LogicalInjustice said: Not everyone prefers to watch a power MC, as there is no suspense in their fights or actions; however, things change when there are actual stakes OP in the sense of being perfect always needs an external stimulus for the fight or plot to make sense. Others may even call this lazy writing, because it lacks the portrayal of complex elements to add a more enriching experience to the audience. Some people may prefer not watch series in action anime where power makes a character unable to lose a fight. To them, it is too predictable and generic. It is also not as suspenseful as the MC being imperfect and doing the same thing, which shows more quality character development. That's seems like quite a shallow view on things, as shallow as the usual 'joyful character=good character'. Disregarding a character because of its power is a mistake. A huge amount of power on a single person is interesting, how it affects them, how they use it and for what do they use it. Being so above everyone do separate you from them, right? What does it mean to be strong? What the meaning of strenght? What does it feels like? What do you become like? I quite like Tatsuya's status, a kid made into a tamed warmachine, a huge power in a quite empty shell, i'm curious to know how he will developp in the futur, if he will ever become human. Same for Saitama i'm curious to see how everything will developp. i also like Layfon, a Tatsuya, kind, doesn't show off, doesn't look down on people, lacking purpose in life, not knowing what to do with his powers and why he should even use them, someone who have the power to do anything but have no desire for anything, except for simpliciity but being strong isn't simple. Stark from Bleach, Saitama, Anshin'in, Beerus are example of absolute strenght bringing misery and loneliness, when nothing no longer hold any meaning or value. Aizen power brought him loneliness and made him felt really special to himself. Btw one sided Bleach fights are the bests. Chiffon is of the ones who sports responsability and duty because of her powers. TTGL: Lord genom OPness? Which he used to restrain everyone? The 'relationship' a op character has with his strenght, how it affects them and how they deal with it can be interesting. Put a gun in someone hands and you will see what kind of person he is. Same goes for political and financial power. |
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Lap1 said: LogicalInjustice said: Not everyone prefers to watch a power MC, as there is no suspense in their fights or actions; however, things change when there are actual stakes OP in the sense of being perfect always needs an external stimulus for the fight or plot to make sense. Others may even call this lazy writing, because it lacks the portrayal of complex elements to add a more enriching experience to the audience. Some people may prefer not watch series in action anime where power makes a character unable to lose a fight. To them, it is too predictable and generic. It is also not as suspenseful as the MC being imperfect and doing the same thing, which shows more quality character development. That's seems like quite a shallow view on things, as shallow as the usual 'joyful character=good character'. Disregarding a character because of its power is a mistake. A huge amount of power on a single person is interesting, how it affects them, how they use it and for what do they use it. Being so above everyone do separate you from them, right? What does it mean to be strong? What the meaning of strenght? What does it feels like? What do you become like? I quite like Tatsuya's status, a kid made into a tamed warmachine, a huge power in a quite empty shell, i'm curious to know how he will developp in the futur, if he will ever become human. Same for Saitama i'm curious to see how everything will developp. i also like Layfon, a Tatsuya, kind, doesn't show off, doesn't look down on people, lacking purpose in life, not knowing what to do with his powers and why he should even use them, someone who have the power to do anything but have no desire for anything, except for simpliciity but being strong isn't simple. Stark from Bleach, Saitama, Anshin'in, Beerus are example of absolute strenght bringing misery and loneliness, when nothing no longer hold any meaning or value. Aizen power brought him loneliness and made him felt really special to himself. Btw one sided Bleach fights are the bests. Chiffon is of the ones who sports responsability and duty because of her powers. TTGL: Lord genom OPness? Which he used to restrain everyone? The 'relationship' a op character has with his strenght, how it affects them and how they deal with it can be interesting. Put a gun in someone hands and you will see what kind of person he is. Same goes for political and financial power. More over analysis. You listed OP character, not unstoppable characters. Aizen was beatable, but he was powerful. Please use a more relative character if you going to quote me to make a point like One Punch Man etc |
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu    |
| I much rather characters like Kagura or Kazuma than Levi or Kirito. |
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flannan said: I like it when the characters are being perfect. Such a nice change from all those badly flawed people. The problem many people have with perfect characters like Tatsuya and Kirito is there's nothing memorable or special about them other than the fact that they beat the s**t out of everyone. I prefer a weak but 3-dimensional character like Kylo Ren rather than a badass 1-dimensional character like Tatsuya because at least I can still find myself relate to a character like Kylo Ren. Tatsuya at the other hand is unrelatable because he's a badass, but the audiences isn't. |
| Perfect characters are basically irritating especially to the point wherein they are criticizing themselves. -that's why I hate them! |
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| Shiba Tatsuya aka Onii-sama, please allow me to tell you of his godliness. 1. Kira once wrote Onii-sama's name on the Death Note, 60 seconds later Kira died. 2. Onii-sama hacked SAO from inside and created a logout button in less than a second. 3. Onii-sama glared at the Titans and they all evaporated. 4. Lelouch used Geass on Onii-sama, a few seconds later Lelouch fell under Onii-sama's control. 5. Onii-sama overthrew the Sibyl System. 6. Onii-sama once made a contract with Kyubey, but it had no effect. 7. Onii-sama tampered with time, SERN later came to him and apologized. 8. Onii-sama created a Philosopher's Stone from air. 9. Onii-sama brought Menma back to life. 10. Onii-sama grew back Saitama's hair. 11. Onii-sama uses the Holy Grail as a drinking cup. 12. A Parasyte entered Onii-sama's brain, in mere sceonds it was burned to a crisp. 13. A ghoul tried to eat Onii-sama, that was just the stupidest mistake anyone has ever seen. 14. A zombie once bit Onii-sama, it later reverted back into a human. 15. Onii-sama gets more girls than Makoto. The list goes on and on so it would take me a decade to finish it so here are just some of the godliness of Onii-sama. |
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ya_hallo said: Shiba Tatsuya aka Onii-sama, please allow me to tell you of his godliness. 1. Kira once wrote Onii-sama's name on the Death Note, 60 seconds later Kira died. 2. Onii-sama hacked SAO from inside and created a logout button in less than a second. 3. Onii-sama glared at the Titans and they all evaporated. 4. Lelouch used Geass on Onii-sama, a few seconds later Lelouch fell under Onii-sama's control. 5. Onii-sama overthrew the Sibyl System. 6. Onii-sama once made a contract with Kyubey, but it had no effect. 7. Onii-sama tampered with time, SERN later came to him and apologized. 8. Onii-sama created a Philosopher's Stone from air. 9. Onii-sama brought Menma back to life. 10. Onii-sama grew back Saitama's hair. 11. Onii-sama uses the Holy Grail as a drinking cup. 12. A Parasyte entered Onii-sama's brain, in mere sceonds it was burned to a crisp. 13. A ghoul tried to eat Onii-sama, that was just the stupidest mistake anyone has ever seen. 14. A zombie once bit Onii-sama, it later reverted back into a human. 15. Onii-sama gets more girls than Makoto. The list goes on and on so it would take me a decade to finish it so here are just some of the godliness of Onii-sama. What's next *sarcasm*? 16. Onii-Sama defeat Doomsday without using any Kryptonite? 17. Darth Vader fights Onii-Sama, Darth Vader later defeated by Onii-Sama with only using fists? 18. A lightsaber can't harm Onii-Sama or cut through his body? 19. Galactus attack Earth, but Onii-Sama defeats him only using his magic? 20. Onii-Sama fight Zeus and Odin, and he defeats both Zeus and Odin? |
YellowCorvette said: flannan said: I like it when the characters are being perfect. Such a nice change from all those badly flawed people. The problem many people have with perfect characters like Tatsuya and Kirito is there's nothing memorable or special about them other than the fact that they beat the s**t out of everyone. I prefer a weak but 3-dimensional character like Kylo Ren rather than a badass 1-dimensional character like Tatsuya because at least I can still find myself relate to a character like Kylo Ren. Tatsuya at the other hand is unrelatable because he's a badass, but the audiences isn't. You know, Kirito is nowhere near Tatsuya's level in power. In fact, Kirito is about as powerful as any other action anime protagonist - damn strong for a single person, but far from invincible. Kirito isn't perfect either. 1) Kirito is a showoff. He is known to do a lot of things just to look cool. 2) Kirito is prone to trying to solve every problem with swordsmanship. He's the guy to bring a sword to a gunfight. He's the guy to try to assault the World Tree instead of calling the police. 3) Kirito is notably bad at interacting with other people. Among other things. 4) Kirito is a fan of games. He is prone to doing not what is right, but what benefits games. But the thing I can't agree the most is that there is nothing memorable or special about Kirito. He is, in fact, memorable for his views on ethics of MMORPGs and other kinds of virtual reality. YellowCorvette said: Tatsuya at the other hand is unrelatable because he's a badass, but the audiences isn't. You should play more computer games. Preferably on easy difficulty. They're good for your self-esteem. |
ya_hallo said: In that circunstances, I feel obligated to say a short, but true, thing:Shiba Tatsuya aka Onii-sama, please allow me to tell you of his godliness. 1. Kira once wrote Onii-sama's name on the Death Note, 60 seconds later Kira died. 2. Onii-sama hacked SAO from inside and created a logout button in less than a second. 3. Onii-sama glared at the Titans and they all evaporated. 4. Lelouch used Geass on Onii-sama, a few seconds later Lelouch fell under Onii-sama's control. 5. Onii-sama overthrew the Sibyl System. 6. Onii-sama once made a contract with Kyubey, but it had no effect. 7. Onii-sama tampered with time, SERN later came to him and apologized. 8. Onii-sama created a Philosopher's Stone from air. 9. Onii-sama brought Menma back to life. 10. Onii-sama grew back Saitama's hair. 11. Onii-sama uses the Holy Grail as a drinking cup. 12. A Parasyte entered Onii-sama's brain, in mere sceonds it was burned to a crisp. 13. A ghoul tried to eat Onii-sama, that was just the stupidest mistake anyone has ever seen. 14. A zombie once bit Onii-sama, it later reverted back into a human. 15. Onii-sama gets more girls than Makoto. The list goes on and on so it would take me a decade to finish it so here are just some of the godliness of Onii-sama. Sasuga, Onii-sama. |
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LogicalInjustice said: flannan said: You must be very young. Of course the main characters are going to win in all but the most bleak and grimdark anime! Main characters always win. Relax and look forward to the way they are going to win. You must be very immature. This is in regards to both anime and other mediums. Not everyone prefers to watch a power MC, as there is no suspense in their fights or actions; however, things change when there are actual stakes OP in the sense of being perfect always needs an external stimulus for the fight or plot to make sense. Others may even call this lazy writing, because it lacks the portrayal of complex elements to add a more enriching experience to the audience. Some people may prefer not watch series in action anime where power makes a character unable to lose a fight. To them, it is too predictable and generic. It is also not as suspenseful as the MC being imperfect and doing the same thing, which shows more quality character development. Yeah, I am immature. People of my age should be spending time with their wife and children, not on anime forums. So what? Sure, not everyone prefers the kind of characters who are overpowered. But it does not mean that chances of a protagonist losing depend on his/her power level. LogicalInjustice said: With powerful but inhuman characters like Tatsuya, Alucard and Overlord, the question is not "will they win", but what "will happen to other people around them?" or "will humanity lose?". Tatsuya is really good at providing moments of kindness and moments of fury, making for a pretty interesting dynamic. You have no idea how many people view this as cliche. By design, it ends up pissing people off or having to redirect something else to look forward to. Self-proclaimed critics always keep viewing things as cliche. They lack the wisdom to see these things are inevitable. "Something else to look forward to"? Do you usually look forward to the protagonist losing? I sure don't. Even before I understood that protagonists always win, I had no reason to look forward to protagonist losing. Well, if you really want that, there is some hentai like that. LogicalInjustice said: Even if the MC isn't very powerful, and often loses his battles at first, he still wins, because the author makes a way for him to win. And we can't be critical of that? No one is defending a character who is weak yet somehow "always wins". Plot armor is bad design and fans call it out, including me. Do you understand that the only alternative is a character who is too strong to make the fights interesting? LogicalInjustice said: You are in the minority to believe that people would prefer a character like Tatsuya from Mahouka Koukou! compared to one that actually invests writing into the anime gradually or with complexity. This sentence makes no sense. 0) Characters don't invest writing. Authors do. 1) Tatsuya is developed gradually. While he has all those nifty powers from the start, we learn about them as the story progresses. 2) Tatsuya has complexity. Goals, motivations, connections, obligations, complicated fighting style designed to play to his strengths and avoid his weaknesses... he has all of that. And these things are often in conflict. |
| Perfect mary-sue/gary-stu characters without any flaws are boring. Conflict and tension is what drives most stories. Since every conflict they're in (if at all) pretty much always end up going in their favor, there's not much tension involved, so I find it difficult to get emotionally invested in these characters. |
flannan said: But the thing I can't agree the most is that there is nothing memorable or special about Kirito. He is, in fact, memorable for his views on ethics of MMORPGs and other kinds of virtual reality. But here's another thing. This only makes Kirito memorable in among gamers, but what about the audiences that are not a gamer? People that didn't play MMORPGs or virtual reality games will have difficult time to relate to Kirito from views of MMORPGs because they didn't even know what the hell is Kirito talking about and they didn't even interested to find out because this isn't the thing they are interested in. flannan said: You should play more computer games. Preferably on easy difficulty. They're good for your self-esteem. Here's another thing. You may be a badass when you're playing a computer game, but in real life? This is why I think many badass character is overrated, because people can't really relate with a badass and most of us aren't a badass in real life. As a teenager, I always imagined that I'll be a Jedi if I stepped into the world of Star Wars, but as I grow older I realized that if I even stepped into the world of Star Wars, I'll be more like those faceless stormtroopers or random rebel soldier than someone like Luke Skywalker, Yoda, or Han Solo. Kirito is only a wish-fullfilment character which even the author of the SAO admits that he writes the story at the beginning only to imagine how he'll turn out if he was a high-leveled gamer. That's what makes people dislike Kirito in general. |
YellowCorvette said: flannan said: But the thing I can't agree the most is that there is nothing memorable or special about Kirito. He is, in fact, memorable for his views on ethics of MMORPGs and other kinds of virtual reality. But here's another thing. This only makes Kirito memorable in among gamers, but what about the audiences that are not a gamer? People that didn't play MMORPGs or virtual reality games will have difficult time to relate to Kirito from views of MMORPGs because they didn't even know what the hell is Kirito talking about and they didn't even interested to find out because this isn't the thing they are interested in. 1) I don't play MMORPGs. But I do visit forums. Worked for me. 2) SAO is an anime about MMORPGs. People who aren't aware of the genre would inevitably miss some content, just like people who don't like tanks would miss a lot in Girls und Panzer. YellowCorvette said: flannan said: You should play more computer games. Preferably on easy difficulty. They're good for your self-esteem. Here's another thing. You may be a badass when you're playing a computer game, but in real life? This is why I think many badass character is overrated, because people can't really relate with a badass and most of us aren't a badass in real life. As a teenager, I always imagined that I'll be a Jedi if I stepped into the world of Star Wars, but as I grow older I realized that if I even stepped into the world of Star Wars, I'll be more like those faceless stormtroopers or random rebel soldier than someone like Luke Skywalker, Yoda, or Han Solo. Reality's hold on you has gotten too strong. Seek help, for it's dangerous. Try overdosing on escapism for starters. YellowCorvette said: Kirito is only a wish-fullfilment character which even the author of the SAO admits that he writes the story at the beginning only to imagine how he'll turn out if he was a high-leveled gamer. That's what makes people dislike Kirito in general. So what? He does a good job at being SAO's protagonist. |
| Well for starters, Tatsuya is not perfect. His standard magic skills are below par, his strong emotions and urges have been erased making him very flawed as a human being, due to this he has an inferiority complex when it comes to mundane things that the average person can handle, and has been described as mundane and average in appearance. Tatsuya does have character development. As the series goes on, he generally becomes kinder and shows more humane emotions towards others besides his sister and develops close relationships with others that he really hasn't been able to develop before. Tatsuya has complexity. From his wiki page http://mahouka-koukou-no-rettousei.wikia.com/wiki/Shiba_Tatsuya About him being OP. His character is a good representation of both the good and the bad of having to much strength. The good, he can protect the people he cares about and be respected and admired by the people close to him. The bad, he was essentially stripped of a part of his soul as a human, has his freedom restricted, and has his fate as a humanoid weapon set. Plus, you can't say he wins every fight without effort. For one his full might is almost always restricted, in fact as of 20 volumes, he's only been shown to use his full might twice and both were pretty early in the series, so he doesn't always win effortlessly and the anime shown you all at least one battle that was a clear struggle for him(his battle with Masaki in the monolith code finals) and later in the series(where the anime didn't cover) he gets into a fair share of tough battles. Mahouka also isn't heavily reliant on the battles shaping the tension of the story, because the series is also big on politics and the social side of things and more times than not that's where the tension lies deepest, which balances things out. Lastly, I may hold certain biases, because Tatsuya is my favorite character. However, I'd ask if you won't read the source material, then at least do research on his character, opposed to making snap judgments of his character based on an anime adaptation that has been criticized by the fans for being a sub-par adaptation, largely due to leaving out characterization and depth. |
My Queens  |
| Sakamoto desu ga is the epitome of mary sue anime. And it makes sense. |
Doctors want to check me  Poke me and dissect me What do they expect? Feelings from a wind-up toy? I don't think so |
LogicalInjustice said: More over analysis. You listed OP character, not unstoppable characters. Aizen was beatable, but he was powerful. Please use a more relative character if you going to quote me to make a point like One Punch Man etc  Well so you only have a problem with unstoppable characters? You're not talking about the fact that shonen mc cannot died, aren't you? Who have you a problem with? alucard? He's within a fun show. Saitama? Likewise, his unstoppability is even directly questioned since it anesthetizes him. Tastuya? His character has worth. I have empathy and compassion for him. If you're talking about those mc from asterixis, hundred, bahamut blahblah, yeah you right on those, their power have no significativity for anything. Your problem is only about plot armored mc right? Otherwise, strong and weak characters' stories are differents, you may prefer seeing a progression, a step by step grow of a character, but for a strong character the stakes are often different and elsewhere, like i said an very strong character can bring about questions about power, powerful people have their problems too. YellowCorvette said: Here's another thing. You may be a badass when you're playing a computer game, but in real life? This is why I think many badass character is overrated, because people can't really relate with a badass and most of us aren't a badass in real life. As a teenager, I always imagined that I'll be a Jedi if I stepped into the world of Star Wars, but as I grow older I realized that if I even stepped into the world of Star Wars, I'll be more like those faceless stormtroopers or random rebel soldier than someone like Luke Skywalker, Yoda, or Han Solo. Good post. |
Lap1Jun 30, 2016 11:03 AM
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Snappynator said: lol, Sakamoto is just COOL XD When done for comedy relief (as in Sakamoto desu ga) it's actually really hilarious and adds to the overall silly ton of the show. But in a show like Mahouka, that tries to be serious, it can be annoying and boring to see the MC being to OP to the point he doesn't see have any conflicts. It relaly depends on the show and it's purpose. Really recommend to anybody that hasn't seen it  |
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| Ah yes, this reminds me of a tale As a character that is strong. No, wait. As a legendary figure whose has protected and conquered many lands uncontested. what matters not is one's strength, but how the such strength is used. Although one may not be engaged to see a battle by which the outcome is most certainly apparent, one must follow their tale as they are not perfect in mind and soul, unlike a principled being of my refined caliber. |
 "As someone who is unaware of the vital role that singing has played in the cultural history of mankind, you are in no position to question me. Ah yes, that reminds me of a song I wrote. The best song that has ever been written. A song so marvelous, mere listening to it shall forever change one's outlook on life. I shall sing it and you will listen. ""♫ Excalibur! Excalibur! From United Kingdom! I'm looking for heaven! I'm going to California! ♫" |
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