 19 thing? What do they mean by it taking 19 years to make the tale, and the true age of the territory lord being 19? Is it Battler? Beatrice...? -During Amakusa's phonecall, Okonogi says that the Sumaderas are searching for Ange. Does that mean that she didn't really kill them in EP4? Or did everything Ange did in this EP take place before her going to Niijima in EP4? -So is Amakusa planning to let the the Sumadara's men kill Ange, then kill them? Did Ange really die in EP4 both on the game board and in real life? -When was Bern Featherine's miko? Does that have something to do with Higurashi too? -Since Bern is scared of Featherine, does that mean that Featherine is actually a more cruel witch than Bern? -Bern said she failed miserably in Beatrice's game. But I don't really understand that. Wasn't she originally helping Battler? Why does she care if he ended up winning? -Does Featherine really eat cats? Or was that just a metaphor or something? -What is Bernkastel's condition to be the reader? -What was the "fragile truth" that Erika lived by, according to Dlanor? -So is the whole point of the 7th game to figure out all of the answers of the previous games? -Will BATTLER and Beatrice know about the game playing, or will Bern only be using the piece versions of them? Why can't Battler be the Game Master anymore? -What gives Featherine the authority to have another game? -Erika is dead right? Will we not see her again? -What is the Rokkenjima Explosion? |
Gar_LoganJul 25, 2010 4:04 PM
GarLogan78 said: -Before Erika became Bernkastel's peice, was she a normal girl in the human world? I'd assume so, since she was the detective in EP5, I'm sure she'd have to be human. GarLogan78 said: -Are the George and Jessica that killed Kyrie and Eva separate than the pieces on the gameboard? Are they meta world versions of themselves? Yes, they were meta versions of themselves, but not on the level of BATTLER and Beato. GarLogan78 said: -When Jessica is attacking Kyrie, why do her eyes turn grey? Higurashi eyes. There's no real meaning behind it, other than to look yandere. GarLogan78 said: -What is the "truth" Rudolf wanted to tell Battler and Kyrie? Probably that Kyrie is Battler's mother. But that's just speculation. GarLogan78 said: -After the bodies are discovered, in the character section, why are they only half shaded? Is it because Erika doesn't have detective's authority, and thus can't be completely sure they are dead? Yup. And then when kills them they're certainly dead. GarLogan78 said: -Who is Battler's mother? Either Kyrie, or Rudolf's more a pimp then we thought. GarLogan78 said: -Erika said she re-killed all of the corpses, and that they were all alive. Doesn't that mean that everyone in the love trial failed the first trial? They didn't successfully kill the pieces on the game board, right? The love trial is like the magic scenes that Beato used to show Battler. It's just the witches side of things. GarLogan78 said: -Was the hell Lambda and Bern were in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni? Or are only their appearances homages to the series, but their pasts have nothing to do with it? Bern's probably was, but Lambda's diary hints that she was already a witch when Takano made her wish. GarLogan78 said: -Since Beato and Battler said that even with Erika there are 17 people, does that mean that there are only 16 people on Rokkenjima in the first four games? Shkanon strikes again. GarLogan78 said: -Can someone explain the 19 thing? What do they mean by it taking 19 years to make the tale, and the true age of the territory lord being 19? Is it Battler? Beatrice...? The man from 19 years ago from EP5. It's probably Battler, who's EP6's territory lord. GarLogan78 said: -During Amakusa's phonecall, Okonogi says that the Sumaderas are searching for Ange. Does that mean that she didn't really kill them in EP4? Or did everything Ange did in this EP take place before her going to Niijima in EP4? It takes place before Ange got to Nijima. GarLogan78 said: -So is Amakusa planning to let the the Sumadara's men kill Ange, then kill them? Did Ange really die in EP4 both on the game board and in real life? Her fate is unknown, but it's implied that Okonogi paid Amakusa killed her. He probably killed the Sumedara guys too, so Okonogi could get the Ushiromiya fortune. GarLogan78 said: -Since Bern is scared of Featherine, does that mean that Featherine is actually a more cruel witch than Bern? She was probably the one who put Bern through her hell. GarLogan78 said: -Bern said she failed miserably in Beatrice's game. But I don't really understand that. Wasn't she originally helping Battler? Why does she care if he ended up winning? She wanted the ending to be as brutal as possible, and since Battler made it a happy ending, she got pissed. GarLogan78 said: -What gives Featherine the authority to have another game? She's a higher being than Bern and Lambda, who started the game. GarLogan78 said: -Erika is dead right? Will we not see her again? Right, she lost, so she was thrown into the worst kakera. GarLogan78 said: -What is the Rokkenjima Explosion? A bomb. It's also the answer to Beato's last riddle. I can't guarantee that all these are 100% correct, but I tried ^^ |
| Thanks Featherine :) That helped a lot! |
| Hey now, the point of Umineko is to think for yourself, right? If you go digging up too many answers you'll spoil the experience. :P |
| Sorry XD |
GarLogan78 said: -What was the "fragile truth" that Erika lived by, according to Dlanor? Erika never reached Rokkenjima's shore. Not alive at least. GarLogan78 said: -So is the whole point of the 7th game to figure out all of the answers of the previous games? Featherine wants the truth. Do you want harsh answers? You will have them in a few weeks now. |
| Finally Erika is killed! I hated her so much! Especially when she claimed that she was the one who killed the other 5 people. If you see it the mystery way I would belief her(she's deffinetly capable of killing those 5). This proved:She's a monster and I hated her for being this cruel...even Beato isnt this evil...hell not even Eva-Beatrice(BTW...loved her in episode 6 ^^ at least finally seeing Eva-Beatrice back..we need more of her^^). I still miss some hints towards the man from 19 years ago..it MUST be Battler. Beato herself said in red that Asumu isnt her real mother...could be..could be^^ but still I wished for more hints! I can easily say in that point I agree with (I think Erika said it) Erika saying the whole love stuff is just annoying(or something like that^^). Ob btw Featherine was pretty awesome. Probably evil but for now ok. Now we need episode 7 ^^ I think I saw one portrait with Jessica and Kanon..not sure but..meh I want Eva-Beatrice again^^ |
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| ^I always thought that since Erika was an intellectual rapist, it was more that she would do anything she could to win a victory for the human side. Also, since Bernkastel is threatening to throw her into the worst fragment if she loses, I cant understand why she would do everything possible to gather evidence or confirm murders to help her standing in the game. Plus, since Erika understands that everyone on the game board is just a piece, she probably doesn't care much about killing them. If needed, they could just be revived again for the next game. I personally felt that EVA-Beatrice was more evil than Erika. I saw it as Erika doing anything she could to win against BATTLER and not be punished by Bernkastel, where as EVA-Beatrice thought it was fun to screw with people's lives and revive and kill them over and over again in increasingly cruel or messed up ways. |
| EP6 was disappointing. It was overall entertaining, but EP5 was oh so much better. What I disliked about EP6: - Lack of Lambda and Bern - Lack of Dlanor and her raep faces. But Dlanor with her glasses standing against a pillar at the wedding ceremony... GOD I NEED TO SEE THAT ANIMATED. - Thought Battler would've changed 'cause he turned into the game master. But he was as derp as always. - Ending fight wasn't that epic. I did like Beato saying ''Kanon isn't in the guest room'' in red. That was totally unexpected. I wonder how he escaped though... It's supposed to be THE paafekuto closed room. - The ???? wasn't anything special. The ending wasn't great either. I mean, it was cool and all, but it was nothing compared to EP4 and EP5's ending. - WHAT'S. WITH. ALL. THE. LOVE. SUBPLOTS. God, they were uninteresting and boring. They didn't have ANYTHING to do with the actual plot. They're like the magic battle from EP3, but that was actually entertaining. The love trials and the stupid conversations with the demons were tedious and long-winded. They weren't entertaining at all. Had the urge to use the CTRL button. - Ange was fucking annoying. She just popped up in every crucial scene saying ''JEEZ FEATHERINE, I NO GET DIS. EXPLAIN TO MEH.'' And then Featherine'd be like ''I WON'T TELL Y ANYTHING! READ MOAR!'' Their convos were boring too. Used to CTRL through em. Ange always gave a tl;dr at the end anyway. Overall a disappointing EP. There weren't any answers given either. Well, some clues like Amakusa actually hated Ange and that Okonogi got a weapon for him to protect her from Kasumi, or something. So I guess Amakusa killed Kasumi and her men on Rokkenjima. Stupid Amakusa. He's deceiving my Ange. 7/10. EP5 got a 9/10, so I guess I have to lower my rating on VNDB to an 8... |
Samu-tanJul 30, 2010 2:08 PM
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| Okay, just finished, here are my questions: 1. Someone stated that there was an explosion on Rokkenjima, and it was talked about in EP6. Where exactly? O.o' 2. The "I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!" vs. "Even if you do join us- There are 17 people." problem. Since they are both stated in red, they are both most definitely truth. It first seem to be a contradiction. If you think about it, it depends on the definition "human" and "people". But how can that be different? If you define "human" as personality, thus making Shakanon two "humans" then it's okay. But then why isn't "people" referring to the multiply personalities? 18 humans = 17 ppl How? I would accept it more easily if it was the other way around though. Since the talked about different personalities = different people. But saying humans implies that we are talking about the body, not the "soul". Could it be a translation error? |
CruelAngel said: Okay, just finished, here are my questions: 1. Someone stated that there was an explosion on Rokkenjima, and it was talked about in EP6. Where exactly? O.o' Execute Piece-Erika in the Tips. Bonus point, do the same with Meta-Erika. |
| What's this whole talk about 'worst kakera' in Erika's case? Basically, doesn't she die all the time except in the beginning of Ep 5 and 6 when Bern makes her drift alive to Rokkenjima (cases which are by themselves anomalies)? So wouldn't then the 'worst fragment', the one in which she dies, actually be the only possible fragment for her? (Not that I'm complaining. Erika's death was the most satisfying moment in Umineko so far for me.) |
mstrchef117 said: So yeah, could someone clarify things for me. - We don't know what Erika saw during the parlor scene. The whole thing was narrated from Battler's POV which was unreliable (he wasn't the detective in Ep5). - The wedding scene in EP6 is 100% fantasy so yeah... |
| I mostly agree with SamTheNayru. Except for the Bern and Lambda point, I love them, but I think having them behind the scenes a little makes them more interesting, I like how they had a sense of mystery around them in the first 4 episodes and then they became much more prominent in Chiru, which I liked, but I don't want them to be everywhere. Disappointed with lack of Dlanor because she was epic in ep5, I hope so much she gets more attention in the next episodes. Battler was a terrible gamemaster and he seemed to be turning into crazy old Kinzo when he bawwwed about Beatrice and threw a tantrum. Zepar and Furfur were very disappointing. Love trials were dull, Shannon and George's love is clearly superior to Kanon and Jessica's. I mean, they're getting married; Kanon and Jessica just have awkward teen infatuations and they're very irritating. The whole love trial situation was annoying for me, the only part that actually interested me was Jessica's conversation with Kyrie. Lol'd at the Ange comment, so true. Only person who really saved the episode was Erika, she was great. Shame Bern trolled her hard. Shkannon suddenly makes a lot more sense. What's this whole talk about 'worst kakera' in Erika's case? Basically, doesn't she die all the time except in the beginning of Ep 5 and 6 when Bern makes her drift alive to Rokkenjima (cases which are by themselves anomalies)? So wouldn't then the 'worst fragment', the one in which she dies, actually be the only possible fragment for her? I assume that the piece Erika has a lot of different fates in all the different kakeras, Bern threatened to trap meta-Erika's ""soul"" (if you want to call it that) in the worst kakera, which is the one where she drowns. If you think of what Rika went through in Higurashi where she died many times but continued on in a new kakera because her meta-self was conscious to what was going on, I assume it's the same as that, except with Erika there is no "rebirth" into a new kakera, her meta-self is trapped into the kakera where she dies and that's the end of her entirely, her final kakera. Sorry if I didn't explain it well or misunderstood your question. |
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