[Update Jan 6] Forum: Minimum Character Counts & Quick Edit

"Yes, I make both, for people online and IRL."

Caelidesu said:
Conversations that drag on pointlessly and meander onto random topics aren't magically better than ones where dialogue is lucid and conclusions are quickly reached.

galimx said:

Well, you explain why you think both and compare them and add some other info or arguments. Maybe you ask a question back or set some arguments so the discussion can continue or re-evaluate. I mean, this is how good forums work. But this probably wont work on MAL, because the users are mostly teens and honestly this is an anime forum, people wont even try, I guess.

Ratohnhaketon said:
And that literally took 20 seconds to type.

galimx said:
If someone irl asks you something then you answer yes/no and after that you are quiet and wait for next question

If someone irl asks you something then you answer yes/no and after that you are quiet and wait for next question or you ask/say something back and try to form a discussion?

Mayuka said:
Fair point, but IRL you're TRYING to make a conversation last just to pass time. On a thread, you're discussing a specific topic to get to an answer. MAL mods discourage chit chat and "chat threads".

Lust said:


Hence MAL implemented minimum character count.

Mayuka said:
No, you're missing the point. It just encourages "discussion" as in derailing and chit chat rather than legit discussion.

Kineta said:
People have noted that there are anime and manga titles which are shorter than 15 characters. However, the Recommendations board is not a simple listing board; please take a few seconds to write why you are recommending the user that anime/manga or how it fits with their request. This board is currently a mess of duplicate threads and posts filled with only series titles and no actual discussion, and we'd really like to work towards improving this board in the future.

SnugglyWhuggly said:
Considering several people on this site enjoy "simpler" discussions/threads, why not just create another sub-section for more "general" type of threads, such as "listing" topics, or threads that only require shorter answers than those that ask for a more "in-depth" opinion on something?

I personally do like to see more "serious" discussion threads myself, which is why I was initially in favour of this new rule, but not everyone wants to get into serious discussions/debates every single time they browse the MAL forums (neither do I).

Seems like a better idea to me than just forcing everyone to comply with the character limit when they're just going to add in random characters in order to meet the limit for times when they don't need to add much more than a few words to their post in order to get their point across, or there's simply no real reason/need to drag out something that could just as easily be "explained" concisely with less than 30 characters.

And as others have already mentioned, there isn't really any say in it for us. The mods just implemented this limitation out of the blue without even informing the community it would be implemented beforehand.
The disconnect between the mods and the rest of MAL's community needs to stop.

Martin said:
Agreed with all of the above. Why is there absolutely no consensus between the staff and the rest of the community?
Will you at least beta test your decisions before releasing it as a whole to the entire community?

I think a 10-5-1 character limit works better than 30-15-1.

galimx said:

Well, yeah. 30 characters isnt that much anyway. I mean if you cant get together a 30 character question with counting blank spaces, then I dunno. An elementary school kid could do that. Its like 5 or 6 words. People are just used to much to shitposting and writing only yes/no on this forum. And when you need to write like 5 or 6 words, then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS. Jesus.

Its like this simple:

galimx said:


How is this a pointless conversation if the topic title is about postcards for online or IRL friends, for example ? Its not a random topic, its the point of the topic.
The problem here inherently lies with the question and not the answer. Simple listing or answer like yes/no. Moderators mostly lock topics like that, where people only list things, its the rule of MAL. If someone makes a topic with the question "Do you make post cards for online or IRL friends?" then people will just write yes, no, both, online, irl... This kind of things dont really support discussion and it seems that people on MAL dont have it in their nature to make something out of this question, anyway.

AllenVonStein said:
What u mean by 30 characters ?

Nice quick Edit option.

Paulo27 said:
The problem is on the desktop version of the site on mobile, not my mobile or his mobile, all of them from what I have tested.
Using mobile for me never broke quotation marks or whatever but when using quick edit it does.

Kineta said:
From testing with a few other people on mobile, it seems that:
- Quote on the mobile version has encoding problems.
- Quote on the Desktop version (on mobile) is fine.
- Quick Edit on the Desktop version (on mobile) is fine.

Are you having problems with all of your posts using Quick Edit or only a few? A few mods have tested Android's browser and Chrome without issue.

SnugglyWhuggly said:
Considering several people on this site enjoy "simpler" discussions/threads, why not just create another sub-section for more "general" type of threads, such as "listing" topics, or threads that only require shorter answers than those that ask for a more "in-depth" opinion on something?

I personally do like to see more "serious" discussion threads myself, which is why I was initially in favour of this new rule, but not everyone wants to get into serious discussions/debates every single time they browse the MAL forums (neither do I).

Seems like a better idea to me than just forcing everyone to comply with the character limit when they're just going to add in random characters in order to meet the limit for times when they don't need to add much more than a few words to their post in order to get their point across, or there's simply no real reason/need to drag out something that could just as easily be "explained" concisely with less than 30 characters.

And as others have already mentioned, there isn't really any say in it for us. The mods just implemented this limitation out of the blue without even informing the community it would be implemented beforehand.
The disconnect between the mods and the rest of MAL's community needs to stop.

Kineta said:

Finally, please do not fill your posts with nonsense to meet the minimum character limit. This includes writing how you are typing more to meet the limit, swearing at the moderators, or filling your posts with nonsense. If you do, please be prepared for your post to be removed without notice and/or for you to receive a warning or ban for spam.

-Elevated- said:
I still facepalm at this decision.

Nightwing said:

Can't wait for them to retract if once, they realized how much extra modding will be needed

Paulo27 said:
Anyways, everything is working fine for me (desktop version on mobile).

Go said:
Shittiest rule ever, doesn't make sense, reasons are invalid as they can be bypassed.

OneGuy said:
Why not create a SPAM button (like the spoiler button) that automatically forces short posts out of view by default? If people want to read the 'short post' they will have to click the button (knowing full well it's most likely junk). Result, a compromise, no censorship, and people have an option to read or not. I'm sure once members start seeing their posts appear as SPAM buttons, they may try a little harder to write something worthwhile.

Laniaka said:
People who make threads in the recommendations board do not do so because they want to have a discussion. They want recommendations. And people who post in the recommendations board do so because they want to share their favourite anime and/or because they want to help people.
I'm not saying you can't have discussions in the recommendations board but it's an extra and it's not part of the essence of asking and providing recommendations.

Narmy said:
They don't care what the community wants

Narmy said:
The people who run MAL are extremely elitist

Narmy said:
They never admit when they are wrong

Mayuka said:
There's not much to provide when the asker gives a specific requirement.

"Give me an Anime with lots of fanservice"

User: Anime Title

There's not much to add or explain.................

AnnoKano said:


Threads suggesting a minimum character count for forum posts:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1171619
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1445788
To say nothing of the discussions among moderators assessing the pros and cons of such a rule.

Nightwing said:


You linked two threads, which pooled a total of 46 posts as your proof for discussions? Most of the posts in those threads were against having such a limit.
What you trying to say then? You mods came together, made a decision, and that’s it?

AnnoKano said:


Well, the people who are making recommendations will just have to think of an additional few words to justify what they are saying. Instead of saying:

"Kare Kano"

They will have to say

"If you're looking for a good romantic comedy, I recommend you try Kare Kano. The episode re-caps are a little annoying and the ending is a bit of a mess, but it has some really good characters and a lot of laughs."

If this is stretching the limits of anyone's expression, they need not worry because something a bit more straightforward will also suffice:

"If you're looking for a good romantic comedy, you should try Kare Kano. The main character is really funny."

I think this far more helpful than simply stating a name and will be within the capabilities of all but the laziest of our userbase. But if anyone is troubled by this sudden expectation that you should have to justify your opinions, just remember the following 36 character phrase which will satisfy the minimum character requirements all by itself:

"It's my favourite anime of all time!"

You're welcome.

mafia_princess said:
How about when I want to quote someone and ask them a question? It's supposed to be 30 characters?

Laniaka said:
I'm not saying that it's a big problem to write more than just the title.
I can somewhat accept that as a side effect of this measure people will have to write more in their recommendations.

Laniaka said:
But the way it is presented here is that recommendation posts with just a title are somehow wrong. And that the recommendation board needs to have discussion. And I strongly disagree with those ideas.

Laniaka said:
In some cases it is more helpful to write additional information but in many cases it doesn't really add anything compared to just writing the title.
For example if someone asks for 'a romance manga where the characters get together early on' and I know a title where that happens. Why would it be wrong to just post that title?
The fact that it fits the request is implied in me posting the title and any reviews or information about the plot can be found on its mal page.
If I have something personal to add which is of interest then yes that could make my post even better, but usually I don't.
It seems that according to the staff that means my post is spam and worthless. But I'm not posting a recommendation for the staff. I'm posting it for the OP and most of the time they just want to find new anime/manga that fit their request, not discussion.

Maka said:
Just kind of annoying for specific threads, like The 'Help Identifying This Anime/Character' Thread. Many people submit images without anything else, and many people give answers to where the anime image is from, and more often than not, the responses are not that long. For example, Jayden asked where an image he posted was from, and I had to put periods to answer the user's question. I don't really know who asked for this feature to be implemented, so thanks MAL. (Quick edit feature is much appreciated though)

AnnoKano said:

If you're dissatisfied by the changes that have been made, the solution is simple: take a more active role in the website. If you are so concerned about how the website is run, then try the following:

• Check the suggestions forum regularly, and participate in the discussions there.
  
• Become active on our IRC channel, where you can discuss issues about rules with the moderation team directly, as well as with other members.
  
• Attempt to understand why the moderation team has reached a decision, rather than dismissing it out of hand. Unless you can find a better alternative, accept the need to make compromises.

There are numerous opportunities for members to become involved in the decision making process on MAL, if you haven't taken advantage of them then you only have yourself to blame when we reach a decision that you do not like. We cannot wait around to make sure we have everyone's approval, we need to limit ourselves to those who choose to become involved.

worldeditor11 said:
Even though I am told to discuss this in PM, I will just bite the bullet and risk a ban by stating this publicly. Note, I am not going against the mods with this, just to post one of the problems in passing this rule as acceptable in MAL.

Apparently, my post responding to this question was deleted due to character filling which they count as Spam. I will abide with this if it is concerning one of my shitposts but unfortunately, it is not.



Some of you might know that I replied the questions above with a simple "Yes" and "asdasdadfasd" nonsense to fill the character limit. Acceptable, nothing wrong with the answer except the "Spam" that follows after it. The problem comes when I received a warning for something me, trying to help a fellow user inquiries about the new ruling. Mayuka pointed this out earlier(issues surrounding them) that questions like these require a simple direct answer of yes or no. You can elaborate it even further, but the inherent nature of the question posted suggest a direct, simple and short answer will be the most preferable and suitable. My aim was to answer in a plain and short manner so that the user will not misunderstand what I was trying to convey due to my sentence complexity and tediousness. Nor I want to beat around the bush by providing more words for the sake of character filling.

Now, by passing this warning towards me as something legitimate in MAL as stated in the rules, is it a justifiable action? You decide MAL.

AnnoKano said:


According to my colleagues, you violated the rule more than once. In the first instance we can perhaps attribute it to foolishness, ignorance or an error, but nobody should need to be told the same thing twice.

AnnoKano said:

Anyway, perhaps I can offer you some conciliation: moderators can no longer post responses like 'thread moved' anymore. We too will have to exert ourselves to writing out not just that a thread has been moved, but also specify to make sure the character limit is met.

AnnoKano said:

It is a heavy burden indeed but we feel it is a worthy sacrifice to improve the forums for everyone.

worldeditor11 said:

As I said, if it was one of the shitposts, I will accept it since clearly, I violated the rules. I have no problem with that. The problem comes when my genuine answer was flagged as Spam as well. Despite my effort in providing a decent reply, it seems that the Staff doesn't view it as such. Unjustifiable punishment is what it is. Furthermore, I proved that the rule have major issues in handling these sort of questions. I believe forum moderators can at least consider what they should do when this situation arises in the future.

Zazie122 said:

Except that there are several active forum members with thousands of posts that do contribute more to the forums than, say, some mods who only sometimes lock/move threads and don't really post themselves.

Zazie122 said:
Lots of the suggestions in said forum are ignored. The mods only listen to .5% of what people say there. And what about the support forum, where they're supposed to fix things, or at the very least pass it on that something on the back end isn't working? Nobody's fixed any of the search issues. Numerous people have complained about the slowness of database changes, and those haven't been addressed. Still not ETA on when new mods will be approved, and recruitment ended what, two months ago? Surely it doesn't take that long to go through applications, since I can hardly imagine quite that many people applied. The last update was at the beginning of December that they'd be announced "shortly". It's almost been a month.

Zazie122 said:
And sure, having the IRC channel is great and all, but why can't we have these discussions on the forums? You yourself said that forums are for discussion, and that's the sort of discussion we should be having. But even in this thread, mods aren't addressing direct complaints. My entire post on the last page was completely ignored, despite bringing up several discussion points and what I thought were legitimate complaints.

Zazie122 said:
The majority of users here disagree with how the staff implements changes and just throws out things without consulting the userbase. This has been brought up several times, but it's always dismissed because apparently we just don't understand what the purpose is or some shit like that. Just because you understand something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

Zazie122 said:
Maybe there's something behind all the complaints almost every time a new feature is introduced and it's not just people bitching for the sake of bitching. Maybe the staff should take a look at how they do things, and realise that people have a problem with it and it's a lot more than "well you're not going to please everyone".

worldeditor11 said:


Yeah, everyone. Sure..... Blatant hypocrisy at its finest. No prior discussion with the community. Utmost secrecy with the Staff internal workings. No wonder we have trust issues between the Staff and the general community.