Attack on Titan
lKingDGl said: deg said: dude if you include the author then yes all stories are deterministic but the story is separate from the author when interpreting it right? If I didn't include the author, it still deterministic with some exceptions. One exception is when an anime use time travel concepts. My problem is actually why some people use "deterministic world" to explain AoT's controversies, while in fact time travel story couldn't be deterministic (exclude author), unless explained properly. Take a look in AoT's case, I'll pick the example of Eren killing his mother because that is the most I pissed off, and btw not trying to save her when you can time travel is equal to killing. Have we really seen Eren's doing actions to protect his mother but still ends up killing her? Some people just take this as deterministic while there isn't any proof of it being deterministic. The "unless explained properly" part in my first paragraph is if we actually see the story where Eren's doing other actions but the result is the same, but we didn't see that so "deterministic world", especially in time travel story, is headcanon. there are different kinds of time travel though like here which is the more likely case for Attack on Titan  |
deg said: lKingDGl said: If I didn't include the author, it still deterministic with some exceptions. One exception is when an anime use time travel concepts. My problem is actually why some people use "deterministic world" to explain AoT's controversies, while in fact time travel story couldn't be deterministic (exclude author), unless explained properly. Take a look in AoT's case, I'll pick the example of Eren killing his mother because that is the most I pissed off, and btw not trying to save her when you can time travel is equal to killing. Have we really seen Eren's doing actions to protect his mother but still ends up killing her? Some people just take this as deterministic while there isn't any proof of it being deterministic. The "unless explained properly" part in my first paragraph is if we actually see the story where Eren's doing other actions but the result is the same, but we didn't see that so "deterministic world", especially in time travel story, is headcanon. there are different kinds of time travel though like here which is the more likely case for Attack on Titan Interesting... you are talking about the 1st right? Because the other 2 don't seem likely. But my point still stands, there is no evidence of fixed timeline, Eren never tried to save his mother. And even *if* it was fixed timeline, then there will be more controversies. 1. Why Eren need to manipulate his father if the outcome is fixed? 2. What about "the first Eren" in the timeline? The Eren which can't see the future because there is no future yet. I just need a proper explanation from the author. |
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lKingDGl said: deg said: there are different kinds of time travel though like here which is the more likely case for Attack on Titan Interesting... you are talking about the 1st right? Because the other 2 don't seem likely. But my point still stands, there is no evidence of fixed timeline, Eren never tried to save his mother. And even *if* it was fixed timeline, then there will be more controversies. 1. Why Eren need to manipulate his father if the outcome is fixed? 2. What about "the first Eren" in the timeline? The Eren which can't see the future because there is no future yet. I just need a proper explanation from the author. yes im talking about the first the fixed timeline aka deterministic universe well there are hints like the PATHS makes you experience the past and present and future as ONE (or fixed timeline in other words) according to Zeke and Eren |
deg said: lKingDGl said: Interesting... you are talking about the 1st right? Because the other 2 don't seem likely. But my point still stands, there is no evidence of fixed timeline, Eren never tried to save his mother. And even *if* it was fixed timeline, then there will be more controversies. 1. Why Eren need to manipulate his father if the outcome is fixed? 2. What about "the first Eren" in the timeline? The Eren which can't see the future because there is no future yet. I just need a proper explanation from the author. yes im talking about the first the fixed timeline aka deterministic universe well there are hints like the PATHS makes you experience the past and present and future as ONE (or fixed timeline in other words) according to Zeke and Eren Yes, I'm aware of paths. But still it is not a proper explanation, I still haven't seen Eren tried to change something. At least that Hitler example tried to change the baby. |
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| Rather than the whole timeline being fixed, I thinks things work much better if Eldians have fixed life spans dictated by the coordinate. The events of the timeline can be altered, but not when Eldians will die, as long as the coordinate remains active. It's why Eren says "it's wasn't time for Bertholdt to die yet", a timeline in which Bertholdt died at that moment was not allowed by the coordinate, so he had no choice but to manipulate Dyna towards his mom. On the same breath, Eren's mom was always destined to die at that point anyway, it was only a matter of how she died, but she had to die in that specific way for the current timeline to be forged. Eren wanted for Armin and Mikasa to live long lives, but he probably saw that the coordinate didn't want that for them. The only possibility for them to live long lives was for the coordinate to be dispelled, in other words, for the titan curse to be lifted. So Eren HAD to forge a timeline in which Mikasa would slay him in front of Ymir. Unfortunately, this is nothing more than some hardcore headcanon or interpretation, but I find that it makes a lot of things fit neatly. |
HyperLJan 14, 2022 10:56 AM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| also ive been thinking this more and it seems obvious enough with the new OP and ED one of the main theme of Attack on Titan is that we are all slave to something and Eren is a slave for his love of Mikasa and his friends so thats why he could not complete the rumbling as well, if Ymir or the worm is really not the factor on why the rumbling did not go 100% world genocide |
HyperL said: Dina's mindless titan was one among many abnormal titans we've seen throughout the series, so its odd behavior―of not targeting a Titan shifter like Berthold―can be explained by just that; it was an irregular mindless titan. The smiling titan might as well still cling to Dina's dying wish to find Grisha again no matter what.Rather than the whole timeline being fixed, I thinks things work much better if Eldians have fixed life spans dictated by the coordinate. The events of the timeline can be altered, but not when Eldians will die, as long as the coordinate remains active. It's why Eren says "it's wasn't time for Bertholdt to die yet", a timeline in which Bertholdt died at that moment was not allowed by the coordinate, so he had no choice but to manipulate Dyna towards his mom. On the same breath, Eren's mom was always destined to die at that point anyway, it was only a matter of how she died, but she had to die in that specific way for the current timeline to be forged. Eren wanted for Armin and Mikasa to live long lives, but he probably saw that the coordinate didn't want that for them. The only possibility for them to live long lives was for the coordinate to be dispelled, in other words, for the titan curse to be lifted. So Eren HAD to forge a timeline in which Mikasa would slay him in front of Ymir. Unfortunately, this is nothing more than some hardcore headcanon or interpretation, but I find that it makes a lot of things fit neatly. Eren wasn't the one who directed it towards Carla nor did he need to. |
I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/ I'm level  on mal-badges. View my badges. |
| lol this ending will make you guess a lot for sure maybe Eren is only following the PATH made by Ymir who has plans for Mikasa its all for the choice of Mikasa in the end so thats why he cannot complete the rumbling so is Mikasa the one that can do a choice out of real free will? since their universe is a fixed timeline or deterministic universe where free will or freedom does not exist i hope the anime expand that ending more to tie more loose ends like this |
| I think a lot of people don't mind AoT being romance (me included). But the problem is Eren's can't even say it to Mikasa correctly (Like in marley's flashback), or even in the real world other than paths dream (but even in a dream it seems he couldn't confess it either). So, Eren ended being a simp because of that (And simping is one of the controversies). I wrote this because I just realized no one complaint about Falco's romance. But that just maybe because Falco is a chad. Even in desperate situation where he can become mindless titan any second, he still confess his love. |
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| Isayamas blog from 2016 relevant to Erens character https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/n6zphi/isayamas_blog_from_2016_relevant_to_erens/ |
lKingDGl said: deg said: there are different kinds of time travel though like here which is the more likely case for Attack on Titan Interesting... you are talking about the 1st right? Because the other 2 don't seem likely. But my point still stands, there is no evidence of fixed timeline, Eren never tried to save his mother. And even *if* it was fixed timeline, then there will be more controversies. 1. Why Eren need to manipulate his father if the outcome is fixed? 2. What about "the first Eren" in the timeline? The Eren which can't see the future because there is no future yet. I just need a proper explanation from the author. The AoT universe is deterministic. The first example used in that picture explaining Time Travel explains the Time Travel in AoT. Eren manipulated his father because that was what was supposed to happen. When Eren was a child, future Eren manipulated his father into killing and stealing the Founding and when Eren grew up, he simply carried out the same thing that had already happened. That is why there is no true freedom in AoT. And Eren could never achieve it. And there is no "first" Eren. The past, the present and the future happen at the same time and everyone just carries out their duty. |
troilus_05sJan 24, 2022 3:40 AM
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lKingDGl said: I think a lot of people don't mind AoT being romance (me included). But the problem is Eren's can't even say it to Mikasa correctly (Like in marley's flashback), or even in the real world other than paths dream (but even in a dream it seems he couldn't confess it either). So, Eren ended being a simp because of that (And simping is one of the controversies). I wrote this because I just realized no one complaint about Falco's romance. But that just maybe because Falco is a chad. Even in desperate situation where he can become mindless titan any second, he still confess his love. Eren didn't want to confess his love because he had seen the future memories at that point and he knew what was going to happen. So, he started to distance himself from his friends because the more he distanced himself, the less grief his death causes. Of course, Eren never wanted to do it. Hence, his breakdown in the final chapter. He didn't want to die but it was set in stone. AoT is a deterministic universe where the future has already happened and the characters just carry out their roles. Everyone is oblivious to this and think they have free will. Eren was the only one who knew what was going to happen and that he could do nothing to prevent it. |
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troilus_05s said: lKingDGl said: I think a lot of people don't mind AoT being romance (me included). But the problem is Eren's can't even say it to Mikasa correctly (Like in marley's flashback), or even in the real world other than paths dream (but even in a dream it seems he couldn't confess it either). So, Eren ended being a simp because of that (And simping is one of the controversies). I wrote this because I just realized no one complaint about Falco's romance. But that just maybe because Falco is a chad. Even in desperate situation where he can become mindless titan any second, he still confess his love. Eren didn't want to confess his love because he had seen the future memories at that point and he knew what was going to happen. So, he started to distance himself from his friends because the more he distanced himself, the less grief his death causes. Of course, Eren never wanted to do it. Hence, his breakdown in the final chapter. He didn't want to die but it was set in stone. AoT is a deterministic universe where the future has already happened and the characters just carry out their roles. Everyone is oblivious to this and think they have free will. Eren was the only one who knew what was going to happen and that he could do nothing to prevent it. Please stop this "deterministic world" thing. Eren NEVER tried to change anything even if he know the future so there is no evidence of deterministic. You watch jojo so you must know how deterministic world really is. Even if AoT is "deterministic", failing to ever tried to change the future is bad. Also about what you quote from me, yes eren will never wanted for his friends to grief more. But does Falco want the opposite? No, that's why Falco is a chad |
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lKingDGl said: troilus_05s said: Eren didn't want to confess his love because he had seen the future memories at that point and he knew what was going to happen. So, he started to distance himself from his friends because the more he distanced himself, the less grief his death causes. Of course, Eren never wanted to do it. Hence, his breakdown in the final chapter. He didn't want to die but it was set in stone. AoT is a deterministic universe where the future has already happened and the characters just carry out their roles. Everyone is oblivious to this and think they have free will. Eren was the only one who knew what was going to happen and that he could do nothing to prevent it. Please stop this "deterministic world" thing. Eren NEVER tried to change anything even if he know the future so there is no evidence of deterministic. You watch jojo so you must know how deterministic world really is. Even if AoT is "deterministic", failing to ever tried to change the future is bad. Also about what you quote from me, yes eren will never wanted for his friends to grief more. But does Falco want the opposite? No, that's why Falco is a chad Maybe Eren did try to change and he understood he can't? I agree that there should have been some scenes with Eren trying to change, but that doesn't change the fact that AoT's Universe is deterministic. The way Eren manipulates his father is clear proof that AoT follows a Fixed Time Travel Approach. Eren smiles after he is told that Sasha has died which is proof that Eren knows he can't change the future. This means he has atleast tried to change it but failed and understood that the future is really unchangeable. |
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troilus_05s said: lKingDGl said: Please stop this "deterministic world" thing. Eren NEVER tried to change anything even if he know the future so there is no evidence of deterministic. You watch jojo so you must know how deterministic world really is. Even if AoT is "deterministic", failing to ever tried to change the future is bad. Also about what you quote from me, yes eren will never wanted for his friends to grief more. But does Falco want the opposite? No, that's why Falco is a chad Maybe Eren did try to change and he understood he can't? I agree that there should have been some scenes with Eren trying to change, but that doesn't change the fact that AoT's Universe is deterministic. The way Eren manipulates his father is clear proof that AoT follows a Fixed Time Travel Approach. Eren smiles after he is told that Sasha has died which is proof that Eren knows he can't change the future. This means he has atleast tried to change it but failed and understood that the future is really unchangeable. ok stop with "maybe'. And no, providing details of what eren tried to change, not changing any fact, but it relieve a lot of controversies. Also people trying so much to defend "deterministic world". But even fixed timeline CAN be changed you know. Hitler example from above messages. Sure there will be a baby that will become hitler. BUT, e.g. we can change that baby appearance. Like if we change the baby to chinese then there will be chinese hitler because DNA can't be changed, also the fact that the baby changed is what change fixed timeline too. Example from what Eren SHOULD have do : Change his mother to someone else so it still deterministic that someone would be eaten by Dina, but it's not his mother, same like that hitler example. |
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lKingDGl said: troilus_05s said: Maybe Eren did try to change and he understood he can't? I agree that there should have been some scenes with Eren trying to change, but that doesn't change the fact that AoT's Universe is deterministic. The way Eren manipulates his father is clear proof that AoT follows a Fixed Time Travel Approach. Eren smiles after he is told that Sasha has died which is proof that Eren knows he can't change the future. This means he has atleast tried to change it but failed and understood that the future is really unchangeable. ok stop with "maybe'. And no, providing details of what eren tried to change, not changing any fact, but it relieve a lot of controversies. Also people trying so much to defend "deterministic world". But even fixed timeline CAN be changed you know. Hitler example from above messages. Sure there will be a baby that will become hitler. BUT, e.g. we can change that baby appearance. Like if we change the baby to chinese then there will be chinese hitler because DNA can't be changed, also the fact that the baby changed is what change fixed timeline too. Example from what Eren SHOULD have do : Change his mother to someone else so it still deterministic that someone would be eaten by Dina, but it's not his mother, same like that hitler example. The Hitler example isn't a good example of a Deterministic Universe. A deterministic universe is something like JoJo or Harry Potter. It is fated to happen. And I only said "maybe" once and there is proof for that "maybe". Deterministic Universes cannot be changed at all. And if we still aren't on the same page, let's stop this discussion. |
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troilus_05s said: lKingDGl said: ok stop with "maybe'. And no, providing details of what eren tried to change, not changing any fact, but it relieve a lot of controversies. Also people trying so much to defend "deterministic world". But even fixed timeline CAN be changed you know. Hitler example from above messages. Sure there will be a baby that will become hitler. BUT, e.g. we can change that baby appearance. Like if we change the baby to chinese then there will be chinese hitler because DNA can't be changed, also the fact that the baby changed is what change fixed timeline too. Example from what Eren SHOULD have do : Change his mother to someone else so it still deterministic that someone would be eaten by Dina, but it's not his mother, same like that hitler example. The Hitler example isn't a good example of a Deterministic Universe. A deterministic universe is something like JoJo or Harry Potter. It is fated to happen. And I only said "maybe" once and there is proof for that "maybe". Deterministic Universes cannot be changed at all. And if we still aren't on the same page, let's stop this discussion. Yes we still aren't on the same page, but it is up to me if I want to continue this. I agree jojo is deterministic, and it is explained really good why it is deterministic not like aot. But, if hitler example not a good example, then i don't know anymore, because i have seen some people use that to explain fixed timeline in their argument. In terms of physics's theory, that is great. Also, even if jojo is your good example of deterministic universe, why some events can still be changed?. Yes there are deterministic things in jojo, but also a LOT of undeterministic things, i can't spoil jojo here but you should know, and I'm NOT talking about the changed outcome from a fight but the progress to it, and that is the undeterministic. That undeterministic things is what I seek in aot yes, eren smile after sasha dead, but why is it a proof? have you seen the before-after from eren's action that sasha still dead? no. |
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Jabungus said: lKingDGl said: Please stop this "deterministic world" thing. Eren NEVER tried to change anything even if he know the future so there is no evidence of deterministic. You watch jojo so you must know how deterministic world really is. Even if AoT is "deterministic", failing to ever tried to change the future is bad. Eren wanted this future, he wanted to do the rumbling, he says it himself multiple times, he didn't try to change anything because the future was exactly the result of Eren's own desires That makes Eren even worse in my eyes. But at least that kinda explain why he didn't try to save anyone. |
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| I really don’t like how they’re skipping 123. Arguably one of the most important chapters of the story. It was placed perfectly in my opinion. I guess it will be at the start of this supposed movie? |
Just_Away said: I personally believe they'll do it after 129 and before 130.I really don’t like how they’re skipping 123. Arguably one of the most important chapters of the story. It was placed perfectly in my opinion. I guess it will be at the start of this supposed movie? |
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Just_Away said: I really don’t like how they’re skipping 123. Arguably one of the most important chapters of the story. It was placed perfectly in my opinion. I guess it will be at the start of this supposed movie? They will adapt it with 130 but I agree, it was placed perfectly. |
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| Why did Grisha inject Eren if he asked Zeke to stop him? |
| Has there been any news regarding the English dub for AOT Final part 2? I havent been able to find anything from Toonami or Funimation or any news. I know last year after 4-5 episodes came out, thats when Toonami first aired episode 1 English dub I watch AOT english dub. |
ooo333 said: Has there been any news regarding the English dub for AOT Final part 2? I havent been able to find anything from Toonami or Funimation or any news. I know last year after 4-5 episodes came out, thats when Toonami first aired episode 1 English dub I watch AOT english dub. No official information but based on the previous seasons, it should start airing this week or the next. |
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Isuru_Chamikara said: I will love one episode ova but didn't movie will make it more rushed?Imo the ending we got is like the only logical conclusion but it was rushed badly executed and had awful dialogue. But hopefully the anime will improve some bits. And getting a movie is better in every aspect as well. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
Just_Away said: Why did Grisha inject Eren if he asked Zeke to stop him? Eren just manipulated Grisha into giving him the injection the same way as we saw in the latest ep. ooo333 said: Has there been any news regarding the English dub for AOT Final part 2? I havent been able to find anything from Toonami or Funimation or any news. I know last year after 4-5 episodes came out, thats when Toonami first aired episode 1 English dub I watch AOT english dub. English dub is premiering Feb 13, when ep6 of the sub gets released. |
I_Am_FreeballingFeb 4, 2022 1:18 PM
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| I had 9 notifs of quoted replies which were deleted. I don't know which thread it was now so if bums wanted to fight here I am. |
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MAQS said: Anyone Knows what happened to Paolo on Twitter? He is the guy who leaked the info that this part was 12 ep long and will end on ch 131. He closes his account every once in a while. Especially when it gets hectic. |
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I actually just checked now and he's reactivated. |
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| spoil me please since im too lazy to re-read the manga again who is this again?  |
degFeb 27, 2022 12:00 PM
FDB96 said: It's Shadis, he mentions it when he was talking to Magath before they blow up the Marleyan cruiser. yep thanks for that |
| I was wondering, Mappa never said that its going to be only 12 Episodes. I bet they are going to announce that Final Season Part 2 will feature 16 Episodes on March 27th, which coincidentally would fit the amount of chapters left. |
| BD release date for part 2 confirmed Attack on Titan The Final Season Part 2 - Blu-Ray Volume Release Dates Volume 1 - July 20th, 2022 Volume 2 - August 17th, 2022 https://twitter.com/anime_shingeki/status/1508013458691792901 |
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