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| The very notion that "men cannot experience sexism" creates a paradoxon within feminism itself, which supposedly has the goal to make women have the same rights as men. Since from judicary perspective that has already long been reached, the only thing that remains is the social perspective of individuals. So let's approach this from a logical perspective where we assume that "men cannot experience sexism" (socially) is part of the ideology of femnism: Now what needs to be the situation where you could actually make the claim that "men cannot experience sexism" from a social point of view? Of course that requires that individuals who are men are in ANY and ALL situations socially superior to ANY and ALL women that exist in the same society. In other words male supremacy has to be an absolute. It has to be as absolute just like a scientific law in physics is. Untouchable, unchangeable, and above all: NO EXCPECTIONS. What does that tell us? It tells us that under these circumstances anything feminism does is pointless. It essentially TELLS WOMEN that they are, infact, "inferior beings" compared to men and cannot do anything to change it, because even the most tiny actual change would overthrow the notion that men cannot experience sexism, which with feminists still claiming the notion of men being unable to experience sexism didn't seem to have happened, which mean nothing femnists ever did changed anything. Under these circumstances feminism would be obsolete since they appearently cannot do anything to reach their goal at all due to part of it's own ideology. That is a paradox. In other words, the ideology of femnism and the notion that "men cannot experience sexism" are contradicting each other. You cannot claim to believe both to be true at the same time. If you do you are objectively wrong before any discussion even starts. |
Grey-ZoneJun 3, 2016 7:25 PM
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Sun-Hae said: Yep. plus they’re pretty likely to experience sexism anywhere where women are the majority.. which I’ve witnessed quite a few times Being in a majority gives you power, so that makes sense. I expect such a situation to devolve into like my military base - the sexy men get uplifted while all the rest are treated like trash. |
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| Yes. You should stop reading SJW bullshit about how men cannot experience any form of sexism and whatever. People whom claim any form of discrimination can only be perpetrated by a majority or whatever, has a victim complex and has an ill ideology. |
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-Maz said: TheBrainintheJar said: Actually, yes, they do exist. I have met some people who said you can't be sexist towards men since 'sexism is must be institutional' or something. That's weird, since the laws aren't actually sexist. Most forms of discrimination in the Western world are cultural, not legal. That's just...Wow. I hope I never have the misfortune to come across such cretins. I had little idea what anyone was saying so I googled it https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/3kg2kj/institutional_sexism_against_men_does_it_exist_or/cuxcx95 So the phrasing should probably(apparently) be - 'institutional sexism can't be against (White?) men". Which is technically, *not* saying "sexism can't be against men because it's institutional". |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| I'm a feminist and I believe that it's extremely rude and ignorant to say "Don't read feminist articles, don't believe what feminists say". They are extreme feminists and they are ruining the image of feminism. ANYONE WHO BELIEVES MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD BE EQUAL ARE FEMINISTS. Please don't confuse the extremists with feminism. Sexism can be experienced by any gender. If you catcall a boy walking in the streets, that's wrong. If you oversexualize a man worker and slap his ass at work, that's sexist. So definitely. Shame it exists. |
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Welshcake said: I'm a feminist and I believe that it's extremely rude and ignorant to say "Don't read feminist articles, don't believe what feminists say". They are extreme feminists and they are ruining the image of feminism. ANYONE WHO BELIEVES MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD BE EQUAL ARE FEMINISTS. Please don't confuse the extremists with feminism. Sexism can be experienced by any gender. If you catcall a boy walking in the streets, that's wrong. If you oversexualize a man worker and slap his ass at work, that's sexist. So definitely. Shame it exists. Too bad con artists like Anita Sarkeesian get more attention than people who actually fit the definition of feminism like Christina Hoff Sommers. And because the ones who get the most attention are the ones who "brand" the movement, they are the ones who define it. Just like Hitler "stole" the svastica from east Asian people away and corrupted its symbolism in the eyes of people. The original meaning of svasticas still exist, but most people associate it with nazis now... Not that I agree with this rebranding, but it's simply how it is. |
Grey-ZoneJun 4, 2016 5:49 AM
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Grey-Zone said: Welshcake said: I'm a feminist and I believe that it's extremely rude and ignorant to say "Don't read feminist articles, don't believe what feminists say". They are extreme feminists and they are ruining the image of feminism. ANYONE WHO BELIEVES MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD BE EQUAL ARE FEMINISTS. Please don't confuse the extremists with feminism. Sexism can be experienced by any gender. If you catcall a boy walking in the streets, that's wrong. If you oversexualize a man worker and slap his ass at work, that's sexist. So definitely. Shame it exists. Too bad con artists like Anita Sarkeesian get more attention than people who actually fit the definition of feminism like Christina Hoff Sommers. And because the ones who get the most attention are the ones who "brand" the movement, they are the ones who define it. Just like Hitler "stole" the svastica from east Asian people away and corrupted its symbolism in the eyes of people. The original meaning of svasticas still exist, but most people associate it with nazis now... Not that I agree with this rebranding, but it's simply how it is. It's different though, because celebs like Emma Watson, Angelina Jolie, Taylor Swift, Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Viola Davis, Nicki Minaj, Tom Hardy, Channing Tatum, Malala Yousafzai have stated that they are feminists many times. It's not like people are fighting for svastivas publicly :D These people were trying to expand feminism and make the goals of it real for years and not just those, with thousands more. If these people, who are anti, took one seminar or just attend to one class about feminism, or hell watch an informative video, they'd change their minds :D I think it's just people who's not informed enough rather branding something so innocent and turn it to something bad simply because it's just more interesting that way. So (not you), all those anti-feminists out there, there you go. |
WelshcakeJun 4, 2016 7:29 AM
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| People who still use feminism instead of egalitarianism make me giggle. Also there's been a lot of talk about the "wage-gap" in America lately. They're saying women only earn 60% of what men earn in the work place. Of course that's disgusting. |
 A pair of eyes appear disguised, ask for discord serverI take flight and stay high in paradise, With bad luck, snake eyes, a pair of dice. I'm paralyzed, she speaks twice, a pair of lies, It's parallel, apparent hell of parasites. |
| The femi-nazis don't understand the term gender equality the people who wrote the article believe gender equality is when they can be sexist to men and mistreat men because they are men. |
| Women are sometimes still discriminated against in a social manner, but I am not sure how one would change that... From a legal perspective though, women are equal to men already. Actually if you include things like "women quota" and gender-based "affimative action", it wouldn't be wrong to even say that women, from a legal perspective, got an advantage compared to men right now. So it really comes down to how individual men behave with women. But HOW are you going to change that? It's not a law that you can enforce. Things like "Affirmative Action" where women get an advantage just because they are women are actually the very things that can make men hate women, because they feel being discriminated against. Those men who got the short end of the stick due to affirmative action understandably will not be glad if some demagogue like Antita Sarkeesian screams "rape culture" all the time. Welshcake said: Grey-Zone said: Too bad con artists like Anita Sarkeesian get more attention than people who actually fit the definition of feminism like Christina Hoff Sommers. And because the ones who get the most attention are the ones who "brand" the movement, they are the ones who define it. Just like Hitler "stole" the svastica from east Asian people away and corrupted its symbolism in the eyes of people. The original meaning of svasticas still exist, but most people associate it with nazis now... Not that I agree with this rebranding, but it's simply how it is. It's different though, because celebs like Emma Watson, Angelina Jolie, Taylor Swift, Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Viola Davis, Nicki Minaj, Tom Hardy, Channing Tatum, Malala Yousafzai have stated that they are feminists many times. It's not like people are fighting for svastivas publicly :D These people were trying to expand feminism and make the goals of it real for years and not just those, with thousands more. If these people, who are anti, took one seminar or just attend to one class about feminism, or hell watch an informative video, they'd change their minds :D I think it's just people who's not informed enough rather branding something so innocent and turn it to something bad simply because it's just more interesting that way. So (not you), all those anti-feminists out there, there you go. Sorry, but those people aren't the one got get listened to by officials. For example the UN rather likes to listen to the "feminazis" who want to censor video games, rather than listen to those who truly are being disavantaged. So when are feminist movements going to do something about women-oppressing nations like Saudi Arabia? Considering even Hillary Clinton who claims to be a "defender of women" gladly takes Saudi Arabia money contributions. |
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| Yes they can They are a gender Why is this even a damn question? |
| Ok OP.. I'll take the bait. Not only CAN men experience sexism but in America I can safely say that they are MORE LIKELY TO BE A VICTIM OF SEXISM. It's not even close.. men in America are discriminated against just because they're are men and people act like women are the victims. They aren't.. it's the opposite. This debate needs to be deaded |
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Grey-Zone said: Women are sometimes still discriminated against in a social manner, but I am not sure how one would change that... From a legal perspective though, women are equal to men already. Actually if you include things like "women quota" and gender-based "affimative action", it wouldn't be wrong to even say that women, from a legal perspective, got an advantage compared to men right now. So it really comes down to how individual men behave with women. But HOW are you going to change that? It's not a law that you can enforce. Things like "Affirmative Action" where women get an advantage just because they are women are actually the very things that can make men hate women, because they feel being discriminated against. Those men who got the short end of the stick due to affirmative action understandably will not be glad if some demagogue like Antita Sarkeesian screams "rape culture" all the time. Welshcake said: It's different though, because celebs like Emma Watson, Angelina Jolie, Taylor Swift, Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Viola Davis, Nicki Minaj, Tom Hardy, Channing Tatum, Malala Yousafzai have stated that they are feminists many times. It's not like people are fighting for svastivas publicly :D These people were trying to expand feminism and make the goals of it real for years and not just those, with thousands more. If these people, who are anti, took one seminar or just attend to one class about feminism, or hell watch an informative video, they'd change their minds :D I think it's just people who's not informed enough rather branding something so innocent and turn it to something bad simply because it's just more interesting that way. So (not you), all those anti-feminists out there, there you go. Sorry, but those people aren't the one got get listened to by officials. For example the UN rather likes to listen to the "feminazis" who want to censor video games, rather than listen to those who truly are being disavantaged. So when are feminist movements going to do something about women-oppressing nations like Saudi Arabia? Considering even Hillary Clinton who claims to be a "defender of women" gladly takes Saudi Arabia money contributions. Hillary Clinton isn't a good example of feminism. And did you know that women voted for the fist time thanks to the women's rights organizations (aka feminists aka Saudi Arabian suffragettes)? Manal Al-Sharif drove for the first time as a woman last year? Do you think it would've happen without the feminists' existence and without activists of Saudi Arabia? You do realize that suffragettes did the same thing right, they forced the government to acknowledge women. Rosa Parks was a feminist, they achieved their goals. Civil right movements are all the same, rather if it's for women, for black, for immigrants it doesn't matter. Do you realize how far women come just in 50 years? Would it happen if no one said anything? Do you know how common was rape and sexual assault before women started acting out? They (feminists) put a face on sexual harassment in 1991, Anita Hill. Those people, pop icons, can't make governments change their policies, it's the citizens of the countries who changes things and they did that, Americans did it, English did it, Saudi Arabian women did it and they will continue to do it. Those icons simply help to raise the awareness and help to get the word out, that's also activism as they are helping the cause. You can't say feminist movements aren't doing anything. It takes time, do you know how much Saudi Arabia values tradition? It's ruling with monarchy, one family rules everything. They do not have democracy, they don't have voices, they don't have economic rights YET they managed to gain right to vote and this is just the beginning. Feminism, women's rights movements aka human's rights movements because women are human,is only for improving the world that we currently live in and I can't see how it's projected as something BAD. **I also agree with you on women using "women card" and using rape as a weapon. Sadly, they do it. Hillary does it, she keeps on saying "White House needs a woman president." No, it needs a GOOD president. But in America has it better than Middle-East. So I hear people being against on feminism in my country too, Turkey where we have the bad deal. We don't have any equal pay legislation, women still does nothing when domestic abuse happens because they are too afraid and they still don't hold their economic independence. But feminist organizations constantly tries to help and educate these people to gain their freedom. I can't think of a world without these people, activists, volunteers then it would only go worse not better. |
WelshcakeJun 4, 2016 9:10 AM
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| That article is stupid. At point 5 she says discrimination is not sexism. But afaik sexism is discimination by gender/sex. It is sub-type of discrimination. And there are certain professions where men are discriminated against. Especially stuff that deals with children where mothers mainly want other females to to that stuff because they think of every guy as a potential pedophile. So: Yes, men can (and sometimes do) experience sexism. Just because women experience more sexism (and more often) does not mean men can't experience it. No further discussion needed. |
| @Welshcake What I mean is: All the projects for equal rights were successful in the "west" and it's great what they accomplished. When a project is finished a group either disperses or starts a new different project. But my point is there are still "left-overs" that persist that the current situation in the west somehow still isn't enough without being able to point to any concrete entity, which then ends up being the fictional entity of the "white patriarchy" and it's sadly those very people that get attention from the people with influence, like the UN. These people are also cowards, because they only cry sexism when the ones they attack are white male groups and individuals. They themselves let women rot in hell when a rapist happens to be a refugee (look how those feminazi reacted to what happened in Cologne). Those feminazi are completely overshadowing any efforts of "real" feminists. |
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| @Grey-Zone That is true and I believe that's because east is Muslim and values tradition more than anything really and sadly, we just don't have that fight in us enough. Hopefully we will become like west though, what they did and doing is admirable. And yes, when people cry sexism there is a male involved. And I was really sad that they made it sound like all refugees are rapists. But tbh, sexism happens by counter genders usually. Sad but true. |
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