| @inim @whiteflame55 @filifjonkan @RandomFriday @Antalk @jdvz @JokerVentura @KainiusTheGreat @ruckes New thread for Clannad After Story for anyone that would like to join in. Starts Friday. |
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23feanor said: @inim @whiteflame55 @filifjonkan @RandomFriday @Antalk @jdvz @JokerVentura @KainiusTheGreat @ruckes New thread for Clannad After Story for anyone that would like to join in. Starts Friday. Pretty dramatic change of pace from Cross Ange. Wasn't much of a fan of S1, but I've heard enough good things about this (and how utterly depressing it gets) that I'm strangely looking forward to it. |
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whiteflame55 said: I'll join in only on Sunday, after a few days off (Berlin here I come!). This will be my 3rd "Key Visual Novel Trilogy by KyoAni" show, and they say it's it's peak. So I'm looking forward to it as well. I expect more bitter-sweetness with sad and dead girls, as seen before in Air and Clannad S1. Maybe it trumps my current favorite Key VN based anime, which is not from the trilogy but ... Planetarian </shameless_plug>.Pretty dramatic change of pace from Cross Ange. Wasn't much of a fan of S1, but I've heard enough good things about this (and how utterly depressing it gets) that I'm strangely looking forward to it. |
inimAug 24, 2022 1:09 PM
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| I can't remember anything about S1 apart from a girl cooking with leeks and the big eyed character design. I've put this show off for years because of it's sad and depressing tone, but finally time to step up and enjoy a portion of misery pie. A lot of people love this show so expect it'll be more than just misery porn, at least I hope so. |
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| Episode 1 Honestly, not too much to say about this one. They have a baseball game played against some rival of Akio's where Tomoya recruits most of his friends from the previous season to play. Tomoya himself is pretty awful because of his shoulder injury, and everyone else ranges from basically useless (Nagisa) to absurdly overpowered when they dedicate themselves (Tomoyo). We also get introduced to Yusuke Yoshino, who is married to Fuko Ibuki, though his main contribution to the team is a drawn out speech about how getting on base is all he can do to help them as he is rather poor, which interrupts the game and becomes tired after the first time he tries it. There's some decently fun moments in this episode, and the payoff being a win from this slapped together team against a more finely honed opposition of older men is a nice way to end it. Nothing distinct from S1 here so far, though there are 23 episodes and this is only the first. |
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| @inim I watched the Planetarian prequel you recommended and enjoyed it but had no idea it was from the Clannad/Air/Kanon guys. Need to pick up the Planetarian OVA next. Episode 1. It's probably going to take me a few episodes to familiarise myself with the characters/story again. The baseball episode is a good reintroduction to the setting and characters but I honestly don't remember half of them, all the girls and guys look so similar, apart from Nagisa. It's hard to tell between the parents and kids the character designs are so alike. Can't remember why Tomoya is living with Nagisa and her parents or the issue with him and his dad. The main thing I recall from S1 was a bunch of purple haired girls, all looking very similar. Also have no recollection of the supernatural element to this show. I will no doubt learn more in due time. |
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23feanor said: Can't remember why Tomoya is living with Nagisa and her parents or the issue with him and his dad. The main thing I recall from S1 was a bunch of purple haired girls, all looking very similar. Also have no recollection of the supernatural element to this show. I will no doubt learn more in due time. I can fill in those gaps. Tomoya is living with Nagisa and her parents largely because of his strained relationship with his father. He talks about a shoulder injury that, in S1, was revealed to be responsible for his not further pursuing basketball despite being pretty good. That injury resulted from some prior confrontation with his father who, despite having behaved rather passively over the course of S1, was revealed to have been rather badly affected by the death of his wife and caused the injury. That relationship has gotten surprisingly little development so far, but we do know that Tomoya has anger issues towards his father, partly as a result of the injury and partly because of his resorting to drunkenness and general laziness after his wife's death. As for the supernatural element, there is only one that I'm aware of, and that stems from the first major arc in the series. There was a young girl named Fuuko who was found carving starfish with a dull knife who was using them as a reminder for others to attend her sister's upcoming wedding. It turned out that the girl was (and presumably remains) in a coma, yet she somehow had continuous physical presence at the school, could physically interact with others, and even be injured (mostly by herself). Going to see her actual body at the hospital automatically wiped peoples' memories, and many of those who knew her only a little suddenly were unable to see or remember her. At the end of her arc, she disappeared from everyone's memories and could no longer be seen by anyone, but she keeps randomly popping into and out of the characters' reality (presumably she's there all the time, just invisible and not physically interacting most of the time) to do short, comedic interludes. Never got any explanation. |
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| @whiteflame55 thanks for that info. I remember being distinctly underwhelmed by S1 (likely why I don't remember much) so same as you hoping this season might provide more. Episode 2. So not really much to say, Nagisa and Tomoya go around trying to get Sunohara a fake girlfriend so his little sister, Mei, won't worry about him and will go back home. This gives opportunity for comedy and lots of rejections. That is until Sanae offers to help. Here's where I got confused. Nagisa calls Sanae and Akio her mum and dad (so does the character synopsis), but Tomoya seems uncertain about this and calls Sanae and Akio Nagisa's older brother and sister? And if Sanae and Akio are married why is Sanae all up for pretending to be a high schoolers boyfriend, something that would definitely piss off any husband, but she doesn't get it a seconds thought (apart from saying Sunohara seemed a nice lad underneath and she wanted to help him). Maybe this was all explained in S1. I did look to see if there was a summary recap episode of S1 but no luck. Then there's the first supernatural element which came out of nowhere for me. A garbage doll in some other world and a young girl, and a couple of rams. The girl helps to collect pieces for the garbage doll where we are told that nothing exists. Hmmm. |
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| Episode 2 We're starting to dig further into a story element from S1: namely, why Mei keeps showing up and what Youhei's whole deal is. We don't get far into that in this episode. Instead, we get a subplot where Youhei is trying to show off to his sister by showing that he has a girlfriend. After asking every other girl in his life and getting rejected, he ends up getting Sanae to pose as a his girlfriend, believing that she is Nagisa's sister (she does, admittedly, look rather young). Sanae looks even younger after putting her hair in two long pigtails and dressing as a schoolgirl, somehow avoiding detection (at least initially) by Mei who knows her very well. So far, nothing too interesting. There's a bit of this continuous element that appeared at the end of most episodes in S1, which showed up briefly in the previous episode, that includes a young girl talking to a garbage doll. It eventually connected up to Nagisa's play at the end of S1, but it's unclear where this will connect to the main story. Episode 3 This is the first episode that makes me think there could be something to this season, though it's only breadcrumbing so far. For the most part, the date between Youhei and Sanae is uneventful, with the former taking the latter to do things that generally aren't very romantic and don't look great to Mei. Mei ends up worrying about both of them as a result. We get some light peeks into Youhei's background, when he behaved more like a protective older brother before... well, something happened. Youhei opposes intervention in others affairs to an extreme now, actively opposing helping two young kids who look lost and even stopping himself from intervening when Mei and Tomoya feign running away together, an act that Youhei appears to believe is genuine. Youhei does speak up, but not enough to be heard over the surrounding crowd, and when he fails to be heard, he just walks away. Mei decides to stay in an effort to address what she's seeing. Youhei was a little understood character in S1 and we still don't understand him well. He is no wilting flower in the majority of situations when it comes to how he is treated, but he clearly does have some impediments to his ability to confront problems among people around him. Perhaps this comes from a strong independent streak with the mentality being that others should be similarly independent? Maybe his experience includes some intervention in the affairs of others that resulted in strong blowback for him or actively harmed those he tried to help? We'll see how this develops, but it could be interesting. |
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| Episode 3. I agree @whiteflame55 this episode showed something more beneath the superficial highschool rom-com interactions we've seen so far. Mei sees through the fake girlfriend act, yet Sunohara still goes on another date with Sanae, who seems to want to help Sunohara through whatever problems he is going through. Mei and Tomoya even pretend to be dating try to rouse Sunohara's anger and get him to act brotherly towards Mei, but he just seems disinterested, or is afraid to open up to his sister because of some past trauma. |
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| Episode 4 It's this kind of episode that really typified the first season for me: the series would set up some intriguing confrontation with a character's personal demons, and then just kinda... fumble it in the end. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit, and perhaps Youhei's story just hasn't run its course (we've still got plenty of episodes in this season), but given how many episodes he already has had and given that this was set up for the prior two episodes, I'm left just being frustrated with the conclusion to this short arc. On the good side, we learned a bit more about how he and Tomoya came to meet and how they established a largely wordless bond via their shared bad boy natures and efforts to just push back against the world that they were spurning. It's also nice to see Youhei actually come to his sister's defense, even if it comes largely out of nowhere given the last couple of episodes. On the bad side... the soccer team is really just a bunch of assholes. It makes sense of why he hasn't tried to go back to them, but it doesn't make sense of why he has a complex about intervening on behalf of others. The knock down, drag out fight with Tomoya also felt a bit manufactured. I might have bought it as part of their communication issues, but then they just started yelling at each other and it honestly felt pretty stupid given that Tomoya's "relationship" with Mei wasn't real in the first place and Youhei is just really gullible. That Youhei feels he can trust Tomoya doesn't really work as an explanation for why he didn't intervene, either. There's clearly something more going on here, something much deeper than just having a fight with a bunch of asshole teammates who would abuse a little girl just to get a rise out of him, but we've only gotten slight hints as to what it is. I don't think it was a bad episode, just a real let down after the prior setup. That's been my experience with this series so far, glimpses of something more intriguing that always seem to be covered up by contrived or frustrating story turns. |
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| Episode 4. I think you voiced all my thoughts really concisely on this episode @whiteflame55. One thing I will say is that the production quality is very good, clean lines, nice background art and OST (the OP has emotional tones written all over it), not surprising as this is from KyoAni. I've found my bunch of purple haired girls from S1 that I remember, the ones sat with Nagisa and Tomoya in the opening scene (Kyou, Kotomi & Ryou). What I don't get is the convoluted fake relationships that keep appearing and Sunohara especially not caring or pretending are real. He knows Sanae is a fake girlfriend, so why's he seeing her so much (does he still not know she's married maybe), for that matter why is Sanae still seeing him, and why is Sunohara still acting like Mei and Tomoya are a couple when he knows that Nagisa and Tomoya are together? Seems like it's just convenient melodrama over nonsense (contrived would be a better word) fake relationships. To be fair, all the misunderstandings are resolved by the end of the episode. |
23feanorAug 29, 2022 3:45 AM
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| Episode 1 A recollection episode where the cast of the first season forms a rag tag baseball team. Daddy Cool (Aiko, aka Nagisa's dad, aka The Baker) needs them to beat the team of other shop owners who even hired an ex-pro. Shenanigans happen and harem MC (aka Tomoya) bats for the win in the 11th hour. Regular school and harem comedy without ecchi, not different from S1. I file this under the "let us show you all faces and put names on them so you remember" episode. Episode 2-4 Youhei-Mei brosis arc. Youhei is the blonde loser soft-delinquent and Tomoya's best friends. He's loud, he's stupid, and often does cringe stuff. In German I'd say he causes me to "fremdschämen", which roughly translates to vicarious embarrassment. Think David Brent from The Office. His imouto and resident loli Mei is frustrated with her brother. It turns out he used to be a better person, protective and caring, until he was bullied in his soccer team. To convince Mei that he's a popular guy, Youhei looks for a fake girl friend but all harem girls reject the role. Nagisa's mom Sanae poses as her older sister and agrees to fake-date Youhei. She can't be younger than mid-30s, so yea: anime suspension of disbelief is required. They date and Youhei continues to behave like an idiot. When he rejects to help a little girl bullied on a playground Sanae steps in and Mei is deeply frustrated. She now pulls the "I'm in love with a (fictional) bad person run after me". No effect. Next is Tomoya acting as her lolicon lover, no reaction either. Eventually Tomoya and Mei go to the soccer team and ask for his return on his behalf. The team bullies Mei and all in a sudden Youhei shows up and defends her. He and Tomoya get seriously beaten up by the soccer team. Which solidifies their friendship and brings redemption for Youhei. Overall The first 2 episodes are vanilla school rom-com. The 3rd episode gave me mild goose bumps wit the "onii-chan" scene. The 4th then had a remarkable tone shift with the trauma story. There's visual story telling at work, a lot of muddy browns, dark clouds and rain. Clearly the show is going for tonal shifts. So far there were two, the "silly to creepy" onii-chan scene and the "soccer trauma and fight" one. I can only hope that this is used similarly to Higurashi, where there are some really silly build-up comedy episodes followed by devastating psychological (and physical) horror in each arc. The first three episodes were a lot like S1 and by that just average rom-com. There is a more mature and dark undertone in them already, erupting in episode 4. There's the subversion of roles because Nagisa's parents (Aiko and Sanae) are pretty much more childish and silly than the teenagers. But we know from episode one that they too have a backstory, sacrificing their dreams and careers to care for their sickly daughter. So it's kind of a mask, even when the show loves to play it for laughs. |
inimAug 29, 2022 3:33 PM
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| Episode 5. We get another garbage doll and the lonely girl routine again. Then the gang sat round talking to Misai, who is definitely a diamond in the rough in my book and more likely the VN route I would have taken. We then get a peak into Misai's history. I wonder if the guy with the hat who meets her at the school gate, Shima, is now the cat? Some supernatural elements creeping in with the mention of a wish granting device, guess this will be important later on in the story. We witness Shima get closer to Misai wanting to repay her for a past kindness, only to be the bearer of bad news when the guy Misai has a crush on, Igurashi, asks Shima to break the news to her that he already has a girlfriend. Not sure what relevance this has on the story now but guessing we'll find out later. |
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| Episode 5 Sagara Misae is the resident manager at Youhei's dorm. She was a student council president when she was in high school. Misae is friendly with the dorm students but strict when it comes to the dorm rules, up to brute force. Tomoya and Nagisa visit Youhei, meet Misae and her tomcat Nanashi (no-name), and Tomoya falls asleep. Flashback (it may be her dream?) to Misae's school days. She's in love with Igarashi who unfortunately is taken. One day she meets a strange boy named Shima Katsuki who hints to have supernatural powers and the ability to grant her a random wish. Misae doesn't take it seriously, but the two grow closer after a rough start. Katsuki claims to be a boy in a wheelchair whom Misae helped with a kind smalltalk years ago. He's then tasked by Igarashi to tell Misae that her love will remain unrequited because he already has a steady girlfriend. Katski tells Misae indirectly, but she understands eventually and runs away. I second @23feanor's speculation that the Katski is the cat. Hints: The hair color, it's shape with a hint of ears forming, the eyes, the cap which is staple anime trope to hide animal ears, and of course the name. "Katze" is cat in German, it's 1:1 J-mangled and "cat" is similar as well. |
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| Episode 5 Not much to add to what both of you covered. Given that I know what happens in the next episode (more on that shortly), obviously you are both right about the cat, though I'll admit I was hoping for something a little different. I like the prospect of taking a look into the past, since it gives us the potential opportunity to see into Nagisa's parents' lives before they had her and to explore this world in new ways with a different set of characters. It's an effective way to mix things up. Episode 6 A lot of this episode focuses on a dream Tomoya is having where he apparently accurately remembers some of Misae's background. Misae and Katsuki build a bit of a cute relationship over the course of the episode, including a scene where Misae's friends dress Katsuki up as a girl to have him infiltrate a student council meeting. Of course, Misae sees right through it, but she isn't mad about it. By this point, she's given up on Igarashi and there's some actual feelings here. What initially piqued my interest during this episode was that, when Katsuki tried to go home, he had trouble remembering where home was. Turns out, he's not Katsuki. The real Katsuki is dying (not sure when this shift happened) and the cat... apparently assumed his form to grant Misae's wish? It seems like a weird way to make this work, and what initially had my interest was that the grieving mother didn't see him when Misae's friends arrived. I initially thought that this was a similar circumstance to Fuko, which would have been a good way to bring her story back around and make it relevant again without the usual comedic popping in she does. Instead, we got this cat story, which doesn't work too badly, but feels a bit convoluted. In a story with minimal fantasy elements so far, it's weird that we barely explored the first one before moving onto another. Anyway, this all comes out after Katsuki disappears before Misae's eyes at a festival, reappearing as a cat to be with her. Tomoya relays some of this to Misae and we get a sweet moment where we can hear the cat's thoughts and its fervent wish (Katsuki's wish) to ensure that Misae is happy. |
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| Episode 6. We get the resolution to Misae and Shima's story and the show laying the groundwork for supernatural events. This show is good at setting the mood for emotional events with the music and visuals. Makes me anxious for when things get really sad later on. It appears the lights we see floating around with the garbage doll and lonely girl might be the supernatural wishes of the characters in the story. |
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| Episode 6 Misae and Katsuki slowly fall in love. There's a gender bender plot line in which he visits her in school (she sees through the disguise but remains silent about it). When two friends of Misae ask him to take them to his home, he can't remember at first. Later it turns out he's not Shima Katsuki, wo died, but his cat supernaturally tasked to grant the wish to Misae. A wish is one of those small orbs of lights we see galore in the "other world" scenes with the girl and the robot. Eventually Misae and Katsuiki visit an autumn festival and she confesses to him. At this point he has to leave (this world) and shortly after Misae adopts her current cat. Tomoya wakes up and remembers the dream, including the "I'm sorry I had to go, I love you too" message Katsuki gave him for Misae. Both "couples" visit this years autumn festival. After Tomoya told the story, an orb of light appears - wish granted just in pet form. Overall, like both of you noted the show shifts from the silly comedy format to mystery and drama. This is much closer to the majority of material I know from Key, and preferred to me. And yup, (visual) story telling, animation quality and everything craftsmanship are of finest KyoAni quality. It's not surprising, Naoko Yamada was in the team and directed/story-boarded eps 3, 10, 16, and 22. whiteflame55 said: I haven't seen Kanon, but in Air it's handled the same way. There's a shared world and a main couple connecting otherwise rather unrelated arcs. After each completed arc it's characters are pretty much disposed (or typically even die in some shape of form, it's still Key). The supernatural element is vague (but present) in Air as well, and replaced with highly advanced technology in Planetarian. Another difference is the genre mix the typical sad girl stories are placed into: school rom-com here, atmospheric mystery in Air, and dystopian sci-fi in Planetarian. I think it's safe to say Key VN based anime is semi-episodic by nature.Instead, we got this cat story, which doesn't work too badly, but feels a bit convoluted. In a story with minimal fantasy elements so far, it's weird that we barely explored the first one before moving onto another. |
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| Episode 7. The Yukine arc. The guys (Nagisa, Tomoya and Sunohara) hang out with 'big sis' Yukine who is an adviser of sorts to the locals rival gangs, helping out anyone who needs it. Turns out her big brother is the gang leader, a shadow boss as he doesn't let his face be seen by anyone outside of the gang. Then a young lad arrives on the scene saying that his older sister has been kidnapped. Sunohara pretends to be the big boss Kazuto and with Yukine's help they locate his sister. She had an argument with her parents and decided to move out (she is 21 so not really running away at that age). Finally Sunohara is targeted by the rival gang who think he's the real gang leader Kazuto (Yukine's brother). They are saved but this presents a problem. I wonder if Yukine and Kazuto will be the same person? |
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inim said: Episode 6 whiteflame55 said: I haven't seen Kanon, but in Air it's handled the same way. There's a shared world and a main couple connecting otherwise rather unrelated arcs. After each completed arc it's characters are pretty much disposed (or typically even die in some shape of form, it's still Key). The supernatural element is vague (but present) in Air as well, and replaced with highly advanced technology in Planetarian. Another difference is the genre mix the typical sad girl stories are placed into: school rom-com here, atmospheric mystery in Air, and dystopian sci-fi in Planetarian. I think it's safe to say Key VN based anime is semi-episodic by nature.Instead, we got this cat story, which doesn't work too badly, but feels a bit convoluted. In a story with minimal fantasy elements so far, it's weird that we barely explored the first one before moving onto another. Appreciate the insight. It's taking a little getting used to. Episode 7 The gang gets in the middle of a literal gang fight during their time with Yukine. It's interesting to get this kind of insight into her character because up until now, she was mainly just a nice girl who ran a supplemental library while preparing food and coffee for the cast while they were around. Now we learn that she's acted as a sort of mediator between two rival gangs, one of which is (they really try to make you believe it still is, though even by the end of this episode, it's pretty clear that he's out of the picture) led by her bother Kazuto, a legendary fighter in his own right who could even potentially keep up with Tomoyo. This episode is mostly fluffy with Sunohara pretending to be Kazuto and getting targeted as a result, though nothing hugely consequential happens. Episode 8 First episode I'll say I unequivocally enjoyed and an a good end to this short arc. So it turns out that Sunohara's gambit to pretend to be Kazuto got the other gang riled up. During a previous scuffle with that gang, Tomoyo beat up three of its members in a dark tunnel, and they saw that as proof that Kazuto was back. There's a big planned attack that may result in a lot of really badly beat up gang members, with some non-zero chance of more fatal consequences (though honestly, these guys don't seem like they'd go that far). After visiting the leader of the rival gang with Yukine, they strike a deal: a 1v1 fight between Sunohara (pretending to be Kazuto) and the enemy gang leader. Strangely, he actually seems ready for this, though those preparations quickly fall apart as the entire gang tastes Sanae's most recent pastry and everyone passes out. That just leaves Tomoya to fight, and I initially didn't love this, but damn if the fight isn't a joy to watch. They really went all out on the animation budget for this episode because the choreography and camera angles is actually pretty good (these aren't trained fighters, but it works for them). This surprisingly ends in a draw with Tomoya managing to impress their leader enough to stop the fight. But then, the "real" Kazuto appears. @23feanor kinda called it, as this is actually Yukine dressed as her brother in a desperate attempt to stop the fighting. In tears, she manages to end the fighting, only to bring everyone over to her brother's grave afterward. It turns out that Kazuto wasn't in the hospital like she had been saying up to this point, but had somehow died previously. That explains why he never called to stop the fighting and why no one visited him. Apparently, his gang was aware of this, but Yukine was asked to keep it a secret, as he believed that it getting out would yield a gang war. Ironic, then, that the gang fight occurred because they thought he had returned. We get a nice little bit at the end about these orbs in the sky that apparently only appear in special moments, one of which Tomoya sees while at the gravesite. |
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| Episode 8. This was a better calibre of episode and the fight looked pretty cool for a non battle shounen. I found it interesting when Yukine explains about the orbs of light, giving the supernatural element a bit more air time and laying out the premise that when a wish or kindness is granted/achieved these lights orbs are observed, as Nagisa mentions when Misae and Shima went to the festival. And Tomoya may have a special ability to see these light orbs ablthough Yukine doesn't know why, hmmm. |
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| Episode 7/8 A delinquent arc about deceased gang leader Kazuto and his sister Yukine. She's been a side character in the high-school plot so far and now gets her own arc. Anidb says she was initially created as a full harem girl, but degraded as her backstory was the weakest of the candidates. Quite interesting to get this little insight into the inner working of KyoAni's process. She's a Florence Nightingale, giving neutral medical help to injured members of both gangs fighting over supremacy in the story's small town. Her brother was leading one of them but died (selflessly while saving somebody else) and she and the gang keep hat secret to avoid succession fights with the rival gang. There's little to add to @whiteflame55's summary. It's an unusual KyoAni arc with delinquents and fight choreography, but not completely foreign to the company - see Full Metal Panic!. Tomoya can see those light orbs, most others seem not to be able to. They seem to pop up when very strong emotions get into play. In this arc it's at the moment the members of both rival gangs pay respect at Kazuto's grave. Previously it was when Misae's cat was able to complete it's task of dating her at the fall festival. In the robot + girl isekai world, the two of them are going on what seems to be a dangerous voyage from which they may not return. That element of the story is very mysterious still. Overall, I'm not a delinquent and fighting genre fan but can appreciate the quality as well. The (melo)drama was a bit wooden, I liked the cat arc more. These delinquents are far too soft to be credible. |
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| Episode 9. The beginning of the Nagisa and Tomoya arc, a subtle shift in the heavy dramatic tones. Nagisa gets sick again and has to stay back a year. Tomoya graduates but with a heavy heart as he just wants to stay by Nagisa's side. Expect things with get serious quickly. |
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| Episode 9 Graduation is coming close when Nagisa's sickness strikes again forcing her into bed over a prolonged period. Her parents open to Tomoya that she'll not be able to complete this school year. Just like the year before she missed too many days to qualify and she can't attend the exams in her feverish condition. Everybody else is busy finding a post-school career, we know about Ryou (nurse), Kyou (kindergarten teacher), Kotomi (college in the US) Youhei (model and VIP) - the latter fails and he ends up without a job offer. Of course. In the VN this probably was a crossroads episode and harem split. There's a big scene where everybody celebrates Nagisa's birthday, which happens to be on Christmas Eve, together as a farewell to their childhood. The teacher who sponsored Nagisa's wish to mentor the acting club retires as well, leaving the club in limbo. This is where most anime would end, yet this one is just about to fully start now. The cliffhanger shows Tomoya and Nagisa on hios graduation day, walking hand in hand. Overall, we're back to the main couple's road from that arc-ish excursion. Next episode is one by Yamada and it seems she was in charge of that overarching story. The ratio of drama to comedy is shifting more and more, Nagisa's illness seems to be here to stay. As is her relation with Tomoya. In the parallel world scene of this episode the robot and the girl have started to build a flying machine to escape towards a livelier world. That's the trip without return they talked about last episode. We get a new breadcrumb, namely that winter is coming and the girl will not be able to move anymore then. So they have to hurry. That parallels Nagisa's progressing disease, and the flying machine her developing relation with Tomoya. The "land of no return but with life" would be adulthood then? |
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| Episode 10. Ok this was the first episode that really grabbed my attention. As you mentioned for ep 9 @inim most anime would usually end with the confession and graduation but this show is only just beginning. We don't often (or at all, can't think of another off the top of my head) get to see characters we know already graduate as it can be a messy time when teenagers suddenly have to grow up, make big life decisions etc. Watching Tomoya get a job and his first place, with little furniture/accessories was genuinely interesting and very relatable for most people. As was Tomoya bumping into Ryou and Kyou, people you rubbed shoulders with everyday at school/college/uni gradually becoming strangers or only distant friends despite your best intentions due to busy lives getting in the way is a melancholy fact of life. Looking forward to see how the story develops from here on in. Bit surprised Nagisa and Tomoya aren't more lovey dovey yet. I can understand them not kissing cuddling when they were living with Sanae and Akio, but when he walks her home after moving to his new place, they don't give each other a farewell kiss or hug, something new couples almost always do, although this could be a Japanese no-PDA thing. |
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23feanor said: Another anime incluing both school and young adult development (and the oldest I'm aware of) is Rumbling Hearts (2003). So does She, The Ultimate Weapon (2002) but the focus here is on anti-war, and it's easily among the most depressing anime ever made. You have been warned. Then there's Looking Up At The Half-Moon (2006) which crosses the school / young adult border in romance, but just in the end twist and it's not set in school. The girl is already hospitalized in it from day one. And finally there's Nana which literally starts with the scene where the two Nanas go to Tokyo after graduation to start their young adult life. But that anime is great for many more reason, it's in my 10 favorites for a reason. I really recommend all four of them, mature and tragic shows just close enough to vanilla tropes to see where they come from, but going beyond.Most anime would usually end with the confession and graduation but this show is only just beginning. We don't often (or at all, can't think of another off the top of my head) get to see characters we know already graduate as it can be a messy time when teenagers suddenly have to grow up, make big life decisions etc. |
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inim said: 23feanor said: Another anime incluing both school and young adult development (and the oldest I'm aware of) is Rumbling Hearts (2003). So does She, The Ultimate Weapon (2002) but the focus here is on anti-war, and it's easily among the most depressing anime ever made. You have been warned. Then there's Looking Up At The Half-Moon (2006) which crosses the school / young adult border in romance, but just in the end twist and it's not set in school. The girl is already hospitalized in it from day one. And finally there's Nana which literally starts with the scene where the two Nanas go to Tokyo after graduation to start their young adult life. But that anime is great for many more reason, it's in my 10 favorites for a reason. I really recommend all four of them, mature and tragic shows just close enough to vanilla tropes to see where they come from, but going beyond.Most anime would usually end with the confession and graduation but this show is only just beginning. We don't often (or at all, can't think of another off the top of my head) get to see characters we know already graduate as it can be a messy time when teenagers suddenly have to grow up, make big life decisions etc. Thanks for that. Rumbling Hearts has been on my ptw list for years (just one of an endless list of shows I want to get around to one day, sigh) so maybe I'll bump it up the priority list soon. I heard it gets quite tragic and why I've avoided it up till now. |
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| Episode 10 "A Season of Beginnings" is an appropriate title, Tomoya takes giant steps towards adult life. The first scene involves his now useless school uniform. He starts to help out in the bakery first. He carefully tries to find out how the land lies about a proposal to Nagisa with her dad. Then Tomoya goes full Monty and moves into his first own apartment, and starts his first real job as electrician. He gets help from Yusuke (job), apartment (Ryou) and furniture (Akio and Sanae). The toll all this takes is exemplified in two scenes. One is the final one, where he comes home and can't stay awake because of exhaustion. And when he meets Ryou and Kyou in town and they all notice that despite living in the same (small) town, their adult life leaves them no time to meet and have fun. Nagisa's health improved and she is back to school, two years above the classes age. It seems to be an upill fight and she has a hard time to get into that group. In another intrusion of realism, we learn that nobody was interested to continue the theater club. Despite a lot of effort an energy she puts into it. It must be a pretty frustrating time for her as an absolute outsider. Yet: such is realistic adult life and kids are the cruelest people. Nevertheless she does the Yamato Nadeshiko and doesn't bother Tomoya with her problems. She's acting any bit as adult despite her weird situation as a high school student long past her life schedule. Overall, like @23feanor says there were a lot of "yes, that's how it felt for me too" moments. It actually feels like that these anime characters are far more grown up and hard working than myself, a total reversal of the usual escapism experience of anime. Tomoya has come a long way from harem lord to this. Tomoya and Nagisa don't live and sleep together, but it seems she does daily visits and chores like shopping and cooking as if they already were. The "no hugging and kissing" may be missing because of PG-13, no sex until marriage or because KyoAni saves that for it's own episode for pacing reasons. Tomoya hasn't proposed to Nagisa yet, even after Aiko has signaled his approval. It can't take much longer now. KyoAni never was the most progressive studio so I'm not surprised they play it by old-fashioned social customs. So far my badge for "most realistic young adult life depiction" went to Nana. This show is set to challenge that title with this episode. Which I consider something very positive to say. |
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| Episode 11 Japanese work life and ethics, the totally not glossed over animation. Tomoya's grows into his new job, despite the disability of his right shoulder which makes the work a lot harder for him. Yusuke notices that, but keeps it a secret and helps to make up for it. His boss is a nice guy, the company pays well ("for it's small size"). The co-workers are all buddies. By working over hours and being useful Tomoya quickly earns their respect. Welcome to worker's paradise. Did I mention a sweet waifu (Nagisa) prepares him breakfast and diner? The breakfast part is a bit suspicious, when exactly she gets up to go to his house, cook, and then attend her regular school? Or is this secret KyoAni code for living together? Whatever, she's the ideal woman. Tomoya promises Nagisa to attend her school festival on the weekend. Due to a mistake he makes in a difficult work task he takes responsibility, fixes it on a Saturday, and only makes it after the school event is over. But of course no bad blood, an ever smiling waifu tells him that he did the right thing. Overall, a bit too much sugarcoating and conservative Japanese values for me. I'm happy for Tomoya that he lands the steady job (symbolized by making his name plate non-temporary in the last scene). He deserves it he's a good worker and nice guy. Also well directed and so on and so forth. This is one of those "110% perfect life" episodes required to make the upcoming tragedy hit harder. A little less wholesomeness, buddy team and waifu perfectionism would have been better in my book. But yea, the episode had a mission and accomplished it. Completely. And then some more. |
inimSep 4, 2022 1:42 PM
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| Episode 11. @inim I also wondered about Nagisa being present to make Tomoya breakfast, is this as you say KyoAni's way of telling us that she is sleeping over without showing them sharing a bed? We see Tomoya walk Nagisa home in the evening so I guess she doesn't sleep over, yet. Noticed that they bow slightly to each other when they part ways each evening, very strange for a couple to my European eyes, couples don't bow politely they embrace or a small kiss. This has been bothering me for a while. Why does Akio always have a half smoked cigarette in his mouth, either smoke it or throw it away. I smoke and the thought of walking round with a half smoked rolly in my mouth is horrible. I've noticed when watching anime characters smoke, i subconsciously get the urge to smoke and will often go out for a rolly when I've watched an episode with a character smoking a lot, happened a lot whilst we were watching Phantom. Tomoya becomes a full member of the team with his own name badge and Nagisa embraces being a housewife. Personally i find Nagisa a bit bland in her perfect waifu role in this episode. |
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23feanor said: There even was a shot playing it super-safe. His futon from above with plenty of room around it, and Nagisa approaching him with breakfast while he still sleeps. The futon is far too small for a couple, and no second one is in sight. They really rub it in :)Episode 11. @inim I also wondered about Nagisa being present to make Tomoya breakfast, is this as you say KyoAni's way of telling us that she is sleeping over without showing them sharing a bed? We see Tomoya walk Nagisa home in the evening so I guess she doesn't sleep over, yet. |
inimSep 5, 2022 7:09 AM
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| Episode 12 Yusuke's backstory of rock musician stardom and back is told. He went to full circle from zero (talent and hard work) to peak (stardom and fans) to loss of creativity, burnout, drugs and back to zero. I'm not quite sure how brutal the contracts for musicians in Japan are. But given he wrote multiple hits, I'd expect some money to remain even after his downfall. At times I blame the show to trade the final ounce of realism which would make it truly great for simplification and easier emotional manipulation. It works, and they do it so much better than trash (sic!) such as Your Lie In April. Still they give away Nana greatness by sanitizing the last bit for the sake of PG-13 and calmer pacing. The perfect couple Nagisa and Tomoya's life is clouded by external events. There's a literal towering cloud in the last scene of the episode. KyoAni are masters of visual story telling, no doubt. Tomoya is offered a far better job in terms of income, physical strain and career options and loses it because his father is caught trading illegal goods. Small town rumors must be hell in conservative Japan, like father like son and you are gone. Bye bye career, back to climbing electrical posts. After visiting his dad in prison an enraged Tomoya hurts himself. He asks Nagisa to leave town with him, but she argues that she doesn't want to lose her home and option to return and stay by leaving in bad blood. Tomoya breaks together in pain and anger, she calms him. Of all situations, this is when he proposes and she happily accepts. Next stop: wedding. |
inimSep 5, 2022 3:07 PM
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| Episode 12. Another good episode. Visually KyoAni shows have so much going on, i really liked seeing the towering summer cloud in the reflection of the car windscreen as Yusuke was telling his story to Tomoya (isn't Yusuke married now, didn't Tomoya, Nagisa & co attend the wedding in S1, and did he marry the teacher from the story?). It seems like Tomoya listened to Yusuke's advice as when he was at his lowest after seeing his father in jail/police custody, he managed to bring himself back around when he realised the only other person he was hurting was Nagisa. That was a pretty damn sweet proposal, very low key but full of meaning for both characters. It's taken the first cour of the show but I'm fairly invested and interested by the set up and story so far. |
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| Episode 13 Very slice of life episode, with key scenes of Tomoya and Nagisa's road to marriage. The events are played out like they would in a normal teeny "SoL trough the year" show, but as we have young adults as cast they all have a twist. The events are: 1) Tomoya must beat Aiko in baseball with a home run worthy hit so he listens (and approves) the marriage. Once more very traditonal Japanese thinking. Aiko is a comic relief, as usual. There's a bit of ganbatte sports anime mixed in when Tomoya "trains" in every free minute and even in pouring rain. He eventually hits and wins over. Emotion played: ganbatte, ambition, fixity of purpose. 2) Nagisa's birthday to become an adult (20 in JP), conveniently combined with some X-mas stuff as this is of course her date of birth. She drinks her first sake, wants to cuddle, and suspects Tomoya to have an eye on her mom. The scene is played for comedy. This is actually the first carefree comedy scene in quite a few episodes. Emotion played: moe, careless, family warmth, generational reach out. 3) The titula graduation event where the whole cast and harem of all previous episodes come together. It took Nagisa 5 years to graduate in 3 classes but she made it. She gives a tear jerking "I love you all my friends, without you I'd never made it" speech, and ends up crying herself. Emotion played: sympathy, respect, relief. And after 3), they marry. Brief scene with ringed hand holding and ... on we go. This was clearly Nagisa's episode, all eyes on the silent girl and her inner strength. KyoAni can create emotional scenes with great ease, ranging from silly comedy to solem. So far they spare us from tragedy but it's just 9 episodes left (last 2 are recap and filler) so the hammer must hit soon. |
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| Alright, back from a trip and time to catch up with some quick thoughts about each episode. Episode 9 It's nice to see some more development of Nagisa and Tomoya's relationship, though most of this episode focuses on their paths diverging a bit as Tomoya graduates and Nagisa is held back a year. I didn't catch previously that Nagisa had been held back the previous year as well for similar reasons, so her next time will be her third time going through senior year. She's rather passive about it, all things considered. Episode 10 This is the Tomoya development episode, where he goes from a gimme job working at the bakery to a much tougher position working as an electrician, all to pay the bills for his new apartment. I see it's already been brought up how relatable much of this. Nagisa acts as the diligent girlfriend helping Tomoya through the hard stuff as he comes back dead tired, but notably avoiding telling him her problems as she feels largely alone despite having a few friends remaining at school. She does press on him to tell his father that he's moved into an apartment. Was surprised that Tomoya agreed to that, but I immediately suspected he wasn't going to do it. Episode 11 Rather linear development here with Tomoya working hard and having trouble establishing a good work-life balance. Nagisa is rather understanding of the whole thing. Episode 12 Learn a bit about Yusuke's background, which is nice given that we've spent a good deal of time with him at this point. Actually a rather affecting story despite my never having gone through that personally, and I like how it connects up to current events. Tomoya gets a potential breakthrough into a higher paying job, but has it snatched away as his father is jailed, which damages his reputation. Tomoya goes to see him, shows some visceral anger, and punches a wall. Nagisa has to actively restrain him. This is one of those events that has been a long time coming. It was pretty clear as soon as he decided to entirely step away from his father that the latter would spiral. Much as Tomoya hates the man, his father was clearly finding his only grounding in his son. With Tomoya away and out of contact, his father was likely relegated to despair in his loneliness. This is a relationship that Tomoya will eventually have to address, one he's been putting off since episode 1, so it's bound to keep coming back around. Episode 13 The whole baseball thing would probably not work as well in other anime, but it makes sense here with these two characters. Tomoya must overcome the limitations of his past (represented by his shoulder) through his dedication to show that Nagisa is his priority, something that Aiko and Sanae seem to implicitly understand while Nagisa herself takes some time to get there. Aiko himself has always been one for big, physical demonstrations of love and masculinity, so it fits his mentality. It's strange that the marriage itself is such a minor part of the episode and, therefore, of their lives. No ceremony, barely even a discussion with Tomoya's father. Really, the main ceremonies in this episode surround Nagisa's birthday and her personal graduation, which has lots of attendants. The marriage is a formality: their lives were already entwined. These other events represent more important changes, with Nagisa symbolically catching up with Tomoya and maturing into her own adulthood. |
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| Episode 13. Not sure about this episode, i thought the baseball thing was a bit dumb but in keeping with Akio and his teasing playful nature, although what would he do if Tomoya didn't hit the ball, stop them from getting married. Tomoya burying his face in the mud in face of his girlfriends father was a bit too on the nose for Japanese 'respect your elders' morals. The graduation part with everyone was nice although interesting to see the emphasis placed on the graduation of highschool over the wedding, although it may be the case that they only registered the wedding and will hold a ceremony later where friends and family will be invited. Also noticed that neither Tomoya or Nagisa mentioned the wedding to any of their friends and no one congratulated them on getting engaged? |
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| Episode 14 Probably the most awkward and uptight wedding night in recorded history, culminating in falling asleep holding hands. This goes along with stilted, rather unnatural dialogs along the lines "I am a burden to you, I apologize deeply." "No, you are so hard working. I am a burden to everybody and most of all to you." "You are the kindest person alive." "By the way, I want a baby." "Sounds fun, any idea where we can buy one?". So there's no real sexuality and open affection even after marriage. The weird part is that I actually enjoy this "pure and solemn love" stuff, nothing is dirty and mundane about this couple. Mary Nagisa's saint hood and Joseph Tomoya's mortal coil and working class pride are not one bit realistic I hope. Otoh, the Japanese population is decreasing and I now see why. Enter comic relief Akio and his Gurren Lagan sun glasses. Nagisa took a job in a fast food restaurant, including maid cosplay outfit. Tomoya and Akio visit, deal with guys harassing her, and get lauded by her boss for it. Next scene is about T&N learning the old school building hosting the drama club will be demolished. Tomoya expresses he's uncomfortable with this and other changes in their town. He still wants to leave I guess. In the last scene we learn Nagisa got pregnant, presumably holding hands is more dangerous than thought. Overall, hilariously conservative and wholesome emotional at the same time. I'm confused by the mixed messages of this show. Should I hate it for the values I don't really share, or love it for their masterful representation? |
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| Episode 14. One thing I didn't know about the original Clannad VN was that they contained nsfw/eroge content, although it wasn't the main point of the VN, apparently there were some pretty racy extra scenes. Personally I can't believe a newly married couple wouldn't do something together on their wedding night, especially after waiting until they got married, even in conservative Japan (this was simply conservative projection from the makers of the show). They would be awkward the first time then at it like rabbits for the next few months/years. Tomoya mentions the towns myth again, the light orbs, and having a wish granted. Got to love Nagisa at the end "dad, we have sex and sex makes babies". You're spot on @inim, it's a strange mix in this episode, they never show anything more intimate than hand holding, they even have separate futons (I was surprised to learn most couples in Japan have separate beds/futons), yet Nagisa gets pregnant fairly quickly after telling Tomoya that her one wish was to have a baby. To be fair that's a lot quicker than me, we'd been together for over 20 years before baby came along. |
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23feanor said: Great mind think alike, asked myself the same question. Is this true to the VN, or did KyoAni the extra family sanitizing? The result I found is different, so I'd like to learn about your source @23feanor.Episode 14. One thing I didn't know about the original Clannad VN was that they contained nsfw/eroge content, although it wasn't the main point of the VN, apparently there were some pretty racy extra scenes. My best knowledge is that Key's VN "Clannad" is "clean" from the start, as per lookup in vndb. It features the "No Sexual Content" tag there. https://vndb.org/v4 https://vndb.org/g235 |
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| @inim it was from a couple of review/recommendation video's, one from Trixie (formerly DigiBro) that I saw the other day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8z96spOI0&t=720s it's the very first recommendation so you don't need to go wading through the video luckily). I think the nsfw content may have been included on an extra patch/extension for the VN as Digi isn't the only person who mentioned Clannad having eroge content, but only at the end iirc, once you'd chosen your route and decided on a girl. Warning, there is a spoiler about the garbage doll. |
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23feanor said: It feels like the reviewers all speak of experience with VN in general and hearsay. There are side-story releases to Clannad (only one afaik) to add 18+, but there isn't a post-sales patch or anything for the main thing and all other add ons (see vndb related page, some exist) have the "no sexual content" tag.@inim it was from a couple of review/recommendation video's, one from Trixie (formerly DigiBro) that I saw the other day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8z96spOI0&t=720s it's the very first recommendation so you don't need to go wading through the video luckily). I think the nsfw content may have been included on an extra patch/extension for the VN as Digi isn't the only person who mentioned Clannad having eroge content, but only at the end iirc, once you'd chosen your route and decided on a girl. Warning, there is a spoiler about the garbage doll. https://steamcommunity.com/app/324160/discussions/0/1620599015911556135/ The one with explicit content (pixelated blow job, unpixelated nipples) is https://vndb.org/v12 and that road is not taken in the anime. Comparing that one to the OVA would be interesting, as the OVA is PG-13 and thus definitely sanitized by KyoAni. |
inimSep 8, 2022 2:52 PM
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| Episode 15 Fear, uncertainty, and doubt are nothing one wants to feel about a baby. Nagisa's weak physique, however, is raising concern with the medical experts (midwife and doctor). She wishes to have birth at home, adding extra risk to what already is more difficult and dangerous for her than for your average mother giving birth. She is at risk to suffer circulatory collapse while giving birth, which would put her own life at risk. Nagisa's doctor talks to Sanae to give that warning, who in return tasks Tomoya to carefully explore the options and defuse the situation. Even an abortion is on the table and briefly discussed. While everybody tries to pamper and cheer up Nagisa, she's any bit as afraid beneath her smile and strong facade. Akio and Tomoya grow closer, and Akio shares the story when young Nagisa collapsed in the snow and was miraculously reviewed at a meadow. The four of them grow together over the shared challenge, and in sorrow about Nagisa. Nagisa wants the baby, and everybody supports her decision. The English episode title reflects the last scene, "In the Remains of Summer". The soon-to-be parents sit at the waterfront an think of a name for the baby. My non-existing kanji literacy prevents me from getting the symbolism but they pick the gender-neutral name Ushio. Which like Nagisa's name has to do with water. When Tomoya asks her to promise to meet at the beach again in a year with Ushio, Nagisa is hesitating. Only after a 2nd asking she promises. She clearly is afraid herself about the real risk not to survive giving birth. Overall, given the happy theme (babies) the episode is rather low-key and angsty. Everybody gives their best to push down risks and make life as nice as possible for Nagisa. Inside they all shit their pants and can't completely hide the melancholy. I really liked this episode and how it gets such a complex emotion over. The next episode is directed and storyboarded by Naoko Yamada again (3,10,16,22=finale). Go Nagisa! |
inimSep 8, 2022 3:04 PM
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| Episode 15. That was a strange episode for an anime, focusing on the anxiety of pregnancy for the family involved, especially for someone with poor health. Apart from some outdated and different cultural practices (ie you don't wash your baby for a week after being born as the waxy layer/afterbirth is beneficial for their skin, also babies are never taken away from their parents after birth in the UK, even for a minute), that was pretty close representation of what goes through your head when you are expecting. The moments that got me were when the family started singing that Dango song. Also when Akio told Tomoya the story of when Nagisa was sick. You can see the show is leaving breadcrumbs of the story to come when Akio says "you have tough times ahead" and "you can't wish for a miracle", maybe Tomoya can with the light orbs. Finally really sweet watching Tomoya and Nagisa discuss the name, the shore and tides, I liked that. And now my sweet bundle of joy is awake so I must be off to feed her little highness, lol. |
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| Episode 14 Feel largely the same about the strange balance as both @inim and @23feanor do. Stilted and unnatural is certainly how I'd describe the dialogue, and while I don't mind the lack of sexuality between these two, it does feel incredibly awkward for us to get the pregnancy reveal after all this. Honestly, I probably would have laughed myself silly if Nagisa really thought that holding hands might have been how they got pregnant, though her reveal to her father got me a bit. There's a certain sincerity to this series that I appreciate, and it's nice to see some solid humor in a big moment like this, though I can't say the balancing act really works for me here. Not like I need to see anything, but the lack of physical attraction in this relationship makes it hard to believe that they went from holding hands to sex so quickly. Episode 15 You can feel the dread starting to creep into things in this episode. I'll talk about this more for episode 16, but despite the general levity of the episode, there's a consistent underlying sense of anxiety that @23feanor mentioned and it's not subtle. We've been told and shown time and again that Nagisa is not a healthy 20-year-old. At least at this point, it worked for me. I've had family members who have had difficult pregnancies and my wife is somewhat medically fragile, so the dread that her parents and Tomoya feel was something I could relate to pretty well. The levity of the rest of the episode felt like it was there mostly to convince Nagisa, not us, that things would be fine. Meanwhile, all I'm seeing is red, particularly after Akio's story about her collapsing in the snow and his prayers for her survival somehow reviving her. Episode 16 We're at the episode. Given the numerous medical issues we've seen from Nagisa, the generous warnings she and Tomoya have received, and her parents' clearly anxious feelings, it was becoming pretty obvious that Nagisa would perish at some point, and just after the birth seems apropos, particularly for a character who constantly gives of herself to others while seeking rather little for herself. That being said, despite what I said about the previous episode and my connections to this potential outcome... I don't know, this just didn't hit me all that hard. Part of the problem is that I felt like they laid it on a little thick with the foreshadowing and death flags. It's not that being "spoiled" for her death prevented me from emotionally connecting with it (certainly hasn't been the case for other series and movies), but it feels almost destined to happen, almost like watching a slow-moving train wreck. Everything goes wrong out the gate with the snowstorm, and while the midwife arrives and helps, there aren't any medical professionals there to see to Nagisa's care. Another part of the problem is all this talk from Tomoya about how preventing the construction workers from continuing to build a hospital might save her life. You get the sense that there's something to that intuition, especially with Tomoya's lashing out about changes to the town in a previous episode, but just seems to sit there after he says it. Overall, this is a more abstracted moment of sadness for me, and maybe I'm just missing the reason why. Well, Ushio is born and her mother dies. It's certainly a moment of despair for the characters, though it's strange that the sole focus is on Tomoya and Nagisa rather than giving the opportunity to include her parents. They even white out the background to really make it seem as though they and Ushio are the only ones here at this moment. In a way that makes sense, but it felt like it missed the opportunity to really make this death hit home. Maybe that's just me. |
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| Forgot to mention yday that I liked Akio's character development in ep 15. He went from comic relief, always joking about Sanae's bread, playing with toys to giving Tomoya some sage life advice and recounting some touching moments and stories from his own past. Episode 16. So the gang all gets back together for New Years to catch up and so they can have one last everyone together moment before the tragedy strikes. I liked how Kotomi introduces the cast and audience to the concept of extra dimensions and string theory and how other worlds are right there next to us, i guess alluding to the garbage doll and lonely girl (is that Nagisa as a child or maybe Ushio?). Then we get Nagisa's death, which has been foreshadowed the entire series. Honestly this didn't hit as hard as I expected, even felt a bit flat, and that's from someone who went through all these worries (even without the poor health of Nagisa child birth is a worrisome time for everyone, I was terrified for Em, just in case something went wrong). Not sure why Nagisa wasn't in the hospital already with her poor health, ready for an emergency c-section, but then I don't know abut the health care system in Japan, maybe it's like America where you have to pay for every day you're in hospital and giving birth costs about £30,000 on average, just insane! For me Plastic Memories did this much better, with the MC, Isla's death already certain as she's a robot, but when it came down to it it still hit really hard despite the build up. |
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| Episode 16 Birth, Death, and Taxes - the latter in the form of survivor's guilt and mounting depression. The preview shows the symptoms (over-flooding letter box and kitchen sink), but the comment from the off in this episode by Tomoya already shows signs. The story itself is rather straightforward and has been foreshadowed heavily. Spoilers were hard to avoid even if one tried. So the "how" is the important part. The story in a nutshell: The core high-school gang (twins, IQ girl, ex-blonde guy) visit the young couple, Nagisa is highly pregnant. The group discusses the nature of fatherhood and motherhood briefly. IQ girl delivers some science meets esoteric babble about the multiverse nature of the world. This event is also used for some memory lane montage. This is mixed with "Other World" scenes where winter and heavy snow sets in and the girl no longer can leave the house. The garbage doll desperately tries to complete their escape flying machine, but admits all he can do is pile more garbage. We also have scenes from the hospital construction site "magic place" where Nagisa came back to live in the other snowy night. Then triple disaster strikes: Nagisa has a new fever attack locking her to bed. Heavy snowfall sets in, putting traffic (and heating brief shot on a 15C in-room thermometer) to a grinding hold. In this moment Nagisa's throes set in. This spoils their plan to have birth in a hospital. Nagisa's parents and the midwife arrive (how did they make it and the ambulance did not?) and do what any dramatic birth scene needs: "Prepare hot water, as much as you can!" Yamada's directorial decisions are this. Both birth and death are mostly silent (except music), there's no moaning in pain, hectic shouting, and even baby crying. The personae are reduced to the holy trinity Nagisa, Tomoya and Ushio in front of almost blank background paintings. Nagisa's toy song is playing in a special version with literally bells and whistles for the extra orchestral drama effect. The character design changes notably, she's drawn more realistically with a longer face, smaller eyes and overall less moe. Not quite photo-realism, but compared to some of the previous episodes close. The color scheme does the Evangelion and is increasingly reduced to black and white. The death scene has Tomoya holding Ushio in some cloth talking to Nagisa. Given the baby is dry and wrapped and held by her dad, and Nagisa also is in a clean bed this must take place many minutes after the birth itself. I'm a bit confused why the baby isn't in skin contact with her mom, even a severely weakened person could do that. Maybe she lost consciousness during birth and just wakes up again now. She dies in a fade-out, there is no concrete moment marked. It's handled a lot like falling asleep while Tomoya talks to her to keep her awake. In a final shot in B/W we see those light orbs, leaving the door open for the miracle. Overall, I agree that this isn't the most tear jerking death scene in anime. It may be one of the most realistic ones though, skin contact with the baby aside. I like this a lot better than the melodramatic ways of Your Lie in April or the deeply depressing and nihilistic versions in the likes of Texhnolyze. Nagisa dies as a human, not as a plot device (YLIA& co.) or mythical figure. So it's the low-key "fade to white" I actually like, and not adding melodrama and cry-porn to keep it natural is a good decision. Yamada's next work was her first full director job for K-On! released 6 months later. So this is pretty much her journeyman's piece. |
inimSep 10, 2022 8:00 AM
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| @inim I think you make a good point actually. Maybe my expectations of heightened misery porn made me anticipate a highly melodramatic death scene and what we got was more simple. I thought they were going to use the last 20 secs from the OP as the key theme for Nagisa's death, but that would have been a too obvious emotional manipulation. It was understated and impactful, just not what I expected, but that shouldn't be a negative thing. Thanks for reminding me. Good call on the skin to skin, something I didn't know about before Aria. Apparently the endorphin/adrenalin boost from holding/seeing their baby straight after giving birth really helps mothers. |
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| I couldn't imagine that reading this might be more interesting than watching. |
| @inim you make a good point about the realism of the scene, and I certainly have seen problems with series that attempt to manipulate their audiences in a way that this does not. Especially given that this series has attempted to contrive certain emotional moments in ways that appeared manipulative to me before, I do give this one some credit, even as I acknowledge that it's difficult for me to emotionally connect with such a major moment in the series. Episode 17 I have felt for a long time that Sanae was best girl, and honestly, this episode affirms it pretty hard. She appears at Tomoya's door after Tomoya exposits (and briefly shows) his downward spiral as he self-flagellates after the death of his wife, clearly blaming himself for it. We don't initially know how long he has been working himself to the bone, then gambling and smoking away his money while he lets his personal life fall apart around him, nor do we know the status of his daughter in this portion of the episode. He appears to have shut himself off to the passage of time, miring himself in depression. Really do feel for the guy, especially as this is a near mirror image of how his father apparently behaved after Tomoya's mother died. Anyway, Sanae appears at the door unphased and perky as always, so clearly this takes place well after Nagisa's death (at least a few months - no way she was untouched by Nagisa's death, even if we still haven't explored her or Akio's reactions). Her appearance both functions as a wake up call to Tomoya, who suddenly recognizes the mess around him when someone else is there to see it, and is literally pulled out of his inner world to go on a date with her. From there, Sanae pushes on Tomoya to join "everyone" (she is notably non-specific about this, does not mention Ushio) on a trip of some kind to an unspecified location. After wheedling him for a bit, calling him back-to-back to see if he has thought it through (she knows him well enough to know that he already has and, if given the opportunity, will shrink away), he agrees to go. And thus, she has trapped Tomoya. Sanae and Akio aren't there when he arrives, but Ushio is. This was clearly a scheme to ensure that Tomoya had a long weekend to spend alone with Ushio, though Tomoya appears far too dense to have figured that out. She is, shockingly, five years old at this point. We find out from this and from little clues given over the rest of the episode that he has been an absentee father in her life. She barely seems to know him, and apparently any visits he has had with her have been with Sanae and Akio around. His behavior around her also speaks to his inexperience with her, often giving her short replies and avoiding opportunities to praise her. Part of this may stem from the fact that she looks an awful lot like Nagisa, and may remind him of the wrongs he feels he did to his wife. Still, FIVE GODDAMN YEARS. Feels like that should hit with a more resounding thud, or at least really shake Tomoya as a character. The episode largely is comprised of small interactions between the two of them. Tomoya learns about Ushio's eating habits (doesn't like pepper in her food), her potty habits (seriously, just praise her a little - Sanae and Akio probably do that without a second thought), her klutziness (definitely Nagisa's child), and he even does fix a broken toy of hers... though he doesn't have the presence of mind to just keep the toy away from her until the glue dries. In any case, the episode ends with them going off on an adventure... somewhere, though it has a beautiful little moment where we find out that the girl skipping at the start of the ED is, in fact, Ushio. She literally skips seamlessly into the ED. I love that stuff. There's a sense that she's slowly warming to him, and perhaps he'll return that affection. Overall, I really liked this one. It's understated, but there's a lot of meaning behind what's going on, and Tomoya has usually been the character that I like to watch the most because there's a lot going on under the hood. The next couple of episodes will likely be a great struggle for him to get back to a sense of normalcy and really connect with his daughter, but the part that will be most interesting is whether he reverts after the long weekend or really tries to make this a regular thing, not retreating to work as he has been doing. |
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| Episode 17 The episode takes place after a five year time skip. Tomoya had left Ushio with Akio and Sanae, which is a bit of lazy story telling but both acceptable due to the nature of the story and probably even social reality of a single dad. So no dirty diaper episodes, which is just fine. Tomoya lives in a state of depression, comfortably numbing himself with work, cigs and sake, and gambling. He fears the loneliness he feels at his spare time, when thoughts and memories bubble up. One day Sanae tricks him into a "family trip" which he expects is with her and Akio, but he ends up alone with Ushio and no grandparents to be seen. The situation and how it's played is very similar to Usagi Drop (2011). A hardened bachelor and a little girl carefully test each other, curiously and carefully. At this point it doesn't really matter much that Tomoya is her real dad, he has no clue how to handle children as exemplified in the two potty scenes, the glue in the toy wheels, and the peppered rice meal. However, the two of them start to connect despite mutual misunderstandings, blood obviously is thicker than water once more. Ushio sleeps over and the next day Tomoya asks her to join him on a trip, without her grandparents. She happily accepts. Overall, another massive change in story type and tone, and once again for the better. While Ushio is a cute little girl, her portrayal resists overly sugary and moe stereotypes. Once again there's high realism in the writing, both regarding the depression, the behavior of a child carefully checking the environment, and how the two slowly connect and bond. I'm a big fan of realistic depiction of children in anime (and media in general), the type which doesn't make them little adults, dumbs them down to the cuteness aspect or loli/shota-fies them into objects. Looking at the next episodes' synopsis this show may deliver on that preference:, like: Usagi Drop (2011), Omoide Poroporo (1991), Kakushigoto (2020), and Barakamon (2014). The other notable aspect of the episode is it's excellent camera work. I've checked and it's directed by Mitsuyoshi Yoneda, a long term animation director at KyoAni who worked on almost all Tatsuya Ishihara shows and his Key adaptations in particular. |
inimSep 11, 2022 2:26 AM
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