| Is it not ironic that despite being called "MyAnimeList", listing of any kind is despised on the forums. I can understand wanting to keep the Anime Discussion board about actual discussion, but what's wrong with having a segregated board for threads you would define as "listing threads"? It can be fun arranging a list of characters/anime/whatever that conform to a set of parameters like say, "Most beautiful characters", (which was deleted by who else but Tyrel), and isn't the whole purpose of a forum to have fun? It's not like any of the discussion here is meaningful, it's just a source of entertainment for people who like to talk about anime, and having a separate board for things like this makes for a more flexible, accessible community. Also, if you're going to argue the quality of threads will be poor, let me point to the "Forum Games" board. Are you going to tell me listing threads are bad, but threads like "Post a comment on the above user's profile" and "Count to OVER 9000!!!!" have merit? At least listing threads can produce some sort of discussion or debate on occasion. |
| FYI, listing threads on the FG are not prohibited by the board rules. |
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| There's a difference between Forum Games and an Anime Discussion board. Each board has its own set of rules. If you're gonna argue the Simple listing rule, there's been plenty of threads already made about it in the past 2 years+ |
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Tyrel said: There's a difference between Forum Games and an Anime Discussion board. Each board has its own set of rules. If you're gonna argue the Simple listing rule, there's been plenty of threads already made about it in the past 2 years+ I have said it like a million times lately, but if that's the case we need an "Anime talk" subforum that covers the hole that is left between these two. Because "Anime thought of the day" for instance is not a debate thread, but much less it is a game thread. Slightly related, I remember being kind of shocked during my first months in here, because a thread about sharing photos of your pets was moved from General Discussion to Forum Games. It was the first time I saw this type of thread being treated as spam/games, and to me it clearly wasn't. It was a thread about talk and interaction among users that didn't cover the two main categories that MAL has defined. It wass not a discussion and it was not a game. And seeing how that thread went in Forum Games -it was basically buried by other, more fitting and fast-paced threads in just a couple of days- I'd say there is an issue and MAL could benefit from defining a middle ground in cases like this. |
jal90May 31, 2015 1:35 PM
| Most forums on the interwebs discourage simple reply or listing threads anyway. It sucks but what can you do. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
Protaku94 said: Most forums on the interwebs discourage simple reply or listing threads anyway. It sucks but what can you do. MAL is the only forum I've seen that has a listing thread rule. |
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Protaku94 said: Most forums on the interwebs discourage simple reply or listing threads anyway. It sucks but what can you do. Work with the mods to find a middle ground that suits both parties. I don't care for the majority of listing threads and I'm glad they get locked quickly, however, I notice a small minority of threads get locked/deleted because they break the rules - even when they have some quality and worthwhile posts inside them. Some of the strangest threads can bring about the most interesting conversations, and I feel like the mods are too quick to lock these type of threads. Also, the fact that threads can get locked because they "encourage" flaming is annoying to me - they should be picking out the certain individuals contributing to the flame wars instead of throwing a whole blanket over the thread. If the Fate/Stay threads can stay open - why can't the ones in AD have a chance? |
FloatsBoats said: Also, the fact that threads can get locked because they "encourage" flaming is annoying to me - they should be picking out the certain individuals contributing to the flame wars instead of throwing a whole blanket over the thread. If the Fate/Stay threads can stay open - why can't the ones in AD have a chance? This, this and this. Makes me wonder if the moderators have 0 trust in their own userbase to have a thoughtful, productive discussion over something controversial? As for listing threads, if you don't care for them, don't click. I'm not saying they should be on the Anime Discussion Board, but if we have a Forum Games board with trash threads like "You can only save 1 of the 3 users above you!", then why can't we have a board dedicated to threads like "Most beautiful anime character" or "Cheesiest Anime Opening"? |
| http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1342143 JD2411 said: Also, we don't have a shounen thread any more, it's a big 3 thread. although I made a post in the suggestions board explaining why it should be reverted months ago and never got a response The mods are completely ignoring how, hypocritical, contradictive, and fundamentally wrong that thread is.. Deleting manga discussion, is literally the only moderation it gets. Good thing, it's at least inactive most of the time. |
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Zergneedsfood said: I think there is a "hole" but just personally I don't talk that much, so my whole point is that if all we're doing is making a different subforum, I feel like it'll have at most like 4/5 threads. But threads get locked all the time for being "listing threads". Considering how many listing threads still get made, + the fact that there would be a lot more in a sub-board where the rules encourage them rather than prohibit, I could easily see a consistent level of activity. There's an infinite number of variables you can make a list out of. Also, the MAL moderators have a pretty broad definition of the term "listing thread", because a thread called "Most beautiful anime character" got locked the other day. Wouldn't mind the /a/ structure either, but not sure it would work as well because this site doesn't have a catalog feature. |
| Another thread there's nothing really wrong with, but "technically" conflicts with the rules: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1389752 What's wrong with comparing anime? Don't say it's because flame wars start, because there are plenty of non-locked threads with flame wars in them. Threads don't cause flame wars, out-of-control users do, and it's up to the moderators to ensure they behave. |
| Chill out You're being overthinking dude |
| WEABOO SCIENTIST |
nopainnolife said: Chill out You're being overthinking dude Right, because you obviously have a perfect view to what goes on in my head, and you're somehow able to decipher from my perfectly fair questions that I'm not "chill". Mod Edit: Removed baiting |
TyrelJun 2, 2015 5:30 PM
| Op i agree with you. I support you. |
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| its theyre site = theyre rules |
 Hi |
vodall said: Comparing anime isn't really a discussion; it only leads to people getting mad at each other for having different opinions. If mods took action on every user that got upset over a difference in opinion, 95% of this site's userbase would be gone in an instant. It is much better (and easier) to prevent toxicity completely than to nurture it. Nope, it most certainly is a discussion, it can be debated sensibly, and the thread I specified had no "mad" in it whatsoever. Unless you have 0 respect for the entire userbase's intelligence, and 0 faith in them to have an intelligent discussion, there's no reason why we couldn't have a subboard for threads like this. Aeldrian said: its theyre site = theyre rules Unfortunately, it's posts like these that really make me question the intelligence of the userbase. What board do you think you're on, champ? |
| I agree with this. There's really no reason not to have a forum dedicated to listing threads, since clearly people have a lot of demand for such threads from all the locking. This would also reduce the amount of listing threads created since people would hop on the ongoing listing threads. |
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Narmy said: Protaku94 said: Most forums on the interwebs discourage simple reply or listing threads anyway. It sucks but what can you do. MAL is the only forum I've seen that has a listing thread rule. yep i have been on a lot of forums too and MAL is the only forum i know that bans listing threads so i agree with this suggestion |
| Well I wouldn't mind a Sub-board for it in each board but of course this seems a bit of a unpopular idea. But would get rid of the rule (listing rule) and would make a new rule to only make listing threads within the sub-board. With the new Development team this is now possible or rather more possible. They allow List-discussion threads, and I've read the "board rules: simple listing" thread at least twice and its clearly trying to make a type of exception for the listing rule thus: list discussions are allowed if done right. The forums restrictive? of course they are, ever since 2012 when the spam board was gone I saw a huge amount of Restricting and its only getting more strict. The cure would be to bring back spam board or make a shit load of sub-boards, or get rid of some rules. These seem hard to even consider. As for the Big 3 Discussion, it only shows the exceptions Mods make to the rules and hints on favoritism or at least sympathy. Zergneedsfood said: Chatting happens all the time, which is what Jal90 is hinting at, and I agree that Chatting does happen a lot and its only going to increase.jal90 said: I mean....just personally I don't feel like I really have much to talk about to begin with, so maybe it's just a function of me not having much I want to say, but I don't feel like there's really a "hole" in AD right now. I have said it like a million times lately, but if that's the case we need an "Anime talk" subforum that covers the hole that is left between these two. Because "Anime thought of the day" for instance is not a debate thread, but much less it is a game thread. And the problem with something like an "Anime Talk" subforum is I feel like it'd literally just be one or two threads. Like how many good "listing" or general discussion threads can there possibly be? You'd basically be making an entire subforum for the purpose of accommodating like....at most less than 5/6 ideas. And yes Having a sub-board is unpopular because its MORE hidden than a usual board so it would feel like it would less likely be noticed or used. So now we are left to wanting the rules gone or even less restricted. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
Psajdak said: The point of the rule was to heighten the possibility of making the discussions more higher Quality And sure they can end up good or bad, but that's not the point.One question - even if discussions are valued on MAL, was there ever even when something that was actually ever discussed, and brought to a conclusion? All I ever see, or remember is that these discussions, or whatever they are called only go infinitely in circles, and are only about who's dad is stronger, usually ending up in insults. That being said, I support listing threads, and don't see them, even if they are just that, as less important than discussions, if you can call them like that. |
Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
Psajdak said: Yeah I Also see this, they debate and don't want to accept each others views or something. But usually it does end with each side not agreeing, and One user just doesn't respond and abandons the thread and moves on to another discussion. I think that's exactly how things are supposed to be, since those who read them can choose a side they do agree with and they can decide the conclusion for themselves.IMO, point of discussions is that they eventually get concluded, and that people more or less agree, or at least agree to disagree about certain subject, or subjects. I'm here on MAL for a while now, and quite frankly I don't recall even one discussion that isn't continued on, and on pointlessly, with each side trying to prove how they are right, and how others are wrong. |
Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
Psajdak said: IMO, point of discussions is that they eventually get concluded, and that people more or less agree, or at least agree to disagree about certain subject, or subjects. I'm here on MAL for a while now, and quite frankly I don't recall even one discussion that isn't continued on, and on pointlessly, with each side trying to prove how they are right, and how others are wrong. Then you haven't seen enough, because there's plenty of them. TripleSRank and Zergneedsfood had one about Katanagatari a couple weeks ago, for instance. Anyway the point of debating and discussing is not reaching an agreement, it is to confront and explain viewpoints. People don't debate with the purpose of agreeing, they do with the purpose of understanding the other side while trying to clarify theirs in a clear and understandable way. It's an exercise of mutual communication more than anything. And if a consensus stems from that, then it will be for the better. However if it ends in an "agree to disagree" form it's not necessarily a waste of time. |
jal90Jun 3, 2015 5:10 AM
| Sorry MAL is the fun police. No fun zone on MAL. |
| I support this. |
| Yes i agree, often threads that start off as listing naturally grow into discussion, but they get locked too early, obviously they should be locked if its just 20 pages of non stop listing. But yes this rule is too restrictive. |
| I really do not see the harm a listing thread could do to the community. Banning it is just arrogance without reasoning. |
| I love my gurlz |
| this thread is a listing thread what? Think I'm bullshitting? Look, I'm post #36 in a list of posts in this thread. |
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j0x said: Narmy said: MAL is the only forum I've seen that has a listing thread rule. yep i have been on a lot of forums too and MAL is the only forum i know that bans listing threads so i agree with this suggestion Like Protaku said most forums discourage simple listing, or simple posting. The forums that do not do it are either so small that they're happy about any kind of posting, or the users don't answer a simple listing OP with a simple listing post. If the users do the later there is no need for the rule. If the topic at hand is discussion-worthy the moderators will ask the OP to change their opening post, and remove the simple listing posts so others aren't encouraged to do the same. Another thing is, in smaller forums it is easier to find these simple listing threads. Thus you don't have the users making the 20th "What's your favorite anime?" thread. Duplicate threads is something nearly every forum doesn't allow. So the rule is a necessity due to the influx, and size, of the forums. |
_Ghost_ said: j0x said: yep i have been on a lot of forums too and MAL is the only forum i know that bans listing threads so i agree with this suggestion Like Protaku said most forums discourage simple listing, or simple posting. The forums that do not do it are either so small that they're happy about any kind of posting, or the users don't answer a simple listing OP with a simple listing post. If the users do the later there is no need for the rule. If the topic at hand is discussion-worthy the moderators will ask the OP to change their opening post, and remove the simple listing posts so others aren't encouraged to do the same. Another thing is, in smaller forums it is easier to find these simple listing threads. Thus you don't have the users making the 20th "What's your favorite anime?" thread. Duplicate threads is something nearly every forum doesn't allow. So the rule is a necessity due to the influx, and size, of the forums. i can name a large forum right now that has 3 million plus members but allow listing threads, its Warez-BB  here are examples of the threads on that forum just now  |
_Ghost_ said: j0x said: yep i have been on a lot of forums too and MAL is the only forum i know that bans listing threads so i agree with this suggestion Like Protaku said most forums discourage simple listing, or simple posting. The forums that do not do it are either so small that they're happy about any kind of posting, or the users don't answer a simple listing OP with a simple listing post. I don't want to sound like a contrarian here, but this is not true, not at all. How did you come to this conclusion? How many forums do you know that disallow "What is your favorite anime girl/boy/pet/hair color/whatever?", "(Rate the) Last thing you watched", "Anime thought of the day", "Most overrated/underrated anime", "Funniest anime joke" and so on? Simple listing and simple posting is not only allowed. It is encouraged. These are the threads that generate traffic and user interaction for the most part. It's just MAL the one that tried to embrace the term "discussion" literally. _Ghost_ said: If the users do the later there is no need for the rule. If the topic at hand is discussion-worthy the moderators will ask the OP to change their opening post, and remove the simple listing posts so others aren't encouraged to do the same. Anything is discussion worthy, but what the MAL staff should understand, I think, is that this does not happen through threads, it happens through posts, user interaction. It's no use if one makes a comprehensive and thoughtful OP and everybody agrees or nobody cares to contradict the points. There is no discussion there. However there is discussion if in a thread about the last anime you watched people share and confront their impressions about a particular show. _Ghost_ said: Another thing is, in smaller forums it is easier to find these simple listing threads. Thus you don't have the users making the 20th "What's your favorite anime?" thread. Duplicate threads is something nearly every forum doesn't allow. That's another different matter and I think creating an index for the most common threads would be useful. The search engine is fine but the titles are sometimes misleading or difficult to find. _Ghost_ said: So the rule is a necessity due to the influx, and size, of the forums. How is locking threads that generate traffic and user interaction beneficial to the structure of the forums? Is it because they are more difficult to moderate, or MAL's database is actually overloaded and can't simply deal with it? |
_Ghost_ said: Like Protaku said most forums discourage simple listing, or simple posting. The forums that do not do it are either so small that they're happy about any kind of posting, or the users don't answer a simple listing OP with a simple listing post. Do you have some examples of big forums that do that? As far as I'm aware it's only MAL that does. |
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Narmy said: _Ghost_ said: Like Protaku said most forums discourage simple listing, or simple posting. The forums that do not do it are either so small that they're happy about any kind of posting, or the users don't answer a simple listing OP with a simple listing post. Do you have some examples of big forums that do that? As far as I'm aware it's only MAL that does. im curious about that as well, im not a member of gaming forums but from what i know they do not ban listing threads as well especially big gaming forums just now i look at the anime subforum of IGN which has 1 million+ members and i see listing threads like this http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/whats-your-favorite-anime.454495506/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/%E2%99%AA%E2%99%ABrate-the-anime-op%E2%99%AB%E2%99%AA.454366611/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-new-anime-babes-thread.452692941/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/which-6-anime-characters-would-you-date.454447454/ |
j0x said: Narmy said: Do you have some examples of big forums that do that? As far as I'm aware it's only MAL that does. im curious about that as well, im not a member of gaming forums but from what i know they do not ban listing threads as well especially big gaming forums just now i look at the anime subforum of IGN which has 1 million+ members and i see listing threads like this http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/whats-your-favorite-anime.454495506/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/%E2%99%AA%E2%99%ABrate-the-anime-op%E2%99%AB%E2%99%AA.454366611/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-new-anime-babes-thread.452692941/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/which-6-anime-characters-would-you-date.454447454/ Compared to MAL, that anime board is way less active after looking through those threads and the amount of replies in a given period. And I'm only taking the into account for the people who post on it, not the views. |
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Tyrel said: j0x said: im curious about that as well, im not a member of gaming forums but from what i know they do not ban listing threads as well especially big gaming forums just now i look at the anime subforum of IGN which has 1 million+ members and i see listing threads like this http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/whats-your-favorite-anime.454495506/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/%E2%99%AA%E2%99%ABrate-the-anime-op%E2%99%AB%E2%99%AA.454366611/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-new-anime-babes-thread.452692941/ http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/which-6-anime-characters-would-you-date.454447454/ Compared to MAL, that anime board is way less active after looking through those threads and the amount of replies in a given period. And I'm only taking the into account for the people who post on it, not the views. so MAL moderation likes to limit or lessen forum activity? if so just why? there are plenty of forum moderators already and Xinil said during the maintenance that MAL got new servers so whats the problem of increasing more the forum activity? |
j0x said: so MAL moderation likes to limit or lessen forum activity? if so just why? there are plenty of forum moderators already and Xinil said during the maintenance that MAL got new servers so whats the problem of increasing more the forum activity? I think you misunderstood Ty-chan. He was just saying that IGN has lesser activity. I think that simple listing doesn't bring much activity, mainly because: simple listing -> not much to discuss -> nothing to return for after you get bored, whilst while having a discussion, you'll always be curious to see what other people commented and if they have any opinions on your thoughts. I don't exactly see any first-hand problem with having some sort of board for listing and simple listing to be honest, but it might detrimental to the activity of the other boards - or vice versa. Mostly, I don't think it's going to change anything. |
| I agree with OP. I don't see anything wrong with listing or comparison. Most of the discussions in this site are just one line answers that do not promote any discussion. The only valid reason I can think of to prevent listing/comparison threads is that they may produce so much activity that they slow down the site and I doubt that will happen. Edit: Also if you think that listing/comparison threads will die out after some time you could just delete them after 30 days of inactivity or something. It is possible (even easy) to automate this and seeing that MAL has a supposedly capable tech team I don't see why it can't be implemented. |
omeg4Jun 19, 2015 12:13 AM
koleare said: I think you misunderstood Ty-chan. He was just saying that IGN has lesser activity. ye but isnt that implying MAL has more forum activity than IGN? so why more forum activity on MAL is a problem if we have enough forum moderators and new servers ready to accommodate more activity? koleare said: I think that simple listing doesn't bring much activity, mainly because: simple listing -> not much to discuss -> nothing to return for after you get bored, whilst while having a discussion, you'll always be curious to see what other people commented and if they have any opinions on your thoughts. I don't exactly see any first-hand problem with having some sort of board for listing and simple listing to be honest, but it might detrimental to the activity of the other boards - or vice versa. Mostly, I don't think it's going to change anything. im personally against making a dedicated sub forum for listing threads we have enough sub forums already just allow listing threads on all forums |
j0x said: I didn't go into research mode, but I think it just has lesser activity on those threads (since... it's IGN and all?). The way I see it, listing threads would either "take" activity from the more important discussion threads, or they wouldn't have much at all.koleare said: I think you misunderstood Ty-chan. He was just saying that IGN has lesser activity. ye but isnt that implying MAL has more forum activity than IGN? so why more forum activity on MAL is a problem if we have enough forum moderators and new servers ready to accommodate more activity? |
| What does having better/new servers and or enough forum moderators have to do with allowing simple listing threads? Just because one site with less activity has simple listing threads does not mean that a site with more activity has to allow simple listing threads. Having enough forum moderators + better servers doesn't mean we're going to allow such threads. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1342143 |
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| @tyrel- could you please tell me why? As I mentioned before it should be easy to clean up the threads if they die by just making a few modifications to the way the threads are stored in the db. you could just drop the entry them after a specified time by adding a column for last modified date. I do not know how the database is maintained but if it should be easy to implement an automatic delete feature for listing threads (that may die out due to inactivity). If this is difficult to implement because of how you manage your database then I understand. |
omeg4 said: I know nothing about how the DB works. I have never gone into that depth of a talk. Such things would need to be answered by Luna, Kineta, etc. I linked something in my post which was made a few months back on the whole Simple Listing thing. Feel free to read it.@tyrel- could you please tell me why? As I mentioned before it should be easy to clean up the threads if they die by just making a few modifications to the way the threads are stored in the db. you could just drop the entry them after a specified time by adding a column for last modified date. I do not know how the database is maintained but if it should be easy to implement an automatic delete feature for listing threads (that may die out due to inactivity). If this is difficult to implement because of how you manage your database then I understand. |
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Tyrel said: I know nothing about how the DB works. I have never gone into that depth of a talk. Such things would need to be answered by Luna, Kineta, etc. I linked something in my post which was made a few months back on the whole Simple Listing thing. Feel free to read it. From my understanding of that post it is probably because you believe simple listing threads might die out due to lack of activity/discussion and since a db administrator posted it I think it would be difficult to implement an automated deletion feature due to the way the database system is maintained as they probably would have considered it. If that is the case I understand why you wouldn't want these type of threads. It sucks though. |
omeg4 said: In general, Simple Listings do not provide discussion. There are some users who'll take time with their posts and then there're other users who will literally post one thing and peace out. The anime discussion board was made to discuss and talk about anime in general. I highly doubt it was made so that users could just walk in and post a one worded type response.Tyrel said: I know nothing about how the DB works. I have never gone into that depth of a talk. Such things would need to be answered by Luna, Kineta, etc. I linked something in my post which was made a few months back on the whole Simple Listing thing. Feel free to read it. From my understanding of that post it is probably because you believe simple listing threads might die out due to lack of activity/discussion and since a db administrator posted it I think it would be difficult to implement an automated deletion feature due to the way the database system is maintained as they probably would have considered it. If that is the case I understand why you wouldn't want these type of threads. It sucks though. There's no fear of simple listing threads "dying" out. It's the fact of people actually taking time to discuss instead of just making it a spam thread with nothing going for it. I think this post says it better than me. |
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